DEMOCRATS SHOULD CONDEMN MOVEON

[Tigermike 3,055]

DEMOCRATS SHOULD CONDEMN MOVEON

By ED KOCH

September 13, 2007 -- DAVID Petraeus is a highly decorated four-star general. He has been designated by the commander-in- chief to lead the young men and women who comprise the great U.S. force of 160,000 soldiers and Marines serving on the battlefields of Iraq, at great danger to themselves and to the officers who lead them.

Most soldiers, in pointing out their military honors, will cite the Combat Infantry Badge - which the general wears, as he does those medals awarded to him for personal bravery in combat.

Gen. Petraeus has sworn, as do all our military officers, to defend the Constitution of the United States and to carry out the orders given to him by the president - who, under that Constitution, is the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces. He is trying to lead our troops to victory.

The Congress asked the general to testify before both Houses and to provide his assessment of the situation on the ground in Iraq. This he has done.

There are people in our country who have different views on what U.S. policy toward Iraq should be. MoveOn.org, a radical group of opponents of the Iraq war, took a full-page ad in The New York Times of Sept. 10, the day he was to testify before the House of Representatives. Under his photo, a banner headline stated, in a play on words, "General Petraeus or General Betray Us?"

It is vile on the part of MoveOn to charge the general with betrayal of our country, even before he testified.

The Republican candidates for president have denounced MoveOn for its unfair attack on Gen. Petraeus. Most of the Democratic presidential candidates declined to do so when asked.

While I believe we should leave Iraq immediately, I respect the opinions of those who have come to a different conclusion. We are at war. The Iraqi insurgents and al Qaeda operatives want to kill us - not only U.S. military personnel in Iraq, but Americans wherever we are, including those of us in the United States.

There are those, like President Bush, who believe we are safer fighting them there than here, where they will surely ultimately follow us.

In my opinion, the Democratic candidates declined to denounce MoveOn because they fear themselves becoming the victims of a similar onslaught from the radical left. This is a cowardly position, which I hope they will rethink. It takes more than intelligence to be a good or great president. It takes integrity and courage, as well.

This is not the only wartime foolishness perpetrated by Democrats. This silence of the Democratic presidential candidates is similar to the damage to the country perpetrated by all but one of the Democratic members of Congress from New York City. They, with the exception of Rep. Anthony Weiner, voted against an amendment by Rep. Peter King (R-Nassau) which will protect passengers boarding planes who in good faith report suspicious activities of other passengers to airline personnel and police.

The need for the King amendment arose when several air passengers reported to airline staff suspicious activity by six Muslim imams who boarded the plane in Minneapolis. The imams sued those passengers who "saw something and said something defending themselves would require them to spend many thousands of dollars.

King explained, "While boarding, passengers and flight staff witnessed these six individuals demonstrating suspicious behavior, including not sitting in their assigned seats, but rather sitting in a configuration similar to that used by the hijackers on 9/11; requesting seat-belt extenders but not using them; and speaking loudly about Osama bin Laden and the United States' role in the death of Saddam Hussein."

Under the law, of course, Move.On has the right to libel and slander the general - a public personality - with impunity, and be protected from lawsuits. Nevertheless, decent people have an obligation to come to the general's defense and denounce Move.On by no longer supporting it and withholding any future financial contributions to it.

link

[AURaptor 1,126]

Those ******s won't have their Presidential candy asses debate on FOX, yet they'll stand by and say nothing as one of this nations finest, a 4 star general , gets accused of being a traitor to the country he's pledged his life to protect.

If ever there was a reason to not trust Democrats, now's the time.

Bastards.

[TexasTiger 13,031]

You guys should be thrilled that moveon takes librul money and funnels it down the drain on lame ads.

If they had any sense they might actually have an impact.

[WinCrimson 61]

The Republican candidates for president have denounced MoveOn for its unfair attack on Gen. Petraeus.

I'm shocked. Shocked.

It's rather obvious to me that Patraeus has been reduced to a political hack for the Shrub Administration. I feel sympathy for these career military commanders, who have a serious dilemma on their hands. Either be loyal to the Shrub and his cronies and risk a discredited finale to your career, or dissent and risk the political attacks that are inevitable.

Haven't heard much from Colin Powell lately. I have a feeling he'll have some interesting things to say after these crooks exit the White House. I hope so, anyway.

[TexasTiger 13,031]

The Republican candidates for president have denounced MoveOn for its unfair attack on Gen. Petraeus.

I'm shocked. Shocked.

It's rather obvious to me that Patraeus has been reduced to a political hack for the Shrub Administration. I feel sympathy for these career military commanders, who have a serious dilemma on their hands. Either be loyal to the Shrub and his cronies and risk a discredited finale to your career, or dissent and risk the political attacks that are inevitable.

Haven't heard much from Colin Powell lately. I have a feeling he'll have some interesting things to say after these crooks exit the White House. I hope so, anyway.

Colin Powell: Terrorists are not greatest threat to nation

In an interview with GQ magazine that's scheduled to be put online here at 11 a.m. ET, former secretary of State and one-time potential presidential candidate Colin Powell has this to say about terrorism and the threat it poses to the USA:

"What is the greatest threat facing us now? People will say it's terrorism. But are there any terrorists in the world who can change the American way of life or our political system? No. Can they knock down a building? Yes. Can they kill somebody? Yes. But can they change us? No. Only we can change ourselves. So what is the great threat we are facing?"

Powell adds, in an interview with Walter Isaacson, that to improve its image in the world, the USA should focus on welcoming newcomers. He takes on the immigration debate that has become a hot-button issue in the presidential race:

"America could not survive without immigration," he says. "Even the undocumented immigrants are contributing to our economy. That's the country my parents came to. That's the image we have to portray to the rest of the world: kind, generous, a nation of nations, touched by every nation, and we touch every nation in return. That's what people still want to believe about us. They still want to come here. We've lost a bit of the image, but we haven't lost the reality yet. And we can fix the image by reflecting a welcoming attitude -- and by not taking counsel of our fears and scaring ourselves to death that everybody coming in is going to blow up something. It ain't the case."

As for the Iraq War, Powell -- a retired general and former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff -- tells Isaacson that as he and others in the Bush administration debated strategy in the lead-up to the war, he did not think the Pentagon and then-secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld had planned for what would happen after Baghdad fell.

"That was the big mistake. Don had written a list of the worst things that could happen, but we didn't do the contingency planning on what we would do about it. So we watched those buildings get burned down, and nobody told the divisions, 'Hey, go in there and declare martial law and whack a few people and it will stop.' Then the insurgency started, and we didn't acknowledge it. They said it wasn't an insurgency. They looked up the definition. They said it was a few dead-enders! And so we didn't respond in a way that might have stopped it. And then the civil war started at the beginning of last year. I call it a civil war, but some say no, it's not a civil war, it's a war against civilians. In fact, we have total civil disorder."

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/...-powell-te.html

[WAR EAGLE!!! 0]

The Republican candidates for president have denounced MoveOn for its unfair attack on Gen. Petraeus.

I'm shocked. Shocked.

It's rather obvious to me that Patraeus has been reduced to a political hack for the Shrub Administration. I feel sympathy for these career military commanders, who have a serious dilemma on their hands. Either be loyal to the Shrub and his cronies and risk a discredited finale to your career, or dissent and risk the political attacks that are inevitable.

Haven't heard much from Colin Powell lately. I have a feeling he'll have some interesting things to say after these crooks exit the White House. I hope so, anyway.

How come you feel that Patraeus is not telling the truth? Because you disagree with him? So...everyone that disagrees with you is just being a loyal schlub to the Bush administration?

[AURaptor 1,126]

The Republican candidates for president have denounced MoveOn for its unfair attack on Gen. Petraeus.

I'm shocked. Shocked.

It's rather obvious to me that Patraeus has been reduced to a political hack for the Shrub Administration. I feel sympathy for these career military commanders, who have a serious dilemma on their hands. Either be loyal to the Shrub and his cronies and risk a discredited finale to your career, or dissent and risk the political attacks that are inevitable.

Haven't heard much from Colin Powell lately. I have a feeling he'll have some interesting things to say after these crooks exit the White House. I hope so, anyway.

How is it 'obvious' ? You have nothing to back up that claim other than your partisan hatred for Bush. Patraeus spoke hard cold FACTS, and the Dems are gonna reap what they sow. The country is against them for once again trashing the military while lying and pretending they support the troops.

[WinCrimson 61]

The Republican candidates for president have denounced MoveOn for its unfair attack on Gen. Petraeus.

I'm shocked. Shocked.

It's rather obvious to me that Patraeus has been reduced to a political hack for the Shrub Administration. I feel sympathy for these career military commanders, who have a serious dilemma on their hands. Either be loyal to the Shrub and his cronies and risk a discredited finale to your career, or dissent and risk the political attacks that are inevitable.

Haven't heard much from Colin Powell lately. I have a feeling he'll have some interesting things to say after these crooks exit the White House. I hope so, anyway.

How is it 'obvious' ? You have nothing to back up that claim other than your partisan hatred for Bush. Patraeus spoke hard cold FACTS, and the Dems are gonna reap what they sow. The country is against them for once again trashing the military while lying and pretending they support the troops.

Did you not see the portion of the interview with Republican Sen. John Warner? Warner asked clear questions that Petraeus stumbled over and appeared obviously rattled. I'm surprised that he didn't pull out his flash card and read his rehearsed, descriptive answer.

Know that I don't dislike Gen. Petraeus. This war is no more his than it is Tommy Franks', Oprah Winfrey's, or mine. While I hate that he's decided to carry the banner for the quagmire, I recognize that he's just doing his job -- as unfortunate as that may be.

Yet, on second thought, I think I might like Fallon better than Petraeus.

If Admiral Fallon's assessment of Petraeus is true, then he will feel right at home with this administration.

WASHINGTON, Sep 12 (IPS) - In sharp contrast to the lionisation of Gen. David Petraeus by members of the U.S. Congress during his testimony this week, Petraeus's superior, Admiral William Fallon, chief of the Central Command (CENTCOM), derided Petraeus as a sycophant during their first meeting in Baghdad last March, according to Pentagon sources familiar with reports of the meeting.

Fallon told Petraeus that he considered him to be "an ass-kissing little chicken****" and added, "I hate people like that", the sources say. That remark reportedly came after Petraeus began the meeting by making remarks that Fallon interpreted as trying to ingratiate himself with a superior.

That extraordinarily contentious start of Fallon's mission to Baghdad led to more meetings marked by acute tension between the two commanders. Fallon went on develop his own alternative to Petraeus's recommendation for continued high levels of U.S. troops in Iraq during the summer.

LINK

[AURaptor 1,126]

Patraeus wrote the book on counter insurgency, and his plan is working. Deal with it.

[WAR EAGLE!!! 0]

The Republican candidates for president have denounced MoveOn for its unfair attack on Gen. Petraeus.

I'm shocked. Shocked.

It's rather obvious to me that Patraeus has been reduced to a political hack for the Shrub Administration. I feel sympathy for these career military commanders, who have a serious dilemma on their hands. Either be loyal to the Shrub and his cronies and risk a discredited finale to your career, or dissent and risk the political attacks that are inevitable.

Haven't heard much from Colin Powell lately. I have a feeling he'll have some interesting things to say after these crooks exit the White House. I hope so, anyway.

How is it 'obvious' ? You have nothing to back up that claim other than your partisan hatred for Bush. Patraeus spoke hard cold FACTS, and the Dems are gonna reap what they sow. The country is against them for once again trashing the military while lying and pretending they support the troops.

Did you not see the portion of the interview with Republican Sen. John Warner? Warner asked clear questions that Petraeus stumbled over and appeared obviously rattled. I'm surprised that he didn't pull out his flash card and read his rehearsed, descriptive answer.

Know that I don't dislike Gen. Petraeus. This war is no more his than it is Tommy Franks', Oprah Winfrey's, or mine. While I hate that he's decided to carry the banner for the quagmire, I recognize that he's just doing his job -- as unfortunate as that may be.

Yet, on second thought, I think I might like Fallon better than Petraeus.

If Admiral Fallon's assessment of Petraeus is true, then he will feel right at home with this administration.

WASHINGTON, Sep 12 (IPS) - In sharp contrast to the lionisation of Gen. David Petraeus by members of the U.S. Congress during his testimony this week, Petraeus's superior, Admiral William Fallon, chief of the Central Command (CENTCOM), derided Petraeus as a sycophant during their first meeting in Baghdad last March, according to Pentagon sources familiar with reports of the meeting.

Fallon told Petraeus that he considered him to be "an ass-kissing little chicken****" and added, "I hate people like that", the sources say. That remark reportedly came after Petraeus began the meeting by making remarks that Fallon interpreted as trying to ingratiate himself with a superior.

That extraordinarily contentious start of Fallon's mission to Baghdad led to more meetings marked by acute tension between the two commanders. Fallon went on develop his own alternative to Petraeus's recommendation for continued high levels of U.S. troops in Iraq during the summer.

LINK

Once again, because you disagree with the General, everyone else that disagrees with the General too is automatically right?

[DKW 86 7,443]

The Republican candidates for president have denounced MoveOn for its unfair attack on Gen. Petraeus.

I'm shocked. Shocked.

It's rather obvious to me that Patraeus has been reduced to a political hack for the Shrub Administration. I feel sympathy for these career military commanders, who have a serious dilemma on their hands. Either be loyal to the Shrub and his cronies and risk a discredited finale to your career, or dissent and risk the political attacks that are inevitable.

Haven't heard much from Colin Powell lately. I have a feeling he'll have some interesting things to say after these crooks exit the White House. I hope so, anyway.

How is it 'obvious' ? You have nothing to back up that claim other than your partisan hatred for Bush. Patraeus spoke hard cold FACTS, and the Dems are gonna reap what they sow. The country is against them for once again trashing the military while lying and pretending they support the troops.

Did you not see the portion of the interview with Republican Sen. John Warner? Warner asked clear questions that Petraeus stumbled over and appeared obviously rattled. I'm surprised that he didn't pull out his flash card and read his rehearsed, descriptive answer.

Know that I don't dislike Gen. Petraeus. This war is no more his than it is Tommy Franks', Oprah Winfrey's, or mine. While I hate that he's decided to carry the banner for the quagmire, I recognize that he's just doing his job -- as unfortunate as that may be.

Yet, on second thought, I think I might like Fallon better than Petraeus.

If Admiral Fallon's assessment of Petraeus is true, then he will feel right at home with this administration.

WASHINGTON, Sep 12 (IPS) - In sharp contrast to the lionisation of Gen. David Petraeus by members of the U.S. Congress during his testimony this week, Petraeus's superior, Admiral William Fallon, chief of the Central Command (CENTCOM), derided Petraeus as a sycophant during their first meeting in Baghdad last March, according to Pentagon sources familiar with reports of the meeting.

Fallon told Petraeus that he considered him to be "an ass-kissing little chicken****" and added, "I hate people like that", the sources say. That remark reportedly came after Petraeus began the meeting by making remarks that Fallon interpreted as trying to ingratiate himself with a superior.

That extraordinarily contentious start of Fallon's mission to Baghdad led to more meetings marked by acute tension between the two commanders. Fallon went on develop his own alternative to Petraeus's recommendation for continued high levels of U.S. troops in Iraq during the summer.

LINK

I'm shocked. Shocked.

Liberals Condemn Fallon as Bush Toady

So lets see, in the lib mind he is both an ardent officer to be respected and quoted and a toady that knows nothing. Why does this all sound so mind numbingly repititious?

SSDD

[WinCrimson 61]

So?

They're eating their own.

Less work for us.

[autiger4life 3]

First I'd like to say that I condemn moveon.org. Radical groups are truly the ones that give parties bad names. But before all of the republicans go on these rants about how terrible us liburals are I seem to remember a certain presidential candidate who was highly decorated from the V-war having his name ran through the mud over and over again by Republicans and more so Republican candidates. I didn't see all the Republicans condemning that. I saw them either support it or just sit back and let it happen. So don't sit here and act like the democrats are the only ones to not condemn things that might help them get elected. The other side does the exact same thing.

[Tigermike 3,055]

First I'd like to say that I condemn moveon.org. Radical groups are truly the ones that give parties bad names. But before all of the republicans go on these rants about how terrible us liburals are I seem to remember a certain presidential candidate who was highly decorated from the V-war having his name ran through the mud over and over again by Republicans and more so Republican candidates. I didn't see all the Republicans condemning that. I saw them either support it or just sit back and let it happen. So don't sit here and act like the democrats are the only ones to not condemn things that might help them get elected. The other side does the exact same thing.

That particular "hero" you speak of has had issues with veterans for years. You know it and the dims knew it when they nominated him because he was "the most electable". There has been a great deal of acrimony, distain and outright hatred surrounding Kerry and his band of liars for years. First of all Kerry had his "name ran through the mud over and over again", by veterans, by those he served with. General Petraeus was slandered by a bunch of socialists, Looney leftist bastards. You know that don't you? Which makes your comparison even worse. It was a bad and deceptive comparison. If you can do better.

There is also a major difference in Kerry and General Petraeus that you failed to make. Kerry is a know and notorious liar. His list of lies is long and well known. Kerry had his "name ran through the mud over and over again" because of his lies about 1) his actions 2) veterans 3)the U.S. military as a whole. General Petraeus was slandered because those socialists bastards at moveon don't agree with him. Because General Petraeus has spent his entire life defending this country while moveon spends it's entire time dreaming of the destruction of this country.

[AURaptor 1,126]

But before all of the republicans go on these rants about how terrible us liburals are I seem to remember a certain presidential candidate who was highly decorated from the V-war having his name ran through the mud over and over again by Republicans and more so Republican candidates. I didn't see all the Republicans condemning that. I saw them either support it or just sit back and let it happen. So don't sit here and act like the democrats are the only ones to not condemn things that might help them get elected. The other side does the exact same thing.

The facts you're forgetting about John F-ing Kerry is that he LIED! Kerry lied about Christmas in Cambodia and he even met w/ the enemy, while in uniform, in Paris while the fighting was still going on. He's a miserable scumbag, who lied to the Senate sub committee about our troops being baby killers and 'monsters', among other things. Hell, Kerry was even a member of a group that plotted to MURDER Congressional leaders who supported the Vietnam war! Don't you dare even try to compare Kerry to General Patraeus. The General deserves far better than to be compared to that lying sack of go se.

[TexasTiger 13,031]

But before all of the republicans go on these rants about how terrible us liburals are I seem to remember a certain presidential candidate who was highly decorated from the V-war having his name ran through the mud over and over again by Republicans and more so Republican candidates. I didn't see all the Republicans condemning that. I saw them either support it or just sit back and let it happen. So don't sit here and act like the democrats are the only ones to not condemn things that might help them get elected. The other side does the exact same thing.

The facts you're forgetting about John F-ing Kerry is that he LIED! Kerry lied about Christmas in Cambodia and he even met w/ the enemy, while in uniform, in Paris while the fighting was still going on. He's a miserable scumbag, who lied to the Senate sub committee about our troops being baby killers and 'monsters', among other things. Hell, Kerry was even a member of a group that plotted to MURDER Congressional leaders who supported the Vietnam war! Don't you dare even try to compare Kerry to General Patraeus. The General deserves far better than to be compared to that lying sack of go se.

Kerry lied, people died!! No, wait...they didn't.

[Tigermike 3,055]

But before all of the republicans go on these rants about how terrible us liburals are I seem to remember a certain presidential candidate who was highly decorated from the V-war having his name ran through the mud over and over again by Republicans and more so Republican candidates. I didn't see all the Republicans condemning that. I saw them either support it or just sit back and let it happen. So don't sit here and act like the democrats are the only ones to not condemn things that might help them get elected. The other side does the exact same thing.

The facts you're forgetting about John F-ing Kerry is that he LIED! Kerry lied about Christmas in Cambodia and he even met w/ the enemy, while in uniform, in Paris while the fighting was still going on. He's a miserable scumbag, who lied to the Senate sub committee about our troops being baby killers and 'monsters', among other things. Hell, Kerry was even a member of a group that plotted to MURDER Congressional leaders who supported the Vietnam war! Don't you dare even try to compare Kerry to General Patraeus. The General deserves far better than to be compared to that lying sack of go se.

Kerry lied, people died!! No, wait...they didn't.

If fact yes they did. While Kerry was lying to congress & the world, there were GI dieing in Vietnam. Not saying he caused their deaths, but he was lying and they were dieing.

In fact if I am not mistaken, just recently Kerry was telling some whoppers and GI's were dieing in Iraq & Afghanistan.

[autiger4life 3]

Yes, Kerry was against the V-war. I'm pretty sure that doesn't make him a scumbag. Whether you want to admit it or not Americans did do some pretty bad things in Vietnam. I know in our history classes we love to make the Americans look great and everyone else look like the most evil people, but the truth is we do some pretty evil stuff too in times of war. Because Kerry talked about this does not mean that it is untrue. As far as the veterans who are running his name through the mud; if you continued following it you would have found that most of them had been found to be lying about the whole thing. In fact Swift Boat Captains for Truth, the one who ran most of the dirty ads, is one of the only PAC groups under investigation because of the incredible lies they formulated. And trust me, if a PAC group gets in trouble for saying something, it has to be pretty far from the truth because they can say just about anything. But you know what, whether Kerry wasn't exactly the hero some made him out to be or not, he did serve, he did volunteer, and he did risk his life for the US and just because he disagreed with why we were there and was public about that does not make him a traitor. It just shows that he was willing to fight for his right to disagree.

[DKW 86 7,443]

Yes, Kerry was against the V-war. I'm pretty sure that doesn't make him a scumbag. Whether you want to admit it or not Americans did do some pretty bad things in Vietnam. I know in our history classes we love to make the Americans look great and everyone else look like the most evil people, but the truth is we do some pretty evil stuff too in times of war. Because Kerry talked about this does not mean that it is untrue. As far as the veterans who are running his name through the mud; if you continued following it you would have found that most of them had been found to be lying about the whole thing. In fact Swift Boat Captains for Truth, the one who ran most of the dirty ads, is one of the only PAC groups under investigation because of the incredible lies they formulated. And trust me, if a PAC group gets in trouble for saying something, it has to be pretty far from the truth because they can say just about anything. But you know what, whether Kerry wasn't exactly the hero some made him out to be or not, he did serve, he did volunteer, and he did risk his life for the US and just because he disagreed with why we were there and was public about that does not make him a traitor. It just shows that he was willing to fight for his right to disagree.

Wow, there is rehab for folks like you.

I am old enough that I actually served with the folks Kerry ran down in Vietnam. I can tell you that Kerry devastated the men and the reputation of the Navy back then. BTW, Kerry, as an officer was duty bound to report anything he found to be illegal and against humanity etc. FOR THE RECORD, he reported nothing during his time in service. His number two guy in VAW was in the air force and reported crimes he saw in Vietnam. For the record, the guy never got further west than Charleston, SC during the war. Kerry still supports that charlatan and had him speaking for Kerry very very late in the campaign.

As for the swift boaters. Those men bear incredibl painful scars against Kerry for his betrayal of them. They told their story and Kerry did not even start to debunk any of it until too late.

He still, to this day, after a hundred announcements, has not released his full military record to the public. Why? Sounds like he is hiding something to the vets out here.