Rhett comments on his departure

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 hour ago, AUDevil said:

I still question whether Gus really wants to be an OC or a HC.  I'm sure he likes the prestige, autonomy, and money that goes with the HC title...but probably prefers to develop the offensive gameplan to a very detailed level...out of fear or because he really enjoys it or both

I think you're right that there are aspects of both he loves. You should understand this as well as anyone, in your position. As a creative director I'm in the same boat. I love many of the management aspects of my position, but at the same time, there's something warm and fuzzy about getting down into the trenches and doing the actual design work. While I wouldn't want to give up my ability to hone new talent and create a great environment for my team, I also don't want to completely give up doing the work.  I'm sure Gus feels the same way. When you are as invested as he is in the offensive strategies, it's hard not to play in the sandbox.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

It's basic to how advancement works. As you take on bigger responsibilities, you delegate existing ones. It's beyond me why anyone continues to struggle with this. 

Yup... it amazes me how people struggle with the fact that he can't be old Gus with that much on his plate... but then I look at my job and how the executives at my company view me and I totally understand.

[Tiger 8,825]

He'd do himself a favor by employing more coaches that he feels are actually worthy of his trust. Does he fully trust Kodi? He didn't trust Rhett until his hand was forced. He trusted Hand but I'd say that may not have been the best idea. Does he trust Chip? Did he trust Dameyune? I don't mean what he says in the media, but does he REALLY trust his guys? After Chip was hired Gus said "I don't know" when asked if he would have given up the reigns (Gus' claim) to Rhett like he claimed he had for Chip. Yikes. So, between Rhett/Craig/Kodi/Hand/Chip -- our OC's and co-OC's since the Malzahn era started -- there is not 1 single guy in that group that Gus actually trusts to carry out OC duties if this rumor regarding Chip is true. Not good.

If he doesn't think a guy is competent enough to do their jobs to their full job description, why exactly did he hire them?

 

[Mikey 16,598]

5 hours ago, keesler said:

The bammers are spreading bullcrap to a high school coach with former ties to Lindsey?  The HS coach is now spreading fake news that Lindsey has mixed feelings about taking a job where the HC can't find it in himself to trust his staff enough to let them do their jobs?  

First of all, I don't know what the bammers would gain by spreading this type of stuff (since it's only been mentioned on this little board.)  Second, I don't doubt that Lindsey may have second thoughts about coaching under Gus.  Third, if Lindsey has done an ounce of research prior to accepting the job, then he would've known exactly what he was getting into.  

Thank you. " Third, if Lindsey has done an ounce of research prior to accepting the job, then he would've known exactly what he was getting into." That's my point. He knew exactly what he was getting into. The balderdash about him saying he never would have come here had he known is just that. Balderdash. 

If you don't think bammers will create any negative rumor they can dream up about Auburn and spread it as truth, you aren't paranoid enough.

[keesler 5,924]

2 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

This is very well said. I can vision Gus being like this in at least 85% of the initial paragraph of your post. I, believe the article of Gus’s Ten Commandments even said that Gus double checks over and over and over the playbook for fear of missing on key details. As detail oriented as he is, I think he may like being OC better as well.

Well, apparently he obsesses way too much about the details to the point that it's clouding his ability to recognize how predictable his schemes can become.  That's where his OC & co-OC's should be able to step in and show him where he can't see the forest for the trees and show him where he needs to shake up the game plan to fit the opponent..

I look for this season to be markedly better, returning the starting QB & OC, a lot of depth and all the coaches are another season into Gus program.  

[The Freak 2,528]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Another example would be the kitchen in a fine dining restaurant. The chef isn't cooking your food. There's a good chance he or she isn't even in the kitchen. The sous chef and everyone else on down the line are executing the chef's vision. But a lot goes into getting to a point where that handoff can be made. 

That's why I'm optimistic for 2018. I think Gus has seen that Chip can design the building and cook the food. 

Yes, but can Lindsey run the ball up the middle on first down properly?

[Tiger Refuge 6,663]

2 hours ago, Tiger said:

He'd do himself a favor by employing more coaches that he feels are actually worthy of his trust. Does he fully trust Kodi? He didn't trust Rhett until his hand was forced. He trusted Hand but I'd say that may not have been the best idea. Does he trust Chip? Did he trust Dameyune? I don't mean what he says in the media, but does he REALLY trust his guys? After Chip was hired Gus said "I don't know" when asked if he would have given up the reigns (Gus' claim) to Rhett like he claimed he had for Chip. Yikes. So, between Rhett/Craig/Kodi/Hand/Chip -- our OC's and co-OC's since the Malzahn era started -- there is not 1 single guy in that group that Gus actually trusts to carry out OC duties if this rumor regarding Chip is true. Not good.

If he doesn't think a guy is competent enough to do their jobs to their full job description, why exactly did he hire them?

 

In an attempt to read too much into it, perhaps it’s in an attempt at self justification(is that even a phrase?) FOR staying involved. Hire coordinators/offensive coaches that are a bit green, therefore justifying (in his own mind) the need to stay deeply involved? 

 Heck, I don’t know. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 hours ago, Tiger said:

He'd do himself a favor by employing more coaches that he feels are actually worthy of his trust. Does he fully trust Kodi? He didn't trust Rhett until his hand was forced. He trusted Hand but I'd say that may not have been the best idea. Does he trust Chip? Did he trust Dameyune? I don't mean what he says in the media, but does he REALLY trust his guys? After Chip was hired Gus said "I don't know" when asked if he would have given up the reigns (Gus' claim) to Rhett like he claimed he had for Chip. Yikes. So, between Rhett/Craig/Kodi/Hand/Chip -- our OC's and co-OC's since the Malzahn era started -- there is not 1 single guy in that group that Gus actually trusts to carry out OC duties if this rumor regarding Chip is true. Not good.

If he doesn't think a guy is competent enough to do their jobs to their full job description, why exactly did he hire them?

The whole concept that he has "trust" issues came from internet babble. I would say he trusts every one of them or he wouldn't have hired them in the first place or be keeping them around (see Dameyune as an example of someone who didn't work out). The truth is more likely that he is very hands on and detail oriented (something we should all recognize from his days as an OC), and he can't help himself but to be involved in the details. He definitely micromanages certain aspects of the team. We also know from listening to him talk that he has a specific way of doing things and he believes that way works, and he does have a lot of examples to back up that philosophy which makes it hard to convince him that he's wrong when he is. That can be a hard boss to work under, however.

I totally get it. I like my boss as a person, but he is super controlling. It's not that he doesn't trust me, it's that he likes things his way and doesn't want to give up ownership of anything. Anyone in my position would have to deal with the same thing, so it has nothing to do with trust. 

[DAG 33,982]

2 hours ago, Tiger said:

He'd do himself a favo tr by employing more coaches that he feels are actually worthy of his trust. Does he fully trust Kodi? He didn't trust Rhett until his hand was forced. He trusted Hand but I'd say that may not have been the best idea. Does he trust Chip? Did he trust Dameyune? I don't mean what he says in the media, but does he REALLY trust his guys? After Chip was hired Gus said "I don't know" when asked if he would have given up the reigns (Gus' claim) to Rhett like he claimed he had for Chip. Yikes. So, between Rhett/Craig/Kodi/Hand/Chip -- our OC's and co-OC's since the Malzahn era started -- there is not 1 single guy in that group that Gus actually trusts to carry out OC duties if this rumor regarding Chip is true. Not good

If he doesn't think a guy is competent enough to do their jobs to their full job description, why exactly did he hire them?

 

1

You are 100 percent spot on with this. Trust your guys to get it done, this includes the players. And you would think he would be the opposite of as it has happened to him in the past as an OC (Houston Nutt, Gene Chizik).

[McLoofus 35,182]

14 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

The whole concept that he has "trust" issues came from internet babble. I would say he trusts every one of them or he wouldn't have hired them in the first place or be keeping them around (see Dameyune as an example of someone who didn't work out). The truth is more likely that he is very hands on and detail oriented (something we should all recognize from his days as an OC), and he can't help himself but to be involved in the details. He definitely micromanages certain aspects of the team. We also know from listening to him talk that he has a specific way of doing things and he believes that way works, and he does have a lot of examples to back up that philosophy which makes it hard to convince him that he's wrong when he is. That can be a hard boss to work under, however.

I totally get it. I like my boss as a person, but he is super controlling. It's not that he doesn't trust me, it's that he likes things his way and doesn't want to give up ownership of anything. Anyone in my position would have to deal with the same thing, so it has nothing to do with trust. 

I think we're all saying the same thing. Micromanagement, trust, control issues... same bucket the way I see it. And the solution is the same. 

Over the last 2 seasons, our best offensive performances have occurred after a major change to Gus's involvement in the play calling occurred and before injuries ripped the guts out of the offense. Some will cite the level of competition, but we're talking about 350 yard and 20 point swings in offensive output. 

Gus needs to let his guys do their jobs. He can wear a visor all he wants but he's not Steve Spurrier. And that's not a bad thing. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

I think we're all saying the same thing. Micromanagement, trust, control issues... same bucket the way I see it. And the solution is the same. 

Over the last 2 seasons, our best offensive performances have occurred after a major change to Gus's involvement in the play calling occurred and before injuries ripped the guts out of the offense. Some will cite the level of competition, but we're talking about 350 yard and 20 point swings in offensive output. 

Gus needs to let his guys do their jobs. He can wear a visor all he wants but he's not Steve Spurrier. And that's not a bad thing. 

I completely agree that it is to his benefit to let his people do their jobs and have significant input (I can say the same thing for my boss), but I don't see trust and control issues in the same bucket. To me, one is a reflection on the subordinate while the other is a reflection on the leader. Since I don't think Gus has any issues with his coaching staff or there are any glaring weaknesses, I really think it's all on him just wanting things done his way. Part of that I blame on his personality... some people are just wired that way... and part I blame on the pressure of being an SEC coach and having to answer for every performance. As much as I'd love the paycheck, I certainly don't want the kind of job where I get a daily performance review from hundreds of people who don't have nearly enough details to really know what's going on.

[Tiger 8,825]

 

16 hours ago, DAG said:

You are 100 percent spot on with this. Trust your guys to get it done, this includes the players. And you would think he would be the opposite of as it has happened to him in the past as an OC (Houston Nutt, Gene Chizik).

Right, that's the part that gets me. It's a little hypocritical to bolt from jobs because he didn't get the control he wanted as an OC but then turn around and refuse to give that same control he himself desired to his OC. Not saying he doesn't have every right to (he's the boss and gets the big bucks) but he knows first hand how an overbearing HC can negatively affect an OC's performance. And if it wasn't a key reason in holding us back I'd have no problem with it but when it results in L's then it's frustrating

[Tiger 8,825]

16 hours ago, Tiger Refuge said:

In an attempt to read too much into it, perhaps it’s in an attempt at self justification(is that even a phrase?) FOR staying involved. Hire coordinators/offensive coaches that are a bit green, therefore justifying (in his own mind) the need to stay deeply involved? 

 Heck, I don’t know. 

Yup one could certainly guesstimate that

[McLoofus 35,182]

26 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

 I certainly don't want the kind of job where I get a daily performance review from hundreds of people who don't have nearly enough details to really know what's going on.

You or me either, brother. But you tell me I'll get $7 million a year for it and I might bite the bullet for a couple years. 

Gus deals with the same, ridiculous amount of pressure and public scrutiny that all coaches of big time programs/franchises do. With time, I hope he learns how to more appropriately deal with that. 

[Tiger 8,825]

16 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

The whole concept that he has "trust" issues came from internet babble. I would say he trusts every one of them or he wouldn't have hired them in the first place or be keeping them around (see Dameyune as an example of someone who didn't work out). The truth is more likely that he is very hands on and detail oriented (something we should all recognize from his days as an OC), and he can't help himself but to be involved in the details. He definitely micromanages certain aspects of the team. We also know from listening to him talk that he has a specific way of doing things and he believes that way works, and he does have a lot of examples to back up that philosophy which makes it hard to convince him that he's wrong when he is. That can be a hard boss to work under, however.

I totally get it. I like my boss as a person, but he is super controlling. It's not that he doesn't trust me, it's that he likes things his way and doesn't want to give up ownership of anything. Anyone in my position would have to deal with the same thing, so it has nothing to do with trust. 

How can we be sure the detail oriented/micromanaging aspect of his personality isn't because he trusts himself more than he trusts others? It doesn't have to be personal exactly but some people are certainly just wired that way as you mentioned. And that certainly opens the door for @Tiger Refuge's point about hiring such green assistants enabling his desire to stay more involved than perhaps is necessary and/or good. And as @McLoofus said, we're all pretty much saying the same thing.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

30 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You or me either, brother. But you tell me I'll get $7 million a year for it and I might bite the bullet for a couple years. 

I don't think I'd last a year. 

30 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Gus deals with the same, ridiculous amount of pressure and public scrutiny that all coaches of big time programs/franchises do. With time, I hope he learns how to more appropriately deal with that. 

We can hope. I'm sure his family hopes he does as the stress is not good for him. Based on my observations, fewer big time coaches deal well with it than don't, and a most that deal with it well took at least a decade to get to that point.  I will say, a 7-year contract and at least a couple year break from "hot seat" talk should allow him to relax a little and find his groove.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

26 minutes ago, Tiger said:

How can we be sure the detail oriented/micromanaging aspect of his personality isn't because he trusts himself more than he trusts others? It doesn't have to be personal exactly but some people are certainly just wired that way as you mentioned. And that certainly opens the door for @Tiger Refuge's point about hiring such green assistants enabling his desire to stay more involved than perhaps is necessary and/or good. And as @McLoofus said, we're all pretty much saying the same thing.

To that I would say that, unless you are dealing with something that is outside your expertise, doesn't everyone trust themselves more than they trust others? That's human nature. It's called self-preservation.

While Refuge's point would carry if he had hired a bunch of green coaches, he has really only hired one truly green coach and the reason was obvious... he has a way he likes his receivers to play, especially with a focus on blocking down field, and who better to teach that to them than someone who had it taught to them. I saw the hiring of Kodi as a direct response to the frustration of working with Dameyune... he wanted someone who already did things his way and wasn't going to constantly battle with him. T-Will was mostly green when he hired him, but everyone and their brother saw that he was going to be great. Then there's Chip who is maybe a little green, but fit the model of what everyone thought he needed... someone who understood and utilized his philosophies, but expanded on them, especially in the passing game. Every other coach he has hired has been a veteran, so there would certainly be no expectation of control with them.

You may also note that every hire he's made that wasn't veteran was someone he had a previous relationship, so there was probably also a personality fit involved. Nothing is better than working with people you actually like and nothing is more detrimental to a team than people not getting along.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

We can hope. I'm sure his family hopes he does as the stress is not good for him. Based on my observations, fewer big time coaches deal well with it than don't, and a most that deal with it well took at least a decade to get to that point.  I will say, a 7-year contract and at least a couple year break from "hot seat" talk should allow him to relax a little and find his groove.

Agreed. Urban Meyer is Exhibit A. Who knows. Maybe he'll continue to grow and learn, too.

I don't want to do too much amateur psychoanalysis on Gus. I'm not qualified and he doesn't have genuine "issues". He's probably a more solid dude than most of his peers and I'll take this opportunity to reiterate my respect for how he does business in general. 

I have similar feelings about the contract, too. The cost of doing business is a beeyatch but Auburn decided to do business and I'm good with that.

 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

13 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

To that I would say that, unless you are dealing with something that is outside your expertise, doesn't everyone trust themselves more than they trust others? That's human nature. It's called self-preservation.

Innate senses are not in question. The response is. 

Clemson and LSU were the opposite of self-preservation. Were those encounters in nature, the species would've taken a hit. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Innate senses are not in question. The response is. 

Clemson and LSU were the opposite of self-preservation. Were those encounters in nature, the species would've taken a hit. 

Clemson and LSU were outliers and don't fit the model of not deferring to his staff, unless someone has actual knowledge of his staff trying to adjust course and being denied. Clemson was just a team that wasn't ready to play. Delegating any more or less than he may have wasn't going to change that. LSU was just overconfidence that got out of hand when Guice caught fire. IF Chip had a different game plan for that one and Gus overrode it, then you have an argument there, but for all we know, they were in total agreement to run the clock after having a solid lead. It's certainly not an uncommon thing to do, and let's face it, we were able to score at will against pretty much every SEC opponent prior to that.

I think the real villain behind the scenes in both of those losses is now Texas's problem.

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Clemson and LSU were outliers and don't fit the model of not deferring to his staff, unless someone has actual knowledge of his staff trying to adjust course and being denied. Clemson was just a team that wasn't ready to play. Delegating any more or less than he may have wasn't going to change that. LSU was just overconfidence that got out of hand when Guice caught fire.

Couldn't disagree more. Especially with LSU. There's no way Chip Lindsey dictated the playbook in the 2nd half. And Gus said at the time that he didn't think LSU could score and changed the game plan accordingly. And Clemson last year was the most glaring example ever. And Clemson this year was before Chip moved up to the box.

So I do agree that Hand was complicit, but Hand being Gus's proxy goes back to the root of the issue. 

Guice didn't catch fire. We kept giving them the damned ball back because we refused to get first downs. God, that was embarrassing. 

 

[Tiger 8,825]

15 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Clemson and LSU were outliers and don't fit the model of not deferring to his staff, unless someone has actual knowledge of his staff trying to adjust course and being denied. Clemson was just a team that wasn't ready to play. Delegating any more or less than he may have wasn't going to change that. LSU was just overconfidence that got out of hand when Guice caught fire. IF Chip had a different game plan for that one and Gus overrode it, then you have an argument there, but for all we know, they were in total agreement to run the clock after having a solid lead. It's certainly not an uncommon thing to do, and let's face it, we were able to score at will against pretty much every SEC opponent prior to that.

I think the real villain behind the scenes in both of those losses is now Texas's problem.

And this is where the thread turns lol. 

While you have a point to Hand being gone, I don't think any offensive coordinator in the country would just want to quit trying to score after 1 half and run up the gut whatever absurd number of times it was in a row. That tendency to just run up the middle every time pre-dates Chip Lindsey at AU.

Or Gus avoiding throwing slants and crossing patterns -- a staple of CCL's offense was suspiciously absent vs Clemson when the Clemson D was begging us to throw those routes. And since Gus has been HC we have been screen, bomb, or bust in the passing game and that's exactly what the Clemson game looked like.

We will never see an OC say "I had a plan but the HC overrode it" you have to use the "eye test", take previous tendencies into account, and connect the dots.

[keesler 5,924]

42 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Clemson and LSU were outliers and don't fit the model of not deferring to his staff, unless someone has actual knowledge of his staff trying to adjust course and being denied. Clemson was just a team that wasn't ready to play. Delegating any more or less than he may have wasn't going to change that. LSU was just overconfidence that got out of hand when Guice caught fire. IF Chip had a different game plan for that one and Gus overrode it, then you have an argument there, but for all we know, they were in total agreement to run the clock after having a solid lead. It's certainly not an uncommon thing to do, and let's face it, we were able to score at will against pretty much every SEC opponent prior to that.

I think the real villain behind the scenes in both of those losses is now Texas's problem.

Lion, there are no more "outliers" now that we have a sizable history with CGM at the helm.  That LSU game was Gus to a tee and he even admitted to making the decision to pigeon hole the offense in the 2nd half of the LSU game.  

And dadgumit if after 5 yrs Gus hasn't figured out how to prepare his staff and players and get them ready for the 2nd game of the season versus a marque match up against Clemson with the importance and national recognition that it draws, then AU has a much bigger problem than the HC dictating the offensive game plan.   A team that's "not ready to play" points directly to the Head Coach, he had 8 months to prepare his coaches and players.  When the game draws national exposure on the big stage, when the team needs to make a statement and they aren't ready to play coming off the off-season and fall camp, then that's a poor reflection of the man in charge.

It's evident he has difficulty getting his team prepared and ready to play in bowl games, but at some point after 5 yrs he should make the necessary adjustments to his preparation process in order to clean up that deficiency.   

 

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, Tiger said:

While you have a point to Hand being gone, I don't think any offensive coordinator in the country would just want to quit trying to score after 1 half and run up the gut whatever absurd number of times it was in a row. That tendency to just run up the middle every time pre-dates Chip Lindsey at AU.

We didn't quit trying to score, we switched to a clock running offense and failed to execute... for which I lay a lot of blame on substandard O-Line play. We did the same thing against several other teams and continued to score, but LSUs D manned up. Yes, we should have switched back to our full offense once they scored, but whether anyone on the staff even suggested that is anyone's guess. Had our D stopped Guice, or had our line made a couple of holes it would have been a whole different result.

2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Or Gus avoiding throwing slants and crossing patterns -- a staple of CCL's offense was suspiciously absent vs Clemson when the Clemson D was begging us to throw those routes. And since Gus has been HC we have been screen, bomb, or bust in the passing game and that's exactly what the Clemson game looked like.

Against Clemson we were breaking in a very rusty QB and a brand new OC with a line that was basically swiss cheese. Gus hates rolling the dice on turnovers, and asking a QB who isn't comfortable to throw into traffic is just that. Also, to say we are screen, bomb or bust is categorically wrong. With Sean under center he threw for nearly 3000 yards over 2 years and, as has be gone over ad nauseam, wasn't very accurate with the long ball, so most of that 3000 yards was actually mid-range passes. Now, whether Gus's fear of the middle of the field is with merit depends on what he sees in practice, but if Stidham wasn't accurate in practice on those kinds of routes, or receivers weren't getting a step, I wouldn't throw there either. 

4 minutes ago, Tiger said:

We will never see an OC say "I had a plan but the HC overrode it" you have to use the "eye test", take previous tendencies into account, and connect the dots.

Or start with a preconceived notion and fill in the blanks with the narrative to make your case. 

We all know that Gus didn't just hand the reigns to Chip and say "It's your offense". No one who knows anything about offensive minded head coaches expected that to happen, but the "Gus is calling the plays when things aren't working and isn't when they are" thing is literally just internet babble that has been repeated so many times that people take it as gospel. Is Gus to blame for bad performances?  Yes... it's his team, and if they aren't ready to play, it's on him, but unless someone is on the headsets with the coaches during the game to verify the claim, the whole narrative about him taking over is just that... a story that gives people who are upset about the game a villain to blame.

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, keesler said:

Lion, there are no more "outliers" now that we have a sizable history with CGM at the helm.  That LSU game was Gus to a tee and he even admitted to making the decision to pigeon hole the offense in the 2nd half of the LSU game.  

And dadgumit if after 5 yrs Gus hasn't figured out how to prepare his staff and players and get them ready for the 2nd game of the season versus a marque match up against Clemson with the importance and national recognition that it draws, then AU has a much bigger problem than the HC dictating the offensive game plan.   A team that's "not ready to play" points directly to the Head Coach, he had 8 months to prepare his coaches and players.  When the game draws national exposure on the big stage, when the team needs to make a statement and they aren't ready to play coming off the off-season and fall camp, then that's a poor reflection of the man in charge.

It's evident he has difficulty getting his team prepared and ready to play in bowl games, but at some point after 5 yrs he should make the necessary adjustments to his preparation process in order to clean up that deficiency.   

Thank you. Too many games where we just aren't ready to play. This is what I was trying to say the other day about Gus needing to get outside of his box/echo chamber and seek new ideas. It's not as much about Xs and Os as it is about preparing his teams and being willing/able to adjust.