2024 vote could bring electoral college distortions to the forefront: The system empowers a sliver of the U.S. population in a diminishing number of battleground states.

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

20 minutes ago, Mikey said:

The stock market is not an indicator of the overall economic condition. Frequently the opposite is true.

Better tell Donald Trump that because when he was in office he  considered a high performing stock market to be the biggest indicator of his administrations economic success. 

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/06/trump-stock-market-boasts-395193

[Mikey 16,603]

1 minute ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Better tell Donald Trump that because when he was in office he  considered a high performing stock market to be the biggest indicator of his administrations economic success. 

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/06/trump-stock-market-boasts-395193

 

If so he was in error.

[homersapien 11,373]

13 hours ago, Mikey said:

The economy was great under Trump. I think you're confusing Trump's policies with the failed Bidenomics.

And you are confusing the economics Trump inherited from Obama as something he produced.  He simply ordered up more stimulus that was not needed, thus fueling inflation and contributing to the following recession caused largely by the Covid epidemic, which he also mishandled.o

More to the point, I was referring to the longer term economic results another Trump presidency would produce, thanks to the constitutional crisis and/or civil strife it will produce.  I could add more unwise stimulus measures (tax cuts).

Edited December 20, 2023 by homersapien

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

15 minutes ago, Mikey said:

 

If so he was in error.

 

Well, it confuses me why some people think Trump would be such a boon to the economy when apparently, by your own analysis, he doesn't even know what makes a good economy for the average American or how to judge it. 

 

 

 

 

[Mikey 16,603]

6 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Well, it confuses me why some people think Trump would be such a boon to the economy when apparently, by your own analysis, he doesn't even know what makes a good economy for the average American or how to judge it. 

 

 

 

 

Real wages went up, inflation was low. What does it matter what Trump thinks?

 

[homersapien 11,373]

52 minutes ago, Mikey said:

The stock market is not an indicator of the overall economic condition. Frequently the opposite is true.

Overly simplistic.

https://www.investopedia.com/how-stock-market-affects-economy-5296138

[AU9377 4,931]

On 12/8/2023 at 1:43 PM, auburnatl1 said:

 

 Maybe. But no politician even brings it up as a solution. People focus instead on Big Bang - disbanding it entirely and then realizes an amendment would necessary and everyone gives up. This would be  much much simpler.

I'm not so sure that any change at all would be constitutional without an amendment.  Maybe I am wrong... I would like to be.  If the popular vote continues to be misrepresented by the electoral college, something will need to be done.  I'm just not certain that it will happen in our lifetimes.

[AU9377 4,931]

On 12/20/2023 at 12:11 PM, Mikey said:

Real wages went up, inflation was low. What does it matter what Trump thinks?

 

Debt skyrocketed with no end in sight.  There is no amount of debt that Trump would not endorse if it made him look good immediately.  He simply doesn't give a damn about the impact of it all 30 years from now.

[Mikey 16,603]

2 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Debt skyrocketed with no end in sight.  There is no amount of debt that Trump would not endorse if it made him look good immediately.  He simply doesn't give a damn about the impact of it all 30 years from now.

Debt skyrocketed under Trump? A drop in the bucket compared to the damage Bungling Biden has done. I'm surprised you even mentioned debt.

[TexasTiger 12,876]

4 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Debt skyrocketed under Trump? A drop in the bucket compared to the damage Bungling Biden has done. I'm surprised you even mentioned debt.

Hitting the egg nog pretty hard still?

[arein0 956]

3 hours ago, Mikey said:

Debt skyrocketed under Trump? A drop in the bucket compared to the damage Bungling Biden has done. I'm surprised you even mentioned debt.

https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225

[Mikey 16,603]

20 minutes ago, arein0 said:

https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225

Biden has been in office less than three years. Give the bean counters time to catch up.

[AUFAN78 3,897]

On 12/20/2023 at 10:42 AM, CoffeeTiger said:

Better tell Donald Trump that because when he was in office he  considered a high performing stock market to be the biggest indicator of his administrations economic success. 

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/06/trump-stock-market-boasts-395193

This sh$# drives me crazy. The lazy among us believe everything in print as long as it fits our biased narrative.

Snippets from press conferences do not tell a complete story. Shame on Politico for misleading.

Go back to those particular press conferences for the truth. You'll see many indicators given for economic success. 

Now whether you choose to believe those indicators is another story for another day. Quite certain this too will be based on biases.

Ask middle to lower class individuals how they feel about the economy? Compare and contrast to MSM narratives. 

[JMWATS 93]

On 12/8/2023 at 10:45 AM, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Good analysis about the current state of the Electoral college system, and how an ever shrinking, small minority of voters around the nation are having any kind of real influence on who becomes the leader of the nation. 

As a voter in Alabama, I know that my vote and my opinion on who should be President of the United States doesn't matter...and due to the Electoral college...doesn't really count. The State of Alabama's electors are 100% guaranteed to all fully back the Republican candidate. Biden doesn't care about Alabama voters because there is no electoral votes from Alabama that are up for grabs. It's winner take all, and the Republican ALWAYS wins in Alabama. Whoever the Republican nominee is in 2024 also doesn't and wont care about Alabama voters...because they also know that their victory in Alabama is already guaranteed from Day one. 

I'm one of over 100 million of possible US voters who are in a similar situation. Our State is already safely guaranteed to have our electoral votes go either D or R no matter what. The Electoral college ensures that only the votes of a couple million people spread across the US matter or will have any kind of impact on who actually wins the Presidency. 

This system was created by our founding fathers who didn't trust common people/citizens to be able to correctly or intelligently choose the leader of the country. The original intent of the Electoral college system was for people to choose supposedly intelligent and talented electors to represent their votes and choose the best president for everyone. The founders were afraid that giving direct popular voting power to the people who enable populism and emotion to overtake the political system. Ironically, today the current version of the Electoral College system enables just that....the radicals, the populist, the extremists, to have an outsized influence on national elections and to override the will and votes of the more clear thinking majority. 

 

The Electoral College as it currently operates harms the country. it decreases the level of voter participation, decreases the sense of Democracy, decreases the trust in the political system, and is increasingly creating sentiments on both sides of the aisle that they have no influence or real vote on the direction of the country and on who our leaders are.  

 

 

As a voter in a red state why would i want voters in California making a decision for me?  

 

[arein0 956]

3 hours ago, JMWATS said:

As a voter in a red state why would i want voters in California making a decision for me?  

 

Why should your vote count more than someone elses based on which state you live in?

Also, out of all the states, California had the most people vote for Trump. Since California is a winner take all state (like almost every other state) those votes essentially did not count towards the final result.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

15 hours ago, Mikey said:

Biden has been in office less than three years. Give the bean counters time to catch up.

So you lied.  You area liar.

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

14 hours ago, JMWATS said:

As a voter in a red state why would i want voters in California making a decision for me?  

 

You're an American as are the people in California. 

All Americans should have an equal say in who leads the country, regardless of what state they live in. 

 

And like @arein0 mentioned....in 2020 over 6 million people in California voted for Donald Trump, but because of the Electoral College, their votes essentially didn't count because all the delegates went to Biden who got the most votes. 

Get rid of the Electoral College and suddenly those 6 million Republican California voters have a voice. 

 

The Electoral College is undemocratic for voters of both sides. 

[Leftfield 2,601]

15 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

So you lied.  You area liar.

 

I like this. Should be a new term - someone who just carpet-bomb lies so people don't know where to start fact-checking. 

Trump would be the Arclight version of this.

[autigeremt 6,629]

On 12/16/2023 at 9:58 AM, homersapien said:

Minority Power!!!

Who needs majority rule in the first place?

Careful. Majority rule can backfire 

[autigeremt 6,629]

36 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

I like this. Should be a new term - someone who just carpet-bomb lies so people don't know where to start fact-checking. 

Trump would be the Arclight version of this.

Washington DC is the hot zone for area lying 🤣 

[Leftfield 2,601]

Just now, autigeremt said:

Careful. Majority rule can backfire 

While true, this is the main role of the Senate - an equal amount of power in the chamber among the 50 states. It acts as a check to make sure smaller populations don't get completely run over.

Senators also tend to be more level-headed than Representatives, since they are higher-profile, though the Senate certainly has its cranks.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

The problems with democracy are not really conceptual.  The problems have more to do with power consolidated within two parties, a misinformed, divided electorate and, corrupt campaign finance laws.

We are not honest enough or, intelligent enough to understand that society is a reflection of the economy and, the economy a reflection of society.  We have precious little democracy left in this country.  We serve the economic interests of a relative few,,, almost exclusively.  We are too arrogant to believe we have anything to learn.

[AU9377 4,931]

21 hours ago, Mikey said:

Debt skyrocketed under Trump? A drop in the bucket compared to the damage Bungling Biden has done. I'm surprised you even mentioned debt.

In 4 years, Trump added to the debt an amount almost equal to the debt added by Obama in 8 years.  Joe Biden is on track to add less, although it will still be remarkably high.  Trump has no problem with debt.  How many times does he have to say it for it to stick?

We can look at percentage increase or total debt change. Several sources below.

https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225

https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprint/banking/national-debt-by-president/

Edited December 27, 2023 by AU9377

[homersapien 11,373]

1 hour ago, autigeremt said:

Careful. Majority rule can backfire 

Democracy itself can backfire.

But without majority rule, no actual democracy exists.

[homersapien 11,373]

19 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

This sh$# drives me crazy. The lazy among us believe everything in print as long as it fits our biased narrative.

Snippets from press conferences do not tell a complete story. Shame on Politico for misleading.

Go back to those particular press conferences for the truth. You'll see many indicators given for economic success. 

Now whether you choose to believe those indicators is another story for another day. Quite certain this too will be based on biases.

Ask middle to lower class individuals how they feel about the economy? Compare and contrast to MSM narratives. 

So, to summarize your opinion:

You believe there is no such thing as quantifiable, objective indicator statistics of the economy quite independent of any given individual's opinion.  Further, anyone simply reporting these indicators are simply pushing their "narrative".

So, does that accurately reflect what you believe?

Edited December 27, 2023 by homersapien