Sabanic Discipline

[DKW 86 7,424]

http://lsu.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=705136

Chadd Scott

TigerBait.com Columnist

Talk about it in Tiger Penthouse

Nick Saban went and ruined my day again.

I was all prepared to whack him over the head with a shovel and then bury him regarding his refusal to comment on the rash of football player arrests at Alabama, but I look on the computer this morning and wouldn't you know, the Nicktator has spoken.

How serious is Nick Saban when it comes to discipline in his program?

Saban said he was disappointed about the latest incident, a disorderly conduct bust this past weekend for star cornerback Simeon Castille, and that the matter and punishment would be handled internally.

For starters, internal punishment is weak because we'll never know if there was any punishment or what it was. I'd personally like to find out because I want to know if Saban is serious about discipline or not. Four player arrests in two months and his first comments coming just now make me wonder.

So Simeon Castille will run stadium steps one morning or miss the first series against Western Carolina - the Tide's opener - and since he's not a habitual troublemaker, maybe that's all he deserves, but I have a bigger questions about Alabama's tumultuous off-seasons of player indiscretions.

When you have a university that sells its soul for a football coach, that compromises every ethical standard of an institution of higher learning, that is willing to pay double the market value to land him and gets on its hands and knees and begs him to coach the team, what message does that send the players?

The message is clear: football is the only thing that matters here anymore.

Academics, character, discipline, respect, those are all secondary to wins and loses on Saturday.

Major college athletes aren't the brightest guys around, but after watching the way Bama pursued Saban and to what extremes it was willing to go to bring him in, even a football player could deduce that the university's top priority is a winning football team.

Knowing that, and knowing no matter how great a coach Saban is he needs players to win, I think the Alabama players have taken an above the law mentality when it comes to how they live their lives in T-town.

Simeon Castille is an All-SEC caliber player, he knows that, he also knows how desperate the school and its fans are to win. In the back of his mind he knows he could do anything short of dynamite Denny Chimes and remain on the team.

Young men have a sixth sense when it comes to weakness in authority figures. Trey Blackmon doesnt, anymore...

Whether it's teachers or parents or coaches, if a kid thinks he can do something and not be punished, he'll do it. That's where the Alabama football players are at. They know winning is too important to the community there and that the powers that be are unwilling to risk suspending players and potentially lose a game. The kids know they can get away with anything and have it handled "internally." :clap:

If I'm wrong, then why have there been four arrests of Tide players in less than two months?

That's a lot by any program's standards and if Nick Saban is such a disciplinarian and is all about character and doing things the right way, why aren't his players more afraid of him and the punishment they'll receive from him by running afoul of the law?

The players aren't worried about discipline or disappointing the coach they way they were under, say, Bear Bryant because they know Saban is a hired gun with no real allegiance to the school or concern about its reputation and they know the university power brokers only care about what happens between the white lines at this point.

Bama football has stunk for a decade, Tide fans can't take it anymore and they're willing to overlook off field transgressions for a return to football glory.

The players know it too, and they've already begun to challenge that leniency and take advantage (Simpson) of Alabama's singular desire to win at the sacrifice of all other standards.

Alabama sent a clear message when it hired Nick Saban: winning is all that matters here anymore.

Tide players have heard that message loud and clear.

One last thing -

No reasonable person disputes the SEC is the top league in college football.

It has the most speed, the best athletes, the best coaches, the most passionate fans, the top stadiums, but - and you had to know there was a "but" coming here - the SEC isn't the best conference in college football when it comes to one important aspect: non-conference scheduling.

The Pac-10 tops the SEC hands down when it comes to quality of non-conference schedules.

There isn't a single Pac-10 team that doesn't play at least one major name out of league opponent and most play two.

Now, I'm not going to lie and tell you the Pac-10's league schedule is as tough as the SEC's, but when you consider the Pac-10 plays nine conference games, compared to eight in the SEC, and you match that with their more challenging out of conference games, the average Pac-10 schedule is just as tough as the average SEC slate.

This is not to say SEC out of conference schedules are bad, they aren't, all I'm saying is the Pac-10's are better.

Look around the SEC and you'll see games with FSU, Virginia Tech, Louisville, Cal, Clemson, Georgia Tech, top programs, but you'll also see a lot of Western Carolina, Louisiana-Monroe, Florida International and Florida Atlantic. If I didn't know better, I'd think Troy were an SEC team for all the conference opponents it plays this season.

All SEC teams have at least two - and most have three - "can't lose,"

breather games and I have no problem with that. No Pac-10 team, however, has more than one creampuff out of league.

What does bother me is the number of Division I-AA opponents on SEC schedules.

These are the equivalent of preseason NFL games and make the conference look silly.

They're noncompetitive, disrespectful to the game and take advantage of the loyalty and passion of fans.

The ENTIRE Pac-10 has two I-AA opponents on the schedule for this season, the SEC West alone has five. To quote my former coworker Colin Cowherd, "that's just not good enough."

Why does this matter?

It kept Auburn out of a national title game in the 2004 season is why it matters. Auburn played Louisiana-Monroe, the Citadel and Louisiana Tech out of conference that season. Take out one of those games and replace it with even a middle of the pack BCS conference school like N.C. State or Texas Tech and maybe the Tigers would have gotten their shot at USC.

The SEC is a monster. It plays the best college football in the nation, but SEC schools could learn something from their Bohemian friends out West when it comes to scheduling non-league games.

[AuburnChopper1 0]

When you have a university that sells its soul for a football coach, that compromises every ethical standard of an institution of higher learning, that is willing to pay double the market value to land him and gets on its hands and knees and begs him to coach the team, what message does that send the players?

The message is clear: football is the only thing that matters here anymore.

Exactly!

[saniflush 0]

Apparently he didn't see the thread on here where it is all explained that the TPD has it out for the football team. Maybe we should send him a link.

[AUloggerhead 2,231]

... That's a lot by any program's standards and if Nick Saban is such a disciplinarian and is all about character and doing things the right way, why aren't his players more afraid of him and the punishment they'll receive from him by running afoul of the law?

The players aren't worried about discipline or disappointing the coach they way they were under, say, Bear Bryant because they know Saban is a hired gun with no real allegiance to the school or concern about its reputation and they know the university power brokers only care about what happens between the white lines at this point.

Bama football has stunk for a decade, Tide fans can't take it anymore and they're willing to overlook off field transgressions for a return to football glory.

The players know it too, and they've already begun to challenge that leniency and take advantage of Alabama's singular desire to win at the sacrifice of all other standards. ...

Ouch, that'll leave a mark. And it would too, on any other fan base. It won't on the bammies because they're incapable of feeling shame.

[BamaGrad03 0]

When you have a university that sells its soul for a football coach, that compromises every ethical standard of an institution of higher learning, that is willing to pay double the market value to land him and gets on its hands and knees and begs him to coach the team, what message does that send the players?

The message is clear: football is the only thing that matters here anymore.

Hmm wasn't he the highest paid coach in football when he was at LSU? What ethical standards were compromised then?

You guys don't see a liiiiiiitle conflict of interest here?

[saniflush 0]

When you have a university that sells its soul for a football coach, that compromises every ethical standard of an institution of higher learning, that is willing to pay double the market value to land him and gets on its hands and knees and begs him to coach the team, what message does that send the players?

The message is clear: football is the only thing that matters here anymore.

Hmm wasn't he the highest paid coach in football when he was at LSU? What ethical standards were compromised then?

You guys don't see a liiiiiiitle conflict of interest here?

Just because there is a conflict of interest does not mean it's not true.

[CircleDrill 178]

You guys don't see a liiiiiiitle conflict of interest here?

No. All I see is this:

The kids know they can get away with anything and have it handled "internally."

If I'm wrong, then why have there been four arrests of Tide players in less than two months?

That's a lot by any program's standards and if Nick Saban is such a disciplinarian and is all about character and doing things the right way, why aren't his players more afraid of him and the punishment they'll receive from him by running afoul of the law?

And those are some AWFULLY, profound words. You guys ran Shula out of town citing lack of discipline as one of the big reasons. Now, you have a coach with an EVEN WORSE discipline record, yet because all you guys have a mancrush on him, you turn a blind eye. All because you want to beat Auburn at ALL COSTS.

I'm thinking back to the Dolphins game last year where Saban wanted to use his coaches challenge, but he was too scared throw the flag on the field. So he walked around debating what to do, then finally walked down the sideline and timidly flipped the flag onto the field about 3 feet. No official had a chance to see it, so they continued play, and he basically said nothing.

Is THIS the same way he is handling DISCIPLINE???? Probably.

[bigsixfive 327]

mm wasn't he the highest paid coach in football when he was at LSU? What ethical standards were compromised then?

You guys don't see a liiiiiiitle conflict of interest here?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a reward for an accomplishment while at LSU?

[AUloggerhead 2,231]

mm wasn't he the highest paid coach in football when he was at LSU? What ethical standards were compromised then?

You guys don't see a liiiiiiitle conflict of interest here?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a reward for an accomplishment while at LSU?

Absolutely correct. $aben had an incentive clause written into his contract with LSU that if they won the NC then he would be compensated $1 more than the highest paid coach at the time (OU's Bob Stoops, I believe.) Kind of cheesy & supremely egotistical but ... there ya have it.

[rebdawg 5]

One question - when did Saben get the reputation as a disciplinarian ?

He was known for playing troubled guys at MSU and LSU. His philosophy has always been that if you can help the team your sins are absolved. This one aspect of his coaching style is not good for Alabama's image since they have just gone through eight coaches who had the same approach. If you can play, your crimes go away.

[AUChizad 0]

One question - when did Saben get the reputation as a disciplinarian ?

He was known for playing troubled guys at MSU and LSU. His philosophy has always been that if you can help the team your sins are absolved. This one aspect of his coaching style is not good for Alabama's image since they have just gone through eight coaches who had the same approach. If you can play, your crimes go away.

Try telling this to a bammer 4 months ago.

[BamaGrad03 0]

mm wasn't he the highest paid coach in football when he was at LSU? What ethical standards were compromised then?

You guys don't see a liiiiiiitle conflict of interest here?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a reward for an accomplishment while at LSU?

So based on that, any coach who leaves a school should expect an entry level salary at their next job? Regardless of prior accolades?

[AUChizad 0]

mm wasn't he the highest paid coach in football when he was at LSU? What ethical standards were compromised then?

You guys don't see a liiiiiiitle conflict of interest here?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a reward for an accomplishment while at LSU?

So based on that, any coach who leaves a school should expect an entry level salary at their next job? Regardless of prior accolades?

Nah, you're right, they should start at the top at their next job and work their way down.

[SouthLink02 8]

I do have to laugh at him talking about the clear message being wins/losses are all that matters

Like LSWho isn't the EXACT SAME FREAKIN WAY

Give me a break.

That idiot better be new on the job

[AUmattyD 0]

mm wasn't he the highest paid coach in football when he was at LSU? What ethical standards were compromised then?

You guys don't see a liiiiiiitle conflict of interest here?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a reward for an accomplishment while at LSU?

So based on that, any coach who leaves a school should expect an entry level salary at their next job? Regardless of prior accolades?

Give BG an inch, and he'll take a mile.

[GalensGhost 0]

All SEC teams have at least two - and most have three - "can't lose,"

breather games and I have no problem with that. No Pac-10 team, however, has more than one creampuff out of league.

....

Why does this matter?

It kept Auburn out of a national title game in the 2004 season is why it matters. Auburn played Louisiana-Monroe, the Citadel and Louisiana Tech out of conference that season. Take out one of those games and replace it with even a middle of the pack BCS conference school like N.C. State or Texas Tech and maybe the Tigers would have gotten their shot at USC.

He does sort of miss the point twice in this article.

No Pac-10 team has more than one creampuff out of league? Sure. Why not. You've got SIX freaking creampuffs in-leage. This is an ignorant characterization and rationalization. It renders his entire argument for the Pac10 null and void.

And no, LM, Citadel and LaTech didn't keep AU out of the NC game at all. Idiots like Herbstriet and Fowler harping on that phantom did. Turns out that when the end-of-season calculations were complete, Auburn played a significantly more difficult schedule than either OU or USC. I'm a little tired of this logic. Auburn could have beaten the Pittsburgh Steelers, the 1981 Oakland Raiders and all five San Francisco Super Bowl teams and STILL wouldn't have passed the Sooners or Trojans in the standings.

[bigsixfive 327]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a reward for an accomplishment while at LSU?

So based on that, any coach who leaves a school should expect an entry level salary at their next job? Regardless of prior accolades?

No, but most people don't make a lateral move and double their salary.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a reward for an accomplishment while at LSU?

So based on that, any coach who leaves a school should expect an entry level salary at their next job? Regardless of prior accolades?

No, but most people don't make a lateral move and double their salary.

He didn't double his salary. He took a paycut.

[WAR-MATT 2]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a reward for an accomplishment while at LSU?

So based on that, any coach who leaves a school should expect an entry level salary at their next job? Regardless of prior accolades?

No, but most people don't make a lateral move and double their salary.

He didn't double his salary. He took a paycut.

Could be the worst post BG has ever made.

[bigsixfive 327]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a reward for an accomplishment while at LSU?

So based on that, any coach who leaves a school should expect an entry level salary at their next job? Regardless of prior accolades?

No, but most people don't make a lateral move and double their salary.

He didn't double his salary. He took a paycut.

As would be expected if he went from the NFL to D1. Let me break it down... The LATERAL move he made was going from a major D1 school to another major D1 school. LSU paid him $2M per year, Alabama felt the need to pay him $4M. $2M * 2 = $4M for the same job. Had he gone from a D1AA school to Miami to a D1 school, sure, I could see a pay difference between the D1AA salary and the D1 salary.

And all this hulabaloo about a pay cut is rediculous. I guarantee you he's getting more stocking stuffers from Alabama than the Dolphins offered. I would also put money down that some boosters chipped in on that "country boy" shack on the river.

[AuburnChopper1 0]

Hey BG,

You DO know that regardless of salary, it's HIS position to institute a position on policy and discipline...right?

Ummmm...2 million, 1 million, 15 million, 3 bucks.....it's HIS job.

It all goes back to the beginning of Saban's tenure and all the things brought up then. First...how much he gets paid...Second...Was it really warranted?...Third...How much scrutiny is he going to bring onto himself taking that job, with that salary, in an environment where there's an already ethically teetering program?...

We didn't even know then that he was going to continue his BS policies towards the media... You throw ALL that into a bucket and it's a nasty concoction.

It's going to stink, so hold your nose.....I see allllll these things still glaring him in the eyes, and it's only going to get worse....

[WarTiger 3,901]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a reward for an accomplishment while at LSU?

So based on that, any coach who leaves a school should expect an entry level salary at their next job? Regardless of prior accolades?

No, but most people don't make a lateral move and double their salary.

He didn't double his salary. He took a paycut.

Could be the worst post BG has ever made.

I don't know Matt...The one about how Shula found recruits before anybody else knew about them is pretty high up on that list. This of course to justify the star jump from Rivals once they commit to uat and blindly follow the shula train to nowhere.

As far as the paycut goes... That is absolutely laughable. Not exactly sure of the numbers but wasn't his contract at miami (NFL) for something around $24 Million over the life of the contract? Now since saban bailed on them and ran away, are they still paying to fulfill his contract? Of course not. Yet, saban could leave after a year (he could leave tomorrow) at the cesspool called uat and, surprise, uat still pays him the full contract....$32 Million. Everybody with any sense knows Saban won't be at uat for the entire term of his contract. Paycut?? Sure....whatever makes you sleep at night.

[BamaGrad03 0]

I don't know Matt...The one about how Shula found recruits before anybody else knew about them is pretty high up on that list. This of course to justify the star jump from Rivals once they commit to uat and blindly follow the shula train to nowhere

Uhhh I posted PLENTY of examples to backup that claim. No one refuted them.

And Saban is making LESS per year than he was at Miami. So I don't understand why my post was so off base.

[rebdawg 5]

Actual salary numbers are not the only factor in his pay. Compare the cost of living in South Florida to west Alabama. $4M in T-town is like $7M in Miami.

If I have a $50,000/yr job in Mobile I am actually welthier than with a $60,000/yr. in Pittsburgh.

[DKW 86 7,424]

Well we now know the truth guys.

"Shula was recruiting lights out" can now truthfully translated as: "Shula was recruiting WITH THE lights out."

hope this helps.