arein0 977 Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 Former Senator Bill Frist wrote this article for Forbes on what he thinks needs to be implemented to help prevent deaths from firearms. https://www.forbes.com/sites/billfrist/2023/05/03/the-massive-new-public-health-threat-to-kids-what-policies-would-you-consider-to-address-gun-safety/?sh=7d0349915674 The Massive New Public Health Threat To Kids: What Policies Would You Consider To Address Gun Safety? Bill Frist Contributor I cover global and domestic health care and health care reform. On Monday March 27th, Nashville was forever changed. Six people, including three nine-year old children, died in a mass shooting at The Covenant School. Since then, I have been asked repeatedly: what can we do to keep this from happening again? At the time, I didn’t have an answer. But since then, I’ve been studying, asking questions, and listening, and I’ve been working to find commonsense policy responses that we might all consider, recognizing that there is no single point solution and that each of us views the highly charged issue of gun safety from a different, frequently contrasting perspective. What we can do now, and as responsible citizens really should do, is at least consider what options might be on the table to bring us together around the absolute goal of the safety and security of our children and families. I am a gun owner and a hunter. I have always and will continue to strongly support Second Amendment rights. I had a 12-year Senate career where I consistently backed responsible gun ownership. But times are different today – misuse of guns has grown much worse, substantially worse – with markedly more death and tragedy in our neighborhoods, than even a decade ago. This demands a fresh look, free of past biases and partisan tones which have ruled so much of our earlier discussions and debate. These honest revaluations should be carried out in local communities, in homes and at schools, civic gatherings, and places of faith, and likely will include changes in the larger policy framework in response to these new tragic realities. Firearms are the leading cause of death for [+] KAISER FAMILY FOUNDATION Yes, over the last decade, deaths from firearms has grown into an official public health crisis. The facts are stark: Now, according to the latest CDC data, firearms are the leading cause of death for children and teens in America. In 2020, gun deaths reached the highest number ever recorded in the United States, killing over 45,000 Americans (a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from 10 years prior). And in 2021, we surpassed the 2020 record with nearly 49,000 gun deaths nationwide. My personal bias in viewing gun safety as the major public health threat it has now become is colored by my life both as a practicing physician and as a federal public health policy maker. I honestly believe we have an opportunity to depoliticize and more civilly and rationally respond to this fundamental, growing disease tearing at our social fabric. Our path forward will not be easy: it will require a substantive shift in our culture and will challenge our priorities. And, ultimately, there is no single law or policy that will eliminate gun violence in America. However, there are many small steps that, when taken together, can make a major difference. Two weeks ago I joined with Vanderbilt orthopaedic trauma surgeon Dr. Alex Jahangir and Woodmont Christian Church senior minister Rev. Dr. Clay Stauffer in outlining four bipartisan policies Tennessee lawmakers could unite behind to reduce gun-related deaths in our state. This piece builds on those suggestions, and shares information on seven additional policies that warrant consideration, presented as an illustration of some of the tools that states and governments nationwide are adopting in response to this public health crisis of firearm violence and deaths: 1. Enact extreme risk protection order (ERPO) laws. Nineteen states have enacted them, with early evidence indicating that ERPOs reduce suicide deaths. These types of laws allow family members, physicians, or law enforcement to petition a court to issue a temporary confiscation of firearms and a temporary bar from purchasing firearms when individuals are posing a threat to themselves or others. Currently, Tennessee has no such law in place. Just released today, a Vanderbilt University survey conducted by the Center for the Study of Democratic Institutions reveals that 75% of sampled registered voters in Tennessee strongly support or somewhat support such “red flag” laws that temporarily restrict access to guns for individuals who are at high risk of harming themselves or others, as a way to prevent school shootings. And the Vanderbilt researchers noted that even 67% of those who identified themselves as National Rifle Association (NRA) supporters were somewhat or strongly in favor of such laws as a school shooting preventive tool. New Vanderbilt statewide poll of Tennessee voters, [+] VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS 2. Implement child-access prevention and safe storage laws. Promoting safe and responsible storage of firearms is both prudent and effective. Child-access prevention laws impose penalties on adults that allow children unsupervised, unsecured access to firearms, while safe storage laws generally require unattended firearms to be stored unloaded, in locked containers, or disabled with trigger locks, or both. A recent study conducted by RAND analyzed state gun laws and their relationship with gun fatalities over a period of 36 years (1980-2016), and found that the implementation of stringent laws pertaining to child access, such as mandating safe storage requirements for guns and ammunition, was associated with a 6% reduction in gun-related fatalities. A closer look at Nashville is revealing. Axios reports that more guns were stolen from cars in Nashville in 2022 than in any previous year. Stolen guns have been used in high profile crimes in Nashville. Metro government data show in 2022 that 1,952 guns were stolen, over 70% of which were stolen from vehicles. Safe storage considerations could make a difference. Today’s statewide Vanderbilt study shows broad support in Tennessee, with 67% of registered voters strongly or somewhat supporting laws that would require gun owners to securely store their firearms or face penalties for failing to do so. 3. Expand background checks to all firearm purchases. This might seem like common sense, but only fourteen states currently require background checks on all firearm purchases. Tennessee does not. In states without universal background checks, data indicate that those legally prohibited from purchasing weapons circumvent the system by obtaining firearms through private sales. States that have universal background checks in place, however, typically require a private gun sale to occur at a licensed dealer or designated law enforcement agency where a background check can be conducted. These universal background checks are a quick process – nine out of ten background checks are completed in a matter of minutes, and 99% of Americans live within ten miles of a federally licensed firearms dealer. Requiring background checks for all firearm transfers can reduce avenues for criminals to obtain guns and help bring to justice private sellers who knowingly and illegally supply individuals prohibited from owning guns. 4. Require firearms safety courses for ownership. Many of us grew up hunting with our parents and grandparents, with our first successful hunt a cultural rite of passage. And we know every hunter in Tennessee must complete a hunter education course before that first hunt. Indeed, as explained by the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency: “Tennessee’s Hunter Education program works. Since 1975, when a formal hunter education program was introduced, the number of hunting and firearm-related accidents in Tennessee has declined dramatically.” Given that this form of education has been shown to decrease the incidence of firearms injuries and accidental deaths, it seems logical to require education and training for firearms ownership. Such a requirement would enhance safety and could also provide an opportunity to identify individuals who have malicious intentions or who may be mentally unstable. 5. Expand who is restricted from purchasing or owning firearms. Under federal law, you are ineligible to purchase firearms in the U.S. if you: have a felony conviction; a conviction of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence against a spouse or partner, parent, or child; have been involuntarily committed or found to be mentally incompetent by a court of law; are using controlled substances; are in the U.S. illegally; are a fugitive from justice; or have been dishonorably discharged from the military. Some states have gone further, restricting gun possession by people convicted of elder abuse or misdemeanor charges of assault and battery, or are known to abuse alcohol. There are also some surprising categories of individuals who are not barred from buying guns, including those on the terrorist watch (Terrorist Screening Database) list. These are categories policymakers should consider. 6. Enhance school safety, including placing a school resource officer (SRO) at every school. This is an area Tennessee Governor Bill Lee has already demonstrated significant commitment toward, having increased funding for school safety since the start of his first term in 2019. On April 3rd, Governor Lee unveiled new school safety legislation in response to the Covenant School attack, with more funding, more officer training, more school security upgrades, and additional behavioral health liaisons. The plan includes funds for an armed security guard at every Tennessee public school. A statewide poll of over 1,000 Tennessee parents conducted in the fall of 2022 by the Vanderbilt Center for Child Health Policy found over 83% agreed schools are safer with one or more SRO present. 7. Ban high-capacity magazines and/or assault-style weapons. A previous federal, 10-year assault weapons ban established under President Clinton expired in 2004 while I was in the Senate. Two government-led studies of the ban published in 1999 and 2004 found mixed results of its impact — largely due to the findings that these types of weapons were relatively rarely used in gun violence nationally in those times. The studies also stated that it was also hard to discern impact because assault weapons and large capacity magazines produced prior to the federal ban were grandfathered, so a large number were still in circulation. While the horrific Columbine shooting occurred in 1999 during the ban, we did not see a continued trend of school shootings. Today, that has clearly changed. The past 20 years have been a period of mass, targeted marketing by gun manufacturers that has accelerated the growth and popularity of semi-automatic weapons. At least two-thirds of the AR-15s in circulation in the U.S. have been manufactured in the last decade. And it is estimated that one in 20 adults own an AR-15 today, a semi-automatic rifle that is a civilian version of the military M16 rifle which fires one round for each pull of the trigger, automatically reloading for the next shot, capable of firing 45 to 60 rounds a minute. This is an astounding figure, but underscores the cultural acceptance of those firearms today. Largely in response to the increase in violence using these firearms, nine states have implemented assault weapon bans of their own, and fourteen have banned high-capacity magazines. The most recent statewide survey reveals that in Tennessee right at 50% of registered voters support a ban on assault-style weapons to prevent school shootings (37% strongly support and 13% somewhat support). I recognize this is a highly politicized issue, but there are steps we can take to protect the Second Amendment and also protect our children’s lives. Constitutional issues and public health issues are not mutually exclusive. We know from shootings where high-capacity magazines are used, the death toll is much higher. The period when a mass shooter must pause to reload is a vital moment when he or she can be overpowered, and victims have the opportunity to escape. A recent study analyzing mass shootings between 1990 and 2017 found that attacks where high-capacity magazines were used resulted in a 62% higher death toll, and that these types of high-fatality shootings were twice as common in states that hadn’t outlawed these magazines. Banning large capacity magazines, generally those with more than 10 rounds of ammunition, can potentially take a tool away from would-be mass shooters. It’s clear from today’s data – especially the growing incidence of mass shooting events involving high-capacity magazines and assault weapons – that it’s time to consider a policy changes. 8. Fund research to better understand the drivers of gun violence. Here is where we can act immediately. We need more and better research and science-grounded information and studies to inform what we do. This can determine what works and what does not. In the past, our federal government has purposely (and wrongfully in my opinion) not funded gun safety and gun violence research. For over 20 years, a 1996 budget amendment pushed by the NRA prohibited it. Thankfully, this has begun to shift and in 2020 federal research funds, though minimal, began to flow again. The unfortunate, government-caused gap in fundamental safety knowledge has held back an informed response in policy, but now this can be rectified if we demonstrate broad public support for federal research. Beyond federal research to inform policy, we need better local understanding by each of us as individuals. This will require investing in understanding the health and firearm-related attitudes, culture, and behaviors within our own local communities, something we began to do in Nashville with a 2019 comprehensive health and wellness population survey – the first of its kind in nearly 20 years. Through discussions with over 1,800 respondents, we at NashvilleHealth discovered information about disease prevalence, health behaviors, mental health challenges, and gun ownership. The self-reported survey indicated 27% of Nashvillians kept firearms in their homes. Among the owners, 42% reported the guns loaded, with more than half describing their loaded firearms as unlocked and accessible. We learned that most respondents regarded their gun ownership and accessibility as a safety issue for themselves: 63% reported that they felt safer when they have firearms in their home or vehicles. These data alone don’t dictate specific policies by themselves, but they can serve as provocative, constructive starting points for personal and community conversations about firearm safety in our neighborhoods. I encourage all communities to conduct similar surveys to better understand their own more immediate environments. And statewide surveys such as that released by Vanderbilt today are also useful to encourage informed conversation. Tennessee Governor Bill Lee, who enjoys an approval rate over 80% among GOP registered voters and 53% among all voters (the highest of all elected officials polled), received support from 82% of registered voters for his recently signed executive order strengthening background checks. This broad support is something state legislators should consider when evaluating his call for an order of protection law, to be considered in a special session this summer. On April 11, in response to The Covenant School [+] VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY CENTER ON THE STUDY OF DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS 9. Raise the legal purchasing age. In Tennessee the legal age for purchasing all types of firearms is age 18. About a third of states have raised the purchasing age for handguns to 21, and some have also raised the purchasing age for semi-automatic weapons and assault rifles as well. Hawaii, for example, which boasts the lowest rate of gun ownership and gun death of all 50 states, limits legal gun sales to those 21 and older. Interestingly, there is substantial scientific evidence demonstrating that the frontal lobe of the brain, responsible for judgment and impulse control, is still developing at the adolescent stage into the mid-20s. That is one of the reasons the minimum rental age for cars is often set at 25 years old. A 2012 study by the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research found that in the U.S., 18- to 20-year olds were the age group most likely to commit homicides. Our nation has also seen a notable uptick in teenage suicide, an increase of 29% among adolescents ages 15 to 19 over the previous decade, and the latest data has found that guns were the most common method of suicide for Tennessee adolescents and teens, accounting for 65% of suicide deaths. 10. Make gunmakers liable for harm caused by their products and improve product safety. Right now, the firearms industry bears no liability for shootings, and thus has no financial incentive to make their products safer. Ironically, mass shootings actually increase firearms sales. What can be done to incentivize change? There are both high-tech and low-tech solutions gun manufacturers can add to their products to make them safer, including: chambered round indicators, magazine release safeties heavier trigger pulls, grip safeties, firing pin blocks, and now, the technology for “smart guns” is here. This includes guns that require biometric data like a fingerprint, a PIN, or phone app to unlock the weapon – making it inaccessible to minors and rendering it useless if stolen. The government can play a role in requiring the production of safer firearms, in the same way we have made cars safer with airbags, backup cameras, blind spot detection, and driving assistance. 11. Fund mental health. I list this one last not because it’s least important, but rather because it’s arguably the most complicated and hardest to solve for. Across the board, mental health is massively underfunded and undertreated in the U.S. Research has shown that only about 4% of community violence is attributable to severe mental disorders – meaning its impact is frequently misassumed and often simplistically overstated, and does not apply to the perpetrators of most gun crimes. We often hear that those who are mentally ill shouldn’t be able to purchase firearms, and indeed, those committing mass shootings are certainly mentally unwell. Unfortunately, there isn’t an easy way to check a person’s mental wellbeing during a background check. Only individuals who have been involuntarily committed to a mental hospital or declared mentally incompetent by a court or government body are required to be flagged to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). So, while many individuals who have committed mass shootings in recent years have histories of mental health problems – including it seems, Audrey Hale of Nashville – few if any have been involuntarily institutionalized and would show up on the NICS database. We know, for example, that both Hale and the Uvalde school shooter legally purchased their firearms through federally licensed firearms dealers, successfully passing background checks. Earlier mental health intervention is unquestionably important – not just to prevent mass shootings, but also to reduce the climbing rate of youth suicide, and to improve overall wellbeing. Unfortunately, as we know, our mental health system is broken and inadequately supported. It is imperative we follow through with sustained resources so that access and affordability are no longer barriers. I may favor reform of guns laws, but I am someone who also values gun ownership. I recognize that some of these suggestions will not appeal to many Tennesseans and many Americans. But I share them with a hope that they can be starting points for civil, informed conversations at a time when we know we must reverse the current trends of worsening gun violence. Lawmakers might be surprised how broadly supported so many of these ideas are – a new Fox News Poll found 87% of voters support universal background checks, 81% support raising the firearms purchasing age to 21, 80% support requiring a mental health check on gun buyers, and 80% supported allowing police to take guns from those considered a danger to themselves or others. All nations have criminals and the mentally ill, but only we have an epidemic of mass shootings, and we are failing our children. Now is the time to address the massive new public health threat to kids 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Massive New Public Health Threat To Kids: What Policies Would You Consider To Address Gun Safety? Bill Frist Contributor I cover global and domestic health care and health care reform. On Monday March 27th, Nashville was forever changed. Six people, including three nine-year old children, died in a mass shooting at The Covenant School. Since then, I have been asked repeatedly: what can we do to keep this from happening again? At the time, I didn’t have an answer. But since then, I’ve been studying, asking questions, and listening, and I’ve been working to find commonsense policy responses that we might all consider, recognizing that there is no single point solution and that each of us views the highly charged issue of gun safety from a different, frequently contrasting perspective. What we can do now, and as responsible citizens really should do, is at least consider what options might be on the table to bring us together around the absolute goal of the safety and security of our children and families. I am a gun owner and a hunter. I have always and will continue to strongly support Second Amendment rights. I had a 12-year Senate career where I consistently backed responsible gun ownership. But times are different today – misuse of guns has grown much worse, substantially worse – with markedly more death and tragedy in our neighborhoods, than even a decade ago. This demands a fresh look, free of past biases and partisan tones which have ruled so much of our earlier discussions and debate. These honest revaluations should be carried out in local communities, in homes and at schools, civic gatherings, and places of faith, and likely will include changes in the larger policy framework in response to these new tragic realities. Firearms are the leading cause of death for [+] KAISER FAMILY FOUNDATION Yes, over the last decade, deaths from firearms has grown into an official public health crisis. The facts are stark: Now, according to the latest CDC data, firearms are the leading cause of death for children and teens in America. In 2020, gun deaths reached the highest number ever recorded in the United States, killing over 45,000 Americans (a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from 10 years prior). And in 2021, we surpassed the 2020 record with nearly 49,000 gun deaths nationwide. My personal bias in viewing gun safety as the major public health threat it has now become is colored by my life both as a practicing physician and as a federal public health policy maker. I honestly believe we have an opportunity to depoliticize and more civilly and rationally respond to this fundamental, growing disease tearing at our social fabric. Our path forward will not be easy: it will require a substantive shift in our culture and will challenge our priorities. And, ultimately, there is no single law or policy that will eliminate gun violence in America. However, there are many small steps that, when taken together, can make a major difference. Two weeks ago I joined with Vanderbilt orthopaedic trauma surgeon Dr. Alex Jahangir and Woodmont Christian Church senior minister Rev. Dr. Clay Stauffer in outlining four bipartisan policies Tennessee lawmakers could unite behind to reduce gun-related deaths in our state. This piece builds on those suggestions, and shares information on seven additional policies that warrant consideration, presented as an illustration of some of the tools that states and governments nationwide are adopting in response to this public health crisis of firearm violence and deaths: 1. Enact extreme risk protection order (ERPO) laws. Nineteen states have enacted them, with early evidence indicating that ERPOs reduce suicide deaths. These types of laws allow family members, physicians, or law enforcement to petition a court to issue a temporary confiscation of firearms and a temporary bar from purchasing firearms when individuals are posing a threat to themselves or others. Currently, Tennessee has no such law in place. Just released today, a Vanderbilt University survey conducted by the Center for the Study of Democratic Institutions reveals that 75% of sampled registered voters in Tennessee strongly support or somewhat support such “red flag” laws that temporarily restrict access to guns for individuals who are at high risk of harming themselves or others, as a way to prevent school shootings. And the Vanderbilt researchers noted that even 67% of those who identified themselves as National Rifle Association (NRA) supporters were somewhat or strongly in favor of such laws as a school shooting preventive tool. New Vanderbilt statewide poll of Tennessee voters, [+] VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS 2. Implement child-access prevention and safe storage laws. Promoting safe and responsible storage of firearms is both prudent and effective. Child-access prevention laws impose penalties on adults that allow children unsupervised, unsecured access to firearms, while safe storage laws generally require unattended firearms to be stored unloaded, in locked containers, or disabled with trigger locks, or both. A recent study conducted by RAND analyzed state gun laws and their relationship with gun fatalities over a period of 36 years (1980-2016), and found that the implementation of stringent laws pertaining to child access, such as mandating safe storage requirements for guns and ammunition, was associated with a 6% reduction in gun-related fatalities. A closer look at Nashville is revealing. Axios reports that more guns were stolen from cars in Nashville in 2022 than in any previous year. Stolen guns have been used in high profile crimes in Nashville. Metro government data show in 2022 that 1,952 guns were stolen, over 70% of which were stolen from vehicles. Safe storage considerations could make a difference. Today’s statewide Vanderbilt study shows broad support in Tennessee, with 67% of registered voters strongly or somewhat supporting laws that would require gun owners to securely store their firearms or face penalties for failing to do so. 3. Expand background checks to all firearm purchases. This might seem like common sense, but only fourteen states currently require background checks on all firearm purchases. Tennessee does not. In states without universal background checks, data indicate that those legally prohibited from purchasing weapons circumvent the system by obtaining firearms through private sales. States that have universal background checks in place, however, typically require a private gun sale to occur at a licensed dealer or designated law enforcement agency where a background check can be conducted. These universal background checks are a quick process – nine out of ten background checks are completed in a matter of minutes, and 99% of Americans live within ten miles of a federally licensed firearms dealer. Requiring background checks for all firearm transfers can reduce avenues for criminals to obtain guns and help bring to justice private sellers who knowingly and illegally supply individuals prohibited from owning guns. 4. Require firearms safety courses for ownership. Many of us grew up hunting with our parents and grandparents, with our first successful hunt a cultural rite of passage. And we know every hunter in Tennessee must complete a hunter education course before that first hunt. Indeed, as explained by the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency: “Tennessee’s Hunter Education program works. Since 1975, when a formal hunter education program was introduced, the number of hunting and firearm-related accidents in Tennessee has declined dramatically.” Given that this form of education has been shown to decrease the incidence of firearms injuries and accidental deaths, it seems logical to require education and training for firearms ownership. Such a requirement would enhance safety and could also provide an opportunity to identify individuals who have malicious intentions or who may be mentally unstable. 5. Expand who is restricted from purchasing or owning firearms. Under federal law, you are ineligible to purchase firearms in the U.S. if you: have a felony conviction; a conviction of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence against a spouse or partner, parent, or child; have been involuntarily committed or found to be mentally incompetent by a court of law; are using controlled substances; are in the U.S. illegally; are a fugitive from justice; or have been dishonorably discharged from the military. Some states have gone further, restricting gun possession by people convicted of elder abuse or misdemeanor charges of assault and battery, or are known to abuse alcohol. There are also some surprising categories of individuals who are not barred from buying guns, including those on the terrorist watch (Terrorist Screening Database) list. These are categories policymakers should consider. 6. Enhance school safety, including placing a school resource officer (SRO) at every school. This is an area Tennessee Governor Bill Lee has already demonstrated significant commitment toward, having increased funding for school safety since the start of his first term in 2019. On April 3rd, Governor Lee unveiled new school safety legislation in response to the Covenant School attack, with more funding, more officer training, more school security upgrades, and additional behavioral health liaisons. The plan includes funds for an armed security guard at every Tennessee public school. A statewide poll of over 1,000 Tennessee parents conducted in the fall of 2022 by the Vanderbilt Center for Child Health Policy found over 83% agreed schools are safer with one or more SRO present. 7. Ban high-capacity magazines and/or assault-style weapons. A previous federal, 10-year assault weapons ban established under President Clinton expired in 2004 while I was in the Senate. Two government-led studies of the ban published in 1999 and 2004 found mixed results of its impact — largely due to the findings that these types of weapons were relatively rarely used in gun violence nationally in those times. The studies also stated that it was also hard to discern impact because assault weapons and large capacity magazines produced prior to the federal ban were grandfathered, so a large number were still in circulation. While the horrific Columbine shooting occurred in 1999 during the ban, we did not see a continued trend of school shootings. Today, that has clearly changed. The past 20 years have been a period of mass, targeted marketing by gun manufacturers that has accelerated the growth and popularity of semi-automatic weapons. At least two-thirds of the AR-15s in circulation in the U.S. have been manufactured in the last decade. And it is estimated that one in 20 adults own an AR-15 today, a semi-automatic rifle that is a civilian version of the military M16 rifle which fires one round for each pull of the trigger, automatically reloading for the next shot, capable of firing 45 to 60 rounds a minute. This is an astounding figure, but underscores the cultural acceptance of those firearms today. Largely in response to the increase in violence using these firearms, nine states have implemented assault weapon bans of their own, and fourteen have banned high-capacity magazines. The most recent statewide survey reveals that in Tennessee right at 50% of registered voters support a ban on assault-style weapons to prevent school shootings (37% strongly support and 13% somewhat support). I recognize this is a highly politicized issue, but there are steps we can take to protect the Second Amendment and also protect our children’s lives. Constitutional issues and public health issues are not mutually exclusive. We know from shootings where high-capacity magazines are used, the death toll is much higher. The period when a mass shooter must pause to reload is a vital moment when he or she can be overpowered, and victims have the opportunity to escape. A recent study analyzing mass shootings between 1990 and 2017 found that attacks where high-capacity magazines were used resulted in a 62% higher death toll, and that these types of high-fatality shootings were twice as common in states that hadn’t outlawed these magazines. Banning large capacity magazines, generally those with more than 10 rounds of ammunition, can potentially take a tool away from would-be mass shooters. It’s clear from today’s data – especially the growing incidence of mass shooting events involving high-capacity magazines and assault weapons – that it’s time to consider a policy changes. 8. Fund research to better understand the drivers of gun violence. Here is where we can act immediately. We need more and better research and science-grounded information and studies to inform what we do. This can determine what works and what does not. In the past, our federal government has purposely (and wrongfully in my opinion) not funded gun safety and gun violence research. For over 20 years, a 1996 budget amendment pushed by the NRA prohibited it. Thankfully, this has begun to shift and in 2020 federal research funds, though minimal, began to flow again. The unfortunate, government-caused gap in fundamental safety knowledge has held back an informed response in policy, but now this can be rectified if we demonstrate broad public support for federal research. Beyond federal research to inform policy, we need better local understanding by each of us as individuals. This will require investing in understanding the health and firearm-related attitudes, culture, and behaviors within our own local communities, something we began to do in Nashville with a 2019 comprehensive health and wellness population survey – the first of its kind in nearly 20 years. Through discussions with over 1,800 respondents, we at NashvilleHealth discovered information about disease prevalence, health behaviors, mental health challenges, and gun ownership. The self-reported survey indicated 27% of Nashvillians kept firearms in their homes. Among the owners, 42% reported the guns loaded, with more than half describing their loaded firearms as unlocked and accessible. We learned that most respondents regarded their gun ownership and accessibility as a safety issue for themselves: 63% reported that they felt safer when they have firearms in their home or vehicles. These data alone don’t dictate specific policies by themselves, but they can serve as provocative, constructive starting points for personal and community conversations about firearm safety in our neighborhoods. I encourage all communities to conduct similar surveys to better understand their own more immediate environments. And statewide surveys such as that released by Vanderbilt today are also useful to encourage informed conversation. Tennessee Governor Bill Lee, who enjoys an approval rate over 80% among GOP registered voters and 53% among all voters (the highest of all elected officials polled), received support from 82% of registered voters for his recently signed executive order strengthening background checks. This broad support is something state legislators should consider when evaluating his call for an order of protection law, to be considered in a special session this summer. On April 11, in response to The Covenant School [+] VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY CENTER ON THE STUDY OF DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS 9. Raise the legal purchasing age. In Tennessee the legal age for purchasing all types of firearms is age 18. About a third of states have raised the purchasing age for handguns to 21, and some have also raised the purchasing age for semi-automatic weapons and assault rifles as well. Hawaii, for example, which boasts the lowest rate of gun ownership and gun death of all 50 states, limits legal gun sales to those 21 and older. Interestingly, there is substantial scientific evidence demonstrating that the frontal lobe of the brain, responsible for judgment and impulse control, is still developing at the adolescent stage into the mid-20s. That is one of the reasons the minimum rental age for cars is often set at 25 years old. A 2012 study by the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research found that in the U.S., 18- to 20-year olds were the age group most likely to commit homicides. Our nation has also seen a notable uptick in teenage suicide, an increase of 29% among adolescents ages 15 to 19 over the previous decade, and the latest data has found that guns were the most common method of suicide for Tennessee adolescents and teens, accounting for 65% of suicide deaths. 10. Make gunmakers liable for harm caused by their products and improve product safety. Right now, the firearms industry bears no liability for shootings, and thus has no financial incentive to make their products safer. Ironically, mass shootings actually increase firearms sales. What can be done to incentivize change? There are both high-tech and low-tech solutions gun manufacturers can add to their products to make them safer, including: chambered round indicators, magazine release safeties heavier trigger pulls, grip safeties, firing pin blocks, and now, the technology for “smart guns” is here. This includes guns that require biometric data like a fingerprint, a PIN, or phone app to unlock the weapon – making it inaccessible to minors and rendering it useless if stolen. The government can play a role in requiring the production of safer firearms, in the same way we have made cars safer with airbags, backup cameras, blind spot detection, and driving assistance. 11. Fund mental health. I list this one last not because it’s least important, but rather because it’s arguably the most complicated and hardest to solve for. Across the board, mental health is massively underfunded and undertreated in the U.S. Research has shown that only about 4% of community violence is attributable to severe mental disorders – meaning its impact is frequently misassumed and often simplistically overstated, and does not apply to the perpetrators of most gun crimes. We often hear that those who are mentally ill shouldn’t be able to purchase firearms, and indeed, those committing mass shootings are certainly mentally unwell. Unfortunately, there isn’t an easy way to check a person’s mental wellbeing during a background check. Only individuals who have been involuntarily committed to a mental hospital or declared mentally incompetent by a court or government body are required to be flagged to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). So, while many individuals who have committed mass shootings in recent years have histories of mental health problems – including it seems, Audrey Hale of Nashville – few if any have been involuntarily institutionalized and would show up on the NICS database. We know, for example, that both Hale and the Uvalde school shooter legally purchased their firearms through federally licensed firearms dealers, successfully passing background checks. Earlier mental health intervention is unquestionably important – not just to prevent mass shootings, but also to reduce the climbing rate of youth suicide, and to improve overall wellbeing. Unfortunately, as we know, our mental health system is broken and inadequately supported. It is imperative we follow through with sustained resources so that access and affordability are no longer barriers. I may favor reform of guns laws, but I am someone who also values gun ownership. I recognize that some of these suggestions will not appeal to many Tennesseans and many Americans. But I share them with a hope that they can be starting points for civil, informed conversations at a time when we know we must reverse the current trends of worsening gun violence. Lawmakers might be surprised how broadly supported so many of these ideas are – a new Fox News Poll found 87% of voters support universal background checks, 81% support raising the firearms purchasing age to 21, 80% support requiring a mental health check on gun buyers, and 80% supported allowing police to take guns from those considered a danger to themselves or others. All nations have criminals and the mentally ill, but only we have an epidemic of mass shootings, and we are failing our children. Now is the time to address the massive new public health threat to kids
creed 1,645 Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 I would add there needs to be a means of removing guns from owners who are not responsible based on a national standard with common rules. For example, a legal gun owner similar to the Texas shooter, minus the killings, should have his gun confiscated and not returned until they go through additional training. Obviously, any legislation or control will cost money and I expect it to be paid by licensing. However, if current guns owners balk at licensing I would suggest adding or raising federal taxes on ammunition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAU 1,600 Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 I'll chime in on this: 1. Enact extreme risk protection order (ERPO) laws. - Let's start by calling this what it really is - suspension of Constitutional Rights w/o due process. There are already several ways to do this, such as getting someone committed or diagnosed as mentally incompetent. If someone is so dangerous that we feel we need to toss our Constitution to the side - why isn't the person fully committed? If they are dangerous, why leave them in public at all? Also, what types of damages are available for people who are the victims of this "process" when it is abused? I will say I agree with the process of getting the people who are threats away from the public, but the current processes for ERPOs is Constitutionally flawed and in most cases still leaves the person in the public? If we are depriving them of Rights, why not detain them as well? 2. Implement child-access prevention and safe storage laws. I am all for safe storage, but lets take a look at some of the flaws of this. For example, someone is out in public, running errands, and has to go into a place that has a "No Firearms" policy - you really don't have any choice but to leave a gun in a car. Places of work are similar - you may very well want to be armed during your commute, but most places won't allow employees to be armed. Safes are an option in a car, but if the car itself is locked, that should be secure. How about we add mandatory sentencing for the thieves that steal guns? Charging victims of crime sounds kind of backwards. As for parents and their children, I think its reckless not to secure firearms, but child endangerment laws already exist. 3. Expand background checks to all firearm purchases. I could potentially get behind this IF someone can explain how this could be enforced WITHOUT a firearms registry. 4. Require firearms safety courses for ownership. On the surface this makes sense, but so does requiring people to pass tests on Civics, Macro-Economics and Foreign Affairs before they can vote. However, in the spirit of compromise if it was free of charge and purchases aren't tracked / tied to names & registries it could be made reasonable 5. Expand who is restricted from purchasing or owning firearms. I really don't have an issue barring criminals or those with drug addictions from owning guns. As for the Terrorist Watchlist - we have a LOT of work to do there. First, people are placed on that list without their knowledge and the ability to defend themselves. Then, they incur legal costs to try and clear their names, in many cases without even knowing how they got on the list. If some due process was in place, this would make sense. 6. Enhance school safety, including placing a school resource officer (SRO) at every school. Agree with this, 100%. Some schools, based on size and maybe even crime rates in the area, I would even say more than 1. 7. Ban high-capacity magazines and/or assault-style weapons. Completely disagree, non-negotiable. 8. Fund research to better understand the drivers of gun violence. - Not sure how I feel about this as so many of these "studies" are complete garbage and just use cherry-picked data and have predetermined outcomes. For example, the CDC under Biden removing the number of defensive uses of firearms from their last study on gun violence. This video is pretty insightful, and surprisingly non-partisan. It shows how studies have been abused by both sides. Does Gun Control Work? 9. Raise the legal purchasing age. If, under the premise that brains aren't fully developed until age 25, then how about we raise the voting age, age for alcohol, tobacco and pot (where legal), and driving licenses? I'll settle for the age being 21 for firearms (all) and the voting age, with exceptions made for those in the military - deal? 10. Make gunmakers liable for harm caused by their products and improve product safety. This is complete garbage. Gun makers are liable for defects in their products. As to misuse of their products, are alcohol companies liable for drunk driving? Car makers for auto deaths? How about we hold junk food companies liable for obesity? This is nothing more than a backdoor method to sue firearms companies into oblivion. Funny what was left off this list though. The vast majority of "mass shootings" involve gang violence - but there is absolutely NOTHING in this list about getting criminals off the streets, or holding people accountable for their actions. Frankly I don't care about all the excuses the left makes for coddling those who disregard the law - crime is rampant and we are practically encouraging it, and then trying to punish law abiding gun owners. If people really think the laws we already have that prohibit murder, aggravated assault, attempted murder, etc. don't stop the crimes, the gun laws won't either. Heck, we are already failing to enforce laws - we should stop passing more of them until we enforce the ones we already have. 11. Fund mental health. Agree with funding mental health, but this also can tie into ERPOs. The author mentions only 4% of "community violence" is tied to mental health, but what percentage of mass shootings, if that is in fact the problem we're trying to solve for? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAU 1,600 Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 14 hours ago, creed said: I would add there needs to be a means of removing guns from owners who are not responsible based on a national standard with common rules. For example, a legal gun owner similar to the Texas shooter, minus the killings, should have his gun confiscated and not returned until they go through additional training. Obviously, any legislation or control will cost money and I expect it to be paid by licensing. However, if current guns owners balk at licensing I would suggest adding or raising federal taxes on ammunition. Kind of like a poll tax, right? How about we fine the criminals and let them pay for it? If they can't, let the state liquidate assets? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arein0 977 Posted May 5, 2023 Author Share Posted May 5, 2023 1 hour ago, GoAU said: Frankly I don't care about all the excuses the left makes for coddling those who disregard the law You do realize the author is a retired respected Republican Senator, right? So this message is actually coming from the right. He is actually thinking about the children. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arein0 977 Posted May 5, 2023 Author Share Posted May 5, 2023 1 hour ago, GoAU said: 9. Raise the legal purchasing age. If, under the premise that brains aren't fully developed until age 25, then how about we raise the voting age, age for alcohol, tobacco and pot (where legal), and driving licenses? I'll settle for the age being 21 for firearms (all) and the voting age, with exceptions made for those in the military - deal? I didn't realize you could murder or cause harm to yourself or others with your vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arein0 977 Posted May 5, 2023 Author Share Posted May 5, 2023 1 hour ago, GoAU said: 8. Fund research to better understand the drivers of gun violence. - Not sure how I feel about this as so many of these "studies" are complete garbage and just use cherry-picked data and have predetermined outcomes. For example, the CDC under Biden removing the number of defensive uses of firearms from their last study on gun violence. This video is pretty insightful, and surprisingly non-partisan. It shows how studies have been abused by both sides. Does Gun Control Work? This response is so on brand for the new age Republicans. Data bad, education bad, act emotionally good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arein0 977 Posted May 5, 2023 Author Share Posted May 5, 2023 1 hour ago, GoAU said: 4. Require firearms safety courses for ownership. On the surface this makes sense, but so does requiring people to pass tests on Civics, Macro-Economics and Foreign Affairs before they can vote. However, in the spirit of compromise if it was free of charge and purchases aren't tracked / tied to names & registries it could be made reasonable Yup, let's just restrict who can vote. Let's just make it so only old, white, Christian men can vote. Also serious question, why are you against having a gun registry? Is it out of fear the government might come knocking on your door to take your guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAU 1,600 Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, arein0 said: You do realize the author is a retired respected Republican Senator, right? So this message is actually coming from the right. He is actually thinking about the children. Don’t really care about the past or current party affiliation of the author. When it comes to soft on crime policies the left is absolutely leading the way. Just because the author has / had a “R” next to his name doesn’t mean I won’t criticize bad ideas for what they are Edited May 5, 2023 by GoAU 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAU 1,600 Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, arein0 said: I didn't realize you could murder or cause harm to yourself or others with your vote Yeah, voting doesn’t have consequences, right? Decisions that literally steer the path of our nation are ever bit as important. Edited May 5, 2023 by GoAU 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAU 1,600 Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, arein0 said: Yup, let's just restrict who can vote. Let's just make it so only old, white, Christian men can vote. Also serious question, why are you against having a gun registry? Is it out of fear the government might come knocking on your door to take your guns? You make it sound far fetched, but registries have led to confiscation numerous times in history. To make it sound far fetched is completely disingenuous as there are more than several politicians claiming to want to do just that. As for my analogy to a poll tax, it is on point and nothing I said brought in race or religion - you did that, but I can’t say I’m surprised. The only restriction I would like to see around voting is the reasonable requirement of voter identification- which is also required to purchase a firearm. Edited May 5, 2023 by GoAU 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAU 1,600 Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 6 hours ago, arein0 said: This response is so on brand for the new age Republicans. Data bad, education bad, act emotionally good. “New age” - I’m flattered…. I suggest you work on reading comprehension. My concern isn’t with data - it is with the manipulation of data to fit a preconceived narrative. I provided an example, and if you would like other examples: Including suicides and justified police shootings in “gun violence” statistics that more than double the numbers Including 18-19 year old adults as “children” - the vast majority of this are involved in gang crime - to hit a “leading cause of death” headline. Picking and choosing definitions to skew data as needed….. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arein0 977 Posted May 5, 2023 Author Share Posted May 5, 2023 5 hours ago, GoAU said: You make it sound far fetched, but registries have led to confiscation numerous times in history. To make it sound far fetched is completely disingenuous as there are more than several politicians claiming to want to do just that. Thank you for answering. I apologize if I made that question seem far fetched. I am very ignorant on the reasoning behind your stance and wanted to learn more behind it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arein0 977 Posted May 5, 2023 Author Share Posted May 5, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, GoAU said: “New age” - I’m flattered…. I suggest you work on reading comprehension. My concern isn’t with data - it is with the manipulation of data to fit a preconceived narrative. I provided an example, and if you would like other examples: Including suicides and justified police shootings in “gun violence” statistics that more than double the numbers Including 18-19 year old adults as “children” - the vast majority of this are involved in gang crime - to hit a “leading cause of death” headline. Picking and choosing definitions to skew data as needed….. I don't see how excluding defensive uses is "manipulating data" when the topic is gun violence. I think you would've been more upset if they had included it...see your comment on suicides as an example, which I do believe should be included. I just got done watching that video and I actually think that video is propaganda for the non data believers. I think he is trying to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt around data. Are there bad actors that will manipulate data to prove a point? Sure to say no would be niave. But guess what, just like in science, it is extremely easy to disprove a manipulated study. But to say you don't want a study because of a few bad actors is essentially saying you don't want to learn about the topic and just make important decisions blindly. There is a reason why analytics / data science is one of the fastest growing fields. Edit: they used under 20 for the age because it is widely used to group age data in groups of 10 Edited May 5, 2023 by arein0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,957 Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 Biden doesn’t seem to be waiting on congress to limit gun usage by law abiding citizens. https://www.foxnews.com/media/conservation-groups-fighting-back-against-misguided-biden-admins-regulation-efforts-hunting-fishing Limiting gun usage is this administration’s goal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creed 1,645 Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 (edited) 20 hours ago, GoAU said: I'll chime in on this: 1. Enact extreme risk protection order (ERPO) laws. - Let's start by calling this what it really is - suspension of Constitutional Rights w/o due process. There are already several ways to do this, such as getting someone committed or diagnosed as mentally incompetent. If someone is so dangerous that we feel we need to toss our Constitution to the side - why isn't the person fully committed? If they are dangerous, why leave them in public at all? Also, what types of damages are available for people who are the victims of this "process" when it is abused? I will say I agree with the process of getting the people who are threats away from the public, but the current processes for ERPOs is Constitutionally flawed and in most cases still leaves the person in the public? If we are depriving them of Rights, why not detain them as well? 2. Implement child-access prevention and safe storage laws. I am all for safe storage, but lets take a look at some of the flaws of this. For example, someone is out in public, running errands, and has to go into a place that has a "No Firearms" policy - you really don't have any choice but to leave a gun in a car. Places of work are similar - you may very well want to be armed during your commute, but most places won't allow employees to be armed. Safes are an option in a car, but if the car itself is locked, that should be secure. How about we add mandatory sentencing for the thieves that steal guns? Charging victims of crime sounds kind of backwards. As for parents and their children, I think its reckless not to secure firearms, but child endangerment laws already exist. 3. Expand background checks to all firearm purchases. I could potentially get behind this IF someone can explain how this could be enforced WITHOUT a firearms registry. 4. Require firearms safety courses for ownership. On the surface this makes sense, but so does requiring people to pass tests on Civics, Macro-Economics and Foreign Affairs before they can vote. However, in the spirit of compromise if it was free of charge and purchases aren't tracked / tied to names & registries it could be made reasonable 5. Expand who is restricted from purchasing or owning firearms. I really don't have an issue barring criminals or those with drug addictions from owning guns. As for the Terrorist Watchlist - we have a LOT of work to do there. First, people are placed on that list without their knowledge and the ability to defend themselves. Then, they incur legal costs to try and clear their names, in many cases without even knowing how they got on the list. If some due process was in place, this would make sense. 6. Enhance school safety, including placing a school resource officer (SRO) at every school. Agree with this, 100%. Some schools, based on size and maybe even crime rates in the area, I would even say more than 1. 7. Ban high-capacity magazines and/or assault-style weapons. Completely disagree, non-negotiable. 8. Fund research to better understand the drivers of gun violence. - Not sure how I feel about this as so many of these "studies" are complete garbage and just use cherry-picked data and have predetermined outcomes. For example, the CDC under Biden removing the number of defensive uses of firearms from their last study on gun violence. This video is pretty insightful, and surprisingly non-partisan. It shows how studies have been abused by both sides. Does Gun Control Work? 9. Raise the legal purchasing age. If, under the premise that brains aren't fully developed until age 25, then how about we raise the voting age, age for alcohol, tobacco and pot (where legal), and driving licenses? I'll settle for the age being 21 for firearms (all) and the voting age, with exceptions made for those in the military - deal? 10. Make gunmakers liable for harm caused by their products and improve product safety. This is complete garbage. Gun makers are liable for defects in their products. As to misuse of their products, are alcohol companies liable for drunk driving? Car makers for auto deaths? How about we hold junk food companies liable for obesity? This is nothing more than a backdoor method to sue firearms companies into oblivion. Funny what was left off this list though. The vast majority of "mass shootings" involve gang violence - but there is absolutely NOTHING in this list about getting criminals off the streets, or holding people accountable for their actions. Frankly I don't care about all the excuses the left makes for coddling those who disregard the law - crime is rampant and we are practically encouraging it, and then trying to punish law abiding gun owners. If people really think the laws we already have that prohibit murder, aggravated assault, attempted murder, etc. don't stop the crimes, the gun laws won't either. Heck, we are already failing to enforce laws - we should stop passing more of them until we enforce the ones we already have. 11. Fund mental health. Agree with funding mental health, but this also can tie into ERPOs. The author mentions only 4% of "community violence" is tied to mental health, but what percentage of mass shootings, if that is in fact the problem we're trying to solve for? To your point #5. Do you think there are other individuals that should not own guns besides criminals or mentally ill people. How about a alcoholic, or an intoxicated person, who randomly fires shots in the air in his densely populated neighborhood just as an act of having fun during a party. Or a person who abuses hallucinogics and conceals carries a weapon. Or an elderly person who when bought his weapon was okay, but now he shows signs of demintial. Or the other many similar cases. Do you support laws for preventing some from gun ownership and methods for confiscating guns from irresponsible owners? Edited May 5, 2023 by creed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAU 1,600 Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 1 hour ago, creed said: To your point #5. Do you think there are other individuals that should not own guns besides criminals or mentally ill people. How about a alcoholic, or an intoxicated person, who randomly fires shots in the air in his densely populated neighborhood just as an act of having fun during a party. Or a person who abuses hallucinogics and conceals carries a weapon. Or an elderly person who when bought his weapon was okay, but now he shows signs of demintial. Or the other many similar cases. Do you support laws for preventing some from gun ownership and methods for confiscating guns from irresponsible owners? Potentially, assuming there is due process involved. But you do understand that just about everything you mentioned above is currently covered by laws already on the books - if we just enforced the laws we already have, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creed 1,645 Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 1 hour ago, GoAU said: Potentially, assuming there is due process involved. But you do understand that just about everything you mentioned above is currently covered by laws already on the books - if we just enforced the laws we already have, right? You must be referring to the federal Gun Control Act of 1968. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAU 1,600 Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 In part, but was also referring to laws regarding drug abuse, reckless endangerment, etc. I am personally NOT a fan that the courts have recently said that use of marijuana does not preclude you from owning a gun. I kind of see their reasoning, but I’m also not a fan of legalization of marijuana in general. For those that are not mentally capable of owning guns, being adjudicated as mentally defective removes your right to own or posses firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubaseball 2,648 Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 GoAU, don’t bring common sense into this topic. The bottom line is that there are people in this country that want guns outlawed, period. Hell, one even ran for president, senator and governor of a state. Let’s not kid ourselves, this disingenuous position by some people is laughable when it comes to safety in the name of kids. You listed some of the inconsistencies in their argument and it isn’t worth repeating. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arein0 977 Posted May 6, 2023 Author Share Posted May 6, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, aubaseball said: GoAU, don’t bring common sense into this topic. The bottom line is that there are people in this country that want guns outlawed, period. Hell, one even ran for president, senator and governor of a state. Let’s not kid ourselves, this disingenuous position by some people is laughable when it comes to safety in the name of kids. You listed some of the inconsistencies in their argument and it isn’t worth repeating. Guns are currently the #1 killer of children in this country...but yes, let's disregard that stat, make no changes, and keep allowing the bad guys purchasing guns legally. Edit: https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/ Edited May 6, 2023 by arein0 Added link 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,428 Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 (edited) On 5/5/2023 at 5:52 AM, GoAU said: “New age” - I’m flattered…. I suggest you work on reading comprehension. My concern isn’t with data - it is with the manipulation of data to fit a preconceived narrative. I provided an example, and if you would like other examples: Including suicides and justified police shootings in “gun violence” statistics that more than double the numbers Including 18-19 year old adults as “children” - the vast majority of this are involved in gang crime - to hit a “leading cause of death” headline. Picking and choosing definitions to skew data as needed….. 18 -19 year olds are children, at least the males are. The brain doesn't mature until the mid-20's. (Which is one reason 18-19 year olds make such good soldiers.) Edited May 6, 2023 by homersapien 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAU 1,600 Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 3 hours ago, homersapien said: 18 -19 year olds are children, at least the males are. The brain doesn't mature until the mid-20's. (Which is one reason 18-19 year olds make such good soldiers.) Yeah, because soldiers don’t have to think or be mature… I thought you said you served? If so, what kind of unit? The stuff I did sure helped me grow up in a hurry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAU 1,600 Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 On 5/5/2023 at 11:08 AM, arein0 said: I don't see how excluding defensive uses is "manipulating data" when the topic is gun violence. I think you would've been more upset if they had included it...see your comment on suicides as an example, which I do believe should be included. I just got done watching that video and I actually think that video is propaganda for the non data believers. I think he is trying to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt around data. Are there bad actors that will manipulate data to prove a point? Sure to say no would be niave. But guess what, just like in science, it is extremely easy to disprove a manipulated study. But to say you don't want a study because of a few bad actors is essentially saying you don't want to learn about the topic and just make important decisions blindly. There is a reason why analytics / data science is one of the fastest growing fields. Edit: they used under 20 for the age because it is widely used to group age data in groups of 10 They didn’t exclude defensive uses, they included them, which is wrong, just like it’s wrong to use justified police shootings and suicides. No, they included 18-20 year olds because is significantly inflated the numbers and helped the narrative they intended to push. We continue to selectively pick and choose what defines and adult and it’s garbage. Either you are, or you are not an adult. Removing the gang violence brings these numbers down by orders of magnitude. Removing the artificial inflation of justified police shootings and suicides shows this is a small fraction of the issue people play it up to be. we don’t have a gun problem, we have a crime / culture problem and people are scared to address it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAU 1,600 Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 8 hours ago, arein0 said: Guns are currently the #1 killer of children in this country...but yes, let's disregard that stat, make no changes, and keep allowing the bad guys purchasing guns legally. Edit: https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/ Garbage - pure manipulation. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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