‘This Is Not Saigon. This Is Worse Than Saigon.’

[SaturdayGT 719]

11 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Nope! 

Well to some degree. For one, I can appreciate that he got the ball rolling on ending this bull**** war. On the other hand, he did leave Biden something of a mess to figure out given how long he delayed the transition along with allowing Miller to wreck the SIV system. 

How much did Biden play in his VP role involving Afghanistan before Trump got in?

[AUDub 11,153]

21 minutes ago, SaturdayGT said:

How much did Biden play in his VP role involving Afghanistan before Trump got in?

Biden had a history of being hawkish, voting for both of W's invasions.

Believe it or not, he whiplashed hard when he entered the Whitehouse and was actually against escalating the War in Afghanistan. He's wanted out for a while, but he didn't have Obama's ear on the matter like the military brass did. Robert Gates spoke of how much he hated him in his memoir. 

[SaturdayGT 719]

3 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Biden had a history of being hawkish, voting for both of W's invasions.

Believe it or not, he whiplashed hard when he entered the Whitehouse and was actually against escalating the War in Afghanistan. He's wanted out for a while, but he didn't have Obama's ear on the matter like the military brass did. Robert Gates spoke of how much he hated him in his memoir. 

I think most political people wanted out of it, that's sort of established....We basically dictated  the area until this....we had any exit strategy we wanted!!.......aaaaand......WTF?.....

[AUDub 11,153]

1 minute ago, SaturdayGT said:

I think most political people wanted out of it, that's sort of established....We basically dictated  the area until this....we had any exit strategy we wanted!!.......aaaaand......WTF?.....

We drew down per our agreement with the Taliban. This is the Doha Accord Pompeo negotiated last year. 

[SaturdayGT 719]

You are definitely answering fairly,...I work a ton, so I celebrate accordingly! Lol..thanks for the insights and how you perceive things!

 

[AU9377 4,967]

4 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

Of course it does especially inside an Airport in Kabul, that is the very point 78 has been trying to make and that I made a while back. You keep Bagram Airbase open the fact that it is far away makes it more defensible because you can use airpower if bad people approach. Kabul Airport is surrounded by innocent people which prevents you from using airpower, and for having an open perimeter where you can concentrate fire if needed. US airpower is not very useful inside a city unless you don't care about collateral damage (killing innocent people).  

At least two months before final planned evacuation date you contact all the Americans and give them certain dates and certain evacuation points where you can get them and bring them to Bagram airbase for flying out.  You give them a few dates where they can be picked up and you give them a final date.  The Afghan army did not disappear until American Air Power had left the country. You do the same type thing with Afghan nationals.  Pickup points required dates to be picked up.  Yes there would have been some that thought they could ride it out but no place near the numbers that we were faced with when the WH did not plan the evacuation. The lack of a planned exit strategy led to Americans and Afghan nationals being trapped with no ability to get to the airport and puts the soldiers inside the airport as a much higher risk because you have handcuffed them by placing them in an area where they can't take advantage of superior weapons and firepower.

The Kabul airport is an indefensible area with no clear field of fire because of the mass of people at the gates it makes our brave soldiers sitting ducks. What we are seeing now is do to the total lack of planning.  What we saw today means anybody defending the WH has a political agenda and is not looking at the facts on the ground.

We will have taken 100,000 out of that hell hole of humanity.  Is that not enough?  We don't have a duty to provide a better life to every Afghan that wants one.  After all, they could have fought for one where they were and chose not to.

[jj3jordan 2,056]

9 hours ago, AU9377 said:

We will have taken 100,000 out of that hell hole of humanity.  Is that not enough?  We don't have a duty to provide a better life to every Afghan that wants one.  After all, they could have fought for one where they were and chose not to.

Our primary concern is for the americans in country and the indigenous personnel who have assisted us for years. At present it appears we are unable to safely evacuate our citizens and are tacitly abandoning the locals who assisted us. Add to that the loss of Isoprep cards to the taliban and we are complicit in 10k-15k death penalties of personnel we promised to protect. Nobody expects us to relocate a bunch of goat humpers just because.

[homersapien 11,388]

11 hours ago, AU9377 said:

We will have taken 100,000 out of that hell hole of humanity.  Is that not enough?  We don't have a duty to provide a better life to every Afghan that wants one.  After all, they could have fought for one where they were and chose not to.

It doesn't matter if we were mistaken being there.  We were there. 

And we asked these people to help us and they did.  Their "choice" to do so came with a lot of risk they could have avoided.  Our obligation to reciprocate starts there.

They are courageous people and would make good Americans.

Edited August 27, 2021 by homersapien

[AU9377 4,967]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

It doesn't matter if we were mistaken being there.  We were there. 

And we asked these people to help us and they did.  Their "choice" to do so came with a lot of risk they could have avoided.  Our obligation to reciprocate starts there.

They are courageous people and would make good Americans.

That can't include 200,000 people.  We were there legitimately.  The country they live in had given safe harbor to those that attacked us.  I am not against assisting refugees that have assisted our efforts.  That number simply cannot include anyone who wishes to leave.  We are showing incredible kindness by having now taken over 100,000 out of the country.  No other empire on the face of the planet has ever done that in a similar situation.

[AU9377 4,967]

3 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Our primary concern is for the americans in country and the indigenous personnel who have assisted us for years. At present it appears we are unable to safely evacuate our citizens and are tacitly abandoning the locals who assisted us. Add to that the loss of Isoprep cards to the taliban and we are complicit in 10k-15k death penalties of personnel we promised to protect. Nobody expects us to relocate a bunch of goat humpers just because.

So who do you think has been part of the over 100,000 we have assisted in leaving so far?  Do tell.

[AU9377 4,967]

14 hours ago, AUDub said:

Biden had a history of being hawkish, voting for both of W's invasions.

Believe it or not, he whiplashed hard when he entered the Whitehouse and was actually against escalating the War in Afghanistan. He's wanted out for a while, but he didn't have Obama's ear on the matter like the military brass did. Robert Gates spoke of how much he hated him in his memoir. 

That is true.  Most hard right folks won't admit it, but Obama actually followed the George W. foreign policy fairly closely.  The military liked a lot of his decisions.