Beware Crossing the Empereor

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Hobby Lobby standing up to the Emperor wannabee didn't sit to well.

Disgusting to see stuff like this while the IRS and Lois Lerner get a free pass.

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/10/29/obama-nemesis-hobby-lobby-probed-for-allegedly-buying-black-market-biblical.html?intcmp=hplnws

[AURaptor 1,125]

So, trying to preserve priceless artifacts which would be atomized by the Islamic State if not sold on the black market is considered by Obama and his regime to be a big no - no ?

Shocker.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

So, trying to preserve priceless artifacts which would be atomized by the Islamic State if not sold on the black market is considered by Obama and his regime to be a big no - no ?

Shocker.

Who would have imagined

[homersapien 11,393]

"American law also criminalizes the receipt, possession, and transport of stolen property."

So I take it you two disagree with this policy?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

"American law also criminalizes the receipt, possession, and transport of stolen property."

So I take it you two disagree with this policy?

I don't but is there real evidence thet did? American law also criminalizes illegal immigration. I assume you agree with this and that the law should be enforced.

[AURaptor 1,125]

American law trumps priceless artifacts. Return them to ISIS, and let them strap some c-4 and a few dozen prisoners in a great big pile, and then blow it all to smithereens.

As long as the law is followed, huh homer ?

( but Hillary gets a pass w/ her e-mail server, I'm sure )

[homersapien 11,393]

American law trumps priceless artifacts. Return them to ISIS, and let them strap some c-4 and a few dozen prisoners in a great big pile, and then blow it all to smithereens.

As long as the law is followed, huh homer ?

( but Hillary gets a pass w/ her e-mail server, I'm sure )

Unlike PT, you didn't answer the question.

[homersapien 11,393]

"American law also criminalizes the receipt, possession, and transport of stolen property."

So I take it you two disagree with this policy?

I don't but is there real evidence thet did? American law also criminalizes illegal immigration. I assume you agree with this and that the law should be enforced.

1. I think the evidence is self-apparent, unless he can provide a credible provenance.

2. Yes - generally speaking - I do.

[AURaptor 1,125]

American law trumps priceless artifacts. Return them to ISIS, and let them strap some c-4 and a few dozen prisoners in a great big pile, and then blow it all to smithereens.

As long as the law is followed, huh homer ?

( but Hillary gets a pass w/ her e-mail server, I'm sure )

Unlike PT, you didn't answer the question.

So f-ing what. Your anal compulsive attitude would have such relics erased from history, all for the sake of " the law " .

[homersapien 11,393]

American law trumps priceless artifacts. Return them to ISIS, and let them strap some c-4 and a few dozen prisoners in a great big pile, and then blow it all to smithereens.

As long as the law is followed, huh homer ?

( but Hillary gets a pass w/ her e-mail server, I'm sure )

Unlike PT, you didn't answer the question.

So f-ing what. Your anal compulsive attitude would have such relics erased from history, all for the sake of " the law " .

So ******* what?

It shows you are here primarily to emote or otherwise vent your stupid assed frustrations and they you cannot sustain a rational argument.

That's ******* what.

[AURaptor 1,125]

By your logic, Rosa Parks should've been tossed in jail and that should've been the end of it, Huh

[homersapien 11,393]

By your logic, Rosa Parks should've been tossed in jail and that should've been the end of it, Huh

No, that was an unjust law, so I would support Rosa. Now, back to the question, do you agree or not?

"American law also criminalizes the receipt, possession, and transport of stolen property."

[AURaptor 1,125]

Not in this case

[quietfan 233]

American law trumps priceless artifacts. Return them to ISIS, and let them strap some c-4 and a few dozen prisoners in a great big pile, and then blow it all to smithereens.

...seems to me that one way to help prevent such atrocities would be to NOT patronize the black market that earns them the money to buy C-4.

(I can't help but feel that attitudes would be completely different if it were, say, a 'liberal' Ivy League school or the CEO of Planned Parenthood doing the exact same business with Mid East smugglers...or if the goods were being smuggled across our southern border by illegals and sold to the 'leftist' Hollywood elite.)

[AURaptor 1,125]

quietfan - here's the reality of the situation. ISIS is systematically destroying artifacts which don't praise Allah, or Islam, which basically means everything. Remember, you can't make objects depicting allah or Mohammed.

My GUESS here is that these artifact which have come on the market are the small % of items smuggled OUT of Syria and Iraq, by folks who aren't ISIS . I may be wrong, but these pieces are being sold at great risk to the seller's lives. Of COURSE they're gonna be on the black market. They're from a war zone. A part of the world where " the law " has been abandoned by every measure.

So, do you just kiss off untold # of priceless antique artwork and relics on the basis of " the law ", or do you take a chance and hope that the $ spent doesn't end up in the hands of iSIS anyways ?

PS - if your hypothetical were the case, I'd still be for it.

[quietfan 233]

quietfan - here's the reality of the situation. ISIS is systematically destroying artifacts which don't praise Allah, or Islam, which basically means everything. Remember, you can't make objects depicting allah or Mohammed.

My GUESS here is that these artifact which have come on the market are the small % of items smuggled OUT of Syria and Iraq, by folks who aren't ISIS . I may be wrong, but these pieces are being sold at great risk to the seller's lives. Of COURSE they're gonna be on the black market. They're from a war zone. A part of the world where " the law " has been abandoned by every measure.

So, do you just kiss off untold # of priceless antique artwork and relics on the basis of " the law ", or do you take a chance and hope that the $ spent doesn't end up in the hands of iSIS anyways ?

PS - if your hypothetical were the case, I'd still be for it.

Like you, I would like to hope that these items were not associated with ISIS nor resulted in any money in their coffers. And like you and most rational humans, I hate to see precious archaeological discoveries vandalized, destroyed, or lost.

However, as the opening FOX link states, ISIS is making huge profits in the illegal antiquities black market. So there's no way to be sure that Steven Green's money won't end up buying a SAM that shoots down an American pilot, purchasing the dynamite that razes another ziggurat, or paying the "bride price" for an ISIS officer's next sex slave. As tightly as ISIS controls everything inside its territory, I think the odds are pretty good that it gets its cut from most antiquities coming out of that territory. But whether ISIS is tied to one particular sale or not, every deal in the black market helps keep that black market going for others. A "guess" or wishful thinking doesn't seem like much basis for taking that risk, IMO.

[AURaptor 1,125]

Whether ISIS benefits from the sale or not, seems moot. ISIS is making millions of $'s a day on black market oil sales, so if saving a 1000 , 2000 + year old , 1 of a kind relic from obliteration , to never seen again is the price we must pay, so be it.

EDIT -

The Islamic State has become so well organized in its looting of antiquities, the terror group has its own black market network that has become one of its leading sources of revenue.

The Islamic State demands a 20 percent cut of any looted objects sold by locals, regulates access to historical sites, in part by issuing permits and licenses and in addition to performing their own looting, also hires contractors to raid sites, Al-Azm said.

So I stand corrected. They are trying to profit and simply aren't smashing anything they can get their hands on. I guess some in ISIS aren't as reckless as others. I guess if it's too big to move, it's too big to sell, so they they just blow it up?

[homersapien 11,393]

American law trumps priceless artifacts. Return them to ISIS, and let them strap some c-4 and a few dozen prisoners in a great big pile, and then blow it all to smithereens.

As long as the law is followed, huh homer ?

( but Hillary gets a pass w/ her e-mail server, I'm sure )

Unlike PT, you didn't answer the question.

So f-ing what. Your anal compulsive attitude would have such relics erased from history, all for the sake of " the law " .

"anal compulsive" ? Is that a psychological term?

[homersapien 11,393]

American law trumps priceless artifacts. Return them to ISIS, and let them strap some c-4 and a few dozen prisoners in a great big pile, and then blow it all to smithereens.

...seems to me that one way to help prevent such atrocities would be to NOT patronize the black market that earns them the money to buy C-4.

(I can't help but feel that attitudes would be completely different if it were, say, a 'liberal' Ivy League school or the CEO of Planned Parenthood doing the exact same business with Mid East smugglers...or if the goods were being smuggled across our southern border by illegals and sold to the 'leftist' Hollywood elite.)

He's pretty transparent all right.

[quietfan 233]

Whether ISIS benefits from the sale or not, seems moot. ISIS is making millions of $'s a day on black market oil sales, so if saving a 1000 , 2000 + year old , 1 of a kind relic from obliteration , to never seen again is the price we must pay, so be it.

EDIT -

The Islamic State has become so well organized in its looting of antiquities, the terror group has its own black market network that has become one of its leading sources of revenue.

The Islamic State demands a 20 percent cut of any looted objects sold by locals, regulates access to historical sites, in part by issuing permits and licenses and in addition to performing their own looting, also hires contractors to raid sites, Al-Azm said.

So I stand corrected. They are trying to profit and simply aren't smashing anything they can get their hands on. I guess some in ISIS aren't as reckless as others. I guess if it's too big to move, it's too big to sell, so they they just blow it up?

I suspect there's an element of truth in your last sentence. I suspect the propaganda/recruiting value of their actions also influences which specific sights/relics they target for destruction.