5 undeniably good things ....

[AURaptor 1,126]

Tax cuts - Spurred on the economy which has gotten stronger and stronger.

Justice Rorberts - sound, brilliant and founded in the Constitution.

Justice Alito - same

John Bolton - An outstanding choice to speak for the country at a hostile United Nations.

And yes, even taking down Saddam - Letting Saddam stay in power was tried, by W's dad. It simply didn't work. And w/ Saddam's penchant for helping terrorist, along w/ his long list of UN violations, it was fool hearty to simply let this continue on as it would have.

[Jenny AU-92 0]

Make that 6 things:

Lowest unemployment ratings in 4 and a half years - 4.7%

[CircleDrill 178]

Everything you guys said is true. It's just a shame you have to come here or the Drudge Report to see it. Everybody else is too busy covering Cindy Sheehan or creating a feaux gas crisis.

[rexbo 104]

And these accomplishments are against the backdrop of 9/11, a very hostile national media and uncooperative Allies.

Bill's 'accomplishments' were simply built on the boom of the internet revolution (which happened of course because Gore invented the internet), which then blew up before he left office. And of course Osama was planning and plotting 9/11 while Bill was busy chasing Monica around the Oval Office...

[Tigermike 3,053]

But if you listen to the dims, we are going to hellO on a fast train.

[TexasTiger 13,017]

Ah, life in lala land... :robot:

[TexasTiger 13,017]

Make that 6 things:

Lowest unemployment ratings in 4 and a half years - 4.7%

234010[/snapback]

Of course, he has been there for more than five years.

[AURaptor 1,126]

Make that 6 things:

Lowest unemployment ratings in 4 and a half years - 4.7%

234010[/snapback]

Of course, he has been there for more than five years.

234125[/snapback]

You conviently overlook the fact that Bush had to deal w/ the stock market bust, the dot coms going belly up, 9/11 and the Clinton/Gore recession.

[quietfan 233]

Yes, it certainly is a rosey economy: The gap between the rich and the poor continues to grow, the middle class gets hit the hardest, and CEO's continue to get their multi-million dollar perks and retire with their golden parachutes while many of the working poor can't even afford basic medical care for their families. Meanwhile, the federal debt continues to grow so we can avoid collecting the taxes necessary to live within our means.

Let me borrow without limit, ignore any pangs of conscience over the plight of the poor, and leave my kids to pay the bill, and I can live a pretty rosey life too.

[AURaptor 1,126]

Yes, it certainly is a rosey economy:  The gap between the rich and the poor continues to grow,  the middle class gets hit the hardest, and CEO's continue to get their multi-million dollar perks and retire with their golden parachutes while many of the working poor can't even afford basic medical care for their families.  Meanwhile, the federal debt continues to grow so we can avoid collecting the taxes necessary to live within our means.

Let me borrow without limit, ignore any pangs of conscience over the plight of the poor, and leave my kids to pay the bill, and I can live a pretty rosey life too.

234137[/snapback]

My, you sure did get the Left wing talking points down pat. Gap between rich/poor, hatred of big business , healthcare, attackng the tax cuts, so on and so forth. The 'poor' continue to be 'poor' because they keep doing the same things that keep them poor in the first place. Same goes w/ the Rich. You keep w/ this nonsensical mindset that 'the poor' and 'the rich' are clearly defined groups and that never can one do better over time and lift themselves out of their current situation. CEO's ? Gee, if they sign a contract , live up to the terms of that contract and grow the company over time....they should just give some of the $$ back? Who said anything about avoiding tax collection? Fact is, more tax $$ was collected this year than ever. Here in GA, for example, the state is $ 1 BILLION ahead of the same time as last year, and that's taking into account that the Gov suspended the State tax on gasoline for a month. That's an entire month's worth of taxes of 15 cents for every gallon sold in GA . What IS scary is that our kids WILL be paying for the Social Security tax hike, which W tried to get a jump on and start solving now. The cowards in Congress balked, and nothing got done. Can't blame W for that.

[TexasTiger 13,017]

Yes, it certainly is a rosey economy:  The gap between the rich and the poor continues to grow,  the middle class gets hit the hardest, and CEO's continue to get their multi-million dollar perks and retire with their golden parachutes while many of the working poor can't even afford basic medical care for their families.  Meanwhile, the federal debt continues to grow so we can avoid collecting the taxes necessary to live within our means.

Let me borrow without limit, ignore any pangs of conscience over the plight of the poor, and leave my kids to pay the bill, and I can live a pretty rosey life too.

234137[/snapback]

It gets better! We did not just go from the first surpluses in 30 years to being debtors, we are the biggest debtor to Communist China! Those freedom hating Commies! This Republican administration is soooo weak, we now have to hold our collective hand out to Communist China just to pay the bills.

Yeah, we were told that Bush's tax cuts would stimulate the economy soooo much that we would just grow ourselves out of the deepest deficit spending in our history. But now we're told the economy is just rip roaring along, and yet...we still have huge deficits. Thank God for Communist China, and Arab dictators, Bush's chief patrons.

So to recap, this is the true state of our national security- We have to rely on Arab dictators for oil, and the largest Communist country in the world for loans. They control the value of our currency. Think we'll stand up to them anytime soon?

But yep, we've got Samuel Alito, so everything is peachy keen!

[TexasTiger 13,017]

Yes, it certainly is a rosey economy:  The gap between the rich and the poor continues to grow,  the middle class gets hit the hardest, and CEO's continue to get their multi-million dollar perks and retire with their golden parachutes while many of the working poor can't even afford basic medical care for their families.  Meanwhile, the federal debt continues to grow so we can avoid collecting the taxes necessary to live within our means.

Let me borrow without limit, ignore any pangs of conscience over the plight of the poor, and leave my kids to pay the bill, and I can live a pretty rosey life too.

234137[/snapback]

My, you sure did get the Left wing talking points down pat. Gap between rich/poor, hatred of big business , healthcare, attackng the tax cuts, so on and so forth. The 'poor' continue to be 'poor' because they keep doing the same things that keep them poor in the first place. Same goes w/ the Rich. You keep w/ this nonsensical mindset that 'the poor' and 'the rich' are clearly defined groups and that never can one do better over time and lift themselves out of their current situation. CEO's ? Gee, if they sign a contract , live up to the terms of that contract and grow the company over time....they should just give some of the $$ back? Who said anything about avoiding tax collection? Fact is, more tax $$ was collected this year than ever. Here in GA, for example, the state is $ 1 BILLION ahead of the same time as last year, and that's taking into account that the Gov suspended the State tax on gasoline for a month. That's an entire month's worth of taxes of 15 cents for every gallon sold in GA . What IS scary is that our kids WILL be paying for the Social Security tax hike, which W tried to get a jump on and start solving now. The cowards in Congress balked, and nothing got done. Can't blame W for that.

234138[/snapback]

If you knew anything about the actual state of executive pay, you would know that many CEO's don't have to produce or "live up the terms of their contract" to get their bonuses.

Research how Cheney got his bonuses without "living up" to the terms of his Halliburton contract. But they knew what they were doing. They've been richly rewarded.

This is the myth. The rich get richer because they work harder. I've known a helluva lot of rich people that aren't that bright, don't work that hard, or at all, and still get richer. I'll give you an example that even you can deal with. Think Kennedys.

[rexbo 104]

It gets better!  We did not just go from the first surpluses in 30 years to being debtors, we are the biggest debtor to Communist China!  Those freedom hating Commies!  This Republican administration is soooo weak, we now have to hold our collective hand out to Communist China just to pay the bills.

Shhhh, be quiet before the Chinese figure this one out. We give them our little green pieces of paper for all of those real goods they send us; and then we ask to 'borrow' those green pieces of paper back, so then they can send us some more of those real goods. We don't want them to figure out we are getting something real and tangible, and they are just getting dollar bills...

[AURaptor 1,126]

Research how Cheney got his bonuses without "living up" to the terms of his Halliburton contract. But they knew what they were doing. They've been richly rewarded.

This is the myth. The rich get richer because they work harder. I've known a helluva lot of rich people that aren't that bright, don't work that hard, or at all, and still get richer. I'll give you an example that even you can deal with. Think Kennedys.

You're the one whos so bent about Cheney, you do the research. I was referring mainly to Exxon's CEO, and his 'golden parachute' .

As for the Kennedys, they're more the exception than the norm. Most millionaires are 1st generation, and are NOT the silver spooned brat grandsons of bootleggers.

But keep on believing yoru myths.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

Hee, Hee, Hee, Bush is dumb### and everyone knows except the kool-aide crowd. Dubya broke Texas, now he's breaking America.

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Stor...D&siteid=google

[TexasTiger 13,017]

Research how Cheney got his bonuses without "living up" to the terms of his Halliburton contract. But they knew what they were doing. They've been richly rewarded.

This is the myth. The rich get richer because they work harder. I've known a helluva lot of rich people that aren't that bright, don't work that hard, or at all, and still get richer. I'll give you an example that even you can deal with. Think Kennedys.

You're the one whos so bent about Cheney, you do the research. I was referring mainly to Exxon's CEO, and his 'golden parachute' .

As for the Kennedys, they're more the exception than the norm. Most millionaires are 1st generation, and are NOT the silver spooned brat grandsons of bootleggers.

But keep on believing yoru myths.

234153[/snapback]

Here's your favorite myth:

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Emperors-New-Clothes.htm

[AURaptor 1,126]

Didn't think you could some up w/ anything of substance. Check back w/ me when you care to talk on an adult level, k?

[TexasTiger 13,017]

Didn't think you could some up w/ anything of substance.  Check back w/ me when you care to talk on an adult level, k? 

234163[/snapback]

And leave you out of the conversation?

[AURaptor 1,126]

And leave you out of the conversation?

TT, by that measure, you were left out of the discussion a VERY long time ago.

[TexasTiger 13,017]

And leave you out of the conversation?

TT, by that measure, you were left out of the discussion a VERY long time ago.

234175[/snapback]

I served you some substance upthread. Of course, you didn't reply to it. Guess you agree.

It gets better! We did not just go from the first surpluses in 30 years to being debtors, we are the biggest debtor to Communist China! Those freedom hating Commies! This Republican administration is soooo weak, we now have to hold our collective hand out to Communist China just to pay the bills.

Yeah, we were told that Bush's tax cuts would stimulate the economy soooo much that we would just grow ourselves out of the deepest deficit spending in our history. But now we're told the economy is just rip roaring along, and yet...we still have huge deficits. Thank God for Communist China, and Arab dictators, Bush's chief patrons.

So to recap, this is the true state of our national security- We have to rely on Arab dictators for oil, and the largest Communist country in the world for loans. They control the value of our currency. Think we'll stand up to them anytime soon?

[DKW 86 7,440]

http://aconstrainedvision.blogspot.com/200...-next-door.html

5.05.2005

The millionaires next door

George Mason University economist Walter Williams compiles some facts about America's 8.2 million households worth a million dollars or more--a number that is 33 percent higher than it was in 2003. The overwhelming majority of these folks are self-made millionaires, proving that economic mobility is alive and well:

Who are these people portrayed either as winners in life's lottery or who got rich by exploiting the poor? One thing for sure is that they're not the sons and daughters of the Rockefellers, the Kennedys or the Vanderbilts. According to Drs. Thomas Stanley and William Danko's research published in their book "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy," 80 percent of today's American millionaires are first-generation rich.

Drs. Stanley and Danko listed other characteristics of these 8.2 million millionaire households. Fewer than 20 percent inherited 10 percent or more of their wealth. More than half never received as much as a dollar in inheritance. Fewer than 25 percent received "an act of kindness" from a relative greater than $10,000, and 91 percent never received, as a gift, as much as $1 from the ownership of a family business....

This points to one of the most unique features of our nation. Just because you know where a person ended up in life is no guarantee that you can tell where he started. In other words, there is so much economic mobility in our society that starting out with modest means or even being dirt poor does not prevent one from ending up at the top.

According to IRS tax data, 85.8 percent of tax filers in the bottom fifth in 1979 had moved on to a higher quintile, and often to the top quintile, by 1988.

[CCTAU 3,345]

But. But. This can't be right. The gap is growing because the evil rich republicans are keeping all the money to themselves. The poor are getting poorer because those new rich republicans who just became millionaires stole their share from the poor. Oh lord. If this is true, then CNN is a left wing haven for idiots.

Must be true.......

[TexasTiger 13,017]

http://aconstrainedvision.blogspot.com/200...-next-door.html

5.05.2005

The millionaires next door

George Mason University economist Walter Williams compiles some facts about America's 8.2 million households worth a million dollars or more--a number that is 33 percent higher than it was in 2003. The overwhelming majority of these folks are self-made millionaires, proving that economic mobility is alive and well:

Who are these people portrayed either as winners in life's lottery or who got rich by exploiting the poor? One thing for sure is that they're not the sons and daughters of the Rockefellers, the Kennedys or the Vanderbilts. According to Drs. Thomas Stanley and William Danko's research published in their book "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy," 80 percent of today's American millionaires are first-generation rich.

Drs. Stanley and Danko listed other characteristics of these 8.2 million millionaire households. Fewer than 20 percent inherited 10 percent or more of their wealth. More than half never received as much as a dollar in inheritance. Fewer than 25 percent received "an act of kindness" from a relative greater than $10,000, and 91 percent never received, as a gift, as much as $1 from the ownership of a family business....

This points to one of the most unique features of our nation. Just because you know where a person ended up in life is no guarantee that you can tell where he started. In other words, there is so much economic mobility in our society that starting out with modest means or even being dirt poor does not prevent one from ending up at the top.

According to IRS tax data, 85.8 percent of tax filers in the bottom fifth in 1979 had moved on to a higher quintile, and often to the top quintile, by 1988.

234395[/snapback]

This a reply to what, exactly?

[DKW 86 7,440]

Yes, it certainly is a rosey economy:  The gap between the rich and the poor continues to grow,  the middle class gets hit the hardest, and CEO's continue to get their multi-million dollar perks and retire with their golden parachutes while many of the working poor can't even afford basic medical care for their families.  Meanwhile, the federal debt continues to grow so we can avoid collecting the taxes necessary to live within our means.

Let me borrow without limit, ignore any pangs of conscience over the plight of the poor, and leave my kids to pay the bill, and I can live a pretty rosey life too.

234137[/snapback]

This stuff right here.

[quietfan 233]

http://aconstrainedvision.blogspot.com/200...-next-door.html

5.05.2005

The millionaires next door

George Mason University economist Walter Williams compiles some facts about America's 8.2 million households worth a million dollars or more--a number that is 33 percent higher than it was in 2003. The overwhelming majority of these folks are self-made millionaires, proving that economic mobility is alive and well:

Who are these people portrayed either as winners in life's lottery or who got rich by exploiting the poor? One thing for sure is that they're not the sons and daughters of the Rockefellers, the Kennedys or the Vanderbilts. According to Drs. Thomas Stanley and William Danko's research published in their book "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy," 80 percent of today's American millionaires are first-generation rich.

Drs. Stanley and Danko listed other characteristics of these 8.2 million millionaire households. Fewer than 20 percent inherited 10 percent or more of their wealth. More than half never received as much as a dollar in inheritance. Fewer than 25 percent received "an act of kindness" from a relative greater than $10,000, and 91 percent never received, as a gift, as much as $1 from the ownership of a family business....

This points to one of the most unique features of our nation. Just because you know where a person ended up in life is no guarantee that you can tell where he started. In other words, there is so much economic mobility in our society that starting out with modest means or even being dirt poor does not prevent one from ending up at the top.

According to IRS tax data, 85.8 percent of tax filers in the bottom fifth in 1979 had moved on to a higher quintile, and often to the top quintile, by 1988.

234395[/snapback]

This a reply to what, exactly?

234419[/snapback]

It might be worth noting that the book, "The Millionaire Next Door” (T. Stanley & W. Denko) quoted by Dr. Williams was copyrighted in 1996 (ten years and one president ago): http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0671015206...ing=UTF8&p=S006

I haven’t been able to track down the survey from which he takes his 8.2 million household figure, so I can’t challenge him on that. I’d be curious to see more details from this survey however:

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/wa...5/04/15311.html

According to TNS Financial Services' 2004 Affluent Market Research survey, there are an estimated 8.2 million American households with assets, excluding primary residences, worth over $1 million. That's a 33 percent increase over the 6.2 million millionaire households in 2003.

But here’s some other figures to consider (chiefly from the US government’s own Census Bureau, which I think could be said to be relatively fair and objective):

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,3604,1559518,00.html

US poverty figure rises for 4th year

David Teather in New York

Wednesday August 31, 2005

The Guardian

The number of Americans living below the poverty line rose for the fourth successive year during 2004, extending the gap between rich and poor in the world's wealthiest nation.

The US census bureau said the number of people living in poverty rose to 37 million, up from 35.9 million in 2003. The percentage in poverty increased from 12.5% to 12.7%.

The latest figures mean that the number of poor Americans has grown every year under the Bush administration, despite an economy that has been growing robustly. They also provide some evidence of the lack of impact the much trumpeted tax cuts have had on the less well off.

Since President Bush won the 2000 election, the number of people living in poverty in the US has grown from 31.1 million - an additional 6 million people. The number without health insurance also rose again last year, from 45 million to 45.8 million.

The figures were published at the same time as a report from the leading labour federation found that increasing numbers of working Americans feel they are being left behind. Out of more than 800 workers, 70% said their standard of living was slipping.

At the other end of the scale, a survey of the biggest US companies by compensation consultancy Pearl Meyer found the average payout for chief executives rose 13% in 2004 to $10.5m.

Asians were the only ethnic group in the census to show a decline in poverty - from 11.8% in 2003 to 9.8% last year. The largest increase was among non-Hispanic whites, with an 8.6% poverty rate, up from 8.2% in 2003.

The median household income in 2004 was $44,389, flat on the previous year. Asian households earned the most, $57,518, and African Americans the lowest, $30,134.

Sheldon Danziger, co-director of the National Poverty Centre at the University of Michigan, said: "The good news is that poverty is a lot lower than it was in 1993, but we went through a hell of an economic boom. Nobody is predicting we're going to go through another economic boom like that."

So to recap, :

According to Danziger, poverty declined from 1993 to 2000, right in the middle of which Stanley and Danko wrote their book. Since 2000, however, (according to the government's own Census Bureau) the number of people living in poverty has increased every year. Also according to the Census Bureau, the number without health insuranace also increased..again...in 2004. Meanwhile, according to consultants at Pearl Meyer, the average payout for chief executives rose 13% in the same year.