Marshall: Paying players

[cole256 17,084]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Mark Richt sang happy birthday to a recruit over the phone. Nick Saban and Gus Malzahn had a dance contest with each other at a recruit's grandfather's birthday party. 

These coaches- millionaires and adults with decades of high level professional success- line up to literally beg these kids to come to their schools. 

Y'all think the players are getting the better end of this deal? Give me a freaking break. 

What's even more funny after getting their degree and playing the game their lives, then on top of that they aren't qualified to be management and executives in the game lol. It's complete trash and people get mad that you want to change it.....the same country that split off and left when they were taxed

[TigerHorn 1,353]

1 hour ago, Brad_ATX said:

Here's my thought.  Is a $234k scholarship worth the inherit risk involved with playing football?  Brain injuries, spinal issues, and potential death are real threats.  Just last year, a kid at Maryland died during off-season practice.  Remember Chuckie Mullins at Ole Miss?  The game left him as a quadriplegic and he died just a few years later.  Zac Etheridge in 2009 got extremely lucky.  I watched him lay virtually motionless on the JHS turf for over 15 minutes and am amazed that he was able to play again.

The risks involved, especially as athletes get bigger, stronger, and faster, are far more than any other on campus.

Had a guy who worked for me who rode gran prix motorcycles competitively for over a decade, then raced in "senior" events for another decade. Never once got seriously injured in one of the most dangerous sports on the planet. Took up biking with our company because it was one of the things we did. One year in, he rode into what looked like a shallow puddle at speed, turned out to be a pothole. Went over the handlebars, injuring his neck to a degree just short of paralysis, had to have multiple surgeries, contracted an infection in the hospital, still suffers serious side effects a decade later. 

Point is, we have no way of knowing that Chuckie Mullins, Tyrone Prothro, or any of the rest wouldn't have suffered similar catastrophic injuries by some other means if they didn't play football. We all take risks. Most things that really qualify as a sport entails them. Ever been thrown from a horse? Equestrian athletes endure that risk. Any moment can be your last, no matter what you do. Enjoy it. Just don't think there's justification for the rest of us to pay for risks that you sign up to. 

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

Actually it is too "top dollar" for me to attend games now.   Seeing as how I am on the hook for 1/2  of out-of-state tuition the next four years.

 don't want to make a decision based on something I have to imagine.  BUT  The best players go to this new league. WHY?  for money?    . A minor league football at best will pay very little.  at worst will fail miserably.    They all pretty much  have in the past.  cares enough to fork out big bucks   compared to the 1/4 of a million dollar  4 year scholarships offered now.    Not all the players JUST want to go pro.  A large portion would like a degree and secure future a well.   Besides, lots of great players go somewhere other than Auburn now,  and we get along just fine.

[TigerHorn 1,353]

12 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Now you're just voicing irrelevant political opinions. Poor form. 

If that's all you've got, you've lost the argument. 

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

1 minute ago, TigerHorn said:

If that's all you've got, you've lost the argument. 

WAIT!!!!    I missed an argument??

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

4 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

Had a guy who worked for me who rode gran prix motorcycles competitively for over a decade, then raced in "senior" events for another decade. Never once got seriously injured in one of the most dangerous sports on the planet. Took up biking with our company because it was one of the things we did. One year in, he rode into what looked like a shallow puddle at speed, turned out to be a pothole. Went over the handlebars, injuring his neck to a degree just short of paralysis, had to have multiple surgeries, contracted an infection in the hospital, still suffers serious side effects a decade later. 

Point is, we have no way of knowing that Chuckie Mullins, Tyrone Prothro, or any of the rest wouldn't have suffered similar catastrophic injuries by some other means if they didn't play football. We all take risks. Most things that really qualify as a sport entails them. Ever been thrown from a horse? Equestrian athletes endure that risk. Any moment can be your last, no matter what you do. Enjoy it. Just don't think there's justification for the rest of us to pay for risks that you sign up to. 

At what point has anyone here asked "the rest of us" to pay for these athletes to make extra money?  No one, and I mean no one, is proposing they get a salary from the school and thus tax funds.  Making money off of one's likeness in their spare time isn't asking you to pay for a dang thing.  If you choose to buy an autograph or something, then it's a choice you are making as a consumer.

[cole256 17,084]

7 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

Had a guy who worked for me who rode gran prix motorcycles competitively for over a decade, then raced in "senior" events for another decade. Never once got seriously injured in one of the most dangerous sports on the planet. Took up biking with our company because it was one of the things we did. One year in, he rode into what looked like a shallow puddle at speed, turned out to be a pothole. Went over the handlebars, injuring his neck to a degree just short of paralysis, had to have multiple surgeries, contracted an infection in the hospital, still suffers serious side effects a decade later. 

Point is, we have no way of knowing that Chuckie Mullins, Tyrone Prothro, or any of the rest wouldn't have suffered similar catastrophic injuries by some other means if they didn't play football. We all take risks. Most things that really qualify as a sport entails them. Ever been thrown from a horse? Equestrian athletes endure that risk. Any moment can be your last, no matter what you do. Enjoy it. Just don't think there's justification for the rest of us to pay for risks that you sign up to. 

This is actually a great representation of what you really mean to people when you're playing.....don't think you're getting love and respect....people don't care about you for real

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

If that's all you've got, you've lost the argument. 

Exactly. 

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

28 minutes ago, cole256 said:

The top guys? Very

I'd like to hear more about all these top guys that made it to the NFL without a college platform to showcase their skills.   

[madkat7 233]

What we have here is a no-win situation.

• Don't pay the players and it's un-American to prevent them from profiting from their own image and work.
• Allow them to work side jobs like normal students and corruption walks in a wide open door.
• Pay them according to an organized plan and we alter the athletes motivations and drastically impact the nature of the sport.

I'm stumped.

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

50 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

At what point has anyone here asked "the rest of us" to pay for these athletes to make extra money?  No one, and I mean no one, is proposing they get a salary from the school and thus tax funds.  Making money off of one's likeness in their spare time isn't asking you to pay for a dang thing.  If you choose to buy an autograph or something, then it's a choice you are making as a consumer.

I am  paying.  I am paying for  dorms, food, tutors and health insurance for athletics in tuition.   I'm jumping to conclusions here,  but you must not  have kids that are college age today.  If so I can see how it would be difficult to see it from that perspective.   I went from middle class to a situation as bad as a lot of athletes overnight because I have to pay so much for tuition. I've  down sized everything. My son and I still have to take on debt. 

 My son had to work through high  school (still has to work while at school),  and retirement for me has been pushed back at least a decade. It will be 10 years before I get back to my normal lifestyle.  and 10 years before my son is debt free.  He is a kid hat did it right.  Top grades, top test scores,  Played football, baseball and band.  volunteered,  had a job,  was a leader among  his peers, and  stayed out of trouble.  Please explain to me why all  my son's working wages go to tuition that is so high because they are paying for athletes food etc.  IF the athlete can make money on the side,  then they should pay for their own high quality food.  Not my son.

 

Let the athlete work and make money,  but make them compete for the same scholarship and loans based on the same criteria as everyone else.  Let them pay the same fees and meal ticket thing.  When that happens they should be allowed to make as much as they want. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

I am  paying.  I am paying for  dorms, food, tutors and health insurance for athletics in tuition.   I'm jumping to conclusions here,  but you must not  have kids that are college age today.  If so I can see how it would be difficult to see it from that perspective.   I went from middle class to a situation as bad as a lot of athletes overnight because I have to pay so much for tuition. I've  down sized everything. My son and I still have to take on debt. 

 My son had to work through high  school (still has to work while at school),  and retirement for me has been pushed back at least a decade. It will be 10 years before I get back to my normal lifestyle.  and 10 years before my son is debt free.  He is a kid hat did it right.  Top grades, top test scores,  Played football, baseball and band.  volunteered,  had a job,  was a leader among  his peers, and  stayed out of trouble.  Please explain to me why all  my son's working wages go to tuition that is so high because they are paying for athletes food etc.  IF the athlete can make money on the side,  then they should pay for their own high quality food.  Not my son.

Let the athlete work and make money,  but make them compete for the same scholarship and loans based on the same criteria as everyone else.  Let them pay the same fees and meal ticket thing.  When that happens they should be allowed to make as much as they want. 

Auburn's football program brought in $61 million in profit in 2017. You sure you're paying for their food?

Also, does "everyone else" commit 40+ hours a week- much of it very physically taxing- to the school to keep their scholarship? In addition to their studies?

All due respect, your stance seems more about emotion- very understandable- than logic. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

16 minutes ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

I am  paying.  I am paying for  dorms, food, tutors and health insurance for athletics in tuition.   I'm jumping to conclusions here,  but you must not  have kids that are college age today.  If so I can see how it would be difficult to see it from that perspective.   I went from middle class to a situation as bad as a lot of athletes overnight because I have to pay so much for tuition. I've  down sized everything. My son and I still have to take on debt. 

 My son had to work through high  school (still has to work while at school),  and retirement for me has been pushed back at least a decade. It will be 10 years before I get back to my normal lifestyle.  and 10 years before my son is debt free.  He is a kid hat did it right.  Top grades, top test scores,  Played football, baseball and band.  volunteered,  had a job,  was a leader among  his peers, and  stayed out of trouble.  Please explain to me why all  my son's working wages go to tuition that is so high because they are paying for athletes food etc.  IF the athlete can make money on the side,  then they should pay for their own high quality food.  Not my son.

 

Let the athlete work and make money,  but make them compete for the same scholarship and loans based on the same criteria as everyone else.  Let them pay the same fees and meal ticket thing.  When that happens they should be allowed to make as much as they want. 

I'm glad your son is getting a good education, but nothing of what you said is relevant to the debate at hand.  You are correct in that I don't have kids.  However, I took on my own student debt and worked my way through college for a Bachelor's and a Master's.  Went to class, participated in extra-ciricular stuff on campus, and worked nearly 40 hours a week.  While interning, I literally went to class, drove to Montgomery in the afternoon, worked until 11 at night for free, then went back to Auburn to study, sleep, and do it all again the next day.

But you know what makes those athletes different from me and your son?  They bring money into the university.  Auburn football turns a large profit.  My Associated Press journalism award in college didn't bring in a nickel.  See the difference?

I also think you are unfairly laying cost of tuition at the feet of athletics.  Blame your state legislature for constantly cutting funding to higher education.  That's one of the biggest culprits behind the rising costs at AU.  Also, all of those new dorms, academic buildings, etc that have gone up in the last 10-15 years have all benefited the entire student body.  They cost money to build.  Campus is a whole lot nicer and safer today than when I graduated 15 years ago.

[cole256 17,084]

54 minutes ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

I'd like to hear more about all these top guys that made it to the NFL without a college platform to showcase their skills.   

Football is a little different but basketball you can rattle off. But top guys can make 6 figures off YouTube all on their own from their views generated

[cole256 17,084]

It seems some are jealous of the fact that the athlete is an athlete

[McLoofus 35,182]

29 minutes ago, cole256 said:

It seems some are jealous of the fact that the athlete is an athlete

I don't know how much it factors into any particular argument in this thread but man that is so painfully obvious in so many conversations about this, and athletes in general, and celebrities in general.

[WDE427 72]

21 hours ago, AU_Tiger_88 said:

I am in the not pay them crowd.  However, if you do end up paying student athletes, then I would insist that they have to actually qualify for the institution that they are enrolling in.  they have to meet at least the same scores that the average student coming in meet.  Why?  Because if you are looking at fairness let's start there.  If we are saying that these kids should be paid etc then they become professionals at an amateur institution and the institution actually would make more money off of the regular student that is paying their own way.  

I personally am not opposed to gaining something from your likeness but do not wear university gear in that commercial, signing, etc...why?  because they are not a licensed entity like the university or they should pay a piece back to the university that goes to pay for scholarships.

 

If we go down this road then there should be a farm league put up by the NFL as mentioned before and keep the college experience the same for those that want to go the college route and enjoy that experience.  My wife and I had to pay our way through college and it was tough to accomplish.  Neither of us had family help as we weren't wealthy.  We worked our buts off to get Aid & scholarships to offset costs.  Tough to work 40 hour a week job and go to school full time but it can be done. 

Agree. What happens if a kids does not perform up to the expectations on the field? Will it end up costing the same amount as a pro game to watch? ( I know some are already). I am not too savvy on the scholarship degrees of what they can/can not choose. The reason I say that because I seen where someone was talking about “useless degrees”, are they not allowed to pick a better degree?

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

Football is a little different but basketball you can rattle off. But top guys can make 6 figures off YouTube all on their own from their views generated

top guys without a college attached to their name at some point?  IF they are making 6 figures why would they need a scholarship to begin with?  Why don't all the top players do this skip school and go straight to the NBA?  Seems like an easy way to get rich while waiting to get rich.

 

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Auburn's football program brought in $61 million in profit in 2017. You sure you're paying for their food?

Yes,  That is the whole reason for the forced meal plan Students are FORCED to purchase whether they eat on campus or not. Any money left on the meal ticket must be given up,  and you have to buy another meal ticket every year. As said in an earlier post that money funds the wellness center. Where meals cost $10 to $20.for non athletes.  but athletes can eat for free.  This isn't a big deal, but if athletes are also getting paid,  why cant they use their earnings for their food and housing and tuition like every other student that HAS to work to eat? 

Also, does "everyone else" commit 40+ hours a week- much of it very physically taxing- to the school to keep their scholarship? In addition to their studies?

Yes,  They work flipping burgers in a greasy restaurant  to pay for tuition.  Then they have to work years to pay off the loans they had to take out.    Auburn football players are getting paid 1/4 of a million dollars over 4 years for their 40 hour extra work week.  That is why they get the big full ride scholarships.    BTW    if they work 40 hours per week,  EVERY week, for 52 weeks,  they are making $27.65 per hour. toward tuition. I would think any student would love that kind of pay to put toward tuition.  40 extra hours or not.  

All due respect, your stance seems more about emotion- very understandable- than logic. 

Emotion has  nothing to do with it.  There is a problem with student debt in this country.     The rising cost of tuition isn't helping.. I am all for Athletes getting the free food, housing books, tuition,  but that is WAY more than a lot of more deserving students get.    Let them work,  make them compete for the same scholarships.  Or ...they can just take their scholarships and have almost everything they need paid for and their "job"  is their sport. 

[cole256 17,084]

2 minutes ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

top guys without a college attached to their name at some point?  IF they are making 6 figures why would they need a scholarship to begin with?  Why don't all the top players do this skip school and go straight to the NBA?  Seems like an easy way to get rich while waiting to get rich.

 

Emotion has  nothing to do with it.  There is a problem with student debt in this country.     The rising cost of tuition isn't helping.. I am all for Athletes getting the free food, housing books, tuition,  but that is WAY more than a lot of more deserving students get.    Let them work,  make them compete for the same scholarships.  Or ...they can just take their scholarships and have almost everything they need paid for and their "job"  is their sport. 

Top players would skip if they weren't made to play a year.....another stupid rule but you don't do it because if you do you can't play, but yeah you're right it is weird to stop a guy from making money if he can isn't it?

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

4 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Top players would skip if they weren't made to play a year.....another stupid rule but you don't do it because if you do you can't play, but yeah you're right it is weird to stop a guy from making money if he can isn't it?

I agree they would,  and it is a stupid rule.  Top guys may skip if they were not made to play, but marketing your skills is not enough to draw attention anymore they will still need th enational spotlight and endorsement of a respectable association like a college,  or the odds are stacked against them.    

[cole256 17,084]

38 minutes ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

I agree they would,  and it is a stupid rule.  Top guys may skip if they were not made to play, but marketing your skills is not enough to draw attention anymore they will still need th enational spotlight and endorsement of a respectable association like a college,  or the odds are stacked against them.    

Not the same anymore. Now it's when the guy come to the college the college gets the pub. Especially basketball. 

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

21 hours ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

LMAO!  my wife just said athletes should be paid out of the coaches salaries.  

I said years ago when Bama threw that amount of money at Saban that it would be bad for the game.

[CR 2,446]

Why do so many people resent the players we all cheer for every Saturday? And if AU fielded a team with only players who "loved" Auburn, we would get drilled 50 to 0 most games. The guys we all like to watch have options to go most anywhere they wish. I'm thankful they choose AU.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

5 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Auburn's football program brought in $61 million in profit in 2017. You sure you're paying for their food?

Also, does "everyone else" commit 40+ hours a week- much of it very physically taxing- to the school to keep their scholarship? In addition to their studies?

All due respect, your stance seems more about emotion- very understandable- than logic. 

Then the answer is simple. Remove all other sports from Auburn University and remove all tuition fees and academic money that goes toward athletics which was 7.6 million. Also pull the mandatory meal plan charges or let them roll over vs tossing it into the Wellness Kitchen funds. You now have 40 million plus to pay players.

Want to go the business route and pay players with athletic earned money then go for it, but I want contracts, fines, taxes (believe Pete Rose took it hard for tax evasion involving signing autographs for money) etc just like the real world. I would also end scholarships if we are paying them. Like the real world let their value on the field determine how much they make then. They are either good enough to afford everything or they aren't. Then they can take out loans, get a summer job, if they need to. If the university wants to pay them more then up the price of donor levels, tickets, concessions, parking, merchandise etc.

Just don't touch academic/tuition money unless it is a student purchasing tickets (though I have always felt students should get free tickets.. the no students, no university, no university athletics).

 

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

50 minutes ago, CR said:

Why do so many people resent the players we all cheer for every Saturday? And if AU fielded a team with only players who "loved" Auburn, we would get drilled 50 to 0 most games. The guys we all like to watch have options to go most anywhere they wish. I'm thankful they choose AU.

Nobody resents them, but it will reach a point to where you will have to pick between athletics and academics. Many universities are already pulling money from students and the states they reside in to keep programs running, and I don't believe that will just end if they start paying players. It will increase.

What choice would you make for your child if they wanted to go to Auburn and already needed financial aid to do so. Then you found out that 2k of every semester was going to an athletic fund. So by graduation 16k of your tuition money had gone to pay/support athletes. Then you have a South Alabama that has given up and just lives within the means of its athletic budget so no athletic fees and tuition is already about 3k cheaper than Auburn as is. Where are people gonna send their kid?

I also believe under current rules you will have basically 4 game in free agency. Mean we have to pay people to make sure they make it to class commitments, you really think they are gonna stick around if 4 games in someone says hey we will pay you more. Nope, they are gonna quit and hit that transfer portal. Not even half way through a season and you could lose your top 2 Qb's. Like you said, they don't all love Auburn.