The ultimate flip-flop is iminent

[Tigermike 3,047]

The important thing is to make the right decision and he’s nearer to that now than he’s ever been. Yeah, it’s almost certainly for cynical political reasons, but so long as the progress continues and public opinion improves, those cynical political reasons will continue to steer him right. But the nutroots pushing his campaign have yet another reason to feel betrayed.

July 3, 2008, 2:28 pm

Obama Might ‘Refine’ Iraq Timeline

By Jeff Zeleny

Barack Obama in Fargo, N.D. (Photo: Jae C. Hong/Associated Press)

FARGO, N.D. – Senator Barack Obama said Thursday the United States cannot sustain a long-term military presence in Iraq, but added that he would be open to “refine my policies” about a timeline for withdrawing troops after meeting with American military commanders during a trip to Iraq later this month.

Mr. Obama, whose popularity in the Democratic primary was built upon a sharp opposition to the war and an often-touted 16-month gradual timetable for removing combat troops, dismissed suggestions that he was changing positions in the wake of reductions in violence in Iraq and a general election fight with Senator John McCain.

“I’ve always said that the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability. That assessment has not changed,” he said. “And when I go to Iraq and have a chance to talk to some of the commanders on the ground, I’m sure I’ll have more information and will continue to refine my policies.”

As he arrived for a campaign stop in North Dakota, Mr. Obama told reporters on Thursday that he intended to conduct “a thorough assessment” of his Iraq policy during a forthcoming trip to the country. He stressed that he has long called for a careful and responsible withdrawal of American forces, but he declined to offer a fresh endorsement of his plan to remove one to two combat brigades a month.

“My 16-month timeline, if you examine everything that I’ve said, was always premised on making sure that our troops were safe,” he said. “I said that based on the information that we had received from our commanders that one to two brigades a month could be pulled out safely, from a logistical perspective. My guiding approach continues to be that we’ve got to make sure that our troops are safe and that Iraq is stable.”

He added, “I’m going to continue to gather information to find out whether those conditions still hold.”

It’s been more than two years since Mr. Obama has visited Iraq, which Republicans have used as a point of criticism. After dismissing an invitation from Mr. McCain to visit Iraq together this summer as a “political stunt,” Mr. Obama began making preparations for his own trip to Iraq.

Dates of his visit have not been disclosed for security reasons, aides said, but his trip will be part of a Congressional delegation in his capacity as a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

“My job is to make sure that the strategic issues that we face, not just in Iraq, but in Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan,” Mr. Obama said, “that those are all taken into account and dealt with in a way that enhances America’s national security interests over the long term.”

Update | 4:15 p.m.: Republicans seized on Mr. Obama’s remarks, saying he was stepping away from the position he took in the Democratic primary campaign.

“There appears to be no issue that Barack Obama is not willing to reverse himself on for the sake of political expedience,” said Alex Conant, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee. “Obama’s Iraq problem undermines the central premise of his candidacy and shows him to be a typical politician."

Mr. Obama said such criticism was misguided, saying: “My position has not changed, but keep in mind what that original position was. I’ve always said that I would listen to commanders on the ground.

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[TitanTiger 20,509]

I do think part of any movement on this is a strategic "move to the center" that is typical in campaigns. That said, if he's willing to adjust his views when presented with more detailed information, I prefer that to being stubborn or afraid of being labeled a flip-flopper. That goes for McCain too.

[autiger4life 3]

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO WANTS A PRESIDENT WHO FLIP-FLOPS?

I am tired of this being such a terrible thing. We have had to deal with a president who is proven wrong and still refuses to change anything. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to have a candidate or President who believed in something and then was proven wrong and actually changed his mind.

Please can we applaud someone who is open-minded, meets with people who disagree and is willing to listen.

This goes for McCain too. I may disagree with him, but I would love to see him flip-flop on some issues. It woudl be so nice and prove to me he isn't just another Bush.

Edit: As you can tell Titan and I made a similar remark. You can also tell by the fact he posted at 5:02 and me a minute later that I was typing at the same time and did not see his post. Sorry for the repeat, it was not intentional.

[TheDrewYouKnew 3]

The point is that the wiser candidate and any others with common sense said Obama's "timetable" was impossible and dangerous. Obama knew it, but tricked the idiots of America into believing it for votes. He will of course do about the same as McCain would once he is given sound advise. Obama is clever, I will give him that, more clever than half of Americans. That's the thing, most republicans see through it and when we try to explain it to dims its like convincing someone 1 + 1 = 2 and having them argue that you are wrong. Any 5 year old knows you are right, but the dim really believes it's 3 cause people told them to believe it and there's no way to "win" and argument with certain people except to not argue in the first place.

[tiger88 934]

Listen folks. Everyone knows that the "change" crap was a bunch of bull to get him past the primaries. Most if not all that was a bunch of idealistic bs designed to woo gullible liberal voters into his corner so he could beat hillary.

Now he has whittled it down to he and mccain and knows that most libs will stick with him over mccain as long as he doesn't promise to invade the entire middle east thats left the day he's sworn in.

So now we get to hear the next load of crap from him about what he is "going to do IF elected" that will be designed to snare as many of the middle ground undecideds as he can

If O'bama were to win what would he do? Who freaking knows? He is obviously a say anything to get elected bill clintonesque type personality that is the opposite of what he originally claimed to be. There is no way we will know what he will do or what he stands for until the day he is in office. A day that I don't think is going to come, because as we get further and further into this I think most undecideds will recognize him for what he is. A opportunistic politician with little moral fiber guiding his decisions.

Afa ultimate flip flops this is not it. The ultimate flip flop is one that he probably cannot survive. It will occur when and more importantly IF the press gets the truth out there about what is going to happen to the economy when he jacks up the capital gains tax and some others as well. If the truth gets out on that one he will be between a massive boulder of a mountain and a hard place. If he does the logically smart thing

(afa as not ruining the economy) and reverses that position it might be political suicide. If he tries to stand his ground on this it could also ruin his campaign. I can't wait to see him try to slither his way through it.

[Tigermike 3,047]

Call me cynical, but don't you think this is only another of his "move to the center" ploys?

If O'bama were to win what would he do? Who freaking knows? He is obviously a say anything to get elected bill clintonesque type personality that is the opposite of what he originally claimed to be. There is no way we will know what he will do or what he stands for until the day he is in office.

My opinion is that if elected he will quickly abandon all this "silly centrist" rhetoric he has been trying to fool the world with at which point he will not just move but run to the hard left. He and a Pelosi led congress would get out the giant auger and,,,,,,, well you get the idea.

[tiger88 934]

Thats my guess Tm, but really, I'm not sure. With the complete bs he was spewing to start, I find it hard to believe he really thinks that stuff is doable. If he were able to get some of that stuff done then yes, you had better bend over and spread em, because as eminem once said, "....get ready for some serious a@@ @#$%^&*". The only people who won't receive it up the butt are the ones who are happy to see the demise of the US and what it has stood for. And most of those would be people who find out that they should have been careful what they wished for.

Of course, I still have faith that Obama will be seen for what he is and McCain will prevail. If I had to bet money right now it would be on McCain and not just because that is where my heart is. I don't think the press will be able to carry obama over the finish line as much as they would love to.

He has been known for a while as the most liberal senator around so that would lead you to believe he s definitely spewing more bs on the middle ground stuff than with the original stuff. Either way, he is always spewing something.

[autiger4life 3]

If I was a republican I would not be worried. McCain will carry the election in my opinion.

As much as you all hate it, the new politics and change thing was working and he has now left it for "real rhetoric". He will lose votes because of this. People liked someone they felt thought more like them and less like a politician.

The funny thing is that his empty promise of change is as emty as the rhetoric that all other politicians possess, they just use popular issues instead of popular words. All politicians are empty. But I think McCain wins it.

[autigeremt 6,661]

I think McCain shocks these people, but destiny may get in the way, and the nightmares of reality may be on the horizon for some in this country.

It's a wait and see at this point.

[au2004ece 30]

If I was a republican I would not be worried. McCain will carry the election in my opinion.

As much as you all hate it, the new politics and change thing was working and he has now left it for "real rhetoric". He will lose votes because of this. People liked someone they felt thought more like them and less like a politician.

The funny thing is that his empty promise of change is as emty as the rhetoric that all other politicians possess, they just use popular issues instead of popular words. All politicians are empty. But I think McCain wins it.

I couldn't agree more about the popular issues theory. This is what I have been saying about the idiot majority, the 80% of Americans that know nothing about what they are voting on. Obama is a great politician and can pander with the best. Who knows if he actually cares about any of the issues he speaks about?

I disagree about McCain winning though, because the country has already decided that Obama is neat and McCain is old because that's what the media told them. How could anybody really be undecided at this point?