Mr. President! Congress!! Support our troops!!

[Donutboy 0]

Mr. President. Congress. Why can we spend money like it's going out of style to give multi-billion dollar, taxpayer-funded gifts to Insurance companies, the banking industry, oil companies, et al, and talk about making another Moon shot but we can't adequately protect our troops?

Lack of armor?

By Natalie Goodale / CNC Staff Writer

Sunday, December 7, 2003

BEDFORD -- As American deaths in Iraq continue to mount, the fight to stop them has become personal for two Bedford parents who think their son's death could have been prevented.

Brian and Alma Hart of Bedford are the parents of Army Pfc. John Hart, 20, who died when his patrol was ambushed Oct. 18 in Iraq.

Hart was manning the machine gun in the third Humvee of a group of three when the vehicles came under attack. The first two Humvees escaped as Hart shot at their attackers, but Hart was shot several times and died, his parent's said. His lieutenant, in the same Humvee, also died after bleeding to death.

Before Hart's death, his parents heard hints of concern from their son about the lack of body and vehicle armor in Iraq. When John Hart died, his parents said it became obvious this was more than a small concern. And now, as more soldiers die and the Harts hear the stories of those who survived, they have vowed to do something about it.

Lack of armor?

[Donutboy 0]

Hey Tiger In Spain, since you accuse Dean of wanting to cut military expenses, what about this issue? How do you decide in the field who gets the added protection and who goes without. I know that wouldn't cause a problem with morale like having gays in the military would but I could see a problem if I were the one denied protection.

[Ranger12 46]

Again, you make comments about nothing you know anything about, but you only go by some biased article you read. I will ask this question again, are you over there to know exactly what is going on? Have you ever been in combat to know how it works to justify all your negativity towards Bush and how the war is handled? I can tell you this, no matter what war or how much money is spent on the military, we are going to lose lives and others are going to try to find fault with somebody. Distraught parents that lose their kids are one of the firsts to do that because they are feeling so much pain, they have to direct it somewhere. This is not the first time that the government will be blamed and it will not be the last. It would be great if nobody would die in war, but good gosh man, be realistic and quit going by this bs you keep reading about. Why don't you talk to some of the men over there now or just got back and see what they say about what the government provided with and then talk to vets from WWII and Vietnam about what they had. I think you will see that our military of today is the best equipped it has ever been. There are going to always be naysayers, but you present them like they are the gospel truth. Where are your facts?

[Donutboy 0]

Again, you make comments about nothing you know anything about, but you only go by some biased article you read. I will ask this question again, are you over there to know exactly what is going on? Have you ever been in combat to know how it works to justify all your negativity towards Bush and how the war is handled? I can tell you this, no matter what war or how much money is spent on the military, we are going to lose lives and others are going to try to find fault with somebody. Distraught parents that lose their kids are one of the firsts to do that because they are feeling so much pain, they have to direct it somewhere. This is not the first time that the government will be blamed and it will not be the last. It would be great if nobody would die in war, but good gosh man, be realistic and quit going by this bs you keep reading about. Why don't you talk to some of the men over there now or just got back and see what they say about what the government provided with and then talk to vets from WWII and Vietnam about what they had. I think you will see that our military of today is the best equipped it has ever been. There are going to always be naysayers, but you present them like they are the gospel truth. Where are your facts?

Is the war being fought in Decatur, Alabama? You can get off your high horse because you don't know any more than I do what's going on over there. The statements in the article were made by the parents of a soldier killed in battle over there. Their concerns were based on concerns their son had before his death. THEY'RE the ones concerned that our troops are not adequately protected. THEY'RE the ones raising funds to try and get more of these protective vests over there for the surviving troops, even though they've lost THEIR son. THEY'RE the ones asking our government to spend a few extra dollars to provide more protection. With the billion$ that we can give to companies making record profits, why can't we provide the basic necessities for our troops. Patriotism is more than waving a flag and declaring; "Look at me. I'm supporting our troops." Patriotism is asking the tough questions and demanding better when our government is failing us. Patriotism is demanding that our government provide those vests to our troops. How many of our troops were killed needlessly when one of the vests could have saved their lives? Think about that one before you blindly pledge allegiance to the Republican president of the United States of America!!

[AUloggerhead 2,255]

Here's some information on troops form Ft Lewis, WA, that will be deployed to Iraq very soon. The protective body armor they received before deploying is supposed to stop high-velocity small arms fire. Link

Fort Lewis troops armored to the teeth

EIJIRO KAWADA; The News Tribune

From body armor that blocks assault-rifle rounds, to wick-away sports bras that keep the body sweat free, the Army is quickly outfitting 81st Armor Brigade soldiers at Fort Lewis with top-of-the-line equipment.

The speed - part of the Army's Rapid Fielding Initiative - is unprecedented.

It's furnishing the 4,200 National Guard soldiers with essential items in months or even weeks, instead of the years it used to take under traditional procurement methods.

"This is the new way that the Army is doing its business," said Capt. Anne Marie Peacock, public affairs officer for the brigade.

By Tuesday, each of the brigade's soldiers will have received a duffel bag full of REI-type items, including black fleece bibs for cold weather, breathable desert boots made of Gore-Tex and silk-weight underwear.

The $2,500-a-soldier investment gives some comfort to the soldiers, who were activated Nov. 15 for an 18-month duty, including a year in Iraq.

"I feel a lot better," said Noah Michael Poe, a 25-year-old mechanic who joined the National Guard not to go to war but to pay for college.

"We've got the support of our government," said the Tri-Cities native, a member of the 181st Support Battalion.

Poe is one of more than 3,200 Washington National Guard soldiers recently put on active duty. The rest of the 81st brigade came from out of state, joining Washington's civilian soldiers for training at Fort Lewis after the Nov. 15 activation.

Peacock said the brigade will leave Fort Lewis for California early next spring for another month of training, then will leave for Iraq.

The deployment will be the largest mobilization of National Guard troops in Washington since World War II.

On Wednesday, in a large warehouse at Fort Lewis, the civilian soldiers walked in small groups from one pile of cardboard boxes to another, soberly trying on helmets, boots, gloves and other equipment.

The Rapid Fielding Initiative began in Afghanistan after Sept. 11, 2001. On the battlefield, soldiers from the newly formed Program Executive Office met with combat soldiers to gather feedback and assess their needs.

Army leaders also studied what the soldiers were buying out of their pockets to be ready for battlefields. That led to sports bras and black fleece bibs being included as essential items for soldiers, said Todd Wendt, a PEO soldier.

Maj. William Palmer of the 81st brigade showed off the Interceptor Body Armor, a two-layered vest that protects soldiers from high-velocity bullets.

Palmer said every soldier will receive it before leaving for Iraq.

Spc. William Schroeder, 37, from Fountain, Calif., noticed the Army's "new way of doing things" Wednesday.

"I've got confidence in the Army. They don't waste time and money," he said. "If they do it right, I'll do my job."

Eijiro Kawada: 253-597-8633

eijiro.kawada@mail.tribnet.com

I know it's no help to the families that have already lost loved ones, but the soldiers that are going over there now have the most complete protection available. Still as ranger12 pointed out, troops in harm's way are going to get hurt and may even die, even with body armor.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

I got to try on some of the new body armor this past week. It will stop 9mm rounds and protect your vital areas from blast injury. It has 2 kevlar plates that you can insert in the front and back that will stop 7.62mm rounds. It weighs about 10 pounds less fully armored than the version it replaces.

Wearing body armor will protect your vital organs, but it isn't a magical shield as one of our more ignorant liberals likes to imply. You can still get killed wearing body armor.

Donit, no one goes out on patrol without full armor. In country, no one goes outside without wearing it. For you to imply that our guys are systematically thrown to the wolves shows you know nothing about the subject. Do some research before you make a bigger jackass out of yourself.

[Ranger12 46]

Again, you make comments about nothing you know anything about, but you only go by some biased article you read. I will ask this question again, are you over there to know exactly what is going on? Have you ever been in combat to know how it works to justify all your negativity towards Bush and how the war is handled? I can tell you this, no matter what war or how much money is spent on the military, we are going to lose lives and others are going to try to find fault with somebody. Distraught parents that lose their kids are one of the firsts to do that because they are feeling so much pain, they have to direct it somewhere. This is not the first time that the government will be blamed and it will not be the last. It would be great if nobody would die in war, but good gosh man, be realistic and quit going by this bs you keep reading about. Why don't you talk to some of the men over there now or just got back and see what they say about what the government provided with and then talk to vets from WWII and Vietnam about what they had. I think you will see that our military of today is the best equipped it has ever been. There are going to always be naysayers, but you present them like they are the gospel truth. Where are your facts?

Is the war being fought in Decatur, Alabama? You can get off your high horse because you don't know any more than I do what's going on over there. The statements in the article were made by the parents of a soldier killed in battle over there. Their concerns were based on concerns their son had before his death. THEY'RE the ones concerned that our troops are not adequately protected. THEY'RE the ones raising funds to try and get more of these protective vests over there for the surviving troops, even though they've lost THEIR son. THEY'RE the ones asking our government to spend a few extra dollars to provide more protection. With the billion$ that we can give to companies making record profits, why can't we provide the basic necessities for our troops. Patriotism is more than waving a flag and declaring; "Look at me. I'm supporting our troops." Patriotism is asking the tough questions and demanding better when our government is failing us. Patriotism is demanding that our government provide those vests to our troops. How many of our troops were killed needlessly when one of the vests could have saved their lives? Think about that one before you blindly pledge allegiance to the Republican president of the United States of America!!

You are truly full of yourself aren't you? You can't admit that you no absolutely nothing about the topic can you? Do you know anything about me? No! So why do you again make a fool of yourself and make another stupid comment! For starters, as a Ranger who has been in combat, I think I know a little of SOP about combat operations and how patrols are done. We do not let our men go into battle without the the things they are needed and armor does not gurantee you will live. Again, you also assume that I do not know what is going on over there and you assume that I have not been over there. Something I can tell you is this, I have quite a few friends over there, and most are high ranking enlisted and officers. I get a few e-mails every week from them, so I have a pretty good feeling about the morale. Also, I am very involved with the current military, not just with veterans's organizations. In other words, I still have a very good idea of the pulse of the military.

Your credibility really takes a pounding when you want to debate military SOP and tactics with people currently involved in the military such as TIS and I. Since you seem to know so much about the military and what needs to be fixed, why don't you become a consultant also and get it all fixed? :roll: I bet you tell your doctor how he should be a doctor don't you? Geez! You may need to do your fellow democrats a favor and go indendent or something, because you sure don't help their cause any.

[tiger88 934]

Hey ranger and tis, lighten up on donuthole would you? If you keep exposing him for the buffoon he is, he might realize what a buffoon he is, and quit entertaining us with his idiocy. :huh:

[Tiger in Spain 0]

Since you seem to know so much about the military and what needs to be fixed, why don't you become a consultant also and get it all fixed?

You know what Ranger, I discussed this with some of my buddies last night at the party. We all had a good chuckle and came to this conclusion. Since Donit seems to know all the answers, we thought it would be perfect if he would accompany me to Iraq the next time I head that way (soon, BTW). This would give him the perfect opportunity to show all of us what we are doing wrong and how we could get the job done without having to risk our lives on a daily basis.

I guarantee you before we broke out the lunchtime MRE's, he'd be well into his 3rd pair of cammie trousers. Maybe then he'd realize things aren't always as easy as they seem.

[Ranger12 46]

Since you seem to know so much about the military and what needs to be fixed, why don't you become a consultant also and get it all fixed?

You know what Ranger, I discussed this with some of my buddies last night at the party. We all had a good chuckle and came to this conclusion. Since Donit seems to know all the answers, we thought it would be perfect if he would accompany me to Iraq the next time I head that way (soon, BTW). This would give him the perfect opportunity to show all of us what we are doing wrong and how we could get the job done without having to risk our lives on a daily basis.

I guarantee you before we broke out the lunchtime MRE's, he'd be well into his 3rd pair of cammie trousers. Maybe then he'd realize things aren't always as easy as they seem.

Exactly! Blows my mind how some people think they are experts and not the whole story because of what the read or heard and don't listen to the people that actually experience it and not a little about it.