Freedom from Religion warns Auburn University

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

Is he?

He mentions God and/or Jesus during most, if not all his pressers.  More than Freeze has done.

[TexasTiger 13,136]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

He mentions God and/or Jesus during most, if not all his pressers.  More than Freeze has done.

Indeed he does.

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. ...

Isaiah 26:20

I think we were commanded to live it, not say it.

[jj3jordan 2,081]

4 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

This is a lie.  However, I do place the words of Jesus above the words of others.

 

You mean the words of Jesus that you learned from the Bible? That unreliable old book you regularly deny is God’s Word?

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

39 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Indeed he does.

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. ...

Isaiah 26:20

I think we were commanded to live it, not say it.

I agree, but some are preaching the word and Prime has the spirit.  That is between God and Prime.

[TexasTiger 13,136]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

I agree, but some are preaching the word and Prime has the spirit.  That is between God and Prime.

Sounds like you’re rendering a judgment of your own.

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

13 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Sounds like you’re rendering a judgment of your own.

Really?  I plead ichy.

[SaltyTiger 7,908]

4 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

I do not.

I only chose the word "spectacle" because it is so public.  I was not judging.

It is an honest question. 

What is not “public” today? You chose to judge our coaches over a spontaneous event that involved very few people. Way less than 1% of the student/faculty/administration/staff even present.

 

 

 

 

[SaltyTiger 7,908]

3 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Did he change his views & expectations?

Great question Tex.  He did change his decision in Numbers after talking with Moses on occasion.
 

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by SaltyTiger

[TexasTiger 13,136]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

Great question Tex.  He did change his decision in Numbers after talking with Moses on occasion.
 

 

 

 

In modern parlance, have we given him reason to think he may have made a programming glitch? 😉

[TitanTiger 20,542]

14 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

If he knew what they would do, why was he so angry?

Sorry I didn't respond to this for until now.  For those who were just lurking, I had what turned out to be a minor family medical emergency yesterday afternoon that extended into the evening and was taking care of that.  Everything is good now but I just couldn't really pay attention to this discussion anymore.  I PM'd Tex about it so he knew I wasn't ignoring but just wanted folks to know why I just dropped off so suddenly.

Now, back to the question above:

I think there are a few things to consider when trying to understand the relationship between God's foreknowledge and how He "reacts" to human events and behavior.  And much of it is difficult for temporary human beings to fully comprehend because we just have no reference point for it.

First, while God steps into and interacts with us in the realm of space and time, God transcends both.  He exists in eternity and is not bound by the constraints of space, time and linear events (first this happens, then this, and later this, etc...).  So while we have free will - we aren't automatons just play acting for Him - He still is able to know what we will freely choose.  Nothing is a surprise to him.  So, whereas a frequent component of human anger is shock and surprise or at least a reaction to certain expectations not being met (when we hoped they would and genuinely didn't know the outcome), God's anger does not come from that place.

At the same time though, God is interacting with beings who ARE bound by time and space and linear progression of history.  In a way, He is condescending to our limitations and capacity to understand.  So though He is not taken by surprise when we disobey and sin, He "reacts" to our sin in "real time" (for us).  And while his anger doesn't come from being shocked that we didn't obey, neither is it arbitrary or play acting.  His anger toward sin and disobedience comes from his love and His holiness.  His holiness in the sense that God is absolutely perfect, blameless and without sin.  Sin is completely outside God's nature and in a sense is the opposite of everything that makes Him God in the first place.  But combined with that is His love for his creation and human being specifically.  He created us for relationship with Him, and he created us to thrive and to be truly happy in that relationship.  He hates sin not only because it's antithetical to His holy nature but because of what it does to us.  He loves us and his love is pure - He literally wants the absolute best for us and He knows the destruction, rot, and devastation that sin does to us as individuals, as human beings in general, and to all of creation.  So he expresses his anger at sinful actions - He cannot do anything other.  

It conveys to us the seriousness of what we've done.  It engages us in the realm of time and space, even though He is not bound by it, nor shocked that it happened.  It is meant to teach/reinforce to us right from wrong and to discipline us so we will move to what's right and leave it behind.  We perceive it as "I did this, then God saw it happen, then He got angry/corrected me/reacted to it" and that's how it works from a temporal, human perspective.  But from God's perspective, that linear progression isn't the way it works.  Everything to Him is just the "eternal now."  

 

[TexasTiger 13,136]

9 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Sorry I didn't respond to this for until now.  For those who were just lurking, I had what turned out to be a minor family medical emergency yesterday afternoon that extended into the evening and was taking care of that.  Everything is good now but I just couldn't really pay attention to this discussion anymore.  I PM'd Tex about it so he knew I wasn't ignoring but just wanted folks to know why I just dropped off so suddenly.

Now, back to the question above:

I think there are a few things to consider when trying to understand the relationship between God's foreknowledge and how He "reacts" to human events and behavior.  And much of it is difficult for temporary human beings to fully comprehend because we just have no reference point for it.

First, while God steps into and interacts with us in the realm of space and time, God transcends both.  He exists in eternity and is not bound by the constraints of space, time and linear events (first this happens, then this, and later this, etc...).  So while we have free will - we aren't automatons just play acting for Him - He still is able to know what we will freely choose.  Nothing is a surprise to him.  So, whereas a frequent component of human anger is shock and surprise or at least a reaction to certain expectations not being met (when we hoped they would and genuinely didn't know the outcome), God's anger does not come from that place.

At the same time though, God is interacting with beings who ARE bound by time and space and linear progression of history.  In a way, He is condescending to our limitations and capacity to understand.  So though He is not taken by surprise when we disobey and sin, He "reacts" to our sin in "real time" (for us).  And while his anger doesn't come from being shocked that we didn't obey, neither is it arbitrary or play acting.  His anger toward sin and disobedience comes from his love and His holiness.  His holiness in the sense that God is absolutely perfect, blameless and without sin.  Sin is completely outside God's nature and in a sense is the opposite of everything that makes Him God in the first place.  But combined with that is His love for his creation and human being specifically.  He created us for relationship with Him, and he created us to thrive and to be truly happy in that relationship.  He hates sin not only because it's antithetical to His holy nature but because of what it does to us.  He loves us and his love is pure - He literally wants the absolute best for us and He knows the destruction, rot, and devastation that sin does to us as individuals, as human beings in general, and to all of creation.  So he expresses his anger at sinful actions - He cannot do anything other.  

It conveys to us the seriousness of what we've done.  It engages us in the realm of time and space, even though He is not bound by it, nor shocked that it happened.  It is meant to teach/reinforce to us right from wrong and to discipline us so we will move to what's right and leave it behind.  We perceive it as "I did this, then God saw it happen, then He got angry/corrected me/reacted to it" and that's how it works from a temporal, human perspective.  But from God's perspective, that linear progression isn't the way it works.  Everything to Him is just the "eternal now."  

 

Was the Bible inaccurate to report he was angry about Adam & Eve? So he always knew he’d kick them out of paradise pretty quickly? Why?

Since the Bible was written in its current form, has anyone else spoken for God, or was Christ the last one?

Are you confident that it was God who assured that the “correct” books made it into the Bible as we now know it and that nothing important was left out?

[TitanTiger 20,542]

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Was the Bible inaccurate to report he was angry about Adam & Eve?

No.  He was angry.  That God's anger wasn't "reactionary" in the way someone limited to a linear time/space realm would be doesn't make it fake.

 

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Since the Bible was written in its current form, has anyone else spoken for God, or was Christ the last one?

Probably need to flesh out this question a bit more so I understand it better.

 

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Are you confident that it was God who assured that the “correct” books made it into the Bible as we now know it and that nothing important was left out?

Yes.  I do believe that's the case.  I realize in the end it's a faith position.  Not a "blind faith" one - there are good reasons as to why I trust the process and the books that became the canon, but a scientific level of proof for it doesn't exist - at least that I can discern.

And that's ok.  Not everything is something science is equipped to answer anyway.  Hell, even aspects of what we consider science can't be proven by science.

[TexasTiger 13,136]

10 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

No.  He was angry.  That God's anger wasn't "reactionary" in the way someone limited to a linear time/space realm would be doesn't make it fake.

 

Probably need to flesh out this question a bit more so I understand it better.

 

Yes.  I do believe that's the case.  I realize in the end it's a faith position.  Not a "blind faith" one - there are good reasons as to why I trust the process and the books that became the canon, but a scientific level of proof for it doesn't exist - at least that I can discern.

And that's ok.  Not everything is something science is equipped to answer anyway.  Hell, even aspects of what we consider science can't be proven by science.

 

15 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Since the Bible was written in its current form, has anyone else spoken for God, or was Christ the last one?

Thanks. I understood you to say that that the Bible is all true and accurate and that others, not just Christ, were providing God’s word, not merely repeating or clarifying God’s word, but God speaking through them. Has God spoken through anyone since Christ and, if so, whom?

[homersapien 11,513]

It's threads like this that evoke an overwhelming sense of my being a "stranger in a strange land". 

 

[TitanTiger 20,542]

43 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Thanks. I understood you to say that that the Bible is all true and accurate and that others, not just Christ, were providing God’s word, not merely repeating or clarifying God’s word, but God speaking through them. Has God spoken through anyone since Christ and, if so, whom?

I guess it depends on what is meant by "spoken through."  If that means, "proclaimed authoritative teaching," I believe that Jesus and his Apostles were it.  No new teachings after them have come.

If you mean "spoken through" as in the Holy Spirit directed and gave the words to say to people in the years and centuries since the deaths of the last Apostles, but that what was spoken is simply reinforcing or applying to the current circumstance what is already in Scripture, I would say yes.  God has spoken through people and continues to do so in this way.

[icanthearyou 4,464]

14 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

What is not “public” today? You chose to judge our coaches over a spontaneous event that involved very few people. Way less than 1% of the student/faculty/administration/staff even present.

 

 

 

 

Again, you are lying.  I have judged no one.

Why so angry over a simple question?

[icanthearyou 4,464]

16 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

You mean the words of Jesus that you learned from the Bible? That unreliable old book you regularly deny is God’s Word?

Is it?  How so? 

Inspired by, written/crafted by,,, are two vastly different concepts. 

I respect what you believe even though I disagree with it.  I would caution you that such interpretation has historically led "christians" into committing acts that are clearly inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus and, in no way reflect the love of Jesus.

[jj3jordan 2,081]

9 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Is it?  How so? 

Inspired by, written/crafted by,,, are two vastly different concepts. 

I respect what you believe even though I disagree with it.  I would caution you that such interpretation has historically led "christians" into committing acts that are clearly inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus and, in no way reflect the love of Jesus.

Is what? How what?

Fact:  You deny the Bible is the Word of God.

Fact:  You glean your knowledge of Jesus and His desires for our lives from the Bible.

Discrepancy:  Your entire belief system.

Result: You reject the very Book God gave to us. Instead you substitute your own interpretation of Jesus’ teachings from the Book you actively dispute.

[icanthearyou 4,464]

21 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Is what? How what?

Fact:  You deny the Bible is the Word of God.

Fact:  You glean your knowledge of Jesus and His desires for our lives from the Bible.

Discrepancy:  Your entire belief system.

Result: You reject the very Book God gave to us. Instead you substitute your own interpretation of Jesus’ teachings from the Book you actively dispute.

This is a gross distortion.  But,,, yes, I do not believe the bible is God, written by God.

And yes, I believe the love of Jesus is the basis of salvation and, what Christianity is all about, not using the words of prophets and apostles in order to condemn one another.

I apologize for my beliefs being offensive to you.

[jj3jordan 2,081]

5 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

This is a gross distortion.  But,,, yes, I do not believe the bible is God, written by God.

And yes, I believe the love of Jesus is the basis of salvation and, what Christianity is all about, not using the words of prophets and apostles in order to condemn one another.

I apologize for my beliefs being offensive to you.

They are not offensive to me. I won’t be judging you for rejecting Gods word. Save it for the judgement seat.  No one can judge another because we are all sinners. Sinners condemn themselves. People don’t condemn other people. Maybe they think they can but they do not have that power. Only God has that power. 

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

Sir Charles on baptism:

 

 

[icanthearyou 4,464]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

They are not offensive to me. I won’t be judging you for rejecting Gods word. Save it for the judgement seat.  No one can judge another because we are all sinners. Sinners condemn themselves. People don’t condemn other people. Maybe they think they can but they do not have that power. Only God has that power. 

I apologize for misinterpreting your previous posts.

[SaltyTiger 7,908]

3 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Again, you are lying.  I have judged no one.

Why so angry over a simple question?

I am not angry with you. Just stating facts about you. Why are you chiming in anyway? You did not even like OP. Got a facepalm for just throwing it out for discussion.

[TexasTiger 13,136]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Sir Charles on baptism:

 

 

He’s talking to Freeze.

[icanthearyou 4,464]

20 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Just stating facts about you.

No.  You are not.

The question is legitimate.  It is benign.

You are lying again.