FFRF goes after Auburn, Rev. Chette Williams

[homersapien 11,427]

So do atheists just want their belief system to be the dominant one in America? Because if the state or government supports this, then that is a violation of the establishment clause.

That was random.

[homersapien 11,427]

Knowing of the situation internally I can tell you with 100% confidence that A: No one is forced to enter into the FCA program in Auburn and B: No one is shunned or mistreated for not being in a program that Mr. Williams leads. He is a very positive influence and I'm going to support him 100%.

This is just another attempt to go after Christians.

Well, that's encouraging. If there weren't a good number of non-participators it would be a real red flag.

But BS on the suggestion of Christian persecution. It's obvious that Christianity holds an exalted position in the program, regardless of who writes the checks. Questioning or even examining that status is hardly anti-Christian.

EMT saying "go after" Christians is NOT the same thing as persecuting. You are just trying sensationalize things...again.

No, it was a perfectly appropriate way of characterizing one group "going after" another. To "go after" suggests persecution.

You have no case whatsoever for me trying to "sensationalize things.....again". That's an empty ad hominem attack.

[DKW 86 7,439]

Have you read FFRF's bylaws or looked at their site? Yeah, not going after Christians ... oh my, that's a good one..you just get funnier...reading your stuff is like watching an old Jack Benny episode where he feigned not being stingy...classic. Just like him, apparently you're the only one not in on the joke.

Apparently. I don't see anything funny about this. Well, unless you have the notion this is more about Christianity than religion in general.

Christianity is the single and predominant target in this case.

Duuuuuh. Wonder why that is? :-\/>

Is there a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi we haven't heard about?

Has a player asked for one? If so I bet we could get the FCA to help fund the request.

I don't know. How much religious diversity exists on the team? How welcoming is the environment to a Muslim or Jewish player, much less an agnostic or atheist?

My point is the particular religion at issue is more a reflection of the dominance of Christianity in this country than it is a focus on Christianity as the "single and predominant target".

So who was it that actually asked for one and was rejected by Auburn? Or are you just talking out of your rear end again as per usual. When you name the player, I will write and call and of needs be visit AU to verify that we rejected him/her.

Excuse me but what exactly what part of my post are you responding to?

The part where you infer that Christian and only Christian religious would be welcomed in AU athletics. Has some Muslim/Jew/Atheist/Buddhist/whatever complained that they were not welcomed by AU? Who was the player, the team, the coach?

[cooltigger21 0]

Nobody is forced to participate and if they don't they aren't punished or anything else. This isn't establishing a state religion which is all the establishment clause is about.

[homersapien 11,427]

Have you read FFRF's bylaws or looked at their site? Yeah, not going after Christians ... oh my, that's a good one..you just get funnier...reading your stuff is like watching an old Jack Benny episode where he feigned not being stingy...classic. Just like him, apparently you're the only one not in on the joke.

Apparently. I don't see anything funny about this. Well, unless you have the notion this is more about Christianity than religion in general.

Christianity is the single and predominant target in this case.

Duuuuuh. Wonder why that is? :-\/>

Is there a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi we haven't heard about?

Has a player asked for one? If so I bet we could get the FCA to help fund the request.

I don't know. How much religious diversity exists on the team? How welcoming is the environment to a Muslim or Jewish player, much less an agnostic or atheist?

My point is the particular religion at issue is more a reflection of the dominance of Christianity in this country than it is a focus on Christianity as the "single and predominant target".

So who was it that actually asked for one and was rejected by Auburn? Or are you just talking out of your rear end again as per usual. When you name the player, I will write and call and of needs be visit AU to verify that we rejected him/her.

Excuse me but what exactly what part of my post are you responding to?

The part where you infer that Christian and only Christian religious would be welcomed in AU athletics. Has some Muslim/Jew/Atheist/Buddhist/whatever complained that they were not welcomed by AU? Who was the player, the team, the coach?

I don't see that implication nor was it my intention to imply such. So your inference is mistaken.

[autigeremt 6,661]

Have you read FFRF's bylaws or looked at their site? Yeah, not going after Christians ... oh my, that's a good one..you just get funnier...reading your stuff is like watching an old Jack Benny episode where he feigned not being stingy...classic. Just like him, apparently you're the only one not in on the joke.

Apparently. I don't see anything funny about this. Well, unless you have the notion this is more about Christianity than religion in general.

Christianity is the single and predominant target in this case.

Duuuuuh. Wonder why that is? :-\/>

Is there a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi we haven't heard about?

Has a player asked for one? If so I bet we could get the FCA to help fund the request.

I don't know. How much religious diversity exists on the team? How welcoming is the environment to a Muslim or Jewish player, much less an agnostic or atheist?

My point is the particular religion at issue is more a reflection of the dominance of Christianity in this country than it is a focus on Christianity as the "single and predominant target".

So who was it that actually asked for one and was rejected by Auburn? Or are you just talking out of your rear end again as per usual. When you name the player, I will write and call and of needs be visit AU to verify that we rejected him/her.

Excuse me but what exactly what part of my post are you responding to?

The part where you infer that Christian and only Christian religious would be welcomed in AU athletics. Has some Muslim/Jew/Atheist/Buddhist/whatever complained that they were not welcomed by AU? Who was the player, the team, the coach?

I don't see that implication nor was it my intention to imply such. So your inference is mistaken.

You don't see it? Go reread your posts...

[homersapien 11,427]

Have you read FFRF's bylaws or looked at their site? Yeah, not going after Christians ... oh my, that's a good one..you just get funnier...reading your stuff is like watching an old Jack Benny episode where he feigned not being stingy...classic. Just like him, apparently you're the only one not in on the joke.

Apparently. I don't see anything funny about this. Well, unless you have the notion this is more about Christianity than religion in general.

Christianity is the single and predominant target in this case.

Duuuuuh. Wonder why that is? :-\/>

Is there a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi we haven't heard about?

Has a player asked for one? If so I bet we could get the FCA to help fund the request.

I don't know. How much religious diversity exists on the team? How welcoming is the environment to a Muslim or Jewish player, much less an agnostic or atheist?

My point is the particular religion at issue is more a reflection of the dominance of Christianity in this country than it is a focus on Christianity as the "single and predominant target".

So who was it that actually asked for one and was rejected by Auburn? Or are you just talking out of your rear end again as per usual. When you name the player, I will write and call and of needs be visit AU to verify that we rejected him/her.

Excuse me but what exactly what part of my post are you responding to?

The part where you infer that Christian and only Christian religious would be welcomed in AU athletics. Has some Muslim/Jew/Atheist/Buddhist/whatever complained that they were not welcomed by AU? Who was the player, the team, the coach?

I don't see that implication nor was it my intention to imply such. So your inference is mistaken.

You don't see it? Go reread your posts...

No, you quote me and then prove I meant something I didn't mean. There is nothing in my post that can be literally interpreted other than the way I meant it.

I wrote it and I know what I intended: I said (literally) "I don't know" then repeated the same in the form of a rhetorical question.

Now if you and DKW want to insist I meant something I didn't, then f*** you.

It certainly won't be the first time DKW has essentially called me a liar as a debate "tactic". :-\

While it's possible for someone to make a mistaken inference, one cannot insist I intended something I didn't. I wrote it.

[DKW 86 7,439]

homer, once again, you were talking out your rear end. you CLEARLY implied that Auburn University had in fact discriminated against someone.

HOMER:

Duuuuuh. Wonder why that is? :-\/>

Is there a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi we haven't heard about?

I asked when was one ever denied by Auburn University? Who was the player? What was the athletic team? When did this occur?

If there was a problem, i will drive it as hard as anyone to get it corrected. That would mean that there is establishment of a religion at Auburn University.

You implied that simply because there isnt one that can be named on this forum, by the way, there isnt an Auburn University team Christian Chaplain either, there is a chaplain paid for by the FCA that the athletes have access to, that therefore there must be denial by Auburn University. There may indeed be "a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi" that we on this forum just dont know about. But you infer that simply just because we are ignorant of such that therefore there cannot be one or that Auburn University has taken proactive stance to insure that one would be denied. You imply that since there isnt one known that Auburn must therefore be proactively stopping there from being one, and that AU Athletes are being proactively deprived of access to such. I am asking you: Do you know of even one player being so deprived? Who is/was that player? What team were they on? When did this happen? OR are you just talking our your rear orifice as per usual?

I think we have figured out what the truth is from you ducking the questions.

There isnt one player that was deprived named in the suit brought by FFRF either, btw.

[homersapien 11,427]

homer, once again, you were talking out your rear end. you CLEARLY implied that Auburn University had in fact discriminated against someone.

HOMER:

Duuuuuh. Wonder why that is? :-\/>

Is there a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi we haven't heard about?

I asked when was one ever denied by Auburn University? Who was the player? What was the athletic team? When did this occur?

If there was a problem, i will drive it as hard as anyone to get it corrected. That would mean that there is establishment of a religion at Auburn University.

You implied that simply because there isnt one that can be named on this forum, by the way, there isnt an Auburn University team Christian Chaplain either, there is a chaplain paid for by the FCA that the athletes have access to, that therefore there must be denial by Auburn University. There may indeed be "a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi" that we on this forum just dont know about. But you infer that simply just because we are ignorant of such that therefore there cannot be one or that Auburn University has taken proactive stance to insure that one would be denied. You imply that since there isnt one known that Auburn must therefore be proactively stopping there from being one, and that AU Athletes are being proactively deprived of access to such. I am asking you: Do you know of even one player being so deprived? Who is/was that player? What team were they on? When did this happen? OR are you just talking our your rear orifice as per usual?

I think we have figured out what the truth is from you ducking the questions.

There isnt one player that was deprived named in the suit brought by FFRF either, btw.

You drew a mistaken inference. Don't sit there and tell me what I meant to say. You cannot prove an implication by definition. Especially when none was intended.

So you either accept that or go **** yourself. I am not going to engage in a discussion with someone who insists I am lying about what I meant.

[autigeremt 6,661]

homer, once again, you were talking out your rear end. you CLEARLY implied that Auburn University had in fact discriminated against someone.

HOMER:

Duuuuuh. Wonder why that is? :-\/>

Is there a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi we haven't heard about?

I asked when was one ever denied by Auburn University? Who was the player? What was the athletic team? When did this occur?

If there was a problem, i will drive it as hard as anyone to get it corrected. That would mean that there is establishment of a religion at Auburn University.

You implied that simply because there isnt one that can be named on this forum, by the way, there isnt an Auburn University team Christian Chaplain either, there is a chaplain paid for by the FCA that the athletes have access to, that therefore there must be denial by Auburn University. There may indeed be "a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi" that we on this forum just dont know about. But you infer that simply just because we are ignorant of such that therefore there cannot be one or that Auburn University has taken proactive stance to insure that one would be denied. You imply that since there isnt one known that Auburn must therefore be proactively stopping there from being one, and that AU Athletes are being proactively deprived of access to such. I am asking you: Do you know of even one player being so deprived? Who is/was that player? What team were they on? When did this happen? OR are you just talking our your rear orifice as per usual?

I think we have figured out what the truth is from you ducking the questions.

There isnt one player that was deprived named in the suit brought by FFRF either, btw.

You drew a mistaken inference. Don't sit there and tell me what I meant to say. You cannot prove an implication by definition. Especially when none was intended.

So you either accept that or go **** yourself. I am not going to engage in a discussion with someone who insists I am lying about what I meant.

Drew a mistaken inference? Lamo! Keep your sexual fantasies to yourself. Lmao

[homersapien 11,427]

homer, once again, you were talking out your rear end. you CLEARLY implied that Auburn University had in fact discriminated against someone.

HOMER:

Duuuuuh. Wonder why that is? :-\/>

Is there a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi we haven't heard about?

I asked when was one ever denied by Auburn University? Who was the player? What was the athletic team? When did this occur?

If there was a problem, i will drive it as hard as anyone to get it corrected. That would mean that there is establishment of a religion at Auburn University.

You implied that simply because there isnt one that can be named on this forum, by the way, there isnt an Auburn University team Christian Chaplain either, there is a chaplain paid for by the FCA that the athletes have access to, that therefore there must be denial by Auburn University. There may indeed be "a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi" that we on this forum just dont know about. But you infer that simply just because we are ignorant of such that therefore there cannot be one or that Auburn University has taken proactive stance to insure that one would be denied. You imply that since there isnt one known that Auburn must therefore be proactively stopping there from being one, and that AU Athletes are being proactively deprived of access to such. I am asking you: Do you know of even one player being so deprived? Who is/was that player? What team were they on? When did this happen? OR are you just talking our your rear orifice as per usual?

I think we have figured out what the truth is from you ducking the questions.

There isnt one player that was deprived named in the suit brought by FFRF either, btw.

You drew a mistaken inference. Don't sit there and tell me what I meant to say. You cannot prove an implication by definition. Especially when none was intended.

So you either accept that or go **** yourself. I am not going to engage in a discussion with someone who insists I am lying about what I meant.

Drew a mistaken inference? Lamo! Keep your sexual fantasies to yourself. Lmao

EMT, I am going to explain it to you one more time because I don't think you are crazy like DKW.

My only point was to point out the only religion at issue here is Christianity. Obviously, that is the predominate religion of the country, as well as members of the team. My question about having "chaplains" of other religions was meant to further illustrate that.

"Is there a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi we haven't heard about?" is a question with an obvious answer - "no there isn't". The only religion being represented is Christianity because that is the dominate religion of the land and of Auburn University, not to mention Chett and Gus.

Trying to imply that Muslim or Jewish players were or ever have been refused a chaplain never entered my mind.

If a Jew or Muslim player existed on the team and asked for a chaplain, I trust that Malzahn or Chet Williams would accommodate them. I do not believe they would be ostracized or otherwise discriminated against because they aren't Christian.

My only point was to point out the focus of FFRF is not on Christianity per se', it's just that Christianity is the one and only religion at issue.

This attempt by you and DKW to twist my words to create an argument I never made obviously reflects an emotional need on your part to fight an enemy of your own imagination.

Like I said earlier, I don't think Auburn is doing anything wrong with Chett and I think this will blow over. Personally, I trust both Malzahn and Williams to do the right thing by administering to anyone regardless of their personal beliefs or to otherwise provide them the same service. If a Jewish or Muslim player requested a Jewish or Muslim counselor I trust that Malzahn or Chette would bend over backwards to accommodate him.

This crap about me implying otherwise comes from your own minds, not mine. And I am not going to tolerate some small-minded bigot like DKW telling me what I really meant just so he'll have something to rail against.

In other words, if you won't accept my explanation - of my own words - as the truth, then you are calling me a liar in which case there is nothing more for us to discuss. That would be a shame in your case because I generally like and respect you. So here's your chance to put some faith in me.

And if it helps, please do go back and read my posts in this thread. I just did so and I have been perfectly consistent as to what I meant.

[DKW 86 7,439]

Wow. A complete flip flop on his earlier post. Got to love old homie. Talks about something that turns out he knows nothing about. Claims AU denies team mullahs, team rabbis, etc when in reality AU isn't really involved in team anythings. Brother Chette is an FCA rep. He does not take a check from AU but from FCA and donors. So the long winded answer is that AU isn't really involved proactively at all.

[homersapien 11,427]

From the "Football forum" version of this subject, post # 146:

Homersapien: He's right. None of the coaches should be leading prayers, at least as part of a team activity. But there is nothing wrong with making pastors (of any faith) or counselors available to members of the team.

And Chette, because of his unique and authorized position, most certainly is in a position of authority, even if by just association.

Having said that, I don't think Auburn is doing anything illegal or even wrong, but the potential is there to create a coercive atmosphere. I would like to think the coaching staff is too professional to allow their religious prejudices to cloud their decisions regarding individuals or the team, but considering the visibility of Chet and the exclusively Christian-oriented influence of the FCA in the program, it is not unreasonable for FFR to ask for information.

To me, it's more disturbing to see the reaction of some who are obviously too invested personally from a religious standpoint to see this objectively. This is not an "attack" on Christianity. :-\

I haven't "flipped flop" at all. All along my focus has been on the false claim this is an attack on Christianity. I have never in that thread or this one suggested Malzahn or Chette have been playing favorites or otherwise neglecting non-Christians. Not once. I trust they wouldn't do that.

DKW - as he has done in the past - is fabricating arguments that weren't made then refusing to accept the writer's own explanation of what was intended.

That's worse than weaseling. That's playing the liar card with no evidence whatsoever. It reflects intellectual weakness, much less intellectual dishonesty.

[Weegle777 78]

homer, once again, you were talking out your rear end. you CLEARLY implied that Auburn University had in fact discriminated against someone.

HOMER:

Duuuuuh. Wonder why that is? :-\/>

Is there a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi we haven't heard about?

I asked when was one ever denied by Auburn University? Who was the player? What was the athletic team? When did this occur?

If there was a problem, i will drive it as hard as anyone to get it corrected. That would mean that there is establishment of a religion at Auburn University.

You implied that simply because there isnt one that can be named on this forum, by the way, there isnt an Auburn University team Christian Chaplain either, there is a chaplain paid for by the FCA that the athletes have access to, that therefore there must be denial by Auburn University. There may indeed be "a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi" that we on this forum just dont know about. But you infer that simply just because we are ignorant of such that therefore there cannot be one or that Auburn University has taken proactive stance to insure that one would be denied. You imply that since there isnt one known that Auburn must therefore be proactively stopping there from being one, and that AU Athletes are being proactively deprived of access to such. I am asking you: Do you know of even one player being so deprived? Who is/was that player? What team were they on? When did this happen? OR are you just talking our your rear orifice as per usual?

I think we have figured out what the truth is from you ducking the questions.

There isnt one player that was deprived named in the suit brought by FFRF either, btw.

You drew a mistaken inference. Don't sit there and tell me what I meant to say. You cannot prove an implication by definition. Especially when none was intended.

So you either accept that or go **** yourself. I am not going to engage in a discussion with someone who insists I am lying about what I meant.

Classy. Might want to read the Creed again.

[Weegle777 78]

Amazing that the mods just let that slide.

[homersapien 11,427]

homer, once again, you were talking out your rear end. you CLEARLY implied that Auburn University had in fact discriminated against someone.

HOMER:

Duuuuuh. Wonder why that is? :-\/>

Is there a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi we haven't heard about?

I asked when was one ever denied by Auburn University? Who was the player? What was the athletic team? When did this occur?

If there was a problem, i will drive it as hard as anyone to get it corrected. That would mean that there is establishment of a religion at Auburn University.

You implied that simply because there isnt one that can be named on this forum, by the way, there isnt an Auburn University team Christian Chaplain either, there is a chaplain paid for by the FCA that the athletes have access to, that therefore there must be denial by Auburn University. There may indeed be "a team mullah or team shaman or a team rabbi" that we on this forum just dont know about. But you infer that simply just because we are ignorant of such that therefore there cannot be one or that Auburn University has taken proactive stance to insure that one would be denied. You imply that since there isnt one known that Auburn must therefore be proactively stopping there from being one, and that AU Athletes are being proactively deprived of access to such. I am asking you: Do you know of even one player being so deprived? Who is/was that player? What team were they on? When did this happen? OR are you just talking our your rear orifice as per usual?

I think we have figured out what the truth is from you ducking the questions.

There isnt one player that was deprived named in the suit brought by FFRF either, btw.

You drew a mistaken inference. Don't sit there and tell me what I meant to say. You cannot prove an implication by definition. Especially when none was intended.

So you either accept that or go **** yourself. I am not going to engage in a discussion with someone who insists I am lying about what I meant.

Classy. Might want to read the Creed again.

I don't recall anything in the creed that says I should tolerate someone who persists in calling me a liar without evidence.

[Weegle777 78]

It's a message board of anonymous people. Why get so bent out of shape? You don't even know these people.

[Weegle777 78]

Would you say that to him face to face?

[homersapien 11,427]

Would you say that to him face to face?

Say what? That's he's calling me a liar by continuously rejecting my assertion I wasn't implying what he claims?

Certainly I would. Then I'd ignore him and carry on.

[homersapien 11,427]

It's a message board of anonymous people. Why get so bent out of shape? You don't even know these people.

Don't know 'em my ass. :-\ I think all of the long timers on this forum know each other - or at least their personas - pretty damn well.

Frankly, I think the standards for intellectual honesty are way too low. I'm not going to list all of the problems because they are obvious to anyone who really cares. And I'm not saying I am perfect by any means.

But there's something about making up stuff I neither said nor implied then essentially calling me a liar for truthfully saying I know what I meant, obviously.

Perhaps it hits my hot button because IMO one of the problems on this forum is a casual lack of regard about what was actually said (written).

I am careful of what I write and I expect any reader to first closely respect my words before responding and if they have a question, or want to make an inference then either ask or confirm it before charging off "in my name". And for God's sake, don't imply I am a liar for simply setting you straight.

That ends this discussion as far as I am concerned.

[Weegle777 78]

Would you say that to him face to face?

Say what? That's he's calling me a liar by continuously rejecting my assertion I wasn't implying what he claims?

Certainly I would. Then I'd ignore him and carry on.

No, would you tell him to go f*** himself, face to face?

[homersapien 11,427]

Would you say that to him face to face?

Say what? That's he's calling me a liar by continuously rejecting my assertion I wasn't implying what he claims?

Certainly I would. Then I'd ignore him and carry on.

No, would you tell him to go f*** himself, face to face?

Sure I would. Face to face. Go F*** yourself.

Otherwise I wouldn't have said it on this forum.

Is that clear enough?

[Weegle777 78]

Would you say that to him face to face?

Say what? That's he's calling me a liar by continuously rejecting my assertion I wasn't implying what he claims?

Certainly I would. Then I'd ignore him and carry on.

No, would you tell him to go f*** himself, face to face?

Sure I would. Face to face. Go F*** yourself.

Otherwise I wouldn't have said it on this forum.

Is that clear enough?

Said as an anonymous message board keyboard jockey. Yeah okay bud.

[DKW 86 7,439]

As usual, homie makes the crazy claim that AU is denying mullahs, shamans, and rabbis and when it is pointed out that it is ludicrously untrue tries to say he never really said that. SSDD around here.

[Weegle777 78]

Homer: