Saban vs. media...

[quietfan 233]

http://blog.al.com/rapsheet/2008/08/we_don..._chart_her.html

We don't have a depth chart here, aiight?!"

Posted by Ian R. Rapoport -- Birmingham News August 06, 2008 10:55 AM

Stop me if you've heard this one... There is no depth chart! OK, maybe we've discussed that once or nine times. You figured it was only a matter of time before Alabama coach Nick Saban got a little, well, loud about matters relating to the media. The first blowup of the preseason happened yesterday. To be fair, it was really only a 6 or 7 on a scale of 10. (Good for you, Nick..guess those team shrinks you hired are helping you with anger management?)

But it was worth noting... It started when myself and other media members saw redshirt freshmen Josh Chapman lining up with the first-team defensive line. I blogged about it, and it was a headline in a local paper (not mine).

Well, Saban saw the headline in that unnamed paper (seriously guys, it wasn't me this time), and he wasn't happy. He HATES depth charts, and the insinuation that one exists really made him angry. He viewed it as elevating one player at the expense of another. I can see where he's coming from. But still, the guy worked with the first team, and he did so again today.

Anyway, here is what Saban said yesterday:

"Ya know, I want our fans to know out there that we don't have a depth chart here, aiight!?" Saban said, just getting warmed up. "So anyone out here in the media who writes about a depth chart and really kinda disrespects some of our players based on their depth chart is really not being very professional. Without checking with us first."

Ouch. He wasn't done...

"(It is) based on little or no legitimate information to make such a judgment," he said. "We don't really have a depth chart, I've tried to tell you guys that. We have guys that work in groups for administrative reasons."

Now, we get a little concession. Yes, he'll admit, a few guys have won starting jobs.

"There are some guys on our team that have proved they can be starters and you know who they are," he continued. "There are a lot of other guys who have an opportunity to compete to be starters or to be backups and we're going to continue to evaluate those guys and put them in different positions so that they have a chance to do that. That does not mean they're first-team or got demoted from first-team." (Got it! You have starters and non-starters, not "1st team" or "non-1st team". Josh Chapman practiced with the "starters", but not the "1st team"...guess it depends on what the definition of "is" is.)

The guy loves analogies. Here's one that hits home.

"It would be very similar to me putting on the Internet," said Saban, who really doesn't know how to use the Internet, "that one of you got fired and replaced by somebody else when that's really not true. The whole world (would) think it's true. And you would come to me and say, 'How could you say that about me? How could you do that? You're so unprofessional of you. That's mean.' But that's what y'all do to our players, just to try to create something, so..."

Finally, he have reached the conclusion. His main point? If you see something, run it by him. Granted, this is difficult because we don't speak with him every day, but that's his point...

"I'd appreciate if you think that something like that is happening... we'll be glad to tell you," he said. "We'll be glad to tell you... when we make that decision, we'll be glad to tell you."

See what I mean? Noteworthy, at least, but certainly not one of his all-time blowups.

[sogaaufan 27]

What a joke. So let me get this straight, Saban is so scared he will harm the fragile psyche of his players that he is won't put out a depth chart? Screw that! No wonder he has so many discipline problems on his team. He doesn't want to hurt anybody's feelings. Isn't that just sweet of him?

I can't wait until the Iron Bowl. Auburn is going to stomp a mudhole in this bunch of little pantywaists.

Btw, have you ever seen anyone who could talk more and say less than Nick Saban? I think the media hates him because he is excruciating to listen to. He NEVER makes sense. I have gotten to where I hate to even read an interview by him. Every answer goes off into left field.

[The Prowler 1]

Coach $ reminds me of a certain Coach by the name of Coach Klein - Waterboy....LOL

"Hey guys, we don't have a depth chart but we do have starters and backups....My fans don't want to know who's starting or not, therefore I'll just keep saying that we don't have a depth chart. I'll just tell everyone that it makes the competition stronger....yeah, that's what it is."

I hate to burst the concept of the All Knowing Coach $ here, but the competition would be the same if he had a depth chart or not. If there isn't a depth chart then players would be giving their all to get into the 1st or 2nd string, if there is depth chart then players would be giving their all to, either, hold onto their spot or climb up into the 1st or 2nd string.

Here's a question that the media won't ask Coach $...."Is Star Jackson going to be playing QB in the years to come or does he see him moving to another position, because of his athletic ability and/or AJ (Brodie Croyle Clone) coming in?"

[Bama My Heart 5]

Coach $ reminds me of a certain Coach by the name of Coach Klein - Waterboy....LOL

"Hey guys, we don't have a depth chart but we do have starters and backups....My fans don't want to know who's starting or not, therefore I'll just keep saying that we don't have a depth chart. I'll just tell everyone that it makes the competition stronger....yeah, that's what it is."

I hate to burst the concept of the All Knowing Coach $ here, but the competition would be the same if he had a depth chart or not. If there isn't a depth chart then players would be giving their all to get into the 1st or 2nd string, if there is depth chart then players would be giving their all to, either, hold onto their spot or climb up into the 1st or 2nd string.

Here's a question that the media won't ask Coach $...."Is Star Jackson going to be playing QB in the years to come or does he see him moving to another position, because of his athletic ability and/or AJ (Brodie Croyle Clone) coming in?"

I wish that Coach Saban would just learn to stand there and say "Next question", and same as it was. This really helps the media with their jobs.

[Birmingham 0]

AUloggerhead:

Considering that $abun has complete dictatorial control of the media coverage there much like Stalin did in the old USSR, how honest & truthful do you suspect those reports can be?

one minute They hate and bash him, the next they fear him and only write good things about him. Both sides of the mouth. Ya'll are hilarious.

[AUloggerhead 2,252]

"We don't really have a depth chart, I've tried to tell you guys that. We have guys that work in groups for administrative reasons."

Abso-effin-lutely brilliant. And the best part about that is -- he thinks he's making sense.

[AUmattyD 0]

Coach $ reminds me of a certain Coach by the name of Coach Klein - Waterboy....LOL

"Hey guys, we don't have a depth chart but we do have starters and backups....My fans don't want to know who's starting or not, therefore I'll just keep saying that we don't have a depth chart. I'll just tell everyone that it makes the competition stronger....yeah, that's what it is."

I hate to burst the concept of the All Knowing Coach $ here, but the competition would be the same if he had a depth chart or not. If there isn't a depth chart then players would be giving their all to get into the 1st or 2nd string, if there is depth chart then players would be giving their all to, either, hold onto their spot or climb up into the 1st or 2nd string.

Here's a question that the media won't ask Coach $...."Is Star Jackson going to be playing QB in the years to come or does he see him moving to another position, because of his athletic ability and/or AJ (Brodie Croyle Clone) coming in?"

I wish that Coach Saban would just learn to stand there and say "Next question", and same as it was. This really helps the media with their jobs.

Saying "next question" does save time, at least. It also keeps one from inserting their foot into their open mouth.

Comical that you would make fun of CTT's handling of media questions when you have Napoleon pimp-slapping reporters and developing oral diarrhea.

[PChamp119 96]

Quietfan... come on... if you are going to analyze and judge, at least do so accurately.

You claim he substitutes 1st team and 2nd team with starters and non-starters. And that those who practice with those squads are termed "starters" and "non starters." That is EXACTLY what Saban is saying is the problem. You have it COMPLETELY WRONG.

This is the key here: you can PRACTICE with the starters, but not be considered a starter. He clearly states that some players are trying to earn the right to be a starter and some are trying to build to be the backup (like those are are currently 3rd string or less).

For example, maybe you'll understand if I use Auburn players instead of a generic scenario that Saban uses. Our starting DL would consider of Michael Goggans, Antonio Coleman, Jake Ricks, and Sen'Derrick Marks. It is obvious that Marks and Coleman will be starters (kind of like what Saban said). Ricks and Goggans may be starters, but are not locks. So Dunn might consider, for a day, to put Raven Gray and Zach Clayton in the first team for the day to see how they handle the first team offensive line.

Now in this example, RG and ZC aren't considered "1st team" nor are JR and MG considered "2nd team." The coaches are merely seeing how they react. They may be called into duty to be starters one day. You don't make progress by having 1st team vs 1st and 2nd team vs 2nd team ALL the time. Some coaches may mix it up throughout an entire practice. Some coaches (Saban) may go about this other method of trying it out for an entire day if they feel the players can handle it.

The same thing occurs with newer players. For example, Da'Shaun Barnes is like 3rd string at this point, but has plenty of potential. The coaches may let him practice with the 2nd team to see how well he does. This doesn't mean Courtney Harden is demoted?

That said, perhaps Saban didn't go about saying thing the proper way. He may have come across rough (hense, the point of the article). But I wouldn't say he was out of line with his reasoning.

[AUdaREALsecTigers 2]

Quietfan... come on... if you are going to analyze and judge, at least do so accurately.

You claim he substitutes 1st team and 2nd team with starters and non-starters. And that those who practice with those squads are termed "starters" and "non starters." That is EXACTLY what Saban is saying is the problem. You have it COMPLETELY WRONG.

This is the key here: you can PRACTICE with the starters, but not be considered a starter. He clearly states that some players are trying to earn the right to be a starter and some are trying to build to be the backup (like those are are currently 3rd string or less).

For example, maybe you'll understand if I use Auburn players instead of a generic scenario that Saban uses. Our starting DL would consider of Michael Goggans, Antonio Coleman, Jake Ricks, and Sen'Derrick Marks. It is obvious that Marks and Coleman will be starters (kind of like what Saban said). Ricks and Goggans may be starters, but are not locks. So Dunn might consider, for a day, to put Raven Gray and Zach Clayton in the first team for the day to see how they handle the first team offensive line.

Now in this example, RG and ZC aren't considered "1st team" nor are JR and MG considered "2nd team." The coaches are merely seeing how they react. They may be called into duty to be starters one day. You don't make progress by having 1st team vs 1st and 2nd team vs 2nd team ALL the time. Some coaches may mix it up throughout an entire practice. Some coaches (Saban) may go about this other method of trying it out for an entire day if they feel the players can handle it.

The same thing occurs with newer players. For example, Da'Shaun Barnes is like 3rd string at this point, but has plenty of potential. The coaches may let him practice with the 2nd team to see how well he does. This doesn't mean Courtney Harden is demoted?

That said, perhaps Saban didn't go about saying thing the proper way. He may have come across rough (hense, the point of the article). But I wouldn't say he was out of line with his reasoning.

I would say you normally have a pretty good view of his reasoning. Better hope he doesn't stop too fast or you may end up right in the ole "out" door!

[Bama Possum 0]

Here is an example of what he meant by administrative decision. (Not that most will care.)

During the A-day game, Alabama puts first O vs. first D. So those seen on the Crimson offense are typically the starters and those on the White defense are the starters. Because they wanted to give the back-up QB's the same options as JPW, they put Nick Walker on the 2nd offense. That way both offenses had a strong receiving/blocking TE to work with.

There were immediate suppositions by some that Walker must have fallen out of favor and been dropped out of the 1st team. It was simply an "administrative decision" to help balance the scrimmage.

Where the players get worked in practice is not an automatic assumption of who is playing where or when. None of the true freshman are currently working with the "1st squad", but I guarantee that by August 30th, several will be declared starters. So there really isn't a depth chart at Alabama, Auburn, or most other schools. When the rosters come out for the first game, then there will be an accurate depth chart. Why should it matter to the fans or media anyway?

I am personally a big fan of closed practices. I don't know why ANY BCS coach would want reporters or others garnering any information about positions, players, formations, or plays. Part of Auburn's success against Clemson was the "sneak attack" of unleashing a new offense they were not prepared to defend. I had rather watch my team win than know every little detail about what's going on in practice.

[sogaaufan 27]

My God, EVERYONE on this thread is starting to sound like Saban. I'm getting a headache. Every coach from the local peewee league to the NFL has a depth chart. It ain't rocket science, Nick.

[FootballFanatic 4]

There is a depth chart sabay. You have one. Its not apparent to anyone but you. You do have a depth chart.

A DEPTH CHART IS THE ORDER OF PLAYERS LISTED FROM STARTER BACK TO 5TH STRING. If there are starters and then guys who aren't starters, those guys are called second string. AKA: A depth chart you short incomprehensible freak.

[Bama My Heart 5]

There is a depth chart sabay. You have one. Its not apparent to anyone but you. You do have a depth chart.

A DEPTH CHART IS THE ORDER OF PLAYERS LISTED FROM STARTER BACK TO 5TH STRING. If there are starters and then guys who aren't starters, those guys are called second string. AKA: A depth chart you short incomprehensible freak.

Something just tells me that Coach Saban knows a hell of alot more about football than you do, and really it doesn't matter if he doesn't. He is the one that WE pay to run our program. He doesn't ask you or care if you understand what he is doing. If he doesn't want the media to report that he has a depth chart than they should not put their opinions in there. Everybody made such a big deal about how this 18 year football player at Auburn should have been tougher and been able to handle a beatdown, but they're feeling sorry for some young reporter that got his hand slapped for reporting something that he should not have. Poor, poor little reporter. If he can't take it, then maybe he should leave too.

Just because a player from C squad is put in the line up a few times with the A squad, does not mean that he has locked in on a starting position especially after only 3 practices. It doesn't matter why Coach Saban does not want things like this said, he just does, and he let it be known.

[WAR-MATT 2]

My God, EVERYONE on this thread is starting to sound like Saban. I'm getting a headache. Every coach from the local peewee league to the NFL has a depth chart. It ain't rocket science, Nick.

It's hard to sell immediate playing time when you have an accurate depth chart.

[FootballFanatic 4]

There is a depth chart sabay. You have one. Its not apparent to anyone but you. You do have a depth chart.

A DEPTH CHART IS THE ORDER OF PLAYERS LISTED FROM STARTER BACK TO 5TH STRING. If there are starters and then guys who aren't starters, those guys are called second string. AKA: A depth chart you short incomprehensible freak.

Something just tells me that Coach Saban knows a hell of alot more about football than you do, and really it doesn't matter if he doesn't.

He doesn't seem to understand the simple concept that EVERY OTHER COACH in football understands. If you have more than one player assigned per position and ones a starter and the other isn't...THATS A DEPTH CHART.

Just becuase he doesn't want to release a list with names penciled in at differen't spots doesn't mean he doesn't have a depth chart. If he honestly thinks he doesn't have a depth chart I think you guys are in real trouble. Depth charts are a basic concept that even he is using but is such a petty jerk that he doesn't want others to talk about it.

[quietfan 233]

Quietfan... come on... if you are going to analyze and judge, at least do so accurately.

You claim he substitutes 1st team and 2nd team with starters and non-starters. And that those who practice with those squads are termed "starters" and "non starters." That is EXACTLY what Saban is saying is the problem. You have it COMPLETELY WRONG.

This is the key here: you can PRACTICE with the starters, but not be considered a starter. He clearly states that some players are trying to earn the right to be a starter and some are trying to build to be the backup (like those are are currently 3rd string or less).

For example, maybe you'll understand if I use Auburn players instead of a generic scenario that Saban uses. Our starting DL would consider of Michael Goggans, Antonio Coleman, Jake Ricks, and Sen'Derrick Marks. It is obvious that Marks and Coleman will be starters (kind of like what Saban said). Ricks and Goggans may be starters, but are not locks. So Dunn might consider, for a day, to put Raven Gray and Zach Clayton in the first team for the day to see how they handle the first team offensive line.

Now in this example, RG and ZC aren't considered "1st team" nor are JR and MG considered "2nd team." The coaches are merely seeing how they react. They may be called into duty to be starters one day. You don't make progress by having 1st team vs 1st and 2nd team vs 2nd team ALL the time. Some coaches may mix it up throughout an entire practice. Some coaches (Saban) may go about this other method of trying it out for an entire day if they feel the players can handle it.

The same thing occurs with newer players. For example, Da'Shaun Barnes is like 3rd string at this point, but has plenty of potential. The coaches may let him practice with the 2nd team to see how well he does. This doesn't mean Courtney Harden is demoted?

That said, perhaps Saban didn't go about saying thing the proper way. He may have come across rough (hense, the point of the article). But I wouldn't say he was out of line with his reasoning.

Here is an example of what he meant by administrative decision. (Not that most will care.)

During the A-day game, Alabama puts first O vs. first D. So those seen on the Crimson offense are typically the starters and those on the White defense are the starters. Because they wanted to give the back-up QB's the same options as JPW, they put Nick Walker on the 2nd offense. That way both offenses had a strong receiving/blocking TE to work with.

There were immediate suppositions by some that Walker must have fallen out of favor and been dropped out of the 1st team. It was simply an "administrative decision" to help balance the scrimmage.

Where the players get worked in practice is not an automatic assumption of who is playing where or when. None of the true freshman are currently working with the "1st squad", but I guarantee that by August 30th, several will be declared starters. So there really isn't a depth chart at Alabama, Auburn, or most other schools. When the rosters come out for the first game, then there will be an accurate depth chart. Why should it matter to the fans or media anyway?

I am personally a big fan of closed practices. I don't know why ANY BCS coach would want reporters or others garnering any information about positions, players, formations, or plays. Part of Auburn's success against Clemson was the "sneak attack" of unleashing a new offense they were not prepared to defend. I had rather watch my team win than know every little detail about what's going on in practice.

I think you both missed the point: Your posts are filled with references to "starters' , "1st string", "2nd string", "3rd string", etc. Saban won't used the terms "1st string" vs "2nd string" but prefers "starters" vs "non-starters". The point is that ALL those terms imply a depth chart, i.e., a perceived ranking of the players according to ability, performance and likely playing time.

Sure, you mix and match people around in practice to see how things may work, and sure your perceived heirarchy may be in flux and get adjusted from week to week--but if some players are considered "starters" over others , THAT'S A DEPTH CHART!! The joke is that Saban says such ranking don't exist, yet refers to such rankings (starters vs non-starters) in his rant against reporters for speculating on such rankings!

Unless you can put all 85 players on the field at one time, there is a depth chart! (...even if it exists only in Saban's head) What he should have said was "We haven't finalized our depth chart YET."

[runswithscissors 33]

i think his point is they haven't even finalized what position what person will play on places like OL, DL, etc. for example during drills they move different people to different spots in the line for X amount of reps. Tyler Love may play LG for a few reps, then get switched to RT the next few reps, then go play a few reps at center with another group, etc etc. same thing on DL. they've been plugging in different players in different positions in different groupings trying to find out which combination of players work best together. i don't see how you can tell people who will be #1 #2 and #3 when you're not 100% sure what place everyone will even play. he has already conceded that people like JPW and Rolando McClain are starters, because well those are no brainers. you guys brought this up last year too. he told the media the first day of fall camp that there was no pre-set depth chart at that point, and that when there was he would let them know. and low and behold questions keep getting asked about it, and he says every time that when they have a definite chart the media will know. i don't see why that is such a big deal. he hasn't mentioned anything about a "starters group" and a "non-starters group" when he talks about groupings. btw, can anybody tell me what AU's entire depth chart is?

[AUloggerhead 2,252]

i think his point is they haven't even finalized what position what person will play on places like OL, DL, etc. for example during drills they move different people to different spots in the line for X amount of reps. Tyler Love may play LG for a few reps, then get switched to RT the next few reps, then go play a few reps at center with another group, etc etc. same thing on DL. they've been plugging in different players in different positions in different groupings trying to find out which combination of players work best together. i don't see how you can tell people who will be #1 #2 and #3 when you're not 100% sure what place everyone will even play. he has already conceded that people like JPW and Rolando McClain are starters, because well those are no brainers. you guys brought this up last year too. he told the media the first day of fall camp that there was no pre-set depth chart at that point, and that when there was he would let them know. and low and behold questions keep getting asked about it, and he says every time that when they have a definite chart the media will know. i don't see why that is such a big deal. he hasn't mentioned anything about a "starters group" and a "non-starters group" when he talks about groupings. btw, can anybody tell me what AU's entire depth chart is?

Sure. It's right here: http://auburnbeat.blogspot.com/2008/04/fin...t-released.html

That is the official depth chart since it's release after spring practice. Will it change? Of course it will -- DeRon Furr is no longer on the team and Airon Savage won't be playing this year. And I have no doubt that some more changes will result after fall camp due to some players have worked harder over the summer than others. Changes to the depth chart are and have never been the issue. The publishing of a depth chart by no means indicates that it is set in stone. Changes are going to occur -- that is a given.

The issue here is your Napoleanic complex HC making a big deal over NOTHING. Who cares if a sportswriter puts together a depth chart? What possible harm can happen? Who said the sportswriter speaks for the bammie nation? $abun scolded the press over this non-issue where all he had to say was that his depth chart wasn't finalized and won't be until right before the first game. Instead, the putz actually thinks the press is "disrespecting" his players. And you syncophants all just keep nodding your head to whatever the little midget says. OK, I'll play along: I look forward to when the official uat List of Player Groupings for Administrative Reasons is finalized, though.

[runswithscissors 33]

i think his point is they haven't even finalized what position what person will play on places like OL, DL, etc. for example during drills they move different people to different spots in the line for X amount of reps. Tyler Love may play LG for a few reps, then get switched to RT the next few reps, then go play a few reps at center with another group, etc etc. same thing on DL. they've been plugging in different players in different positions in different groupings trying to find out which combination of players work best together. i don't see how you can tell people who will be #1 #2 and #3 when you're not 100% sure what place everyone will even play. he has already conceded that people like JPW and Rolando McClain are starters, because well those are no brainers. you guys brought this up last year too. he told the media the first day of fall camp that there was no pre-set depth chart at that point, and that when there was he would let them know. and low and behold questions keep getting asked about it, and he says every time that when they have a definite chart the media will know. i don't see why that is such a big deal. he hasn't mentioned anything about a "starters group" and a "non-starters group" when he talks about groupings. btw, can anybody tell me what AU's entire depth chart is?

Sure. It's right here: http://auburnbeat.blogspot.com/2008/04/fin...t-released.html

That is the official depth chart since it's release after spring practice. Will it change? Of course it will -- DeRon Furr is no longer on the team and Airon Savage won't be playing this year. And I have no doubt that some more changes will result after fall camp due to some players have worked harder over the summer than others. Changes to the depth chart are and have never been the issue. The publishing of a depth chart by no means indicates that it is set in stone. Changes are going to occur -- that is a given.

The issue here is your Napoleanic complex HC making a big deal over NOTHING. Who cares if a sportswriter puts together a depth chart? What possible harm can happen? Who said the sportswriter speaks for the bammie nation? $abun scolded the press over this non-issue where all he had to say was that his depth chart wasn't finalized and won't be until right before the first game. Instead, the putz actually thinks the press is "disrespecting" his players. And you syncophants all just keep nodding your head to whatever the little midget says. OK, I'll play along: I look forward to when the official uat List of Player Groupings for Administrative Reasons is finalized, though.

i'll be a little more specific. can you show me AU's fall depth chart? what is the point in looking at the spring one when you guys had freshmen come in since then? and also, CNS said on THE VERY FIRST DAY OF FALL PRACTICE that there was no set depth chart, and there won't be for some time and that as soon as they had one the media would know. why is it that you cannot get it through your head that they are trying multiple people out in multiple positions in multiple groupings. we know they are very willing to play a freshman too, so there is alot more competition for spots going on. thats not a very hard concept to grasp. its a matter of trying to figure out who does best where and with what personnel they do that best with. i don't know why you guys have decided to make this an issue last year and this year. people keep assuming that this person will start over this person, this one over that one, and he set it straight. big deal. its not a matter of us just nodding our heads listening to whatever, its being reasonable and not looking to hate everything somebody says and actually listening to the reasoning behind it. as soon as a depth chart is released, i will make sure i post it here for you guys since you are so concerned though.

[FootballFanatic 4]

RWS, CTT has a depth chart. Right now the kids are openly competeing for starting positions. He still admits that depth charts exist and that they aren't some evil conspiracy from the media to make his guys look bad.

CTT knows who most of the starters will be and who is backing them up. He may still have a lot of competetion for differen't starting positions but he admitted that we have 2 qb's fighting for the starting spot and that theres a 3rd guy behind them on the "Depth Chart".

Coaches have depth charts.

[AUesquire 1]

Okay, what Saban was really saying when referring to starters vs. non-starters and depth charts...

Oh forget it. The POINT of this thread is Soach Saban is still a turd.

Decent coach, but still a turd with ears.

[WAR-MATT 2]

Guys save the key strokes. We had this conversation with the Tards last year.

CNS could rape RWS horses and ride off on all his women and he'd still defend him. $ to the Tre Amigos.

[runswithscissors 33]

Coaches have depth charts.

i want so see AU's fall depth chart.

[WAR-MATT 2]

Coaches have depth charts.

i want so see AU's fall depth chart.

The argument isn't if a fall depth chart is published it's if one exists and CTT makes comments daily in his presser who's working with the ones and who's working with the two's. Outside the QB battle, SAM LB and CB the spring depth chart will be the fall depth chart.

[tufftiger 0]

why does he have to make such a big deal about things like this?

The long winded explanation took longer than it would of taken to do a depth chart.