aubfaninga 16 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 aufaninga .....I guess I didn't make myself clear. They were destroyed for sinful/unnatural sexual practices which is the topic of the thread I thought. Not trying to start a theological discussion. You quoted scripture so I was more a curiosity question. Sorry PT. Your question went over my head because I don't get hung up on just their sexual conduct. They had many problems including fear, hate, and general mistrust for anything outside their accepted norm. The hebrew words go a little deeper into the condition of these people. The New Testament just briefly uses them as an illustration. The book of Jude and 2 Timothy 3 gives a more accurate depiction of their society. They were not just destroyed for sexual acts. These were some bad people.Just imagine the worst of America in a concentrated population. Motivated by fear of everything and everyone who have completely lost sight of any moral compass or compassion toward others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 We were all born into a world ruled by good and evil because of Adam's choice. In this present world, there is no distinction between good and evil, everything is as filthy rags. When we begin to realize this, the sin issue becomes abundantly clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 aufaninga......as I said I'm not a theologian or a Bible scholar, just an ordinary layman. But unnatuaral sex must have been a prominent sin in Sodom since the word sodomy comes from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,431 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 While i agree in free will over-riding for some things, i do not think that is true except for small issues. Look, if we all just used our free will PROPERLY, we would all overcome ALL SINS and therefore we would not need forgiveness nor a Savior. We would all just chose to not sin. I dont know much, but i know the human condition, we are all flawed and we all screw up regularly. I am as screwed up as anyone and i freely admit it. I am also saved, educated, and have a decent IQ. But i would never state openly that i have, or could, overcome all sin by simply applying my free will to chose. That is not going to hunt. That is why there is confession, repentance, and prayer.Do you even believe he can heal blindness or raise the dead? Anything you ask in Yeshua's name and he will do. He will even send the holy spirit. Denial and doubt do not fit in my faith. I believe that Yeshua is willing and more than capable of moving mountains! Have a blessed day DKW and have a little faith in the healing power of Jesus. YOU werent talking about confession, repentance, and prayer. I was. You stated that by simple Free Will, you had made the "choice" to not sin. You said it as an indictment of Genetics AND Environment. That YOU had overcome both by simple Free Will Choice. You implied that everyone could/should do the same and just deny the Genetics AND Environment and just make the proper Free Will Choice. I simply stated that if it were that easy, we would all do it and we would not need Grace and a Savior. I have not limited the power of Christ at all in this. YOU have greatly over-exaggerated YOUR power to make Free Will Choices as easily as can be and ignoring the millenia of pain etc these people have suffered in trying to come to terms with their own private realities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubfaninga 16 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 While i agree in free will over-riding for some things, i do not think that is true except for small issues. Look, if we all just used our free will PROPERLY, we would all overcome ALL SINS and therefore we would not need forgiveness nor a Savior. We would all just chose to not sin. I dont know much, but i know the human condition, we are all flawed and we all screw up regularly. I am as screwed up as anyone and i freely admit it. I am also saved, educated, and have a decent IQ. But i would never state openly that i have, or could, overcome all sin by simply applying my free will to chose. That is not going to hunt. That is why there is confession, repentance, and prayer.Do you even believe he can heal blindness or raise the dead? Anything you ask in Yeshua's name and he will do. He will even send the holy spirit. Denial and doubt do not fit in my faith. I believe that Yeshua is willing and more than capable of moving mountains! Have a blessed day DKW and have a little faith in the healing power of Jesus. YOU werent talking about confession, repentance, and prayer. I was. You stated that by simple Free Will, you had made the "choice" to not sin. You said it as an indictment of Genetics AND Environment. That YOU had overcome both by simple Free Will Choice. You implied that everyone could/should do the same and just deny the Genetics AND Environment and just make the proper Free Will Choice. I simply stated that if it were that easy, we would all do it and we would not need Grace and a Savior. I have not limited the power of Christ at all in this. YOU have greatly over-exaggerated YOUR power to make Free Will Choices as easily as can be and ignoring the millenia of pain etc these people have suffered in trying to come to terms with their own private realities. Every person on this planet makes a choice to who they sleep with. (Rape aside) I am not even trying to say either is right or wrong. I am saying that we have a choice in who we choose as our partner. I am attracted to woman but I have chosen to only have one partner. Some choose to have many. Some choose to have none. Whether it be from a creator or thru evolution I have something inside me that can wrestle with my instincts. We have laws that work off this simple principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubfaninga 16 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 aufaninga......as I said I'm not a theologian or a Bible scholar, just an ordinary layman. But unnatuaral sex must have been a prominent sin in Sodom since the word sodomy comes from there. The word "sodomy" has nothing to do with the biblical city. The hebrew word written has a different understanding.I can accept that you are not a scholar but a simple google search into the hebrew word for sodom will show that I am not just being argumentative. In 1611 a translation was written using a language that was an offshoot from Germanic languages. We call it old English now. This translation used a Latin translation that was translated from a Greek translation that was translated from a Babylonian version of Hebrew that was translated from the ancient language of Hebrew. I know this may not interest you but it is truth none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 aufaninga......as I said I'm not a theologian or a Bible scholar, just an ordinary layman. But unnatuaral sex must have been a prominent sin in Sodom since the word sodomy comes from there. The word "sodomy" has nothing to do with the biblical city. The hebrew word written has a different understanding.I can accept that you are not a scholar but a simple google search into the hebrew word for sodom will show that I am not just being argumentative. In 1611 a translation was written using a language that was an offshoot from Germanic languages. We call it old English now. This translation used a Latin translation that was translated from a Greek translation that was translated from a Babylonian version of Hebrew that was translated from the ancient language of Hebrew. I know this may not interest you but it is truth none the less. hell of a coincidence anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 im not going to lie. I did not read the previous 12 pages but it seems this thread has devolved into a debate of scripture. Is the prevailing consensus among libs that Carson is unqualified to be President since he thinks homosexuality is a matter of choice? If so, why would harboring that conviction disqualify a person for the job? I really dont see why it would even matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,393 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 im not going to lie. I did not read the previous 12 pages but it seems this thread has devolved into a debate of scripture. Is the prevailing consensus among libs that Carson is unqualified to be President since he thinks homosexuality is a matter of choice? If so, why would harboring that conviction disqualify a person for the job? I really dont see why it would even matter. You may have the right to ask questions that were addressed in a thread you didn't bother to read, just don't expect anyone to review them just for you. :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,431 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 im not going to lie. I did not read the previous 12 pages but it seems this thread has devolved into a debate of scripture. Is the prevailing consensus among libs that Carson is unqualified to be President since he thinks homosexuality is a matter of choice? If so, why would harboring that conviction disqualify a person for the job? I really dont see why it would even matter. I may or may not fit the definition of a lib, but I dont think he is qualified.I honestly think if you looked at resumes only, Biden is very qualified, but he would make a lousy POTUS. Palin had more executive experience than Obama in 2008. She actually looked MARGINALLY better on paper looking at experience. Bush43, Carter, Obama had experience but, IMHO, have been mediocre to very poor presidents. So whom do you choose? The experienced guy that fails or the inexperienced guy that succeeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 im not going to lie. I did not read the previous 12 pages but it seems this thread has devolved into a debate of scripture. Is the prevailing consensus among libs that Carson is unqualified to be President since he thinks homosexuality is a matter of choice? If so, why would harboring that conviction disqualify a person for the job? I really dont see why it would even matter. I may or may not fit the definition of a lib, but I dont think he is qualified.I honestly think if you looked at resumes only, Biden is very qualified, but he would make a lousy POTUS. Palin had more executive experience than Obama in 2008. She actually looked MARGINALLY better on paper looking at experience. Bush43, Carter, Obama had experience but, IMHO, have been mediocre to very poor presidents. So whom do you choose? The experienced guy that fails or the inexperienced guy that succeeds? Oh, I dont think he's qualified either but it wouldn't be the 1st time an unqualified candidate won the election. IMO we have the most unqualified guy sitting the WH that I can ever remember and that goes back to watching Ike on the news reels. I also dont believe whatever a candidate thinks about homosexuality is a factor that either qualifies or disqualifies them. Thats all Im saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 71 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Growing up, I chose neither my genes nor my environment. So distinguishing between genes and environment is irrelevant to determine whether something was a choice. I think I understand what you are getting at, but I can't help but feel there's no connection between those two sentences are than both are true. The point of contention is whether genes determine homosexuality. If we assume they don't, it means environment determines homosexuality. Regardless of which of the two is responsible for homosexuality, it was never a choice. That's what I thought you meant. But not to be picky, "nature and nurture" aren't mutually exclusive. Right. But if we assume there is no genetic component, it still wasn't a choice. So whether there is a genetic cause of homosexuality is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,393 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Growing up, I chose neither my genes nor my environment. So distinguishing between genes and environment is irrelevant to determine whether something was a choice. I think I understand what you are getting at, but I can't help but feel there's no connection between those two sentences are than both are true. The point of contention is whether genes determine homosexuality. If we assume they don't, it means environment determines homosexuality. Regardless of which of the two is responsible for homosexuality, it was never a choice. That's what I thought you meant. But not to be picky, "nature and nurture" aren't mutually exclusive. Right. But if we assume there is no genetic component, it still wasn't a choice. So whether there is a genetic cause of homosexuality is irrelevant. And we're back to the "is there really such a thing as choice?" question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 It doesn't matter if it's a choice, environmental, or "built in". Everything is broken in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubfaninga 16 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It doesn't matter if it's a choice, environmental, or "built in". Everything is broken in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 What's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubfaninga 16 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 What's the problem? Problem that we should not discuss in this thread. I disagree that everything in this world is broken. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It pertains to the thread content, why shouldn't it be discussed here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubfaninga 16 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It pertains to the thread content, why shouldn't it be discussed here? I will try to keep it in the guardrails of this subject then.Do you think "sex" is broken? I think that both atheists and religious alike would agree, outside this debate, that sex is perfectly fine if you used properly. Knowing that your religious I don't see how you could say that "sex" is broken. God sanctified it and made it holy with his WORD. I can't see a group of atheist homosexuals protesting to let a chronic pedaphile go free just because their genetics or childhood gave them a bad hand in life. I can't see you doing the same for a serial killer either. Choice is what governs any society built on the foundation of law. To say otherwise would leave a lawless society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Since you were saved, have you had any lustful thoughts about another woman? Have you been angry at someone? Have you overeaten? Have you dealt with pride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Hopefully Titan will let my point be made before swooping in here and deleting my posts because it is relevant to this thread topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubfaninga 16 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Since you were saved, have you had any lustful thoughts about another woman? Have you been angry at someone? Have you overeaten? Have you dealt with pride? All of the above and on numerous occasions but my Fathers love is perfect and his way of dealing with said things are perfect. They are not broken! I have admitted MY error, confessed, and constantly pray for guidance and help. BUT attraction is not broken. Emotions are not broken. Eating is not broken. Self worth is not broken. I can honestly say that I have no lustfull thoughts for women outside of my wife. My eating, smoking, and alcohol abuse problems no longer control me. At this time. My anger and pride still get the best of me at times but not nearly as much as they once did. Would you mind praying for me in these areas? Surely you don't teach prayer is broken and vain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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