Honest Question: 19-21 Record in SEC Play

[msza 228]

Just now, NWALA Tiger said:

Bro, people have been cheating for 50 years or longer. Surely u get that. Have I seen it with my own eyes. Dang sure have. AU wasn't involved in that particular  case

I fully understand that coaches at all levels violate the rules in a myriad of ways. That doesn't mean every coach has violated every rule that Hugh Freeze was found to have violated.

[msza 228]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

I didn't say that Gus or any specific head coach did anything.  I am saying that every major college football program, including Auburn, was doing the same s*** Ole Miss was when Hugh Freeze was there.  Maybe the head coach at a given program knows, maybe he doesn't.  Maybe the boosters are keeping it on the downlow better some places than others.  But it was happening absolutely.  The NCAA didn't find any actual evidence Freeze was committing these violations or that he actually knew about them.  I'd say the same is true most other places as well.  In other words, Ole Miss wasn't winning because they somehow gained an advantage their opponents didn't enjoy.

First of all, you said in defense of Hugh that he was "doing the exact same things all his SEC rivals were doing to find success." One cannot read this without coming to the conclusion that you are referring to Gus and every other SEC head coach at the time of Hugh's tenure at OM.

The first sentence in the report you quote above reads, "the head coach also violated NCAA head coach responsibility legislation because he failed to monitor his program's activities..."   This says in no uncertain terms that Hugh violated NCAA legislation. 

So when one puts it all together, you've accused Gus of violating the same NCAA rules that Hugh did.

 

[Zinzan 123]

55 minutes ago, smackydoodle said:

OP asked for discussions outside of sunshine pumpers regarding HF's record and here you are requesting we do the exact opposite.

You know what, you’re right. I focused on his last paragraph, and forgot the sentiment of his first paragraph, lol. 
 

carry on. 

[Hank2020 3,219]

3 minutes ago, msza said:

First of all, you said in defense of Hugh that he was "doing the exact same things all his SEC rivals were doing to find success." One cannot read this without coming to the conclusion that you are referring to Gus and every other SEC head coach at the time of Hugh's tenure at OM.

The first sentence in the report you quote above reads, "the head coach also violated NCAA head coach responsibility legislation because he failed to monitor his program's activities..."   This says in no uncertain terms that Hugh violated NCAA legislation. 

So when one puts it all together, you've accused Gus of violating the same NCAA rules that Hugh did.

 

You are not just “reaching” here, it takes a very long rope to ties these assumptions together,IMO.

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

21 minutes ago, msza said:

I fully understand that coaches at all levels violate the rules in a myriad of ways. That doesn't mean every coach has violated every rule that Hugh Freeze was found to have violated.

Correct,  some of them have violated more

[msza 228]

2 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

You are not just “reaching” here, it takes a very long rope to ties these assumptions together,IMO.

It's a very simple deduction.

[Warnugget 127]

5 minutes ago, msza said:

It's a very simple deduction.

“Simple” is a very fitting adjective here. 

[Hank2020 3,219]

7 minutes ago, msza said:

It's a very simple deduction.

You need Josh Nash and a lot if wall to get where you got. lol

[TitanTiger 20,531]

35 minutes ago, msza said:

First of all, you said in defense of Hugh that he was "doing the exact same things all his SEC rivals were doing to find success." One cannot read this without coming to the conclusion that you are referring to Gus and every other SEC head coach at the time of Hugh's tenure at OM.

The first sentence in the report you quote above reads, "the head coach also violated NCAA head coach responsibility legislation because he failed to monitor his program's activities..."   This says in no uncertain terms that Hugh violated NCAA legislation. 

So when one puts it all together, you've accused Gus of violating the same NCAA rules that Hugh did.

I have since clarified to make sure you understood what I was trying to convey.  Ole Miss under Hugh Freeze, was not doing anything that Alabama under Nick Saban, LSU under Les Miles, Auburn under Gus Malzahn, Georgia under Mark Richt, Ohio State under Urban Meyer, Oklahoma under Bob Stoops, FSU under Jimbo Fisher and so on were all doing.

So in the end, I am accusing Auburn of doing the same things that Ole Miss did at the time.

And the report says exactly what I told you it said - that Hugh himself did not commit the violations.  His violation was in not monitoring his program closely enough so that he would have known and discovered what some boosters and staff were up to.
 

[msza 228]

11 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I have since clarified to make sure you understood what I was trying to convey.  Ole Miss under Hugh Freeze, was not doing anything that Alabama under Nick Saban, LSU under Les Miles, Auburn under Gus Malzahn, Georgia under Mark Richt, Ohio State under Urban Meyer, Oklahoma under Bob Stoops, FSU under Jimbo Fisher and so on were all doing.

So in the end, I am accusing Auburn of doing the same things that Ole Miss did at the time.

And the report says exactly what I told you it said - that Hugh himself did not commit the violations.  His violation was in not monitoring his program closely enough so that he would have known and discovered what some boosters and staff were up to.
 

Thank you for the clarification. That brings me back to my original question: Do you have any tangible basis for your accusation that Gus and the others you mention violated NCAA legislation as Hugh did, or are you just assuming?

[TitanTiger 20,531]

3 minutes ago, msza said:

Thank you for the clarification. That brings me back to my original question: Do you have any tangible basis for your accusation that Gus and the others you mention violated NCAA legislation as Hugh did, or are you just assuming?

And that brings me back around to this response I had the last time you asked it:

I'll see your "is there tangible evidence of other schools cheating" and raise you an "is there tangible evidence that Hugh Freeze was involved in the cheating at Ole Miss or knew it was going on?" 

We can speculate on it I suppose, but if you wish to speculate on whether Freeze *really* knew what some of his assistants and boosters were really doing, then it shouldn't be too hard to do the same on how major college football operated in the modern age, prior to NIL.  If you don't wish to speculate on that latter, then you can't really be consistent and speculate on the former either.

You're certainly welcome to blithely believe that it was just happening there and the rest of the SEC wasn't doing things of the same nature.  I don't find it remotely plausible, but you do you.

 

[Sizzle 3,920]

1 hour ago, Warnugget said:

“Top 5 coach in all of CFB” is a huge stretch that nobody is implying. I do think that they’re very comparable as far as coaching ability goes. 

If OM is such a terrible program like everyone is saying then he has to be. If you can get such a terrible program like OM to 10 wins then the following year get that team to a top 10 ranking then he has to be.

I don’t think he’s a top rated coach either but going by posters logic on here he has to be

[Warnugget 127]

1 minute ago, Sizzle said:

If OM is such a terrible program like everyone is saying then he has to be. If you can get such a terrible program like OM to 10 wins then the following year get that team to a top 10 ranking then he has to be.

I don’t think he’s a top rated coach either but going by posters logic on here he has to be

So to be a top 5 overall coach you just have to take a bad team to 10 wins. Got it. Sorry, I had never heard of that rule before, but if it has to be, then it just has to be I guess. 

I would advise you to look into the fallacies of binary thinking before you start applying it to more important areas of your life. 

[msza 228]

8 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

And that brings me back around to this response I had the last time you asked it:

I'll see your "is there tangible evidence of other schools cheating" and raise you an "is there tangible evidence that Hugh Freeze was involved in the cheating at Ole Miss or knew it was going on?" 

We can speculate on it I suppose, but if you wish to speculate on whether Freeze *really* knew what some of his assistants and boosters were really doing, then it shouldn't be too hard to do the same on how major college football operated in the modern age, prior to NIL.  If you don't wish to speculate on that latter, then you can't really be consistent and speculate on the former either.

You're certainly welcome to blithely believe that it was just happening there and the rest of the SEC wasn't doing things of the same nature.  I don't find it remotely plausible, but you do you.

 

Thank you and yes of course you are welcome to make baseless accusations against others in an attempt to normalize Hugh's multiple violations.

[peashooter 22]

3 hours ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

Let me give you one important statistic . He beat Nick Saben in his prime at Alabama in back to back years. Almost unheard of. 🤔

Without those two games would he be the head coach?

[Warnugget 127]

3 minutes ago, peashooter said:

Without those two games would he be the head coach?

Who knows? I guess you would have to consult an alternate reality to find the answer to your question. Good luck with that. 

[TitanTiger 20,531]

3 minutes ago, peashooter said:

Without those two games would he be the head coach?

"If he hadn't won the games he won, would we think he's good" is an odd way to look at it.

[peashooter 22]

6 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

"If he hadn't won the games he won, would we think he's good" is an odd way to look at it.

It was about 2 games. 

[JerryAU 1,690]

3 hours ago, smackydoodle said:

Why do you always exclude the two years they won 9 games during Nutt's tenure before Freeze?

I remember those "Back-to-Back Cotton Bowl's" Hootie racked up at OM.  😆

[TitanTiger 20,531]

20 minutes ago, peashooter said:

It was about 2 games. 

Two games that actually happened and matter in the grand scheme of things.  I don't know why you think that's a point to ponder.  For all coaches, when you evaluate them, you look at their record overall, but you also look at whether they only beat up on sorry teams and lost to all the better teams they played, or could they go toe to toe with the big boys.  I guess I just don't understand the point.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 
 

[mcgufcm 4,107]

54 minutes ago, msza said:

Thank you and yes of course you are welcome to make baseless accusations against others in an attempt to normalize Hugh's multiple violations.

He didn't have multiple violations. Hugh Freeze had one violation for failure to monitor his staff. Nothing else.

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

1 hour ago, peashooter said:

Without those two games would he be the head coach?

Yes. He has proven to be one of the best offensive minds in college football and does well at recruiting as well as player development . But we haven’t had a coach that could beat NS back to back in quite a while . In fact no one in the SEC has beat him twice back to back. I agree with Cohen, Freeze was hands down the best coach for Auburn at the moment . 🤔

[bishoptf 699]

26 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Two games that actually happened and matter in the grand scheme of things.  I don't know why you think that's a point to ponder.  For all coaches, when you evaluate them, you look at their record overall, but you also look at whether they only beat up on sorry teams and lost to all the better teams they played, or could they go toe to toe with the big boys.  I guess I just don't understand the point.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 
 

Eh at this point @TitanTigerI'm not sure there is anything left to day, haters going to hate etc...I know, I know he is a bad person etc...I'm not sure there is anything that anyone is going to say to change anyone's mind. I think he has shown that he has made changes, NO one and I mean NO one knows who may be the next great coach...everyone thinks they know but yearly turnover in the NCAAF tell me otherwise.  AU made their choice and I am sure a lot of consideration went into it, IMHO you can either get on board and support the kids and staff or not...I choose to support the new coach until he does something otherwise to lose that support, I supported the Harsin hire and hoped it worked out even though I had my doubts. I will do the same for Coach Freeze and hope for Auburn and the players that it works out like Coach Pearl worked out and he had baggage also and look what he has done so far...:)

 

[msza 228]

14 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

He didn't have multiple violations. Hugh Freeze had one violation for failure to monitor his staff. Nothing else.

You're right, one violation for him for failing to oversee a program that got hit with 15 Level 1 violations. 

And now that he's showed up to AU an admin on this site is baselessly accusing others including our own former HC Gus of the same poor conduct.

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

"If he hadn't won the games he won, would we think he's good" is an odd way to look at it.

Agreed. Look at Hughs overall record and I doubt you find better. Are we going to say Nick Saban isn’t really good because he lost to Louisiana Monroe his first year? No. And we can’t Judge Hugh’s first year at OM where he inherited a really bad team. When you look at wins and losses it has to include who those wins and losses came from and what his team looked like when he came in. Hugh can and has made teams better . Also Hugh Freeze wasn’t hit with any penalties , in fact they said he run his program well. Most of the stuff was on Nutt. Did Hugh make a personal mistake yes. But he doesn’t owe anyone other than his family an apology and making it up to them. Nuff said.