Women "Rangers"

[aubfaninga 16]

Seen this discussion before and thought this was a good place for this read.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2015/04/23/3684449/eight-women-soldiers-survive-first.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/04/23/in-major-step-eight-women-make-it-through-ranger-schools-grueling-rap-week/

[cooltigger21 0]

If they can make the grade fine but lowering the standards serves nobody except the political hacks.

[aubfaninga 16]

If they can make the grade fine but lowering the standards serves nobody except the political hacks.

From my time living in Columbus I have associated with many Rangers. They are a different species and I say that in the most loving way. A female Ranger will be something that I just can't wait to meet.

[aujeff11 6,243]

To be honest, the ranger tab is nice and all but being a part of the Ranger battalion is much more impressive. Lot of soldiers and officers go to Ranger school just for the promotion points and the tab.

[quietfan 233]

If they can make the grade fine but lowering the standards serves nobody except the political hacks.

We agree. (That's a rarity for us! )

Certain jobs require certain physical attributes or abilities. Gender alone is not, and should not be, a limiting factor, but there are certain requirements in turns of strength, endurance, lifting ability, etc. that are necessary. An interesting example in somewhat the other direction: Most of us would assume a Shaq or a Hulk Hogan in their prime would be intimidating physical specimens as soldiers. Yet neither could qualify for pilot training or astronaut duty, and no amount of artificial tinkering with the rules will change the size of an F-15's cockpit!

Per the linked article, however, this is not an issue in this case. Quoting from the link:

The Army has not altered the course’s difficult standards for the women trying to earn the Ranger tab.

[japantiger 4,051]

Decent success rate so far...better than I would have thought relative to the guys. That is encouraging. The only relevant direct compare I have is from 1981 and the number of females surviving my Airborne class was 1 out of 18. I was not a big fan of the program as we struggled to get enough Marines into the course but the army was wasting slots on unqualified females who did not do the same training at the time. A lot has changed in 30 years.

[AUUSN 823]

Put this book on your reading list.

[cooltigger21 0]

I'm glad that standards haven't been lowered. If the women can make it through then more power to them. The Marines had a group of women trying to see if they could qualify for infantry. I think maybe one or two survived the first day. There is talk of possible lowering of standards for that.

[homersapien 11,367]

While not officially Rangers themselves, women have been attached to Ranger units as interpreters. It has been a very effective program. Men cannot interrogate women in the Islamic world for cultural reasons. But women are typically better sources of intelligence than are men.

http://nytlive.nytim...ing-conditions/

".....The difference is that Ashley’s War is not fiction. Its subjects, Army Lieutenant Ashley White and her elite band of sisters, who were rushed through an abbreviated Army Ranger course and sent to Afghanistan to support Special Operations Forces teams on night raids against the Taliban, are very real, and simply amazing. These hand-picked soldiers, known as “cultural support teams” (CST), lay to rest any doubts about whether women are physically or mentally tough enough to endure combat: few women or men are capable of making it through the training they survived. And the fact is, we need them in the fight.

In places like Afghanistan and Iraq, for cultural reasons, male soldiers are allowed little to no interaction with local women and are thus blind to the perspectives of half the population. As Lemmon relates in detailed and sometimes harrowing accounts of the patrols and raids the CSTs supported, understanding what is happening with the other half is dangerous and sensitive work, but is also critical to the mission. Special Operations Admirals Eric Olsen and William McRaven both get that, which is why they called for the program to be set up...."

[Auctoritas 2,828]

If you knew my sister or my wife, nobody would ever doubt their ability in combat situations. Both can beat the absolute stuffing out of me.

I'm glad that standards haven't been lowered. If the women can make it through then more power to them. The Marines had a group of women trying to see if they could qualify for infantry. I think maybe one or two survived the first day. There is talk of possible lowering of standards for that.

Just for clarification: The ones you are talking about was for the Infantry Officer Course, which is insanely tough...at the same time those last two were washed out, they also washed 81 of the 90 males who were in the class too.

There is a program at Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune (at Camp Johnson) for enlisted infantry, and females have been much more successful there. They've had 358 try, and 122 have graduated.

[Auctoritas 2,828]

And, while we are at it, all 358 could still probably whoop my rear end. I had the pleasure of working with a few of them during my internship.

[cooltigger21 0]

If you knew my sister or my wife, nobody would ever doubt their ability in combat situations. Both can beat the absolute stuffing out of me.

I'm glad that standards haven't been lowered. If the women can make it through then more power to them. The Marines had a group of women trying to see if they could qualify for infantry. I think maybe one or two survived the first day. There is talk of possible lowering of standards for that.

Just for clarification: The ones you are talking about was for the Infantry Officer Course, which is insanely tough...at the same time those last two were washed out, they also washed 81 of the 90 males who were in the class too.

There is a program at Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune (at Camp Johnson) for enlisted infantry, and females have been much more successful there. They've had 358 try, and 122 have graduated.

OK yeah I had read that but did not make the distinction. Thanks for the clarification. I've known a female or two that would have been an enemies worst nightmare.

[aujeff11 6,243]

While not officially Rangers themselves, women have been attached to Ranger units as interpret has been a very effective program. Men cannot interrogate women in the Islamic world for cultural reasons. But women are typically better sources of intelligence than are men.

http://nytlive.nytim...ing-conditions/

".....The difference is that Ashley’s War is not fiction. Its subjects, Army Lieutenant Ashley White and her elite band of sisters, who were rushed through an abbreviated Army Ranger course and sent to Afghanistan to support Special Operations Forces teams on night raids against the Taliban, are very real, and simply amazing. These hand-picked soldiers, known as “cultural support teams” (CST), lay to rest any doubts about whether women are physically or mentally tough enough to endure combat: few women or men are capable of making it through the training they survived. And the fact is, we need them in the fight.

In places like Afghanistan and Iraq, for cultural reasons, male soldiers are allowed little to no interaction with local women and are thus blind to the perspectives of half the population. As Lemmon relates in detailed and sometimes harrowing accounts of the patrols and raids the CSTs supported, understanding what is happening with the other half is dangerous and sensitive work, but is also critical to the mission. Special Operations Admirals Eric Olsen and William McRaven both get that, which is why they called for the program to be set up...."

The women in the female engagement team were not interpreters, they probably had a contracted female terp with them though.. Women are absolutely needed on the combat field in order to talk to their women though. Village leaders wouldn't like it too well if men were talking to their women, even to the point of their woman receiving physical abuse because of it.

The women enduring abbreviated forms of training isn't that impressive to me though. As far as their missions, they did their job once the fighting stopped. Good job ladies. The article is actually belittling the work of the female MP's that have served outside of the wire while overseas, in my opinion. They were the female combat pioneers that fought throughout Afghanistan or Iraq way before the FET's were ever utilized. And no, women are not typically better sources of intelligence.

[homersapien 11,367]

While not officially Rangers themselves, women have been attached to Ranger units as interpret has been a very effective program. Men cannot interrogate women in the Islamic world for cultural reasons. But women are typically better sources of intelligence than are men.

http://nytlive.nytim...ing-conditions/

".....The difference is that Ashley's War is not fiction. Its subjects, Army Lieutenant Ashley White and her elite band of sisters, who were rushed through an abbreviated Army Ranger course and sent to Afghanistan to support Special Operations Forces teams on night raids against the Taliban, are very real, and simply amazing. These hand-picked soldiers, known as "cultural support teams" (CST), lay to rest any doubts about whether women are physically or mentally tough enough to endure combat: few women or men are capable of making it through the training they survived. And the fact is, we need them in the fight.

In places like Afghanistan and Iraq, for cultural reasons, male soldiers are allowed little to no interaction with local women and are thus blind to the perspectives of half the population. As Lemmon relates in detailed and sometimes harrowing accounts of the patrols and raids the CSTs supported, understanding what is happening with the other half is dangerous and sensitive work, but is also critical to the mission. Special Operations Admirals Eric Olsen and William McRaven both get that, which is why they called for the program to be set up...."

The women in the female engagement team were not interpreters, they probably had a contracted female terp with them though.. Women are absolutely needed on the combat field in order to talk to their women though. Village leaders wouldn't like it too well if men were talking to their women, even to the point of their woman receiving physical abuse because of it.

The women enduring abbreviated forms of training isn't that impressive to me though. As far as their missions, they did their job once the fighting stopped. Good job ladies. The article is actually belittling the work of the female MP's that have served outside of the wire while overseas, in my opinion. They were the female combat pioneers that fought throughout Afghanistan or Iraq way before the FET's were ever utilized. And no, women are not typically better sources of intelligence.

Thanks for the clarification. I assumed they were interpreters since the purpose of them being there was to question the women.

As far as the women providing more intelligence, I didn't just make it up. I heard it during an interview of someone in a position to know. (Possibly the author of the above-mentioned book?) Whatever, they said specifically that women were typically more forthcoming with information.

Regardless, having the ability to interrogate women was recognized to be very valuable by the officers in charge of such operations.

[aujeff11 6,243]

While not officially Rangers themselves, women have been attached to Ranger units as interpret has been a very effective program. Men cannot interrogate women in the Islamic world for cultural reasons. But women are typically better sources of intelligence than are men.

http://nytlive.nytim...ing-conditions/

".....The difference is that Ashley's War is not fiction. Its subjects, Army Lieutenant Ashley White and her elite band of sisters, who were rushed through an abbreviated Army Ranger course and sent to Afghanistan to support Special Operations Forces teams on night raids against the Taliban, are very real, and simply amazing. These hand-picked soldiers, known as "cultural support teams" (CST), lay to rest any doubts about whether women are physically or mentally tough enough to endure combat: few women or men are capable of making it through the training they survived. And the fact is, we need them in the fight.

In places like Afghanistan and Iraq, for cultural reasons, male soldiers are allowed little to no interaction with local women and are thus blind to the perspectives of half the population. As Lemmon relates in detailed and sometimes harrowing accounts of the patrols and raids the CSTs supported, understanding what is happening with the other half is dangerous and sensitive work, but is also critical to the mission. Special Operations Admirals Eric Olsen and William McRaven both get that, which is why they called for the program to be set up...."

The women in the female engagement team were not interpreters, they probably had a contracted female terp with them .. Women are absolutely needed on the combat field in order to talk to their women though. Village leaders wouldn't like it too well if men were talking to their women, even to the point of their woman receiving physical abuse because of it.

The women enduring abbreviated forms of training isn't that impressive to me though. As far as their missions, they did their job once the fighting stopped. Good job ladies. The article is actually belittling the work of the female MP's that have served outside of the wire while overseas, in my opinion. They were the female combat pioneers that fought throughout Afghanistan or Iraq way before the FET's were ever utilized. And no, women are not typically better sources of intelligence.

Thanks for the clarification. I assumed they were interpreters since the purpose of them being there was to question the women.

As far as the women providing more intelligence, I didn't just make it up. I heard it during an interview of someone in a position to know. (Possibly the author of the above-mentioned book?) Whatever, they said specifically that women were typically more forthcoming with information.

Regardless, having the ability to interrogate women was recognized to be very valuable by the officers in charge of such operations.

The greatest source of intel will always be from the boots on the ground. Women provide Intel when women are involved, Sure. Typically, though ... I doubt it. I've met many S2 intelligence officers, mostly male. Mine was a marine that hailed from Boston. Every time I drew radio watch we would discuss the red sox and baseball in general. Great guy

[quietfan 233]

While not officially Rangers themselves, women have been attached to Ranger units as interpreters. It has been a very effective program. Men cannot interrogate women in the Islamic world for cultural reasons. But women are typically better sources of intelligence than are men.

http://nytlive.nytim...ing-conditions/

".....The difference is that Ashley’s War is not fiction. Its subjects, Army Lieutenant Ashley White and her elite band of sisters, who were rushed through an abbreviated Army Ranger course and sent to Afghanistan to support Special Operations Forces teams on night raids against the Taliban, are very real, and simply amazing. These hand-picked soldiers, known as “cultural support teams” (CST), lay to rest any doubts about whether women are physically or mentally tough enough to endure combat: few women or men are capable of making it through the training they survived. And the fact is, we need them in the fight.

In places like Afghanistan and Iraq, for cultural reasons, male soldiers are allowed little to no interaction with local women and are thus blind to the perspectives of half the population. As Lemmon relates in detailed and sometimes harrowing accounts of the patrols and raids the CSTs supported, understanding what is happening with the other half is dangerous and sensitive work, but is also critical to the mission. Special Operations Admirals Eric Olsen and William McRaven both get that, which is why they called for the program to be set up...."

Sounds like a very needed and important program given the culture in which we have to operate.

And if the sight of armed women working as equals with men in our forces messes with the heads of a few Taliban or ISIS sympathizers, or inspires local women to push for more rights & respect, that's fine by me!

(By the way, I'll be ordering the book. Does the Amazon commission go to you or AUUSN?)