Calling states like Alabama “pro life” is a sad joke

[aubearcat 2,137]

15 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

it would be helpful if more folks learned a little bit of science. i am sorry but life does not begin with a heartbeat. if so why are folks that are brain dead are allowed to die even tho their heart is still beating?they pull the plug on folks with heartbeats hundreds of times a day i would imagine. and that ectopic pregnancy being removed and put in the womb has not happened yet and so far cannot be done. i understand some people are following their heart but they need to learn the facts. and president with his bullsh*t comments certainly do not help. and we also do very little to help those babies once they are born.

https://prolifereplies.liveaction.org/no-one-knows-when-life-begins/

[AUloggerhead 2,241]

2 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

My point is pro-life encompasses more than mandating birth. Alabama’s infant mortality gets little to no attention from most anti-abortion forces.

I acknowledge your point about 'pro-life.'  To me it's just a label. 

I would also add that the states' infant mortality statistics being cited occurred well before any of the new abortion laws were passed so I don't associate the past stats with the new laws.  It's coincidental. 

[toddc 13,194]

Alabama recently set a new record for its work in foster care adoptions.

"I do not know what is in the water in Alabama, but I want it spread throughout the rest of the US: Restricting abortion and increasing adoption," he wrote on Twitter. "This is what a consistent ethic of life looks like.

[TexasTiger 12,961]

38 minutes ago, toddc said:

Alabama recently set a new record for its work in foster care adoptions.

"I do not know what is in the water in Alabama, but I want it spread throughout the rest of the US: Restricting abortion and increasing adoption," he wrote on Twitter. "This is what a consistent ethic of life looks like.

Who are you quoting?

[toddc 13,194]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

Who are you quoting?

Several articles in Alabama papers and national tv. Sorry I didn’t get that on there, but you can find it if you google. It’s on al.com for one, if you want to read the article.

[Grumps 3,704]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 10:03 AM, TexasTiger said:

Infant mortality rates say something about how life is valued in a state:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/252064/us-infant-mortality-rate-by-ethnicity-2011/

What does it say? I would have thought the infant mortality is more related to poverty than to how one values life.

[alexava 6,973]

15 minutes ago, Grumps said:

What does it say? I would have thought the infant mortality is more related to poverty than to how one values life.

Do you not see the direct correlation?

[Grumps 3,704]

3 minutes ago, alexava said:

Do you not see the direct correlation?

As you know, this is a very complex issue.

From Wikipedia:

Premature birth is the biggest contributor to the IMR.^[2] Other leading causes of infant mortality are birth asphyxia, pneumonia, congenital malformations, term birth complications such as abnormal presentation of the foetus umbilical cord prolapse, or prolonged labor,^[3]neonatal infection, diarrhoea, malaria, measles and malnutrition.^[4] One of the most common preventable causes of infant mortality is smoking during pregnancy.^[5] Many factors contribute to infant mortality, such as the mother's level of education, environmental conditions, and political and medical infrastructure.^[6] Improving sanitation, access to clean drinking water, immunization against infectious diseases, and other public health measures can help reduce high rates of infant mortality.

Certainly, how a pregnant woman values a life developing insider her affects how she behaves while pregnant (nutrition/drugs/smoking/prenatal care).  Her behavior has a major affect on the survivability of her developing infant. Also, how a society values a developing life affects how it provides maternity care and education. So, I absolutely see some correlation, but I can't say that it is a direct correlation.

I do think it is lazy to cite high infant mortality rate as proof that a state doesn't value life. Using that logic, if a state has mandatory abortions for ALL potential babies, then the infant mortality rate will be 0.00%. Does that mean that the state places a supreme value on life???

 

[alexava 6,973]

3 hours ago, Grumps said:

As you know, this is a very complex issue.

From Wikipedia:

Premature birth is the biggest contributor to the IMR.^[2] Other leading causes of infant mortality are birth asphyxia, pneumonia, congenital malformations, term birth complications such as abnormal presentation of the foetus umbilical cord prolapse, or prolonged labor,^[3]neonatal infection, diarrhoea, malaria, measles and malnutrition.^[4] One of the most common preventable causes of infant mortality is smoking during pregnancy.^[5] Many factors contribute to infant mortality, such as the mother's level of education, environmental conditions, and political and medical infrastructure.^[6] Improving sanitation, access to clean drinking water, immunization against infectious diseases, and other public health measures can help reduce high rates of infant mortality.

Certainly, how a pregnant woman values a life developing insider her affects how she behaves while pregnant (nutrition/drugs/smoking/prenatal care).  Her behavior has a major affect on the survivability of her developing infant. Also, how a society values a developing life affects how it provides maternity care and education. So, I absolutely see some correlation, but I can't say that it is a direct correlation.

I do think it is lazy to cite high infant mortality rate as proof that a state doesn't value life. Using that logic, if a state has mandatory abortions for ALL potential babies, then the infant mortality rate will be 0.00%. Does that mean that the state places a supreme value on life???

 

The state turned away medicade expansion. Alabama closed around 10? Rural hospitals. Alabama seems to be hell bent on preventing public schools from funding in multiple ways. The only pro life quality Alabama has is forcing women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term. many of these under educated, under employed, non insured women don’t have  the means to go out of state for an abortion. They don’t have the means or the wherewithal to go to a free clinic or take care of their body and another. They give birth, if the child survives he is bound to the same lifestyle he came from. Poverty, inadequate education and eventual the justice system where we are try to build more prisons that we also don’t fund enough. 

     Like others have said multiple times, this state is NOT pro life. 

[Grumps 3,704]

50 minutes ago, alexava said:

The state turned away medicade expansion. Alabama closed around 10? Rural hospitals. Alabama seems to be hell bent on preventing public schools from funding in multiple ways. The only pro life quality Alabama has is forcing women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term. many of these under educated, under employed, non insured women don’t have  the means to go out of state for an abortion. They don’t have the means or the wherewithal to go to a free clinic or take care of their body and another. They give birth, if the child survives he is bound to the same lifestyle he came from. Poverty, inadequate education and eventual the justice system where we are try to build more prisons that we also don’t fund enough. 

     Like others have said multiple times, this state is NOT pro life. 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/47522/pro-life-ethic-alabama-sets-record-adoptions-amanda-prestigiacomo

In 2018, Alabama families set a record in adopting children from the foster care system.

Why did the state turn away Medicaid expansion? Why did Alabama close rural hospitals? (They were not state run hospitals, you know).

For the record, I agree with you that Alabama does a lot of things poorly. I am glad that you care about these issues! I just still think it is lazy to cite high infant mortality rate as proof that a state doesn't value life.

[TexasTiger 12,961]

4 hours ago, Grumps said:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/47522/pro-life-ethic-alabama-sets-record-adoptions-amanda-prestigiacomo

In 2018, Alabama families set a record in adopting children from the foster care system.

Why did the state turn away Medicaid expansion? Why did Alabama close rural hospitals? (They were not state run hospitals, you know).

For the record, I agree with you that Alabama does a lot of things poorly. I am glad that you care about these issues! I just still think it is lazy to cite high infant mortality rate as proof that a state doesn't value life.

Lazy? 🙄 From one of laziest posters here when it comes to taking steps to be informed.

The poor are not prioritized in Alabama. In fact, they are largely demeaned. I grew up there. It’s gotten worse, not better.

 

 

[alexava 6,973]

4 hours ago, Grumps said:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/47522/pro-life-ethic-alabama-sets-record-adoptions-amanda-prestigiacomo

In 2018, Alabama families set a record in adopting children from the foster care system.

Why did the state turn away Medicaid expansion? Why did Alabama close rural hospitals? (They were not state run hospitals, you know).

For the record, I agree with you that Alabama does a lot of things poorly. I am glad that you care about these issues! I just still think it is lazy to cite high infant mortality rate as proof that a state doesn't value life.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al.com/news/2019/05/where-do-we-find-the-money-once-again-medicaid-expansion-stalls-in-alabama.html%3foutputType=amp

[Grumps 3,704]

1 minute ago, alexava said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al.com/news/2019/05/where-do-we-find-the-money-once-again-medicaid-expansion-stalls-in-alabama.html%3foutputType=amp

I think it was a mistake not to participate in Medicaid expansion. But I am quite sure that the reason that Alabama declined was not because no one cares about kids.

[Grumps 3,704]

16 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Lazy? 🙄 From one of laziest posters here when it comes to taking steps to be informed.

The poor are not prioritized in Alabama. In fact, they are largely demeaned. I grew up there. It’s gotten worse, not better.

 

 

I apologize for using the word "lazy" if it offends you. Maybe I misunderstood. Please explain what you meant by "Infant mortality rates say something about how life is valued in a state."

[alexava 6,973]

11 minutes ago, Grumps said:

I think it was a mistake not to participate in Medicaid expansion. But I am quite sure that the reason that Alabama declined was not because no one cares about kids.

They declined out of stubbornness for conservative ideology. iOW no effing reason at all. 

[TexasTiger 12,961]

8 minutes ago, Grumps said:

I apologize for using the word "lazy" if it offends you. Maybe I misunderstood. Please explain what you meant by "Infant mortality rates say something about how life is valued in a state."

You tell me, Doc. Most deaths occur in first 28 days. What legislation/programs has Alabama put forward in the last 20 years to crawl out of the bottom on this statistic? I’m more familiar with steps they’ve taken to lessen access to health care.

[homersapien 11,393]

22 hours ago, Grumps said:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/47522/pro-life-ethic-alabama-sets-record-adoptions-amanda-prestigiacomo

In 2018, Alabama families set a record in adopting children from the foster care system.

Why did the state turn away Medicaid expansion? Why did Alabama close rural hospitals? (They were not state run hospitals, you know).

For the record, I agree with you that Alabama does a lot of things poorly. I am glad that you care about these issues! I just still think it is lazy to cite high infant mortality rate as proof that a state doesn't value life.

Preventing unwanted pregnancies would be a far more effective way for lowering abortions than by promoting adoptions. Particularly if significant social and financial support for the pregnant woman are lacking.

The lack of a comprehensive approach and relying on a simple legal "remedy" is as much about controlling women (cheaply) than it is reducing abortions.

[homersapien 11,393]

On 5/26/2019 at 9:51 AM, Mikey said:

Clearly it's murder. Post-birth abortion is merely a term that's in use as a convenience because "murder" wouldn't be acceptable. The term "post birth abortion" is itself absurd. If it's post-birth, it cannot be an abortion by definition.

Only if the fetus is viable. 

It is my understanding that the so called "post birth abortion" laws are not directed toward viable fetus or infants but toward those who cannot survive.

[homersapien 11,393]

On 5/26/2019 at 2:16 PM, aubearcat said:

https://prolifereplies.liveaction.org/no-one-knows-when-life-begins/

That certainly doesn't refute what 50 said, logically speaking.

[homersapien 11,393]

18 hours ago, Grumps said:

I think it was a mistake not to participate in Medicaid expansion. But I am quite sure that the reason that Alabama declined was not because no one cares about kids.

Possibly not, but that is the effect and the same people who think there are easy answers to reduce abortion aren't willing to face that fact. Especially if it might cost them a little money.

[aubearcat 2,137]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

That certainly doesn't refute what 50 said, logically speaking.

Okay 

[Grumps 3,704]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

Preventing unwanted pregnancies would be a far more effective way for lowering abortions than by promoting adoptions. Particularly if significant social and financial support for the pregnant woman are lacking. I completely agree.

The lack of a comprehensive approach and relying on a simple legal "remedy" is as much about controlling women (cheaply) than it is reducing abortions. I agree that there is a lack of a comprehensive approach. I think the Alabama lawmakers are just using this issue as a political tool rather than trying to control women.

 

[homersapien 11,393]

14 hours ago, Grumps said:

I think the Alabama lawmakers are just using this issue as a political tool rather than trying to control women.

That's a distinction without a difference, unless you are implying they don't really want it - or expect it - to become law.

If that's the case, they presumably have far better things to do - considering it is Alabama. 

[autigeremt 6,652]

Let’s be honest. Whether it’s gun control, abortion rights or any other opposition issue NO ONE wants compromise anymore. It’s all or nothing and that’s a recipe for disaster.

 

 

 

[alexava 6,973]

1 hour ago, autigeremt said:

Let’s be honest. Whether it’s gun control, abortion rights or any other opposition issue NO ONE wants compromise anymore. It’s all or nothing and that’s a recipe for disaster.

 

 

 

I do. I want leaders that do.