I defy you to defend this.

[CCTAU 3,345]

For every one of your so-called atrocities, I can give you almost 300 million people who have had no problems at all. Just open a phone book.

One tragedy does not a holocaust make.

Actually. Most Americans are appalled by torture. It has never been policy in the American military or American intelligence. We have fought for more desperate conflicts where it was never used. In fact, ask an intelligence officer, and he'll be the first to tell you that torture is a terrible way to get useful information. What you get is somebody who will tell you whatever he thinks you want to know just so he can get a few moments of respite.

What I don't understand is your apparent blindness to the immorality of it.

You missed the boat on this one didn't you. I said that almost 300 million people did not have the problem of getting tortured. I didn't say they don't care. Damn. Talking about looking for something to defend.....

I didn't say it was right. I just said it was not the end of the world as some would make it out to be....

[CCTAU 3,345]

Guys like you and Raptor have to have it happen to you before you get it.

Hey Pot, sounds like you are trying to equate your lack of fear of terrorists to our ability to trust that we won't commit anything remotely terroristic. Until you or your family takes a bomb up the wazoo, its all just, "buying into the fear."

I would rather "buy into the fear" than make such a big deal out of one man supposedly getting tortured. OOOOHHH! I see a new holocaust coming any day now.

[TexasTiger 13,017]

Last time I read, we were supposed to be fighting a war for the preservation of Western Civilization. That's supposed to include rule of law and constitutional rights.

Neither of us knows what Padilla has done.

Are you really this trusting?

In this situation, yes.

Would you trust President Hillary Clinton with this authority?

[AURaptor 1,126]

Would you trust President Hillary Clinton with this authority?

I would hope that the people were reminded that Hillary and Bill 'borrowed' several hundred confidential FBI files of their political rivals, illegally, and we'd never get to the point where your question is even an issue.

[DKW 86 7,440]

Hell you guys are forgetting the totally fictitious charges brought against the travel folks for no other reason than getting Hillary's pals stinking rich. Hillary will absolutely abuse the power she is given. That we KNOW will happen.

[TexasTiger 13,017]

Would you trust President Hillary Clinton with this authority?

I would hope that the people were reminded that Hillary and Bill 'borrowed' several hundred confidential FBI files of their political rivals, illegally, and we'd never get to the point where your question is even an issue.

The point is, presidential power resides with whomever the president is. Are you okay with that?

[otterinbham 0]

Essentially, we've been talking about the Imperial Presidency for years. We finally have given it political legitimacy.

It's really simple. If you endorse torture, then you betray every single principle this country was founded upon. You spit in the face of the Founding Fathers, saying "Hey, that was then but this is now."

I don't agree with Texas Tiger on many things, but at least he understands that the strength of his country begins and ends with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Weaken those two documents, and the entire fabric of the country falls apart.

[AURaptor 1,126]

Essentially, we've been talking about the Imperial Presidency for years. We finally have given it political legitimacy.

It's really simple. If you endorse torture, then you betray every single principle this country was founded upon. You spit in the face of the Founding Fathers, saying "Hey, that was then but this is now."

I don't agree with Texas Tiger on many things, but at least he understands that the strength of his country begins and ends with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Weaken those two documents, and the entire fabric of the country falls apart.

Neither you nor T.T knows what you're talking about.

The point is, presidential power resides with whomever the president is. Are you okay with that?

Presidential power, yes. Does that mean I have to agree with everything that every President does ? Hell no. But President Bush didn't enact the Patriot Act all by himself. Or had you forgotten that fine detail ?

Here's a little quote for ya - " Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Kinda cool ". Now, can you tell me who said it and when? And do YOU agree ?

[TexasTiger 13,017]

Neither you nor T.T knows what you're talking about.

What exactly do you disagree with?

Here's a little quote for ya - " Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Kinda cool ". Now, can you tell me who said it and when? And do YOU agree ?

Paul Begala. Paul tends to simplify and overstate. Nice guy, though.

Executive orders are the rule of law-- unless Congress passes a law that trumps one, which they can do. Exec. Orders can also be challenged in Court.

So which Executive Orders of Clinton did you think threatened the Republic?

[AURaptor 1,126]

It's really simple. If you endorse torture, then you betray every single principle this country was founded upon. You spit in the face of the Founding Fathers, saying "Hey, that was then but this is now."

That depends on what your definition of torture is. Unlike Clinton's version, the word 'torture' is important. Playing patty cake w/ terrorist who vowed to murder as many civilians as they can isn't what our Founders had in mind.

Not even by a long stretch.

I don't agree with Texas Tiger on many things, but at least he understands that the strength of his country begins and ends with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Weaken those two documents, and the entire fabric of the country falls apart.

When folks make absurd claims that the Constitution is being weakened by us defending ourselves , then this argument is moot.

[TexasTiger 13,017]

It's really simple. If you endorse torture, then you betray every single principle this country was founded upon. You spit in the face of the Founding Fathers, saying "Hey, that was then but this is now."

That depends on what your definition of torture is. Unlike Clinton's version, the word 'torture' is important. Playing patty cake w/ terrorist who vowed to murder as many civilians as they can isn't what our Founders had in mind.

Not even by a long stretch.

I don't agree with Texas Tiger on many things, but at least he understands that the strength of his country begins and ends with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Weaken those two documents, and the entire fabric of the country falls apart.

When folks make absurd claims that the Constitution is being weakened by us defending ourselves , then this argument is moot.

In other words, you have no argument.

[AURaptor 1,126]

In other words, you have no argument.

Apparently, none of which with you are capable or willing of dealing.

[CCTAU 3,345]

Dims only believe in parts of the constitution and bill of rights. And only then when they can legislate a different intent than the founding fathers. The second amendment is a perfect example of how dims believe in the bill of rights......