FFRF goes after Auburn, Rev. Chette Williams

[homersapien 11,426]

Franklin just sounds butthurt. Got any better examples?

Was Franklin sober when he said it? I have never seen Franklin sober. Never saw him in clean clothes, hair combed, with his shirt tucked properly either. He was drunk the morning he was fired.

Wow! What a couple of "Christian" Aholes. Keep up the good lords work...

Truth is truth bruh. You sound a little butthurt as well. :laugh:/>

Does it really matter how or why Franklin feels about it, if it happened?

Who said it actually happened? TF was a drunk that left on bad terms.

He went on PFRN to keep the crap stirred.

Can you really say that you can believe a very very disgruntled employee?

Sure he can...when it fits the narrative that he relates too. ;)/>

Touche' It's very very predictable.

trash dozens of good coaches, players, admin staff, on the words of one guy that has real issues.

More lies. I have never "trashed" anyone.

I think JJ, Chette, Gus et al. are all honorable well meaning folks. I think they have the best interests of every player at heart. But like a lot of Christians, they might be a little too aggressive in pushing Christian redemption in an institutionalized way. If this discussion gets them thinking about it, that's a good thing.

It's almost gotten to the point where it is impossible to have a civilized discussion on this forum about anything. Too many here just cannot rise above the level of dichotomous thinking.

MIGHT.......that's all you got? MIGHT? That's the entire problem with people who do not believe....MIGHT as well mean IS.

All I've got for what? :dunno:/>

And what do you mean by "problem"? Do you think non-believers are a problem?

And you think I need help.......lol. Never mind.

Yeah, right. :-\

The inability or lack of desire to defend your comments is a sure indicator you aren't submitting a thoughtful post.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

Then it's even less convincing. Because virtually every other sport at Auburn in that time frame was sucking wind. And recruiting was terrible. And our closest rivals were experiencing more success than we were.

I'm sorry, but "some players said so" isn't enough to go around making accusations like that, much less believing them.

What he said. I dont trust what one very disgruntled former coach said either.

You got any links for these players?

Nah. I knew the players... well the liars according to this board.

Do have a quote from the coach about the new gig he took where he says he uses his sport as a platform to share Christ and be a disciple. It's in this article.

http://www.shelbycountyreporter.com/2009/07/28/briarwood-hires-former-au-baseball-coach/

Appears he is at the right place now for what he feels should be involved in his baseball program. I have no issue with that. I have no issues with team chaplains either. Only when it works as a negative for those of different faiths or non-believers do I have a an issue.

Guess next you will tell me that Christian High School teachers don't bang their students lol.

Anyway fine you guys win. The players were all demon seeded, devil worshipping, drug using, whore banging, gambling addicted savages with no sense of integrity, honor, faith, or morals and made it all up..... probably to get free X and go triple X with some dudes X.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

When our institutions openly attack a man doing so much good; we are truly lost. We lament which young "lives matter" and we have a man working to make all these lives better; and most of these lives that he is trying to make better are young black lives; yet we have organizations who place their hate above the lives of these young men...and I am frankly shocked that anyone on here finds issue with this. As I have pointed out many times on here; the issue in the black community is lack of leadership....here you have a man providing that leadership; and you attack him and his program because your concerned about appearances. Shame on you. You're no better than Al Sharpton or any of the other race baiters and political hacks exploiting this situation. We need more programs like this...on every campus and in every neighborhood.

We already have plenty of programs like this in every neighborhood. They are called churches.

There is nothing wrong with helping or administering to young people. The issue on the table is whether or not a specific religious doctrine should be the exclusive vehicle for doing so, especially within the context of a football program or place of work.

And some players have churches. Others may not feel as comfortable going to a pastor but would like to discuss life matters with someone like Chette who played football, who can relate to them and what they're dealing with in life. Or, you know what Auburn does provide in an official, paid capacity? Totally free counseling services to include mental health issues:

Student Counseling Services (SCS), a department in the Division of Student Affairs, is the primary counseling center for Auburn University's undergraduate and graduate student community. The mission of SCS is to provide comprehensive preventative and clinical mental health services to enhance the psychological well-being of individual students, as well as the broader campus culture. We are committed to supporting the academic, retention, and student development missions of Auburn University, so students can have a balanced university experience and take full advantage of the educational opportunities at the university.

http://www.auburn.edu/scs/

If they want to discuss more spiritual things, Chette can do that as well, but there's no evidence (or even an accusation out there) that it's being forced on anyone. So in essence, student athletes have even more options, not fewer. And none of the are forced. And the one where the guy has a religious affiliation isn't paid for by the school.

Well, no one has suggested it was being "forced" on anyone. What I have suggested is that if Christianity has become pervasively integrated into the program it creates a coercive atmosphere.

I am starting to think it's not even possible for a non-Christian to understand this point.

I suppose the best analogy for Christians to consider is a case in which Islam - or even better, Wiccan - religious model was being used instead of Christian.

I'm going Wiccan for September!

[Weegle777 78]

Franklin just sounds butthurt. Got any better examples?

Was Franklin sober when he said it? I have never seen Franklin sober. Never saw him in clean clothes, hair combed, with his shirt tucked properly either. He was drunk the morning he was fired.

Wow! What a couple of "Christian" Aholes. Keep up the good lords work...

Truth is truth bruh. You sound a little butthurt as well. :laugh:/>

Does it really matter how or why Franklin feels about it, if it happened?

Who said it actually happened? TF was a drunk that left on bad terms.

He went on PFRN to keep the crap stirred.

Can you really say that you can believe a very very disgruntled employee?

Sure he can...when it fits the narrative that he relates too. ;)/>

Touche' It's very very predictable.

trash dozens of good coaches, players, admin staff, on the words of one guy that has real issues.

More lies. I have never "trashed" anyone.

I think JJ, Chette, Gus et al. are all honorable well meaning folks. I think they have the best interests of every player at heart. But like a lot of Christians, they might be a little too aggressive in pushing Christian redemption in an institutionalized way. If this discussion gets them thinking about it, that's a good thing.

It's almost gotten to the point where it is impossible to have a civilized discussion on this forum about anything. Too many here just cannot rise above the level of dichotomous thinking.

MIGHT.......that's all you got? MIGHT? That's the entire problem with people who do not believe....MIGHT as well mean IS.

That's because they want to take everyone's decision making responsibility away. No one can decide for themselves, others must decide for them.

I don't understand your post.

First, who is "they"? And what do you mean by " take everyone's decision making responsibility away"?

It's the whole, "eliminate everything that a group believes could become offensive without allowing people to make their own personal decision about whether it is actually offensive to them" ploy. Taking something away because a small, less than 1% of the population group "predicts" offense only serves to eliminate diversity. This society preaches "DIVERSITY NOW!" but takes away what they deem offensive.

[homersapien 11,426]

Franklin just sounds butthurt. Got any better examples?

Was Franklin sober when he said it? I have never seen Franklin sober. Never saw him in clean clothes, hair combed, with his shirt tucked properly either. He was drunk the morning he was fired.

Wow! What a couple of "Christian" Aholes. Keep up the good lords work...

Truth is truth bruh. You sound a little butthurt as well. :laugh:/>

Does it really matter how or why Franklin feels about it, if it happened?

Who said it actually happened? TF was a drunk that left on bad terms.

He went on PFRN to keep the crap stirred.

Can you really say that you can believe a very very disgruntled employee?

Sure he can...when it fits the narrative that he relates too. ;)/>

Touche' It's very very predictable.

trash dozens of good coaches, players, admin staff, on the words of one guy that has real issues.

More lies. I have never "trashed" anyone.

I think JJ, Chette, Gus et al. are all honorable well meaning folks. I think they have the best interests of every player at heart. But like a lot of Christians, they might be a little too aggressive in pushing Christian redemption in an institutionalized way. If this discussion gets them thinking about it, that's a good thing.

It's almost gotten to the point where it is impossible to have a civilized discussion on this forum about anything. Too many here just cannot rise above the level of dichotomous thinking.

MIGHT.......that's all you got? MIGHT? That's the entire problem with people who do not believe....MIGHT as well mean IS.

That's because they want to take everyone's decision making responsibility away. No one can decide for themselves, others must decide for them.

I don't understand your post.

First, who is "they"? And what do you mean by " take everyone's decision making responsibility away"?

It's the whole, "eliminate everything that a group believes could become offensive without allowing people to make their own personal decision about whether it is actually offensive to them" ploy. Taking something away because a small, less than 1% of the population group "predicts" offense only serves to eliminate diversity. This society preaches "DIVERSITY NOW!" but takes away what they deem offensive.

Well no wonder you are upset. You don't understand the actual issues which sparked the interest.

And the "diversity" point is ironic.

[triangletiger 1,599]

I think what homersapien is talking about is similar to what as been referred to in my line of work (nuclear power) as a 'chilled environment'. It's an environment in which those with a different opinion don't believe they can freely express their opinion and believe they must, to some extent, 'go along to get along'. A chilled environment in which individuals either felt pressure not to raise concerns or, if they raised concerns, were shot down is believed to have been a key contributor leading to events such as the Davis-Besse reactor vessel head voiding (http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operating/ops-experience/vessel-head-degradation/overview.html) and the Challenger and Columbia space shuttle tragedies (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/26/AR2006012601160.html).

While I don't believe this describes the culture of Auburn University's Athletic Department and wholeheartedly support Brother Chette's good work, I do believe the coaches and leaders do need to be aware of the danger of a chilled environment creeping in and do what they can to ensure that it doesn't.

As far as the FFRF is concerned, I think they're a bunch of militant atheistic kooks whose accusations don't carry much weight. But, seeing as this is a free society, I support their right to express that opinion, however flawed it may be.

[Weegle777 78]

Why create a problem when no problem exists? My Lord, I could say that my boss is creating a hostile work environment meant to keep me down because he is a bama fan and I am not. I could say that he "possibly" could favor another bama fan over me if a promotion is available. Do I have grounds to have him fired because it "might" happen? No.

[DKW 86 7,439]

Then it's even less convincing. Because virtually every other sport at Auburn in that time frame was sucking wind. And recruiting was terrible. And our closest rivals were experiencing more success than we were.

I'm sorry, but "some players said so" isn't enough to go around making accusations like that, much less believing them.

What he said. I dont trust what one very disgruntled former coach said either.

You got any links for these players?

Nah. I knew the players... well the liars according to this board.

Do have a quote from the coach about the new gig he took where he says he uses his sport as a platform to share Christ and be a disciple. It's in this article.

http://www.shelbycou...baseball-coach/

Appears he is at the right place now for what he feels should be involved in his baseball program. I have no issue with that. I have no issues with team chaplains either. Only when it works as a negative for those of different faiths or non-believers do I have a an issue.

PT #1: Guess next you will tell me that Christian High School teachers don't bang their students lol.

PT #2: Anyway fine you guys win. The players were all demon seeded, devil worshipping, drug using, whore banging, gambling addicted savages with no sense of integrity, honor, faith, or morals and made it all up..... probably to get free X and go triple X with some dudes X.

PT #1: What you said was hysterical funny. What she did was pathetic. 35 and screwing a 17yo kid? He will be screwed up the rest of his life.

PT #2: I just asked who said it. That was all. CTF, I dont have much trust in after meeting him twice. I never saw him sober, nor in clean clothes, nor hair combed, nor acting like a grownup.

He was fired for showing up drunk at work around 7-9AM. He went on PFRN to trash the guys that fired him. \

In defense of him, i dont think he was given the asst coaches he needed to run his O either.

The real flaw to CTT was he was too loyal to some of his coaches. His WR coach, was a fail that needed to be gone, yet, CTT wouldnt let him go nor move him on.

Auburn paid for that for sometime.

[autigeremt 6,661]

Franklin just sounds butthurt. Got any better examples?

Was Franklin sober when he said it? I have never seen Franklin sober. Never saw him in clean clothes, hair combed, with his shirt tucked properly either. He was drunk the morning he was fired.

Wow! What a couple of "Christian" Aholes. Keep up the good lords work...

Truth is truth bruh. You sound a little butthurt as well. :laugh:/>

Does it really matter how or why Franklin feels about it, if it happened?

Who said it actually happened? TF was a drunk that left on bad terms.

He went on PFRN to keep the crap stirred.

Can you really say that you can believe a very very disgruntled employee?

Sure he can...when it fits the narrative that he relates too. ;)/>

Touche' It's very very predictable.

trash dozens of good coaches, players, admin staff, on the words of one guy that has real issues.

More lies. I have never "trashed" anyone.

I think JJ, Chette, Gus et al. are all honorable well meaning folks. I think they have the best interests of every player at heart. But like a lot of Christians, they might be a little too aggressive in pushing Christian redemption in an institutionalized way. If this discussion gets them thinking about it, that's a good thing.

It's almost gotten to the point where it is impossible to have a civilized discussion on this forum about anything. Too many here just cannot rise above the level of dichotomous thinking.

MIGHT.......that's all you got? MIGHT? That's the entire problem with people who do not believe....MIGHT as well mean IS.

All I've got for what? :dunno:/>

And what do you mean by "problem"? Do you think non-believers are a problem?

And you think I need help.......lol. Never mind.

Yeah, right. :-\

The inability or lack of desire to defend your comments is a sure indicator you aren't submitting a thoughtful post.

Has nothing to do with it. Some people don't deserve a reply because all they want to do is tit for tat. That would be your MO.....or indicator in this case.

[japantiger 4,051]

Why create a problem when no problem exists? My Lord, I could say that my boss is creating a hostile work environment meant to keep me down because he is a bama fan and I am not. I could say that he "possibly" could favor another bama fan over me if a promotion is available. Do I have grounds to have him fired because it "might" happen? No.

Sorry Weeg's...common sense doesn't apply in life anymore. Gov't has the answer...just look at how well that is working out.

[Weegle777 78]

Makes no sense. These people are manufacturing an issue for gain! It's extortion.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

Then it's even less convincing. Because virtually every other sport at Auburn in that time frame was sucking wind. And recruiting was terrible. And our closest rivals were experiencing more success than we were.

I'm sorry, but "some players said so" isn't enough to go around making accusations like that, much less believing them.

What he said. I dont trust what one very disgruntled former coach said either.

You got any links for these players?

Nah. I knew the players... well the liars according to this board.

Do have a quote from the coach about the new gig he took where he says he uses his sport as a platform to share Christ and be a disciple. It's in this article.

http://www.shelbycou...baseball-coach/

Appears he is at the right place now for what he feels should be involved in his baseball program. I have no issue with that. I have no issues with team chaplains either. Only when it works as a negative for those of different faiths or non-believers do I have a an issue.

PT #1: Guess next you will tell me that Christian High School teachers don't bang their students lol.

PT #2: Anyway fine you guys win. The players were all demon seeded, devil worshipping, drug using, whore banging, gambling addicted savages with no sense of integrity, honor, faith, or morals and made it all up..... probably to get free X and go triple X with some dudes X.

PT #1: What you said was hysterical funny. What she did was pathetic. 35 and screwing a 17yo kid? He will be screwed up the rest of his life.

PT #2: I just asked who said it. That was all. CTF, I dont have much trust in after meeting him twice. I never saw him sober, nor in clean clothes, nor hair combed, nor acting like a grownup.

He was fired for showing up drunk at work around 7-9AM. He went on PFRN to trash the guys that fired him. \

In defense of him, i dont think he was given the asst coaches he needed to run his O either.

The real flaw to CTT was he was too loyal to some of his coaches. His WR coach, was a fail that needed to be gone, yet, CTT wouldnt let him go nor move him on.

Auburn paid for that for sometime.

Pt #1 - It was suppose to be. Course he won't be messed up, and of course it would be viewed differently if the teacher was male and the student female (like teenage females don't enjoy sex) or female and female or male and male.

Pt # 2 - No idea why people keep talking about Tony Franklin and football when discussing the players I knew. I've made it pretty clear they were not football players, did not play football at Auburn, and that the coaches were not part of the football coaching staff and coached an entirely different sport all together.

[AUDub 11,169]

Makes no sense. These people are manufacturing an issue for gain! It's extortion.

extortion. lol

[homersapien 11,426]

Makes no sense. These people are manufacturing an issue for gain! It's extortion.

extortion. lol

(It's hugely profitable. )

[autigeremt 6,661]

Makes no sense. These people are manufacturing an issue for gain! It's extortion.

extortion. lol

(It's hugely profitable. )

It is if you are trying to gain donations from like minded people.......

[AUDub 11,169]

Makes no sense. These people are manufacturing an issue for gain! It's extortion.

extortion. lol

(It's hugely profitable. )

It is if you are trying to gain donations from like minded people.......

IANAL, but even I know that leveling the accusation of extortion in this scenario is simply laughable.

[AUloggerhead 2,252]

Makes no sense. These people are manufacturing an issue for gain! It's extortion.

extortion. lol

(It's hugely profitable. :rolleyes:/> )

It is if you are trying to gain donations from like minded people.......

IANAL, but even I know that leveling the accusation of extortion in this scenario is simply laughable.

Maybe & maybe not ... I don't think "extortion" is technically correct. Jesse Jackson's non-profit corporation, Rainbow/PUSH coalition, was eminently successful in soliciting "donations" from corporations in exchange for no lawsuits or boycotts.

[AUDub 11,169]

Makes no sense. These people are manufacturing an issue for gain! It's extortion.

extortion. lol

(It's hugely profitable. :rolleyes:/> )

It is if you are trying to gain donations from like minded people.......

IANAL, but even I know that leveling the accusation of extortion in this scenario is simply laughable.

Maybe & maybe not ... I don't think "extortion" is technically correct. Jesse Jackson's non-profit corporation, Rainbow/PUSH coalition, was eminently successful in soliciting "donations" from corporations in exchange for no lawsuits or boycotts.

Definitely not. Extortion requires material gain for the extortioner from the one being extorted.

As for Jackson, agreed if thats the case.

[homersapien 11,426]

Franklin just sounds butthurt. Got any better examples?

Was Franklin sober when he said it? I have never seen Franklin sober. Never saw him in clean clothes, hair combed, with his shirt tucked properly either. He was drunk the morning he was fired.

Wow! What a couple of "Christian" Aholes. Keep up the good lords work...

Truth is truth bruh. You sound a little butthurt as well. :laugh:/>

Does it really matter how or why Franklin feels about it, if it happened?

Who said it actually happened? TF was a drunk that left on bad terms.

He went on PFRN to keep the crap stirred.

Can you really say that you can believe a very very disgruntled employee?

Sure he can...when it fits the narrative that he relates too. ;)/>

Touche' It's very very predictable.

trash dozens of good coaches, players, admin staff, on the words of one guy that has real issues.

More lies. I have never "trashed" anyone.

I think JJ, Chette, Gus et al. are all honorable well meaning folks. I think they have the best interests of every player at heart. But like a lot of Christians, they might be a little too aggressive in pushing Christian redemption in an institutionalized way. If this discussion gets them thinking about it, that's a good thing.

It's almost gotten to the point where it is impossible to have a civilized discussion on this forum about anything. Too many here just cannot rise above the level of dichotomous thinking.

MIGHT.......that's all you got? MIGHT? That's the entire problem with people who do not believe....MIGHT as well mean IS.

All I've got for what? :dunno:/>

And what do you mean by "problem"? Do you think non-believers are a problem?

And you think I need help.......lol. Never mind.

Yeah, right. :-\

The inability or lack of desire to defend your comments is a sure indicator you aren't submitting a thoughtful post.

Has nothing to do with it. Some people don't deserve a reply because all they want to do is tit for tat. That would be your MO.....or indicator in this case.

Well, you already responded directly to me twice, so the "don't deserve a reply" rings hollow.

Maybe you just don't have the stomach for "tit for tat".

[autigeremt 6,661]

Franklin just sounds butthurt. Got any better examples?

Was Franklin sober when he said it? I have never seen Franklin sober. Never saw him in clean clothes, hair combed, with his shirt tucked properly either. He was drunk the morning he was fired.

Wow! What a couple of "Christian" Aholes. Keep up the good lords work...

Truth is truth bruh. You sound a little butthurt as well. :laugh:/>

Does it really matter how or why Franklin feels about it, if it happened?

Who said it actually happened? TF was a drunk that left on bad terms.

He went on PFRN to keep the crap stirred.

Can you really say that you can believe a very very disgruntled employee?

Sure he can...when it fits the narrative that he relates too. ;)/>

Touche' It's very very predictable.

trash dozens of good coaches, players, admin staff, on the words of one guy that has real issues.

More lies. I have never "trashed" anyone.

I think JJ, Chette, Gus et al. are all honorable well meaning folks. I think they have the best interests of every player at heart. But like a lot of Christians, they might be a little too aggressive in pushing Christian redemption in an institutionalized way. If this discussion gets them thinking about it, that's a good thing.

It's almost gotten to the point where it is impossible to have a civilized discussion on this forum about anything. Too many here just cannot rise above the level of dichotomous thinking.

MIGHT.......that's all you got? MIGHT? That's the entire problem with people who do not believe....MIGHT as well mean IS.

All I've got for what? :dunno:/>

And what do you mean by "problem"? Do you think non-believers are a problem?

And you think I need help.......lol. Never mind.

Yeah, right. :-\

The inability or lack of desire to defend your comments is a sure indicator you aren't submitting a thoughtful post.

Has nothing to do with it. Some people don't deserve a reply because all they want to do is tit for tat. That would be your MO.....or indicator in this case.

Well, you already responded directly to me twice, so the "don't deserve a reply" rings hollow.

Maybe you just don't have the stomach for "tit for tat".

Unfortunately I do have the stomach for tit for tat....but it's going away in short order.