arein0 977 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 8 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: I’m pleased you are an independent. If you could only think that way. That's ironic coming from you. I would say @auburnatl1 is one of the few independent thinkers here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftfield 2,676 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 9 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: ...and the law is not based on what ifs; conjecture and narratives are. Ah, so if someone plots to have me murdered, but fail to go through with it, there's no crime? Or if they take a shot and miss? I feel much better about our legal system now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 8,012 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, Leftfield said: Technically any uprising would be insurrection, but the reason it's irrelevant is that Trump's intent on having people enter the Capitol didn't matter as long as his intent was to do something to stop the vote. His actions caused it, whether they achieved what he was specifically wanting or not. Here is where you fantasy falls apart. You assume Trump’s intent was that people enter the Capitol building, his words contradict that. His intent was to peacefully protest by his own words. It got out of hand for several reasons. 6 minutes ago, Leftfield said: So you're saying Trump deliberately caused circumstances that could lead to conflict of a scale that the National Guard might be needed? No, I didn’t say that at all. I said he anticipated a conflict and suggested additional safeguards that were rejected by the mayor. 9 minutes ago, Leftfield said: he proceeded in an attempt to stop the vote? He proceeded in a lawful protest by American citizens. The reports of dangerous groups and individuals that planned on attending is an interesting point. If there were intelligence about these groups why didn’t the person responsible for Capitol security put any safeguards in place? 12 minutes ago, Leftfield said: Would you really say the same had it been a Democrat? Prior to the election Democrats did warn of voter suppression and/or fraud. It just so happens they won and all those concerns turned to proving there were no fraud. It really is hilarious. The rest of you accusations are going on trail in Ga I believe. We’ll just have to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 8,012 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 14 minutes ago, arein0 said: That's ironic coming from you. I would say @auburnatl1 is one of the few independent thinkers here. No, he is an anti-Trumper that is against the Republican Party just because of Trump. He has lost any real conviction of thought because of Trump. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 8,012 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 15 minutes ago, Leftfield said: Ah, so if someone plots to have me murdered, but fail to go through with it, there's no crime? Or if they take a shot and miss? I feel much better about our legal system now. You really are stretching here. Plotting to have someone murdered is a crime, but it has to be proven beyond conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,461 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) The insurrection was made clear by Mike Pence testifying to the pressure put on him by Trump to disallow electoral votes fairly won by Biden. Thus the "hang Mike Pence" chant. Too bad they didn't do it, I would have loved to see how the MAGAs would dismiss that. Only a cultist would deny there was no attempt by Trump to circumvent a fair election (aka "insurrection"). Edited January 8 by homersapien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftfield 2,676 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 19 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: You really are stretching here. Plotting to have someone murdered is a crime... ...so what ifs do matter in our legal system.... 19 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: ...but it has to be proven beyond conjecture. ....and you're saying they're more difficult to prove in court. Man, if only someone would say something that proves my earlier points exactly. As a bonus, it would be so sweet if the person I'm debating were to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU9377 5,051 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 43 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: Just because you want Trump to be at fault doesn’t mean he is. At that time Trump had the ability to command military intervention and none of that happened. Ultimately there was a peaceful transfer of power, albeit delayed, but the system worked. There was not a threat of the republic falling that day. All the what ifs you can conjure didn’t happen and the law is not based on what ifs; conjecture and narratives are. I’m pleased you are an independent. If you could only think that way. You cannot believe that what happened that day is in any way ok. Members of Congress were rushed into safe rooms and the doors to the chamber were temporarily blocked in an effort to keep thugs out that had no business being there. The information they were being fed that the election was stolen or invalid was all based on proven LIES. You cannot be fine with that and simultaneously claim to support everything this country has ever stood for. This is NOT about social culture war topics. This is about the fabric of what holds the country together............. the respect for our electoral process and the constitution that provides for legal redress of grievances by way of courts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftfield 2,676 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 23 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: No, he is an anti-Trumper that is against the Republican Party just because of Trump. He has lost any real conviction of thought because of Trump. Holy f***muffins. He's one of the most level-headed posters on here. Some of the others are right....you really have become totally delusional. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 8,012 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 16 minutes ago, Leftfield said: ...so what ifs do matter in our legal system.... If they can be proven. You were trying to present the possibility that IF the Capitol Chambers were breached AND someone were injured, Trump committed a crime. It doesn’t work that way. 21 minutes ago, Leftfield said: ....and you're saying they're more difficult to prove in court. Man, if only someone would say something that proves my earlier points exactly. As a bonus, it would be so sweet if the person I'm debating were to do that. Wrong. Please see if you can prove Trump committed a crime based on my first statement. You can’t and Jack Smith hasn’t indicted or charged Trump with insurrection because he can’t prosecute on conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 8,012 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 23 minutes ago, AU9377 said: You cannot believe that what happened that day is in any way ok I believe I said they were discussing and that is not OK. 24 minutes ago, AU9377 said: You cannot be fine with that and simultaneously claim to support everything this country has ever stood for. I said it was disgusting, but stop short of saying it was an insurrection. It wasn’t. 25 minutes ago, AU9377 said: This is NOT about social culture war topics. This is about the fabric of what holds the country together............. the respect for our electoral process and the constitution that provides for legal redress of grievances by way of courts. I don’t disagree with your statement. What I don’t like is the media telling me it was the darkest day in American history when my eyes and thoughts know it wasn’t. It was a discusting display of emotion, it was not organized with no intent other than to get into the Capitol. When they got in, there was no purpose. It was like a dog chasing a car and not knowing what to do when it catches the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 8,012 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 32 minutes ago, Leftfield said: Holy f***muffins. He's one of the most level-headed posters on here. Some of the others are right....you really have become totally delusional. Auburnalt1 has virtue signaled his thoughts so that he has no conviction just because of Trump. Anything the Republicans come up with he is against independent of if it is a good idea or not. Biden is the worst President in our history and he has defended him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftfield 2,676 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 22 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: You were trying to present the possibility that IF the Capitol Chambers were breached AND someone were injured, Trump committed a crime. I asked if that had happened, would it be enough for you to drop the "everybody is gaslighting" garbage. That part was not a question about Trump. 26 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: Wrong. Please see if you can prove Trump committed a crime based on my first statement. You can’t and Jack Smith hasn’t indicted or charged Trump with insurrection because he can’t prosecute on conjecture. My earlier points were that Trump is fantastic at saying stuff without saying it, which is why it would be difficult to prosecute in court, which is why Smith is leaning into the Conspiracy charge (which, after all, was the bigger threat against the government, anyway). So, yes, you were proving my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 8,012 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, Leftfield said: I asked if that had happened, would it be enough for you to drop the "everybody is gaslighting" garbage. That part was not a question about Trump. My earlier points were that Trump is fantastic at saying stuff without saying it, which is why it would be difficult to prosecute in court, which is why Smith is leaning into the Conspiracy charge (which, after all, was the bigger threat against the government, anyway). So, yes, you were proving my point. You do like to twist my words, so go ahead believe what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftfield 2,676 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 21 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: Auburnalt1 has virtue signaled his thoughts so that he has no conviction just because of Trump. Anything the Republicans come up with he is against independent of if it is a good idea or not. Biden is the worst President in our history and he has defended him. "Virtue signaling." My God, you're just a walking bag of terms used to dismiss thought aren't you? @auburnatl1turns against the radicalization of the Republican Party, and say he's a RINO? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 8,012 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, Leftfield said: "Virtue signaling." My God, you're just a walking bag of terms used to dismiss thought aren't you? @auburnatl1turns against the radicalization of the Republican Party, and say he's a RINO? So, why did he have to announce it? He could have just kept quiet about it. That’s called virtue signaling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftfield 2,676 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said: So, why did he have to announce it? He could have just kept quiet about it. That’s called virtue signaling. Could you share his announcement? I didn't realize he'd made one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 8,012 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 hours ago, auburnatl1 said: It’s amazing how differently people see 1/6. I can’t decide if the people who watched it literally don’t see it as a big deal or are so enamored with trump that they will blame anyone/ everyone or minimize anything. The end justifies the means I guess. Again, I changed my affiliation from Republican to independent 2 months after it out of sheer disgust. Maga always muscle memory changes this conversation to being about Biden. It isn’t. This is purely about Trump. Again, there are other choices that have conservative values who aren’t self absorbed destructive. Whole mindset is beyond me to understand. 3 minutes ago, Leftfield said: Could you share his announcement? I didn't realize he'd made one. Here you go, oh and you liked the comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftfield 2,676 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 8 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: Here you go, oh and you liked the comment. You consider that virtue signaling? Hell, Mitt Romney's retiring because the party is such a mess. Do you consider that virtue signaling? On second thought, don't answer that...I know what MAGAs think of traditional Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 8,012 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 22 minutes ago, Leftfield said: You consider that virtue signaling? When someone makes a statement on this board capitulating to the masses, yes I consider it virtue signaling. There is no other reason for it. What Mitt Romney did is fall on his sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftfield 2,676 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 28 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: When someone makes a statement on this board capitulating to the masses, yes I consider it virtue signaling. There is no other reason for it. What Mitt Romney did is fall on his sword. Lol...capitulation to the masses. Because you disagree, it's impossible that they can actually think for themselves, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arein0 977 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Leftfield said: You consider that virtue signaling? Hell, Mitt Romney's retiring because the party is such a mess. Do you consider that virtue signaling? On second thought, don't answer that...I know what MAGAs think of traditional Republicans. I don't think he understands what virtue signaling actually is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnatl1 5,102 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said: Auburnalt1 has virtue signaled his thoughts so that he has no conviction just because of Trump. Anything the Republicans come up with he is against independent of if it is a good idea or not. Biden is the worst President in our history and he has defended him. Again, this isn’t about Biden. It’s simply about Trump and who he is. I can’t decide if you actually believe what you’re saying or are just bored and enjoy the smack. I could support Haley, Manchin, or even Desantis, but if you can’t see Trump is a cancer and breaks a lot more things than he fix’s - which seems like a waters wet thing - no point in continuing. Edited January 8 by auburnatl1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 8,012 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 22 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said: Again, this isn’t about Biden. It’s simply about Trump and who he is. I can’t decide if you actually believe what you’re saying or are just bored and enjoy the smack. I could support Haley, Manchin, or even Desantis, but if you can’t see Trump is a cancer and breaks a lot more things than he fix’s - which seems like a waters wet thing - no point in continuing. Biden is running the country, so it is about Biden. He will be one half of the choice we make in November. I hope the other isn’t Trump. I firmly believe Biden is worse for the country than Trump would be and I respect your decision not to vote for Trump and why. Trump will always have constraints place on him by Congress, Biden doesn’t seem to abide by SCOTUS rulings or has a work around Constitutional law. Which is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnatl1 5,102 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Just now, I_M4_AU said: Biden is running the country, so it is about Biden. He will be one half of the choice we make in November. I hope the other isn’t Trump. I firmly believe Biden is worse for the country than Trump would be and I respect your decision not to vote for Trump and why. Trump will always have constraints place on him by Congress, Biden doesn’t seem to abide by SCOTUS rulings or has a work around Constitutional law. Which is better? Once things get to the general election and if there are no viable 3rd party options - then imo you’re entitled to your lesser of 2 evils argument. Im not comparing 1/6 to Pearl Harbor or 9/11, it wasn’t. But those were external enemies. The reaction to 1/6 isn’t hysteria - people watched its scale, intent, and outcome. Crazy on full display. And it took hours before Trump finally called it off. It was dangerous and yes traitorous. I get that Biden is unfit mentally and was very mediocre before that. And that he has some leftist activists in his administration. It’s my kick 6 hope that both the Dems and GOP will man up, moderate, and trade up on our options. If not, I’m hoping for a viable 3rd party candidate. Otherwise, 10 months of who’s dumber or more like hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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