We shouldn't be basing our offense off of the Read Option anymore

[doc4aday 1,887]

16 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Run when they want and run when the need. Pass when they want and pass when they need.  They always dictate what they do and take advantage of what the D offers.

Hey Bird....how are things coming in the Houston area?  I hope folks are getting what they need to get their life back in order.

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

6 minutes ago, doc4aday said:

I think the old I formation pro style offense IS not the course to take. The Loffler experiment was a disaster. I know you are not suggesting this, but I just wanted to throw that baby out with the dirty water without hesitation.

Your suggestion of running an air-raid style offense is nothing short of brilliant. Why not totally adopt the offense that Art Briles ran at Baylor. That offense of itself and the success it had was an excellent display of creative offensive football. Before everyone jumps on me about Art, please understand that I am removing his character and the bad committed out of the equation. Briles offense was one of the most prolific in all of college football that I have ever seen & yet to have seen with any college team today.

 

I do like what Oklahoma State and Oklahoma Universities run. They are as creative as they come, and actually work well.

Reality sets in though, and we all know that Gus is NOT going to give up his offense totally for something else out there. He will lose far more control than he could tolerate without having a major heart attack or other dangerous health conditions brought on by a combination of stress and stubbornness. We will not see a tremendous about of change in our offense. The best we can hope for is for JS & MS to come into the elite level of what is needed to make Gus' offense click. We saw flashes of brilliance last season over the 6 game win streak.

 

I guess we will wait and see how the season plays out. One thing for sure is that like Forest Gump's chocolates, you never know what you will get when Gus opens up his box of offense!

I've never understood to this day, why more teams don't ultimately hybridize their spread like how Art did his. Taking and utilizing the STRONGEST aspects of every style of offense and creating plays that have multiple ways to attack adjustments built in is the best thing anyone has created, yet it's under-used. 

[Strychnine 1,804]

6 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

I've never understood to this day, why more teams don't ultimately hybridize their spread like how Art did his. Taking and utilizing the STRONGEST aspects of every style of offense and creating plays that have multiple ways to attack adjustments built in is the best thing anyone has created, yet it's under-used. 

 

One would even expect that to be common, given widespread availability of DVR's and internet access.  It is easy to get a look at what everyone is doing.

[80Tiger 901]

1 hour ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

I'm a fan of Sumlin's offensive type though. I do think it's potential outweighs what has happened in the past, largely due to their OC's play-calling. When utilized correctly, I think it can be a game breaker. 2 parts of Texas A&M's issue was the lack of a defined running back to make the run game click, as well as Sumlin never getting his top-flight QB that he really wanted. 2 things that Auburn has. 

Gotta disagree with Sumlin not getting his QB. He has raked in the top rated QB's over the years. I would have thought he was getting who he wanted.  They just haven't hung around very long.

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

3 minutes ago, 80Tiger said:

Gotta disagree with Sumlin not getting his QB. He has raked in the top rated QB's over the years. I would have thought he was getting who he wanted.  They just haven't hung around very long.

1

I guess in this case 'get' would mean, the recruit fully developing & maturing into the system. 

[keesler 5,928]

52 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

That's a feeling that Auburn hasn't had in a LONG time. Everything we have seems to feel like it's because the defense makes a mistake, not because of the fact that we actually impose or straight up beat them. 

This was Gus' whole premise on offense though, misdirection, speed - hurrying up to the LOS/meer cat to the sideline/catch the defense off balance and wear the D out/don't let 'em sub and go for the strike when the defense misses assignments, etc.  Gus couldn't impose his will and straight up beat the opponent so he had to devise a scheme that worked against the more talented, stronger, more physical opponents.  

And it did work at times, especially with a phenom like Cam coupled with a veteran Oline and Fairley/Frost type guys helping carry the load.    It worked with Nick Marshall because Nick was slippery as a snake and made something positive happen when things looked to collapse.

The SEC has some of the best DC's in the country, they studied and caught up, tweaked their defensive recruiting and built defenses that can execute against the misdirection, motion, and trickeration.  

Gus has gotten stuck in transition,  an now he finds himself in a tough spot.  Time's running out, he's GOT to decide what the hell he wants on offense, it's a make it work moment or he'll end up without that +$4.5mm/yr job at a high profile P5 program.  

 

[AU64 10,122]

JMO but the real problem with recruiting DT quarterbacks is accurately identifying them while they are still in HS.   Most are better athletes than the defenders they face and their foot speed and arm accuracy always looks 5*....but when they try the same stuff against a good college defense, it turns out that most of them are not quick enough to be a real threat or their passing is not sharp enough..  

We have missed them on both ends of the spectrum....DTs who could run but not pass or guys who could pass and were not fast enough to be a running threat....but it's not just us.  That goes on all over college football and you can see it with all the transferring around as QBs look for an offense that suits them.  

As for Oklahoma's offense for example....I'm more inclined to give about 90% of the credit to Mayfield and not whatever offense his coaches have dialed up.  Same at TAMU.....Johnny M drove people nuts with the KS offense...probably the same one that three or four subsequent top HS QBs could not master.   In the end...it's all about the QB and what he can do...and not just some scheme that the OC dreams up. JMO

One other observation on DTs.....sometimes coaches have to be lucky or very perceptive .....to find a guy like Jackson or Nick or maybe Willis who have the footwork and yet can pass well enough to be a serious threat with their arms too.    With JS....might as well forget the ZR.....he's still basically an older freshman in the way of experience and has a great upside....just watching him grow during the first three games here......just need to give him the right offense to use his talent.

[PoetTiger 1,900]

In the SEC you have to be able to run the ball when you need to and stop it when you have to. You get too fancy tossing it around and you get your QB knocked stupid or you throw picks. Even Spurrier’s fun and gun needed a Fred Taylor to make it work. I understand why Gus wants to establish the power run game because it opens up the play action pass game. However he has to diversify the routes and find a way to get the ball into playmakers hands like Myers and Davis. And please find a way to get the ball to the TE...

[aujeff11 6,243]

Great Work. Your formatting, in particular, seems to be off though. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

2 hours ago, keesler said:

This was Gus' whole premise on offense though, misdirection, speed - hurrying up to the LOS/meer cat to the sideline/catch the defense off balance and wear the D out/don't let 'em sub and go for the strike when the defense misses assignments, etc.  Gus couldn't impose his will and straight up beat the opponent so he had to devise a scheme that worked against the more talented, stronger, more physical opponents.  

And it did work at times, especially with a phenom like Cam coupled with a veteran Oline and Fairley/Frost type guys helping carry the load.    It worked with Nick Marshall because Nick was slippery as a snake and made something positive happen when things looked to collapse.

The SEC has some of the best DC's in the country, they studied and caught up, tweaked their defensive recruiting and built defenses that can execute against the misdirection, motion, and trickeration.  

Gus has gotten stuck in transition,  an now he finds himself in a tough spot.  Time's running out, he's GOT to decide what the hell he wants on offense, it's a make it work moment or he'll end up without that +$4.5mm/yr job at a high profile P5 program.  

 

Well said

[auburnphan 6,050]

I have been dreaming of a big boy offense for years, keep asking Santa and pray every night.  I write one letter a week to Gus and JJ.  Throw a quarter in a wishing well every time I see one.  Some day, some day.

[aujeff11 6,243]

45 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

I have been dreaming of a big boy offense for years, keep asking Santa and pray every night.  I write one letter a week to Gus and JJ.  Throw a quarter in a wishing well every time I see one.  Some day, some day.

I wouldn’t mind having a Stanford or USC offense. Cannot even imagine how many years it would take to play exceptionally within that pro-offense though. 

[CR 2,446]

Love the ideas Flex. If only Gus could somehow think of doing it on his own maybe he would consider it. I truly think he will not listen to anyone regarding offensive schemes because he thinks his way works better despite the pitiful showings against top level competition.
I think AU has plenty of offensive pieces in place to be way better than we have shown.

[DAG 34,017]

We can run the triple option for all I care . As long as it is productive .

[Randman5000 4,234]

Love the OP, I could geek on this thread all day. I would love for us to play wide open on offense ala Oklahoma St or Oklahoma. Or as so many have said throughout this season, just make adjustments that help an offense gain the advantage. If they see they are busting the line with blitzes, hit those tight end passes, throw the quick slants, throw the RB screens. I would love to see us have an offense that keeps the defense off-balance by staying balanced and where every position is a threat. It puts fear in the defense.

 

[Eagle-1 3,821]

18 hours ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

The title of this thread basically says it all:

 

I question the viability of a school and offense that outright relies so heavily on a QB's ability to be mobile as a primary weapon rather than as a safety blanket. Over the course of Auburn football, starting with the success of Cam Newton & continued success of Nick Marshall, I've started to see an acceptance of this thought pattern for the need to have a DT-QB as the CRUX of our attack. So much so, that we've taken to criticizing QBs that don't fit that mold for not being able to play in this system, rather than looking at the system itself and realizing it to be a broken one. I think it's time that we take a look at this offense and really begin to question whether this was the right path to continue down in the first place. This won't be a Coach Malzahn bashing thread either, simply a discussion of whether or not it's really worth having an offense that relies on the ability of the QB to be a runner as a primary threat. 

 

Now, make no mistake, I'm not saying that we don't go after athletic QBs that can hurt opponents with their feet & be mobile in lieu of towering artillery pocket passers. Quite the opposite, however, in making a DT runner at QB our first priority, we've done a couple of things which have led us to the current conundrum that we face on the team now:

 

1. Our recruiting rules out very competent QBs that can easily become EXTREMELY dangerous passers on the criteria of whether or not they're running threats.

2 Durability concerns become the forefront because we utilize the QB for such dangerous tasks.

3. Competent QBs (regardless of running ability) have stopped lining up to come to Auburn because they want to actually be prepped for the pro-game and learn +  flourish in intricate pass schemes as well as put up tremendous passing numbers, something that just doesn't happen in an offense that HAS to have the QB to attack as a runner + spread the ball around on the ground a certain number of times in order to even be effective through the air. (Due to simplistic route design, offensive lineman selection etc)

 

4. The BEST WRs don't want to come to a school where they're not going to be able to show off their ability to be top-flight receiving options. This much is true in our offense, which places SO MUCH focus on not only the run but also running with MULTIPLE runners including a priority on the QB himself being a runner. It's simply "Not Sexy" to recruit for, and any recruit with a decent knowledge of what they really want to do in the NFL and with other options will run from it.

5. A lack of focus on fundamental skills like route running and blocking techniques gets left behind in lieu of simply "getting the job done" since the emphasis isn't on attacking opponents through traditional means. I.E. Dominating the line of scrimmage (because rather than focusing on man-blocking schemes, you just want to get downfield and in the way of potential defenders), getting open with crisp and time-intensive developing routes (because your QB isn't a pass first and will be coached to take off, why hammer home crisp route running with slower routes when the internal clock in your QB's head will cause him to pull the ball down before that route can even develop, also you need to be able to turn around and block a defender on a moment's notice.) , and finally, timing routes that take the ability to sit in the pocket and keep eyes downfield rather than avoiding defenders and scrambling (This one is self-explanatory.).

 

Solution:

It's time to buck the "Spread to Run" mentality. Plain and simple. We have some integral pieces to move to a more "Big-12" or Texas A&M style system and FLOURISH. This is no truer than against lumbering teams like Alabama. The dangerousness of our original style under Chizick-Malzahn was the newness of it. Much like Chris Ault's combination of the pistol and the ZR, no one had ever seen something like our Hybrid-Amorphous Wing T. That's no longer the case, and it's starting to become MORE and MORE apparent the more we continue to try to operate under this system. 

 

We need to move to a more Air-Raid/Mike Leach style system that utilizes big bodies on the outside and inside combined with a speedy slot and 3-4 wide sets. Now I'm not saying forgo the run altogether, however, let's remember that we can be a pass-first team with a strong running game and still dominate. Our ideal form of offense would be something similar to Texas A&M. Nimble pass-protecting offensive linemen in 2 point stances, (You don't need offensive linemen to get down the field so much if you spread defenders out to the point where they can't reach your running backs no matter how fast because of angles & blocking.) Finally, our pass catchers, in order to still have an advantage in the run game, as well as have an advantage matchup wise need to be LARGE. To an extent, we have decent sized pass catchers excluding Cannella, however, our guys would be about the ideal size for our H-Slot receiver. Finally, a pass catching TE with the ability to block in space would be necessary. He would work out of the Y slot, once again opening the box up creating an easier time in the run game with VERY LITTLE need to structure your team for the run. If the opponent wants to cram the box anyways, then due to the TE being in the slot, he hurts them in the 'quick game.' A good base personnel structure for this type of offense would be the Carolina Panthers:

WR1/X - 6'4 - 6'5
Panther's Counterpart: Kelvin Benjamin
Possible Fits: Tommy Bush, Justyn Ross,

• This is your workhorse for all of your tough to make catches. He has a big body, and will GLADLY go deep over the middle to make the tough contested catch. He is typically your mid to deep threat and a typical go to for your QB's bad decisions because of his ENORMOUS catch radius. Not many corners can out-physical him, and he runs pretty good routes. He isn't the best route runner on the team, but his routes are good enough in combination with his size and speed that he can reliably be 'open' even with defenders draped and trailing him.
   
• As a blocker, he is the BEST one on the edge to block. His size advantage means that he will consistently out-leverage defenders and not only move them out of the picture, but also dominate them. This is KEY to your run game as he will often be matched up by himself which means only one defender. If he secures his end, cutbacks will almost ALWAYS hit for a massive gain if the back is fast enough and blocking is good up front.

 

 

WR2/Z - 6'2 - 6'4

Panther's Counterpart: Devin Funchess

Possible Fits: Kyle Davis, Nate Craig-Myers, Marquis McClain, Seth Williams, Richard Jibunor etc

• This is your second WR and almost a clone of your first WR. He doesn't need to be as tall as WR1, however, he should still be a large and imposing figure on the outside that can also work inwards and run out of bunch sets. This guy will be a much more Jack-Of-All trades sort of guy than just a big play threat like your first WR. Granted because of size, all of your WRs will hold special skill in possession receiving, this guy, if any of them, would be your possession receiver. His route running should be excellent and can be a lot more crisp than WR1, but won't necessarily be better than your H's routes as that'll be the best one on the team.
   
• The ideal is to go for another large body option that can still mismatch with just about every corner they go up against in both run and pass. 6'2 WRs will work here because there is MUCH less of a chance of teams (Not named Kentucky) having 2 large starting corners which allow for the smaller WR to be used here unless you want to work him out in the slot and put a bigger guy here that can still run routes well.
   
• Run game philosophy is the exact same for WR2 as WR1, but he doesn't have to be AS GOOD of a blocker.
   

WR3/H - 5'10 - 6'3

Panther's Counterpart: Curtis Samuel

Possible Fits: Will Hastings, Darius Slayton, Kyle Davis, Eli Stove, Nate Craig-Myers, etc

• This guy is one of the most important guys in this offense. He is without a doubt your fastest and best route runner on the team. He doesn't need to be big, but points if you have an athletic freak who is big enough, yet still runs crispy routes. His catching must also be off the charts as he will be running routes in tandem with your Y/TE almost all of the time, which requires him to do a lot of picks, rubs, and Ins that focus on losing pursuing defenders in traffic. The humble jet sweep can also be an option with this guy just for a bit of throwback fun, but luckily enough, an RB can actually sub into this position and still be just as dangerous.
   
• Going deep with this man certainly will put stress on the defense, but it isn't a requirement for him to really be a deep ball threat. If you have a do-it all guy that can go up for the deep ball, just put him here in packages, but otherwise, the focus here should be catching in traffic and running routes. If you go the deep-ball route, having a larger guy here is recommended, but don't forget that  your Y will also be running in the slot as well and will be a TE so don't feel required to do this.
   
• Blocking here is probably the least important, but as with all…. If you have a guy who can do it, then why not?
   

WR4 (TE1)/Y - 6'3 - 6'6

Panther's Counterpart: Greg Olsen

Possible Fits: Sal Cannella, Luke Ford, Michael Ezeike

• He's the model of player that this entire offense's philosophy was based off of, the cornerstone of everything you like to do offensively, and a problem matchup-wise. The receiving TE that can block and crack in space. He runs routes like a WR, but has the size and bulk of a TE. Do teams roll a safety down to cover him in man, or play up in order to disguise coverages, do they move the LB over into space a play him, or maybe they have to bring in an extra DB? The possibilities are endless with this guy, and because of his size, the aforementioned plan puts opponents at a disadvantage in the run game. My idea of this position would be Ricky Seals-Jones if he were playing TE (As I thought he should have been.)
   
• A lot of his routes will go on in the seams, but he will also work together with your SWR to provide another safety blanket for your QB while he tries to hit the big plays with WR1 & WR2 on the edges, which will be giving DBs all that they can handle.
   
• He can fearlessly go across the middle, catch high passes from behind hooking LBs and safely get you 1st downs almost on cue if the safety is playing off of him. This position is the true wildcard of the offense and there is simply no personnel answer for him, especially if the opposing team has already placed their bigger bodied CBs on the edges to deal with your twin towers.
   
• Half of the fun of having this guy is where to line him up at. Do you leave him in the slot the whole time like Jace Amaro in Texas Tech's offense, or Jimmy Graham, or do you sometimes get him one on one matchups in a Trio set with him to the nub? You tell me. There is no wrong answer with this guy.
   

FB1 (TE2) - 6'3 - 6'4

Panther's Counterpart: Ed Dickson
Possible Fits: Jalen Harris

• Need to bring in a FB? Don't bother with a true fullback when you can simply pull a blocking TE that can also still run routes. This position adds some goal-line versatility in that you basically can line up in packages that scream run, but still whisper pass.
   
• In the case of the Panthers, Ed Dickson embodies this. He is a solid blocking TE option, but still runs routes and catches the ball well without sacrificing size. Yes his time at Baltimore was littered with drops, but when he caught the ball, he caught the ball and ran with it. Also see his Oregon college film to know what I mean.
   
• By now, the opposing team HAS to place an LB on this guy, so you can easily motion him out from the backfield into a WR's place and suddenly, you're in passing mode while the defense is lined up in a run-heavy set. Checkmate.
   

RB1 (Power) - 5'11 - 6'3

Panther's Counterpart: Jonathan Stewart
Possible Fits: Kamryn Pettway (Leaving), Harold Joiner, Malik Miller, Jeremy Banks

• This is an essential position. You need a stronger back mainly because that's how you'll take advantage of having the defense having to resort to smaller packages to defend against your pass game. Larger stronger backs will have field days with this setup, but they can't be slow. This back still needs to have speed, just maybe a little wiggle isn't required.
   
• He must be able to break tackles at the first level and truck smaller 2nd level defenders and shrug off the larger ones. One of the greatest advantages that he will have is that some defenses will need to flatten out their safeties or LBs across the LOS to help in coverage in certain sets or be forced to go small in order to keep from being "honest" this basically gives him a much better chance of breaking a big run if he is fast enough.
   
• The intent is to have your RBs play by committee, but if you have a strong, agile, and versatile back who can catch passes, then you've got the holy grail because you've basically achieved PERFECT personnel balance. And will have NO trouble taking advantage of whatever the defense gives you. He can motion out to be a WR if need be, and in the case of Joiner & Banks, still have a height advantage on most linebackers.
   
• Although you can get around him not being great at protection if he can catch, he SHOULD be serviceable in protection. Many times, this will be your only guy to pick up blitzes, which is the weakness of this offensive system. If he can't protect, have him play outlet receiver, or he can't play this spot. He doesn't need to be a tremendous blocker because of all the options your QB will have to throw to on any given play.
  
   

RB2 (Receiving/Slasher) - 5'9 - 6'3

Panther's Counterpart: Christian McCaffrey

Possible Fits: Kerryon Johnson etc.

• If your power back can't catch or run routes to save his life, don't think this is the end of the world. This guy will simply pick up that workload for you. He should be on par with a receiver when it comes to catching, and be able to play in the H-slot depending on personnel groupings. Out of the backfield he should embarrass linebackers in man to man coverage and take them out to be ridiculed in front of town-square.
   
• This guy should be able to cut on a dime, since the run-game will be zone blocking 100%, he will often be looking for cutbacks unless he has some strength to muscle through tackles, so a bit of a more patient running style will be necessary. Keep in mind he will be running out of offset gun and pistol alignments so he can't be a straight up singleback formation runner.
  
   

This is my ideal personnel for this new offensive system I believe we should be running. Of course, there are some tweaks and different modifications that can be made based on the names I've selected as possible fits, and these aren't too in depth, but the philosophy remains the same.

 

Wish I could like this post a thousand times!  I was hoping we were getting something along these lines with Lindsey. However, what we basically got was Gus' offense with a few crossing routes, and a few more deep balls mixed in. I tried to convince some guys on here before the season started that if Auburn was going to be a dominant force in this conference again that we has to develop a dangerous attacking passing game. I agree with another poster that Oklahoma's offense should be the model for such an offensive system. I also disagree that Oklahoma is successful because of Mayfield. Mayfield is a great player, but Oklahoma has had record breaking QB's for years now. Air raid concepts will certainly work in the SEC, and our recruiting of offensive skill players would be off the charts. Look at what Freeze was able to do at Ole Miss with basically an air raid system. Taking down the mighty Tide twice in a row, or was it twice in three years? Anyway you get the point. The way Freeze's offense utilized Evan Engram made me drool on myself every time I watched it. Auburn is in a unique situation, having to compete for recruits while surrounded by instate programs both in Alabama, and Georgia. Throw in the competition for recruits we must face in the state of Florida, and it becomes evident to me that we need an offense that skill players would be excited to be a part of. I am convinced that we missed out on the best dual threat QB to come out of our recruiting hotbed in many years in Deshaun Watson, because he was not about to play under Gus, and be labeled as a running QB. No, he went to Clemson, where he could air the ball out 35- 50 times a game. I will also say that in a more air raid system, it will not detrimentaly affect our RB recruiting, before anyone brings that up. After all, it's not like we have been setting the woods on fire in that department lately anyway. Thanks for the post Flex. I couldn't agree more!

[AuburnNTexas 7,174]

18 hours ago, bigbird said:

I would love an offense like OU's

How much of that is OU's offense and how much of that is Mayfield. He buys so much time for his receivers and can throw so well on the run plus he can also pick up running yardage.  I am not disagreeing with you I love the OU offense but with Nick and CAM Gus was a genius.  My problem is not with the basic Offense Gus is running  but with the fact that he can't add pieces to it. Quick wheel routes to the backs hitting them as they turn up-field instead of hitting then when running east-west, quick slants behind the LB's, fake to the back then quick shuffle pass. Pulling TE with a shuffle pass to TE. 

The shuffle pass really impact the pass rush as it prevents the pass rushers from laying their ears back and taking themselves out of position.

[bigbird 60,580]

8 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

How much of that is OU's offense and how much of that is Mayfield. He buys so much time for his receivers and can throw so well on the run plus he can also pick up running yardage.  I am not disagreeing with you I love the OU offense but with Nick and CAM Gus was a genius.  My problem is not with the basic Offense Gus is running  but with the fact that he can't add pieces to it. Quick wheel routes to the backs hitting them as they turn up-field instead of hitting then when running east-west, quick slants behind the LB's, fake to the back then quick shuffle pass. Pulling TE with a shuffle pass to TE. 

The shuffle pass really impact the pass rush as it prevents the pass rushers from laying their ears back and taking themselves out of position.

To me, OU's offense has been diverse, way before Mayfield. They have always been difficult to defend. As you said, we've never been able to add/adjust.

[jtauburntiger 119]

Sorry Flex- i am sure that was an awesome post, and I enjoyed the first couple of paragraphs... but my ADD kicked in about 1/5 of the way in - my attention span just doesn't allow me to fini

[Beaker 2,457]

I loved the part about targeting DT QBs limits our recruiting and turns away some great WR talent....story of our lives here recently.  Thanks for writing that - great read.

 

I know we could run a great offense that attracts talent b/c kids will want to come.  Auburn always attracts great talent, but I think scheme and ??? make it difficult to get some of the recruits we target.   And imagine if we did not have Stidham right now.  Holy jumping monkeys!!!

 

Spurrier's Fun and Gun O helped him recruit a ton of talent - and the point about kids wanting to go to a program that could get them to the NFL - BOOM, there you have it.  Time for us to evolve as we make progress this year.

 

[Gowebb11 9,376]

20 hours ago, 80Tiger said:

Not sure I would want to point to Texas A&M as what we want to be. There is still a real change Sumlin gets fired this year and his only real success was with Manziel as QB.

Sumlin and Malzahn have almost identical records. Not a lot of difference in our results the past few years. 

[alexava 6,973]

We haven't based our offense off the zone read since 2014.. before Cam Gus never based an offense on a running quarterback. Didn't with nick until 4-5 games into the season. If you've got it use it. I would recruit for it and adjust my scheme to fit players. But I love the zone read. 

[meh130 1,053]

Great stuff. I agree with most of it. I would say, I think Malzahn's original offense was intended to have some of this, he just didn't have much success at AU with this approach (for various reasons). Instead, he found success with a blend of his 2-back power running plays (the original Malzahn running offense) and the zone read option stuff he learned at Tulsa from Herb Hand. The power running and option running complemented each other, which meant there was not much reason to rely on passing. And the passing game he had was overly simple.

Malzahn also liked to archetype players into positions.

I think a more complex passing game, with more options for the QB, more routes, etc. is a good idea. I also like the idea of a player like Sal playing the hybrid TE/WR that Uzomah played.

When you go 4-wide and no H-Back/FB, you pretty much eliminate the power running plays, which almost forces the use of zone-read option running plays as your running constraint play.  However, other "Power Spread" teams like Urban Meyer's have been more effective using the TE or H-Back in the passing game, as has Penn State this year. So it is possible to combine the concepts.

It is okay for a non Dual-Threat QB in a more passing centric, or Air-Raid spread offense to occasionally run a zone read option play. Ole Miss did this pretty well.

We know we have what it takes to run the ball. I would love to see us bring more Air-Raid concepts into the offense. The original Air Raid offense at Kentucky was done out of Pro-Set, 21 Personnel Group offense. Originally it was not even a shotgun. It evolved into 3WR, then a QB shotgun 4WR, 1RB, 10 Personnel Group offense later. Only after that did Mike Leach go crazy with his 4-Verticals stuff.

I hear a lot of people on this board say "where is the TE"? I don't care, as long as we have a line, along with an RB, that can block a 4-man rush, and a plan to put the H-Back into a pass route, or the H-Back block and the RB go out on a route. I am also fine with a hand-down TE instead of an H-Back, or a flexed TE like Sal/Uzomah. Let's just get more competent passing, and give the QB more options.

As for the hand-down TE vs. H-Back, the H-Back originally was in Malzahn's power running offense derived from the Wing-T. It allows point of attack blocking for the power runs, but the truth is you can do that with pulling guards if you use a TE. The H-Back is an awesome thing to have in a zone read option game, especially the Inside Zone Read, to block the scraping ILB, or to allow a change-up of the read defender, but we don't need it as much if we ran less zone reads.

Last point. Clemson has done a great job of expanding the Tulsa Malzahn/Hand playbook. Also, Penn State runs a similar offense and has expanded it. We should do the same.

[meh130 1,053]

6 hours ago, alexava said:

We haven't based our offense off the zone read since 2014.. before Cam Gus never based an offense on a running quarterback. Didn't with nick until 4-5 games into the season. If you've got it use it. I would recruit for it and adjust my scheme to fit players. But I love the zone read. 

True. We haven't based our offense on it, but we ran it a fair amount with SW, which is part of the reason he got hurt. Notice JS will always slide or go out of bounds the few times we have run it this year. That is fine. A QB running for 5 yards and sliding on an IZR is as good as a RB getting 5 yards inside.

I think the problem with recruiting dual-threat QBs is they often are not reliable at passing. Cam Newton was the exception.

[alexava 6,973]

53 minutes ago, meh130 said:

True. We haven't based our offense on it, but we ran it a fair amount with SW, which is part of the reason he got hurt. Notice JS will always slide or go out of bounds the few times we have run it this year. That is fine. A QB running for 5 yards and sliding on an IZR is as good as a RB getting 5 yards inside.

I think the problem with recruiting dual-threat QBs is they often are not reliable at passing. Cam Newton was the exception.

Sean was scrambling when he got hurt vs ole miss. Should have slid vs Oklahoma. I don't recall his other injuries.