Honest Question: 19-21 Record in SEC Play

[TitanTiger 20,542]

13 minutes ago, smackydoodle said:

So going on the "everyone was doing it" .... what did HF accomplish with it? A 10 win season that includes losses to unraked Memphis and unranked Arkansas.

By year four he took a program that hadn't won a conference game in two straight seasons to a 10 win season and within a fluke 4th and 25 play of playing in the SEC title game.  I don't think people appreciate how hard it is to do that at a place like Ole Miss.

Also, that Memphis team went 9-4 that year and was ranked as high as 13th at one point.  Arkansas was 8-5 and won 6 of their last 7 games, including beating us, Ole Miss and 9th ranked LSU (the latter two both on the road).  Neither of those teams were pushovers and the Arkansas game they lost by a fluke.

[TitanTiger 20,542]

3 minutes ago, gr82b4au said:

His record was the reason why I did not want him. Or Lane. 
But you cannot deny that the turn around for Arkansas state, Ole Miss, and liberty were pretty amazing. 
The question I have is, can he do it quickly at Auburn? Because our roster is not good. And can he still recruit?

Couldn't be much worse than the OM team he inherited.  That program hadn't won an SEC game in 2 seasons prior to him arriving and went 4-8 and 2-10 overall in those years.  That was a total crap roster and he didn't have the transfer portal to help.

[smackydoodle 200]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

By year four he took a program that hadn't won a conference game in two straight seasons to a 10 win season and within a fluke 4th and 25 play of playing in the SEC title game.  I don't think people appreciate how hard it is to do that at a place like Ole Miss.

Also, that Memphis team went 9-4 that year and was ranked as high as 13th at one point.  Arkansas was 8-5 and won 6 of their last 7 games, including beating us, Ole Miss and 9th ranked LSU (the latter two both on the road).  Neither of those teams were pushovers and the Arkansas game they lost by a fluke.

If we're going on moral victories, then I agree, he's had a hell of run.

[smackydoodle 200]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Couldn't be much worse than the OM team he inherited.  That program hadn't won an SEC game in 2 seasons prior to him arriving and went 4-8 and 2-10 overall in those years.  That was a total crap roster and he didn't have the transfer portal to help.

Why do you always exclude the two years they won 9 games during Nutt's tenure before Freeze?

[Mims44 1,896]

3 hours ago, Tampa Tiger said:

I've tried to have some honest discussions on a Facebook group full of sunshine pumpers, but everyone just thinks it's a great hire, etc. 

I'm really trying to understand with honest discussion (without discussing his past off the field baggage, call him Coaching Candidate X), why I should be excited about a guy that went 19-21 in the SEC and just one 10th, and two 17th AP finishes?  

I think it's a better hire than our last one, since I at least know who HF is and didn't have to google his name.

I'm tryna be positive about it, but I really thought when we let go of Gus for being slightly above average it was because AU was ready to pull out all the stops and do something huge. Not something Hugh  

[TitanTiger 20,542]

2 minutes ago, smackydoodle said:

If we're going on moral victories, then I agree, he's had a hell of run.

Those aren't moral victories.  It's probably the ceiling for that program.  

But I'm not going to sit here all day trying to convince those who don't want to be.  

[TitanTiger 20,542]

2 minutes ago, smackydoodle said:

Why do you always exclude the two years they won 9 games during Nutt's tenure before Freeze?

Because that's not the team he inherited.  The wheels had come off and the program was in a death spiral.  Whatever Nutt achieved before, the plain fact of the matter is they went 4-8 in 2010 and 2-10 in 2011.  They went 0-8 both years in the SEC.  On what planet, given those facts, would success three years ago be relevant?

[icanthearyou 4,464]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

But it doesn't change that the accomplishment was real.

Actually, it does.  Cheating and winning are not the same thing.

[TitanTiger 20,542]

Just now, icanthearyou said:

Actually, it does.  Cheating and winning are not the same thing.

By which we say "cheating" when we actually mean "doing the exact same things all his SEC rivals were doing to find success."  Ok.

[Warnugget 127]

4 minutes ago, smackydoodle said:

Why do you always exclude the two years they won 9 games during Nutt's tenure before Freeze?

Because nobody is talking about why we should hire Houston Nutt. We’re talking about what Freeze did at Ole Miss after what he inherited. If HF had started at Ole Miss 2 years earlier then this would be a relevant conversation. As it stands, he inherited a team that hadn’t won an SEC game in 2 years. 

[msza 228]

3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

By which we say "cheating" when we actually mean "doing the exact same things all his SEC rivals were doing to find success."  Ok.

I promise I'm not being snarky but is there tangible evidence that all of his SEC rivals were also violating the same NCAA clauses he was? Was Auburn doing this also?

[Warnugget 127]

5 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Actually, it does.  Cheating and winning are not the same thing.

Nobody has said that it does. Are you implying that cheating can never lead to winning? I would argue that winning is usually the main goal, when cheating is involved. 

[TitanTiger 20,542]

Just now, msza said:

I promise I'm not being snarky but is there tangible evidence that all of his SEC rivals were also violating the same NCAA clauses he was?

You want documentation that all the major teams in college football prior to NIL were paying players?  Is this a serious question?

 

Just now, msza said:

Was Auburn doing this also?

Yes.

[icanthearyou 4,464]

5 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

By which we say "cheating" when we actually mean "doing the exact same things all his SEC rivals were doing to find success."  Ok.

No, as a matter of fact, that is not what was happening at all.  Buy hey, rationalize and justify all you care to.  But please, don't tell me I didn't see what I clearly saw.

[TitanTiger 20,542]

Just now, icanthearyou said:

No, as a matter of fact, that is not what was happening at all.  Buy hey, rationalize and justify all you care to.  But please, don't tell me I didn't see what I clearly saw.

Ok.  My time is valuable.  Have a good one.

[icanthearyou 4,464]

2 minutes ago, Warnugget said:

Nobody has said that it does. Are you implying that cheating can never lead to winning? I would argue that winning is usually the main goal, when cheating is involved. 

Then by all means, lie, cheat, steal as much as you possibly can.

[msza 228]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

You want documentation that all the major teams in college football prior to NIL were paying players?  Is this a serious question?

 

Yes.

If it's a serious accusation, then yes it's a serious question.

[Warnugget 127]

1 minute ago, icanthearyou said:

No, as a matter of fact, that is not what was happening at all.  Buy hey, rationalize and justify all you care to.  But please, don't tell me I didn't see what I clearly saw.

Cool. You don’t believe that other SEC teams gave impermissible benefits to their players. You’re definitely entitled to that opinion. 

[Warnugget 127]

1 minute ago, icanthearyou said:

Then by all means, lie, cheat, steal as much as you possibly can.

Again, nobody is saying this. You’re literally inventing ideas to argue against. 😂

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

2 hours ago, fasttimes said:

not kidding myself. i said "everyone is doing it". whats the difference between everyone else and freeze? and is that difference significant/important?

The difference?  They didn't have Houston Nutt (who the paying started under) suing and requesting phone records etc...People wouldn't have found out if not for Nutt and lawsuits.

[icanthearyou 4,464]

1 minute ago, Warnugget said:

Cool. You don’t believe that other SEC teams gave impermissible benefits to their players. You’re definitely entitled to that opinion. 

That is exactly the kind of rationale used by those with no principles.

[Warnugget 127]

3 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

That is exactly the kind of rationale used by those with no principles.

I just spent 5 minutes on a google search that gave me all the information I need. If it wasn’t so easy to find I’d post it for you. You’re obviously more interested in throwing your energy into blind hatred of our new HC, so I’ll just mute you and leave you to it. 😂

[alexava 6,973]

Our number one coach prospect was Kiffin. He has never won a game vs an sec team with a winning record. Freeze has a losing sec record.  We are Auburn. This is the best we can attract. Period. My hope is that his ability to recruit and develop QBs along with Auburn’s tradition will culminate to success. Between Harsin, now this guy is exactly why I wanted to keep Gus. We can’t do any better. Poof/pudding s***….

[icanthearyou 4,464]

Just now, Warnugget said:

Again, nobody is saying this. You’re literally inventing ideas to argue against. 😂

No, I am not.  Now, you are just lying.  There is no argument.  You either believe in doing what is right or, don't or, you employ situational ethics.

We have to hope that HF is going to do better or, we have to hope he is better at covering up his scandals.

I can only hope he is going to do better.  I am skeptical.

[smackydoodle 200]

14 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Because that's not the team he inherited.  The wheels had come off and the program was in a death spiral.  Whatever Nutt achieved before, the plain fact of the matter is they went 4-8 in 2010 and 2-10 in 2011.  They went 0-8 both years in the SEC.  On what planet, given those facts, would success three years ago be relevant?

Well, you were talking in historical terms and stopped at the two bad examples. People are wanting to act like HF accomplished something never before seen at Ole Miss, yet just two seasons before he was hired it happened.