PayPal bails on North Carolina

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Ahh... so we are back to the real fear. Transgender = sexual predator.

No. And frankly, as much as you know I like you channoc, this is bull****. It's a false flag to try and paint the discussion in a certain way instead of actually addressing the point.

Reread what I said. I did not say anything, nor imply anything, about trans people. I said that sexual predators will look for and take advantage of any loophole or workaround you give them.

Or sexual predator uses transgender as an excuse to come in and assault. I would like an example of such a situation.

I posted a link to 20+ such situations. And this is before these laws opening up the opposite sex's facilities to anyone that proclaims they feel like another sex than their genitalia and chromosomes say they are have become widespread. If you don't think such creeps aren't going to use that excuse to the hilt as it becomes sanctioned for odd looking cross dressers to be in the opposite sex's restrooms and locker rooms, you're crazy.

And as someone stated upthread, this does not actually prevent sexual assaults in the restroom or anywhere else, and we already have laws where that is now against the law.

And laws against murder don't prevent murder. Should we scrap them too?

The point is to not make it easier to get away with or to not make it so that such situations are more likely to occur.

And if this law is about stopping sexual predators, why are we assuming all sexual predators prey on the gender opposite of themselves?

We don't. But not being able to prevent all predatory behavior isn't a reason not to take steps to lessen the likelihood of some.

[aujeff11 6,243]

What a desperation argument. I don't want to be sharing a bathroom with an unknown woman. I don't want her to hear my business and vice versa. It's different when sharing the bathroom with significant others though, obviously.

Humor me) Can you imagine going on a date with some stranger and at the expensive date, y'all walk into the bathroom together and the woman tears up the bathroom from the "closed" stall while you were just trying to wash your hands. That would not only destroy the "mood," I'd be pissed that I still had to pay the bill.

If one of you says "well then just don't go into the bathrooms together," please advise me then how these unisex bathrooms are "not a big deal." It is a big deal.

Sorry not a big deal to me.

Key part of the phrase. And not one I'd want to base policy for everyone else on.

Again, we can just agree to disagree.

In traveling through Europe especially, I rarely encountered gender specific restrooms. The only time I did, it was at major tourist attractions like museums and such with many more international travelers. At local restaurants and things, most restrooms were unisex and shared sinks, etc. I wasn't uncomfortable. I can understand why someone might be, but again, I think it is due more to thinking about our bodies in a sexual way even in non-sexual situations. Quite frankly, bodily functions just don't equate with sexuality for me.

And again, you keep wanting to narrowly focus on restrooms, which I contend would still bother most people and especially women - but it's more than just a restroom with some stalls that's affected here.

What a desperation argument. I don't want to be sharing a bathroom with an unknown woman. I don't want her to hear my business and vice versa. It's different when sharing the bathroom with significant others though, obviously.

Humor me) Can you imagine going on a date with some stranger and at the expensive date, y'all walk into the bathroom together and the woman tears up the bathroom from the "closed" stall while you were just trying to wash your hands. That would not only destroy the "mood," I'd be pissed that I still had to pay the bill.

If one of you says "well then just don't go into the bathrooms together," please advise me then how these unisex bathrooms are "not a big deal." It is a big deal.

Sorry not a big deal to me.

Key part of the phrase. And not one I'd want to base policy for everyone else on.

Well, she is a woman. One of the people you keep claiming to represent.

And I contend that she is atypical in this regard.

On the other things (locker rooms and showers), if there are separate private areas then I'm totally fine. Saunas in most Scandinavian countries are done one gender at a time with strangers, but with friends and family all genders are welcome and everyone is naked. Yes, you could be naked at a young age with your adult neighbors in the sauna. Again, I contend it is our puritan-like culture that inhibits us. Naked bodies do not necessarily equal sex. You don't have to look, and if as long as there is private shower stalls and private bathroom stalls, what's the issue.

Someone who is transgender is likely to want more privacy than someone who is not (contrary to the way these bills lead you to believe).

But who are you to tell people what they should or shouldn't feel comfortable with? It's fine if you and your family and your friends are all more open about such things. But taking your view on things and extrapolating that to the public policy arena is a different thing altogether.

And these bills don't "lead us to believe" anything about transgender people. They correctly assess what we know about sexual predators - they will look for and take advantage of any loophole or workaround you give them to gain access to facilites they don't belong in.

Ahh... so we are back to the real fear. Transgender = sexual predator. Or sexual predator uses transgender as an excuse to come in and assault. I would like an example of such a situation. And as someone stated upthread, this does not actually prevent sexual assaults in the restroom or anywhere else, and we already have laws where that is now against the law. And if this law is about stopping sexual predators, why are we assuming all sexual predators prey on the gender opposite of themselves? Haven't we had enough evidence (issues with Catholic priests and boys for example) to show that it can easily go both ways. Males can prey on males, males can prey on females, females on males, and (while admittedly less common) females on females. I'm not sure separate facilities really solve this situation at all.

"And if this law is about stopping sexual predators, why are we assuming all sexual predators prey on the gender opposite of themselves?"

Nobody suggested this. We cannot make the public completely unaccessible from all sexual predators though no matter how many laws are enforced. However we can use common sense.

Maybe it's just because you're a woman and you never had to go through hormone raging puberty like a teenage boy, and maybe you don't understand the impact that porn has had on a lot of men's lives, but to me, what you are asking the public to do is downright scary. I wouldn't ever let my daughters go swim with some naked neighbor; I've never heard nonchalance of this subjec from anybody like this ever! I understand that you don't feel the sexuality of the matter is a big deal, but I too believe you're atypical of the overall female population in the U.S.

[channonc 466]

Ahh... so we are back to the real fear. Transgender = sexual predator.

No. And frankly, as much as you know I like you channoc, this is bull****. It's a false flag to try and paint the discussion in a certain way instead of actually addressing the point.

Reread what I said. I did not say anything, nor imply anything, about trans people. I said that sexual predators will look for and take advantage of any loophole or workaround you give them.

Or sexual predator uses transgender as an excuse to come in and assault. I would like an example of such a situation.

I posted a link to 20+ such situations. And this is before these laws opening up the opposite sex's facilities to anyone that proclaims they feel like another sex than their genitalia and chromosomes say they are have become widespread. If you don't think such creeps aren't going to use that excuse to the hilt as it becomes sanctioned for odd looking cross dressers to be in the opposite sex's restrooms and locker rooms, you're crazy.

And as someone stated upthread, this does not actually prevent sexual assaults in the restroom or anywhere else, and we already have laws where that is now against the law.

And laws against murder don't prevent murder. Should we scrap them too?

The point is to not make it easier to get away with or to not make it so that such situations are more likely to occur.

And if this law is about stopping sexual predators, why are we assuming all sexual predators prey on the gender opposite of themselves?

We don't. But not being able to prevent all predatory behavior isn't a reason not to take steps to lessen the likelihood of some.

Titan, I just see this as one place where you have bought into the rhetoric. There is not some rampant move for sexual predators using the excuse of being transgender to assault people in the restroom, it just isn't. But you have the right to feel this way, but it isn't based on fact but rather fear.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

I was just reading a survey (I'll try to find the link again) where the majority of women in Britain, France, and Germany all said they wouldn't feel comfortable using a unisex restroom. This in the so-called "enlightened" Europe where bathroom stalls are typically enclosed all the way as opposed to US stall that normally stop at about a foot from the floor and only go up about 5-6 feet.

And this didn't even ask how many of them would choose a gendered restroom over a unisex one if both were available to them. Nor did it ask how they'd feel about locker rooms and shower facilities.

I think you are overstating the level of comfort most people around the world have with nudity or partial nudity in front of strangers of the opposite sex.

[channonc 466]

What a desperation argument. I don't want to be sharing a bathroom with an unknown woman. I don't want her to hear my business and vice versa. It's different when sharing the bathroom with significant others though, obviously.

Humor me) Can you imagine going on a date with some stranger and at the expensive date, y'all walk into the bathroom together and the woman tears up the bathroom from the "closed" stall while you were just trying to wash your hands. That would not only destroy the "mood," I'd be pissed that I still had to pay the bill.

If one of you says "well then just don't go into the bathrooms together," please advise me then how these unisex bathrooms are "not a big deal." It is a big deal.

Sorry not a big deal to me.

Key part of the phrase. And not one I'd want to base policy for everyone else on.

Again, we can just agree to disagree.

In traveling through Europe especially, I rarely encountered gender specific restrooms. The only time I did, it was at major tourist attractions like museums and such with many more international travelers. At local restaurants and things, most restrooms were unisex and shared sinks, etc. I wasn't uncomfortable. I can understand why someone might be, but again, I think it is due more to thinking about our bodies in a sexual way even in non-sexual situations. Quite frankly, bodily functions just don't equate with sexuality for me.

And again, you keep wanting to narrowly focus on restrooms, which I contend would still bother most people and especially women - but it's more than just a restroom with some stalls that's affected here.

What a desperation argument. I don't want to be sharing a bathroom with an unknown woman. I don't want her to hear my business and vice versa. It's different when sharing the bathroom with significant others though, obviously.

Humor me) Can you imagine going on a date with some stranger and at the expensive date, y'all walk into the bathroom together and the woman tears up the bathroom from the "closed" stall while you were just trying to wash your hands. That would not only destroy the "mood," I'd be pissed that I still had to pay the bill.

If one of you says "well then just don't go into the bathrooms together," please advise me then how these unisex bathrooms are "not a big deal." It is a big deal.

Sorry not a big deal to me.

Key part of the phrase. And not one I'd want to base policy for everyone else on.

Well, she is a woman. One of the people you keep claiming to represent.

And I contend that she is atypical in this regard.

On the other things (locker rooms and showers), if there are separate private areas then I'm totally fine. Saunas in most Scandinavian countries are done one gender at a time with strangers, but with friends and family all genders are welcome and everyone is naked. Yes, you could be naked at a young age with your adult neighbors in the sauna. Again, I contend it is our puritan-like culture that inhibits us. Naked bodies do not necessarily equal sex. You don't have to look, and if as long as there is private shower stalls and private bathroom stalls, what's the issue.

Someone who is transgender is likely to want more privacy than someone who is not (contrary to the way these bills lead you to believe).

But who are you to tell people what they should or shouldn't feel comfortable with? It's fine if you and your family and your friends are all more open about such things. But taking your view on things and extrapolating that to the public policy arena is a different thing altogether.

And these bills don't "lead us to believe" anything about transgender people. They correctly assess what we know about sexual predators - they will look for and take advantage of any loophole or workaround you give them to gain access to facilites they don't belong in.

Ahh... so we are back to the real fear. Transgender = sexual predator. Or sexual predator uses transgender as an excuse to come in and assault. I would like an example of such a situation. And as someone stated upthread, this does not actually prevent sexual assaults in the restroom or anywhere else, and we already have laws where that is now against the law. And if this law is about stopping sexual predators, why are we assuming all sexual predators prey on the gender opposite of themselves? Haven't we had enough evidence (issues with Catholic priests and boys for example) to show that it can easily go both ways. Males can prey on males, males can prey on females, females on males, and (while admittedly less common) females on females. I'm not sure separate facilities really solve this situation at all.

"And if this law is about stopping sexual predators, why are we assuming all sexual predators prey on the gender opposite of themselves?"

Nobody suggested this. We cannot make the public completely unaccessible from all sexual predators though no matter how many laws are enforced. However we can use common sense.

Maybe it's just because you're a woman and you never had to go through hormone raging puberty like a teenage boy, and maybe you don't understand the impact that porn has had on a lot of men's lives, but to me, what you are asking the public to do is downright scary. I wouldn't ever let my daughters go swim with some naked neighbor; I've never heard nonchalance of this subjec from anybody like this ever! I understand that you don't feel the sexuality of the matter is a big deal, but I too believe you're atypical of the overall female population in the U.S.

Again, I am not advocating that everyone must sit around naked, but rather saying I would not be uncomfortable in a stalled shower in a public bathroom that is unisex. It doesn't mean I would prance around, rather, I would use the stall to do my private business. Seeing a man at the sink while I wash my hands would not creep me out at all. Having used unisex restrooms with the necessary privacy stalls before, I found it no big deal.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Titan, I just see this as one place where you have bought into the rhetoric. There is not some rampant move for sexual predators using the excuse of being transgender to assault people in the restroom, it just isn't. But you have the right to feel this way, but it isn't based on fact but rather fear.

I've bought into common sense.

I work with children in a volunteer capacity. I have to take mandatory training each year not only on policy (things like one adult not being alone with a child, etc.) but on sexual predators - warning signs, tactics, recent cases and so on. The capacity for sexual predators to look for any weakness in the system, any opening, any excuse to gain access is all but limitless.

You are living in a fantasy world if you don't think normalizing this sort of thing won't be exploited by those looking for a free peep show or worse.

[channonc 466]

I was just reading a survey (I'll try to find the link again) where the majority of women in Britain, France, and Germany all said they wouldn't feel comfortable using a unisex restroom. This in the so-called "enlightened" Europe where bathroom stalls are typically enclosed all the way as opposed to US stall that normally stop at about a foot from the floor and only go up about 5-6 feet.

And this didn't even ask how many of them would choose a gendered restroom over a unisex one if both were available to them. Nor did it ask how they'd feel about locker rooms and shower facilities.

I think you are overstating the level of comfort most people around the world have with nudity or partial nudity in front of strangers of the opposite sex.

I was also stating that my thoughts involve private stalls and such. I'm not advocating unisex group showers. Frankly, I think group showers in general make people uncomfortable even if everyone is the same gender.

According to this article, men are much more uncomfortable in unisex restrooms than women.

Another interesting paragraph from the article:

Although initially interested in the present-day gender dynamics multi-user unisex restrooms, my investigation sparked an interest in the history—and likely future—of sex-segregated restrooms. Why are restrooms sex-segregated at all, even when they are single-user? Men and women generally share toilets in private life—there is clearly no biological necessity for segregation. Rather, according to author and law professor Terry S. Kogan (2010), sex-segregated single-user restrooms are a relic of Victorian-era prudery, anxiety over women’s entry into new social roles, and beliefs about women’s vulnerability. Today, the sex segregation of single-user restrooms has actually been codified into law in several states—a rule which proponents of “potty parity,” such as Slate writer Ted Trautman, argue is silly and inefficient.

[channonc 466]

Titan, I just see this as one place where you have bought into the rhetoric. There is not some rampant move for sexual predators using the excuse of being transgender to assault people in the restroom, it just isn't. But you have the right to feel this way, but it isn't based on fact but rather fear.

I've bought into common sense.

I work with children in a volunteer capacity. I have to take mandatory training each year not only on policy (things like one adult not being alone with a child, etc.) but on sexual predators - warning signs, tactics, recent cases and so on. The capacity for sexual predators to look for any weakness in the system, any opening, any excuse to gain access is all but limitless.

You are living in a fantasy world if you don't think normalizing this sort of thing won't be exploited by those looking for a free peep show or worse.

I actually took a class at Auburn called "Sex Crimes" as one of my electives. I learned far more in that class than most of my others. Sure, we should all be educated about predators, the signs, and taking precautions. This goes further than just being aware in the restroom. I read two very good books in that class, one on rape victims and how the news media reports them, and the gender roles there and how we excuse rape victims. Another that was written by a LEO who worked as a parole officer for child molesters. He used actual interviews and things from his parolees about how they groomed, how they chose their professions, etc. Again, my eyes are wide open in this arena. I just don't think it is the ONLY place this happens. We already have laws against rape, and sexual assault, we should continue to prosecute those predators with laws we have on the books. We don't need a needless law that is passed because of fear or bigotry cloaked in the form of fear over sexual predators. It just isn't necessary.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Titan, I just see this as one place where you have bought into the rhetoric. There is not some rampant move for sexual predators using the excuse of being transgender to assault people in the restroom, it just isn't. But you have the right to feel this way, but it isn't based on fact but rather fear.

I've bought into common sense.

I work with children in a volunteer capacity. I have to take mandatory training each year not only on policy (things like one adult not being alone with a child, etc.) but on sexual predators - warning signs, tactics, recent cases and so on. The capacity for sexual predators to look for any weakness in the system, any opening, any excuse to gain access is all but limitless.

You are living in a fantasy world if you don't think normalizing this sort of thing won't be exploited by those looking for a free peep show or worse.

I actually took a class at Auburn called "Sex Crimes" as one of my electives. I learned far more in that class than most of my others. Sure, we should all be educated about predators, the signs, and taking precautions. This goes further than just being aware in the restroom. I read two very good books in that class, one on rape victims and how the news media reports them, and the gender roles there and how we excuse rape victims. Another that was written by a LEO who worked as a parole officer for child molesters. He used actual interviews and things from his parolees about how they groomed, how they chose their professions, etc. Again, my eyes are wide open in this arena. I just don't think it is the ONLY place this happens. We already have laws against rape, and sexual assault, we should continue to prosecute those predators with laws we have on the books. We don't need a needless law that is passed because of fear or bigotry cloaked in the form of fear over sexual predators. It just isn't necessary.

But it isn't being "cloaked" as anything. Changing the laws to allow anyone that claims to "feel" like the other sex access to the opposite sex facilities makes it easier, rather than harder, to commit such crimes.

There's a reason convicted sex offenders (especially when it's children who were their victims) often have restrictions placed on where they can live, where they can hang out and so on. Sure we already have laws again them doing what they were convicted of. But we also recognize that it is unsafe and rather naive to allow for conditions where they have easy access to subjects on which to prey. And it's why churches and daycares and schools have policies regarding adults and being alone with children and so on. Yes, there are laws on the books but also there's common sense and not creating situations that make attempts more likely.

[channonc 466]

I think it's fair to say we should agree to disagree on this issue.

[aujeff11 6,243]

I was just reading a survey (I'll try to find the link again) where the majority of women in Britain, France, and Germany all said they wouldn't feel comfortable using a unisex restroom. This in the so-called "enlightened" Europe where bathroom stalls are typically enclosed all the way as opposed to US stall that normally stop at about a foot from the floor and only go up about 5-6 feet.

And this didn't even ask how many of them would choose a gendered restroom over a unisex one if both were available to them. Nor did it ask how they'd feel about locker rooms and shower facilities.

I think you are overstating the level of comfort most people around the world have with nudity or partial nudity in front of strangers of the opposite sex.

I was also stating that my thoughts involve private stalls and such. I'm not advocating unisex group showers. Frankly, I think group showers in general make people uncomfortable even if everyone is the same gender.

According to this article, men are much more uncomfortable in unisex restrooms than women.

Another interesting paragraph from the article:

Although initially interested in the present-day gender dynamics multi-user unisex restrooms, my investigation sparked an interest in the history—and likely future—of sex-segregated restrooms. Why are restrooms sex-segregated at all, even when they are single-user? Men and women generally share toilets in private life—there is clearly no biological necessity for segregation. Rather, according to author and law professor Terry S. Kogan (2010), sex-segregated single-user restrooms are a relic of Victorian-era prudery, anxiety over women’s entry into new social roles, and beliefs about women’s vulnerability. Today, the sex segregation of single-user restrooms has actually been codified into law in several states—a rule which proponents of “potty parity,” such as Slate writer Ted Trautman, argue is silly and inefficient.

Yeah, I read the article and I was reminded why I prefer same sex bathrooms. Not sure where you are going with that but I'll play along.

I still strip down ass naked in the locker room to walk my happy ass to the shower after the gym. Get ready for it ladies!

In the military, I often had to use 50 man showers and had no problem about it. Having more women than men around will be nice for a change! Go enlightened Europe go! Bring these womeens into my bathroom please!! Give me one of those 5'5 blondes with some big ole titties. Oh yeah

Yeah

...

....

[channonc 466]

I was just reading a survey (I'll try to find the link again) where the majority of women in Britain, France, and Germany all said they wouldn't feel comfortable using a unisex restroom. This in the so-called "enlightened" Europe where bathroom stalls are typically enclosed all the way as opposed to US stall that normally stop at about a foot from the floor and only go up about 5-6 feet.

And this didn't even ask how many of them would choose a gendered restroom over a unisex one if both were available to them. Nor did it ask how they'd feel about locker rooms and shower facilities.

I think you are overstating the level of comfort most people around the world have with nudity or partial nudity in front of strangers of the opposite sex.

I was also stating that my thoughts involve private stalls and such. I'm not advocating unisex group showers. Frankly, I think group showers in general make people uncomfortable even if everyone is the same gender.

According to this article, men are much more uncomfortable in unisex restrooms than women.

Another interesting paragraph from the article:

Although initially interested in the present-day gender dynamics multi-user unisex restrooms, my investigation sparked an interest in the history—and likely future—of sex-segregated restrooms. Why are restrooms sex-segregated at all, even when they are single-user? Men and women generally share toilets in private life—there is clearly no biological necessity for segregation. Rather, according to author and law professor Terry S. Kogan (2010), sex-segregated single-user restrooms are a relic of Victorian-era prudery, anxietyover women's entry into new social roles, and beliefs about women's vulnerability. Today, the sex segregation of single-user restrooms has actually been codified into law in several states—a rule which proponents of "potty parity," such as Slate writer Ted Trautman, argue is silly and inefficient.

Yeah, I read the article and I was reminded why I prefer same sex bathrooms. Not sure where you are going with that but I'll play along.

I still strip down ass naked in the locker room to walk my happy ass to the shower after the gym. Get ready for it ladies!

In the military, I often had to use 50 man showers and had no problem about it. Having more women than men around will be nice for a change! Go enlightened Europe go! Bring these womeens into my bathroom please!! Give me one of those 5'5 blondes with some big ole titties. Oh yeah

Yeah

...

....

You just proved my point re: nakedness and sexualization. A naked body is not necessarily sexual.

[aujeff11 6,243]

I was just reading a survey (I'll try to find the link again) where the majority of women in Britain, France, and Germany all said they wouldn't feel comfortable using a unisex restroom. This in the so-called "enlightened" Europe where bathroom stalls are typically enclosed all the way as opposed to US stall that normally stop at about a foot from the floor and only go up about 5-6 feet.

And this didn't even ask how many of them would choose a gendered restroom over a unisex one if both were available to them. Nor did it ask how they'd feel about locker rooms and shower facilities.

I think you are overstating the level of comfort most people around the world have with nudity or partial nudity in front of strangers of the opposite sex.

I was also stating that my thoughts involve private stalls and such. I'm not advocating unisex group showers. Frankly, I think group showers in general make people uncomfortable even if everyone is the same gender.

According to this article, men are much more uncomfortable in unisex restrooms than women.

Another interesting paragraph from the article:

Although initially interested in the present-day gender dynamics multi-user unisex restrooms, my investigation sparked an interest in the history—and likely future—of sex-segregated restrooms. Why are restrooms sex-segregated at all, even when they are single-user? Men and women generally share toilets in private life—there is clearly no biological necessity for segregation. Rather, according to author and law professor Terry S. Kogan (2010), sex-segregated single-user restrooms are a relic of Victorian-era prudery, anxietyover women's entry into new social roles, and beliefs about women's vulnerability. Today, the sex segregation of single-user restrooms has actually been codified into law in several states—a rule which proponents of "potty parity," such as Slate writer Ted Trautman, argue is silly and inefficient.

Yeah, I read the article and I was reminded why I prefer same sex bathrooms. Not sure where you are going with that but I'll play along.

I still strip down ass naked in the locker room to walk my happy ass to the shower after the gym. Get ready for it ladies!

In the military, I often had to use 50 man showers and had no problem about it. Having more women than men around will be nice for a change! Go enlightened Europe go! Bring these womeens into my bathroom please!! Give me one of those 5'5 blondes with some big ole titties. Oh yeah

Yeah

...

....

You just proved my point re: nakedness and sexualization. A naked body is not necessarily sexual.

Ha. Okay. How many naked posters or sultry posters are on teenage boys walls and such! How do you think a boy that age will be able to control himself. Much less a grown man that is addicted to porn, efc.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

I was just reading a survey (I'll try to find the link again) where the majority of women in Britain, France, and Germany all said they wouldn't feel comfortable using a unisex restroom. This in the so-called "enlightened" Europe where bathroom stalls are typically enclosed all the way as opposed to US stall that normally stop at about a foot from the floor and only go up about 5-6 feet.

And this didn't even ask how many of them would choose a gendered restroom over a unisex one if both were available to them. Nor did it ask how they'd feel about locker rooms and shower facilities.

I think you are overstating the level of comfort most people around the world have with nudity or partial nudity in front of strangers of the opposite sex.

I was also stating that my thoughts involve private stalls and such. I'm not advocating unisex group showers. Frankly, I think group showers in general make people uncomfortable even if everyone is the same gender.

According to this article, men are much more uncomfortable in unisex restrooms than women.

Another interesting paragraph from the article:

Although initially interested in the present-day gender dynamics multi-user unisex restrooms, my investigation sparked an interest in the history—and likely future—of sex-segregated restrooms. Why are restrooms sex-segregated at all, even when they are single-user? Men and women generally share toilets in private life—there is clearly no biological necessity for segregation. Rather, according to author and law professor Terry S. Kogan (2010), sex-segregated single-user restrooms are a relic of Victorian-era prudery, anxietyover women's entry into new social roles, and beliefs about women's vulnerability. Today, the sex segregation of single-user restrooms has actually been codified into law in several states—a rule which proponents of "potty parity," such as Slate writer Ted Trautman, argue is silly and inefficient.

Yeah, I read the article and I was reminded why I prefer same sex bathrooms. Not sure where you are going with that but I'll play along.

I still strip down ass naked in the locker room to walk my happy ass to the shower after the gym. Get ready for it ladies!

In the military, I often had to use 50 man showers and had no problem about it. Having more women than men around will be nice for a change! Go enlightened Europe go! Bring these womeens into my bathroom please!! Give me one of those 5'5 blondes with some big ole titties. Oh yeah

Yeah

...

....

You just proved my point re: nakedness and sexualization. A naked body is not necessarily sexual.

If the beach is any indication, that's got some merit. The men wearing the Speedos and the women wearing the thong bikinis are usually the ones you least wish would do so.

[channonc 466]

I was just reading a survey (I'll try to find the link again) where the majority of women in Britain, France, and Germany all said they wouldn't feel comfortable using a unisex restroom. This in the so-called "enlightened" Europe where bathroom stalls are typically enclosed all the way as opposed to US stall that normally stop at about a foot from the floor and only go up about 5-6 feet.

And this didn't even ask how many of them would choose a gendered restroom over a unisex one if both were available to them. Nor did it ask how they'd feel about locker rooms and shower facilities.

I think you are overstating the level of comfort most people around the world have with nudity or partial nudity in front of strangers of the opposite sex.

I was also stating that my thoughts involve private stalls and such. I'm not advocating unisex group showers. Frankly, I think group showers in general make people uncomfortable even if everyone is the same gender.

According to this article, men are much more uncomfortable in unisex restrooms than women.

Another interesting paragraph from the article:

Although initially interested in the present-day gender dynamics multi-user unisex restrooms, my investigation sparked an interest in the history—and likely future—of sex-segregated restrooms. Why are restrooms sex-segregated at all, even when they are single-user? Men and women generally share toilets in private life—there is clearly no biological necessity for segregation. Rather, according to author and law professor Terry S. Kogan (2010), sex-segregated single-user restrooms are a relic of Victorian-era prudery, anxietyover women's entry into new social roles, and beliefs about women's vulnerability. Today, the sex segregation of single-user restrooms has actually been codified into law in several states—a rule which proponents of "potty parity," such as Slate writer Ted Trautman, argue is silly and inefficient.

Yeah, I read the article and I was reminded why I prefer same sex bathrooms. Not sure where you are going with that but I'll play along.

I still strip down ass naked in the locker room to walk my happy ass to the shower after the gym. Get ready for it ladies!

In the military, I often had to use 50 man showers and had no problem about it. Having more women than men around will be nice for a change! Go enlightened Europe go! Bring these womeens into my bathroom please!! Give me one of those 5'5 blondes with some big ole titties. Oh yeah

Yeah

...

....

You just proved my point re: nakedness and sexualization. A naked body is not necessarily sexual.

Ha. Okay. How many naked posters or sultry posters are on teenage boys walls and such! How do you think a boy that age will be able to control himself. Much less a grown man that is addicted to porn, efc.

Using your logic, what about gay men addicted to porn? I'm sure you have showered in a locker room where there was a gay man and didn't know it. What's the difference?

[aujeff11 6,243]

I was just reading a survey (I'll try to find the link again) where the majority of women in Britain, France, and Germany all said they wouldn't feel comfortable using a unisex restroom. This in the so-called "enlightened" Europe where bathroom stalls are typically enclosed all the way as opposed to US stall that normally stop at about a foot from the floor and only go up about 5-6 feet.

And this didn't even ask how many of them would choose a gendered restroom over a unisex one if both were available to them. Nor did it ask how they'd feel about locker rooms and shower facilities.

I think you are overstating the level of comfort most people around the world have with nudity or partial nudity in front of strangers of the opposite sex.

I was also stating that my thoughts involve private stalls and such. I'm not advocating unisex group showers. Frankly, I think group showers in general make people uncomfortable even if everyone is the same gender.

According to this article, men are much more uncomfortable in unisex restrooms than women.

Another interesting paragraph from the article:

Although initially interested in the present-day gender dynamics multi-user unisex restrooms, my investigation sparked an interest in the history—and likely future—of sex-segregated restrooms. Why are restrooms sex-segregated at all, even when they are single-user? Men and women generally share toilets in private life—there is clearly no biological necessity for segregation. Rather, according to author and law professor Terry S. Kogan (2010), sex-segregated single-user restrooms are a relic of Victorian-era prudery, anxietyover women's entry into new social roles, and beliefs about women's vulnerability. Today, the sex segregation of single-user restrooms has actually been codified into law in several states—a rule which proponents of "potty parity," such as Slate writer Ted Trautman, argue is silly and inefficient.

Yeah, I read the article and I was reminded why I prefer same sex bathrooms. Not sure where you are going with that but I'll play along.

I still strip down ass naked in the locker room to walk my happy ass to the shower after the gym. Get ready for it ladies!

In the military, I often had to use 50 man showers and had no problem about it. Having more women than men around will be nice for a change! Go enlightened Europe go! Bring these womeens into my bathroom please!! Give me one of those 5'5 blondes with some big ole titties. Oh yeah

Yeah

...

....

You just proved my point re: nakedness and sexualization. A naked body is not necessarily sexual.

Ha. Okay. How many naked posters or sultry posters are on teenage boys walls and such! How do you think a boy that age will be able to control himself. Much less a grown man that is addicted to porn, efc.

Using your logic, what about gay men addicted to porn? I'm sure you have showered in a locker room where there was a gay man and didn't know it. What's the difference?

I had a roommate that was gay. I allowed him to compliment my clothes and that was it. I made sure that dude knew where the line was. As far as the hypothetical guy dude in the fifty man shower, he was in hog heaven I guess. I bet he reenlists for the rest of his life.

[channonc 466]

I was just reading a survey (I'll try to find the link again) where the majority of women in Britain, France, and Germany all said they wouldn't feel comfortable using a unisex restroom. This in the so-called "enlightened" Europe where bathroom stalls are typically enclosed all the way as opposed to US stall that normally stop at about a foot from the floor and only go up about 5-6 feet.

And this didn't even ask how many of them would choose a gendered restroom over a unisex one if both were available to them. Nor did it ask how they'd feel about locker rooms and shower facilities.

I think you are overstating the level of comfort most people around the world have with nudity or partial nudity in front of strangers of the opposite sex.

I was also stating that my thoughts involve private stalls and such. I'm not advocating unisex group showers. Frankly, I think group showers in general make people uncomfortable even if everyone is the same gender.

According to this article, men are much more uncomfortable in unisex restrooms than women.

Another interesting paragraph from the article:

Although initially interested in the present-day gender dynamics multi-user unisex restrooms, my investigation sparked an interest in the history—and likely future—of sex-segregated restrooms. Why are restrooms sex-segregated at all, even when they are single-user? Men and women generally share toilets in private life—there is clearly no biological necessity for segregation. Rather, according to author and law professor Terry S. Kogan (2010), sex-segregated single-user restrooms are a relic of Victorian-era prudery, anxietyover women's entry into new social roles, and beliefs about women's vulnerability. Today, the sex segregation of single-user restrooms has actually been codified into law in several states—a rule which proponents of "potty parity," such as Slate writer Ted Trautman, argue is silly and inefficient.

Yeah, I read the article and I was reminded why I prefer same sex bathrooms. Not sure where you are going with that but I'll play along.

I still strip down ass naked in the locker room to walk my happy ass to the shower after the gym. Get ready for it ladies!

In the military, I often had to use 50 man showers and had no problem about it. Having more women than men around will be nice for a change! Go enlightened Europe go! Bring these womeens into my bathroom please!! Give me one of those 5'5 blondes with some big ole titties. Oh yeah

Yeah

...

....

You just proved my point re: nakedness and sexualization. A naked body is not necessarily sexual.

Ha. Okay. How many naked posters or sultry posters are on teenage boys walls and such! How do you think a boy that age will be able to control himself. Much less a grown man that is addicted to porn, efc.

Using your logic, what about gay men addicted to porn? I'm sure you have showered in a locker room where there was a gay man and didn't know it. What's the difference?

I had a roommate that was gay. I allowed him to compliment my clothes and that was it. I made sure that dude knew where the line was. As far as the hypothetical guy dude in the fifty man shower, he was in hog heaven I guess. I bet he reenlists for the rest of his life.

Again, there's no difference.

And P.S. What's with the "I made sure that dude knew where the line was"? I'm sure he knew the moment he knew you weren't gay.

[aujeff11 6,243]

I was just reading a survey (I'll try to find the link again) where the majority of women in Britain, France, and Germany all said they wouldn't feel comfortable using a unisex restroom. This in the so-called "enlightened" Europe where bathroom stalls are typically enclosed all the way as opposed to US stall that normally stop at about a foot from the floor and only go up about 5-6 feet.

And this didn't even ask how many of them would choose a gendered restroom over a unisex one if both were available to them. Nor did it ask how they'd feel about locker rooms and shower facilities.

I think you are overstating the level of comfort most people around the world have with nudity or partial nudity in front of strangers of the opposite sex.

I was also stating that my thoughts involve private stalls and such. I'm not advocating unisex group showers. Frankly, I think group showers in general make people uncomfortable even if everyone is the same gender.

According to this article, men are much more uncomfortable in unisex restrooms than women.

Another interesting paragraph from the article:

Although initially interested in the present-day gender dynamics multi-user unisex restrooms, my investigation sparked an interest in the history—and likely future—of sex-segregated restrooms. Why are restrooms sex-segregated at all, even when they are single-user? Men and women generally share toilets in private life—there is clearly no biological necessity for segregation. Rather, according to author and law professor Terry S. Kogan (2010), sex-segregated single-user restrooms are a relic of Victorian-era prudery, anxietyover women's entry into new social roles, and beliefs about women's vulnerability. Today, the sex segregation of single-user restrooms has actually been codified into law in several states—a rule which proponents of "potty parity," such as Slate writer Ted Trautman, argue is silly and inefficient.

Yeah, I read the article and I was reminded why I prefer same sex bathrooms. Not sure where you are going with that but I'll play along.

I still strip down ass naked in the locker room to walk my happy ass to the shower after the gym. Get ready for it ladies!

In the military, I often had to use 50 man showers and had no problem about it. Having more women than men around will be nice for a change! Go enlightened Europe go! Bring these womeens into my bathroom please!! Give me one of those 5'5 blondes with some big ole titties. Oh yeah

Yeah

...

....

You just proved my point re: nakedness and sexualization. A naked body is not necessarily sexual.

Ha. Okay. How many naked posters or sultry posters are on teenage boys walls and such! How do you think a boy that age will be able to control himself. Much less a grown man that is addicted to porn, efc.

Using your logic, what about gay men addicted to porn? I'm sure you have showered in a locker room where there was a gay man and didn't know it. What's the difference?

I had a roommate that was gay. I allowed him to compliment my clothes and that was it. I made sure that dude knew where the line was. As far as the hypothetical guy dude in the fifty man shower, he was in hog heaven I guess. I bet he reenlists for the rest of his life.

Again, there's no difference.

And P.S. What's with the "I made sure that dude knew where the line was"? I'm sure he knew the moment he knew you weren't gay.

Im sure he knew the moment he knew you weren't gay."

Well then I reaffirmed. Don't judge me.

And again, even though the male to male stalking/ peeping is a crime, There is no way we could possibly make a fifty man shower turn into 50 individual units. The fifty men that were checked out were still violated though so what are you saying?

[channonc 466]

I was just reading a survey (I'll try to find the link again) where the majority of women in Britain, France, and Germany all said they wouldn't feel comfortable using a unisex restroom. This in the so-called "enlightened" Europe where bathroom stalls are typically enclosed all the way as opposed to US stall that normally stop at about a foot from the floor and only go up about 5-6 feet.

And this didn't even ask how many of them would choose a gendered restroom over a unisex one if both were available to them. Nor did it ask how they'd feel about locker rooms and shower facilities.

I think you are overstating the level of comfort most people around the world have with nudity or partial nudity in front of strangers of the opposite sex.

I was also stating that my thoughts involve private stalls and such. I'm not advocating unisex group showers. Frankly, I think group showers in general make people uncomfortable even if everyone is the same gender.

According to this article, men are much more uncomfortable in unisex restrooms than women.

Another interesting paragraph from the article:

Although initially interested in the present-day gender dynamics multi-user unisex restrooms, my investigation sparked an interest in the history—and likely future—of sex-segregated restrooms. Why are restrooms sex-segregated at all, even when they are single-user? Men and women generally share toilets in private life—there is clearly no biological necessity for segregation. Rather, according to author and law professor Terry S. Kogan (2010), sex-segregated single-user restrooms are a relic of Victorian-era prudery, anxietyover women's entry into new social roles, and beliefs about women's vulnerability. Today, the sex segregation of single-user restrooms has actually been codified into law in several states—a rule which proponents of "potty parity," such as Slate writer Ted Trautman, argue is silly and inefficient.

Yeah, I read the article and I was reminded why I prefer same sex bathrooms. Not sure where you are going with that but I'll play along.

I still strip down ass naked in the locker room to walk my happy ass to the shower after the gym. Get ready for it ladies!

In the military, I often had to use 50 man showers and had no problem about it. Having more women than men around will be nice for a change! Go enlightened Europe go! Bring these womeens into my bathroom please!! Give me one of those 5'5 blondes with some big ole titties. Oh yeah

Yeah

...

....

You just proved my point re: nakedness and sexualization. A naked body is not necessarily sexual.

Ha. Okay. How many naked posters or sultry posters are on teenage boys walls and such! How do you think a boy that age will be able to control himself. Much less a grown man that is addicted to porn, efc.

Using your logic, what about gay men addicted to porn? I'm sure you have showered in a locker room where there was a gay man and didn't know it. What's the difference?

I had a roommate that was gay. I allowed him to compliment my clothes and that was it. I made sure that dude knew where the line was. As far as the hypothetical guy dude in the fifty man shower, he was in hog heaven I guess. I bet he reenlists for the rest of his life.

Again, there's no difference.

And P.S. What's with the "I made sure that dude knew where the line was"? I'm sure he knew the moment he knew you weren't gay.

Im sure he knew the moment he knew you weren't gay."

Well then I reaffirmed. Don't judge me.

And again, even though the male to male stalking/ peeping is a crime, There is no way we could possibly make a fifty man shower turn into 50 individual units. The fifty men that were checked out were still violated though so what are you saying?

I don't see the difference in a guy checking you out and a girl checking you out. JMO. Most public restrooms are not 50 shower operations. The military has it's own rules for a whole host of things, so I am not referring to them in the above posts. I'm talking about your run of the mill public restroom. For example, I head to dinner or grab a drink at a bar, I frankly don't care if the restroom they have is gender neutral. Makes no difference to me whatsoever.

[channonc 466]

Related news from today:

Federal appeals court sides with transgender teen, says bathroom case can go forward

[TitanTiger 20,482]

I find it strange to so confidently proclaim a preference for not sharing facilities with the opposite sex where a person will be in various states of undress as either bigotry or being sexually repressed/uptight. The notion that modesty and privacy are somehow just a relic of Victorian prudishness strikes me as rather presumptuous and arrogant.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Related news from today:

Federal appeals court sides with transgender teen, says bathroom case can go forward

"Yep. You girls and your privacy be damned. The girl with a penis trumps all."

[channonc 466]

I find it strange to so confidently proclaim a preference for not sharing facilities with the opposite sex where a person will be in various states of undress as either bigotry or being sexually repressed/uptight. The notion that modesty and privacy are somehow just a relic of Victorian prudishness strikes me as rather presumptuous and arrogant.

Again, I'm not suggesting there should be no privacy, but rather private stalls in a public restroom. Most are already set up like this. Why do I care if there is a man in the stall next to me (I don't).

[aujeff11 6,243]

I was just reading a survey (I'll try to find the link again) where the majority of women in Britain, France, and Germany all said they wouldn't feel comfortable using a unisex restroom. This in the so-called "enlightened" Europe where bathroom stalls are typically enclosed all the way as opposed to US stall that normally stop at about a foot from the floor and only go up about 5-6 feet.

And this didn't even ask how many of them would choose a gendered restroom over a unisex one if both were available to them. Nor did it ask how they'd feel about locker rooms and shower facilities.

I think you are overstating the level of comfort most people around the world have with nudity or partial nudity in front of strangers of the opposite sex.

I was also stating that my thoughts involve private stalls and such. I'm not advocating unisex group showers. Frankly, I think group showers in general make people uncomfortable even if everyone is the same gender.

According to this article, men are much more uncomfortable in unisex restrooms than women.

Another interesting paragraph from the article:

Although initially interested in the present-day gender dynamics multi-user unisex restrooms, my investigation sparked an interest in the history—and likely future—of sex-segregated restrooms. Why are restrooms sex-segregated at all, even when they are single-user? Men and women generally share toilets in private life—there is clearly no biological necessity for segregation. Rather, according to author and law professor Terry S. Kogan (2010), sex-segregated single-user restrooms are a relic of Victorian-era prudery, anxietyover women's entry into new social roles, and beliefs about women's vulnerability. Today, the sex segregation of single-user restrooms has actually been codified into law in several states—a rule which proponents of "potty parity," such as Slate writer Ted Trautman, argue is silly and inefficient.

Yeah, I read the article and I was reminded why I prefer same sex bathrooms. Not sure where you are going with that but I'll play along.

I still strip down ass naked in the locker room to walk my happy ass to the shower after the gym. Get ready for it ladies!

In the military, I often had to use 50 man showers and had no problem about it. Having more women than men around will be nice for a change! Go enlightened Europe go! Bring these womeens into my bathroom please!! Give me one of those 5'5 blondes with some big ole titties. Oh yeah

Yeah

...

....

You just proved my point re: nakedness and sexualization. A naked body is not necessarily sexual.

Ha. Okay. How many naked posters or sultry posters are on teenage boys walls and such! How do you think a boy that age will be able to control himself. Much less a grown man that is addicted to porn, efc.

Using your logic, what about gay men addicted to porn? I'm sure you have showered in a locker room where there was a gay man and didn't know it. What's the difference?

I had a roommate that was gay. I allowed him to compliment my clothes and that was it. I made sure that dude knew where the line was. As far as the hypothetical guy dude in the fifty man shower, he was in hog heaven I guess. I bet he reenlists for the rest of his life.

Again, there's no difference.

And P.S. What's with the "I made sure that dude knew where the line was"? I'm sure he knew the moment he knew you weren't gay.

Im sure he knew the moment he knew you weren't gay."

Well then I reaffirmed. Don't judge me.

And again, even though the male to male stalking/ peeping is a crime, There is no way we could possibly make a fifty man shower turn into 50 individual units. The fifty men that were checked out were still violated though so what are you saying?

I don't see the difference in a guy checking you out and a girl checking you out. JMO. Most public restrooms are not 50 shower operations. The military has it's own rules for a whole host of things, so I am not referring to them in the above posts. I'm talking about your run of the mill public restroom. For example, I head to dinner or grab a drink at a bar, I frankly don't care if the restroom they have is gender neutral. Makes no difference to me whatsoever.

There is absolutely no difference in a male checking me out in a shower and a female checking me when I'm in a shower other than there is bro code that is blatantly broken. Both is unwanted. But it's not like banning multiuser bathrooms is pratical so only using same sex bathrooms would be a good compromise. I'd think the majority of sexual assault and sexual violations are incidents beween two different sexes. If you're talking about my roommate, I told him I didn't mind his compliments, but I'd be uncomfortable if he did anything else. All this was said because I told him at a party to tell this woman I was gay just because she talked too damn much.

He then tried to grab my hand when I was smoking a cig outside.

But anyway like I said, if a woman is comfortable enough to watch me march from the locker to the shower, then so be it.

[homersapien 11,373]

I find it strange to so confidently proclaim a preference for not sharing facilities with the opposite sex where a person will be in various states of undress as either bigotry or being sexually repressed/uptight. The notion that modesty and privacy are somehow just a relic of Victorian prudishness strikes me as rather presumptuous and arrogant.

When's the last time you walked in a public restroom and saw people in "various states of undress"?