Leadership, vision hard to find in stormy times

[lost 452]

1 minute ago, ToraGirl said:

I think I am lost. I missed the panic. But I think where pseudo-panic is emerging is because wheels appear to be turning. 

All of a sudden, for both some status-quo supporters and some non, the possibilities of certain individuals even being mentioned for possible positions has unleashed an emotional...and small (POSSIBLY) logical frenzy (but only in a interpolational way). We're possibly moving from hypothetical to reality. That in itself is game changing. 

Friends. Romans Countrymen. Shall we not just wait and see? Can we agree that we measure success differently, view risk at various levels of security, note patterns at different rates of speed, and choose details over big picture preferentially? And vv?

That's why there are 16 different Myers-Briggs personality prototypes. Imagine us all agreeing on a candidate. But if one can't take the drama that comes with shifting sands..."All Things Considered"...it's up to you to figure out how to deal with it. 

My opposition is the upheaval money wise.   We are in a time in this nation you never know what the financial systems are going to do.   I would rather not dig a deeper hole for AUBURN UNIVERSITY.   i can abide 8-10 wins a season for a couple more years-- as long as we don't fall behind in facilities and recruiting.

[ToraGirl 5,498]

1 minute ago, lost said:

My opposition is the upheaval money wise.   We are in a time in this nation you never know what the financial systems are going to do.   I would rather not dig a deeper hole for AUBURN UNIVERSITY.   i can abide 8-10 wins a season for a couple more years-- as long as we don't fall behind in facilities and recruiting.

Amen! Thinking they may just have ideas on this, too, without preserving the status quo. Very hopeful. 

[bigbird 60,571]

7 minutes ago, lost said:

There you go again Bird.  Answer this . Where have all the others finished?  Leave bama out of the equation.  Who else plays a 10 plus win Georgia every year? Les Miles averaged 10 wins a year, but Ogeron hasn't.  Mullen went 9-4 in 2010 and was 5th.   So NO-- GUS HAS NOT BEEN CONSISTENTLY at a high level , but about every other year he is in the race for the sec title--even with bama and lsu and ga being at the highest level they have been

I'm sorry, I'm a little lost on what your trying to say. So it's the schedule that's the issue? 

What years are you saying we are in the hunt for the SEC title? By my count, '13 and '17 were the only two. By November we've been out of the race in the other 5 years. That's not competing for titles.

[lost 452]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I'm sorry, I'm a little lost on what your trying to say. So it's the schedule that's the issue? 

What years are you saying we are in the hunt for the SEC title? By my count, '13 and '17 were the only two. By November we've been out of the race in the other 5 years. That's not competing for titles.

We were competing this year.  You just can't dismiss that. It is not fair to this team or coach.  beat Ga and we are in the talk for NC

[bigbird 60,571]

Just now, lost said:

We were competing this year.  You just can't dismiss that. It is not fair to this team or coach

We were competing until our offense decided not to show up at UF. It then decided not to show up 2 more times. By Halloween we were out of the race. That's not competing for the West or the SEC

[lost 452]

Doggone you big yellow parakeet!!!    Did you even try the glasses on?

[bigbird 60,571]

Just now, lost said:

Doggone you big yellow parakeet!!!    Did you even try the glasses on?

Yes, they seemed very nearsighted

[lost 452]

Seriously,

I don't believe i have ever read or even ask you.  Who do you have in mind you would like to get, or would be plausible to replace Gus if let go?  Especially if he beat bama, won his bowl game and finished 10-3.  To me it makes a big difference in how the next Coach would view Auburn and his possible tenure

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

15 minutes ago, lost said:

We were competing this year.  You just can't dismiss that. It is not fair to this team or coach.  beat Ga and we are in the talk for NC

By this line of reasoning and logic, we are competing every year...until we aren't. Our Schedule is heavy on the backend. We usually mid-season with 4-5 wins over teams with lesser talent, and minimum 1 loss against a team with equal or better talent....then when we line up with the big dogs we fall out of the race....nearly every year. 

 

Edit- I used this logic to stay on the bus for an extra 2 years...because I wanted Gus to succeed. I would defend him and say things like "He has had us relevant in the CFP rankings in early Nov. every year...but that is because we haven't played our rivals yet. You add that with the flops against teams we should be like MSST and UT last year, and the job just isn't getting done. 

I honestly believe there are 20 plus coaches out there that could come and win 8 games a year. If we hire someone who can keep Auburn recruiting where they have historically, and dang near anybody can out-talent the majority of our schedule to average 8 wins. 

 

[bigbird 60,571]

9 minutes ago, lost said:

Seriously,

I don't believe i have ever read or even ask you.  Who do you have in mind you would like to get, or would be plausible to replace Gus if let go?  Especially if he beat bama, won his bowl game and finished 10-3.  To me it makes a big difference in how the next Coach would view Auburn and his possible tenure

 

On 10/30/2019 at 2:35 PM, bigbird said:

Offensive minded:

Cristobal

Heupel

Norvell

Yurcich

Cale Gundy (tough pull)

Jeff Scott

 

Defensive minded:

Aranda

Vennables

Mel Tucker

Jim Leonhard

Dan Lanning (Big Stretch, but worked with him some at SHSU. He'll be a star someday soon)

 

[selias 2,398]

10 minutes ago, lost said:

Seriously,

I don't believe i have ever read or even ask you.  Who do you have in mind you would like to get, or would be plausible to replace Gus if let go?  Especially if he beat bama, won his bowl game and finished 10-3.  To me it makes a big difference in how the next Coach would view Auburn and his possible tenure

The season is defined by more than just beating Bama and I have my doubts we can beat them with their back-up QB playing. It's the same story every year and it's time to reverse the trend of Gus needing a flash in the pan QB to make a serious run. His offensive style and lack of roster management is unsustainable.

[lost 452]

7 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

By this line of reasoning and logic, we are competing every year...until we aren't. Our Schedule is heavy on the backend. We usually mid-season with 4-5 wins over teams with lesser talent, and minimum 1 loss against a team with equal or better talent....then when we line up with the big dogs we fall out of the race....nearly every year. 

 

Edit- I used this logic to stay on the bus for an extra 2 years...because I wanted Gus to succeed. I would defend him and say things like "He has had us relevant in the CFP rankings in early Nov. every year...but that is because we haven't played our rivals yet. You add that with the flops against teams we should be like MSST and UT last year, and the job just isn't getting done. 

I honestly believe there are 20 plus coaches out there that could come and win 8 games a year. If we hire someone who can keep Auburn recruiting where they have historically, and dang near anybody can out-talent the majority of our schedule to average 8 wins. 

 

That was not a line of reasoning.  That was the exact truth.  If Nix had hit his running back instead of throwing behind him AU probably would have scored and knotted it up.  They had all the momentum in the world.  A WIN put them about 6-7th and in the talk for a NC.. DENY IT, CRY, But it is the truth.  I also understand the florida game, the lsu game we could have won-- but the truth is we were competing for a NC until we lost to Ga

[Scottie 124]

2 hours ago, lost said:

Again,  2013.  Everybody knew what was coming but could not stop it.   It is execution, not Gus just being hard headed.   Watch Gus grab his head in frustration.  Right call, but OL.Receivers, etc not getting it done.    Yes changes need to be made, but Gus ain't lost it....   He is not Saban, but he can beat Saban

 

43 minutes ago, lost said:

My opposition is the upheaval money wise.   We are in a time in this nation you never know what the financial systems are going to do.   I would rather not dig a deeper hole for AUBURN UNIVERSITY.   i can abide 8-10 wins a season for a couple more years-- as long as we don't fall behind in facilities and recruiting.

 

I am just going to focus on these two statements. It is Gus' job to bring in the right people to help develop these players to execute.  Instead, he brought in a bunch of ex-Auburn players and yes men on offense. I like Kodi, but why the heck are we paying him $500,000 a year to be the WR coach? You mention the receivers need to execute better; well, that is on Kodi. The line needs to execute better, well that is on Hand/Grimes. We've since this JABA crud before. To me JABA is about bringing in yes men to agree with you rather than the best people.  We are falling behind in recruiting, but the numbers just don't show it right now.  The word is out that Auburn/Gus cannot develop offensive players. That is a hard stigma to break without significant change. Change that has not come in years. That is why people are pissed off.

Edit: You may be right that removing Gus isn't the answer, but keeping around ineffective skill coaches isn't the answer either. That is the definition of JABA.  His offense isn't working.

[jAUSon 2,836]

2 hours ago, gr82be said:

... but ten games in he's calling plays the defense know is coming. 

@lost

he's calling plays the defense know is coming

he's calling plays the defense know is coming

he's calling plays the defense know is coming

he's calling plays the defense know is coming

he's calling plays the defense know is coming

[ChltteTiger 649]

2 hours ago, lost said:

Actually it is the opposite.  Who else got us to the point of competing for these?  Gus Malzhan is connected to it all.  Ignore it, but it is true.   That is why you just don't have hissy fits because every year he does not do it like Saban.  There is only one Saban

Posts like this are the very reason we see the same old arguments over and over and over again concerning  how Malzahn is failing. The 99% of readers on this board who see the reality of the situation have to challenge this kind of nonsense. SMH!!

[lost 452]

6 minutes ago, ChltteTiger said:

Posts like this are the very reason we see the same old arguments over and over and over again concerning  how Malzahn is failing. The 99% of readers on this board who see the reality of the situation have to challenge this kind of nonsense. SMH!!

The reality of the situation is whiny Auburn fans who want instant gratification.  One more time.  How many NC'S have we got that we claim.  2.   How many have we played for since Gus was either Coordinator or Coach--  2.   How many undefeated seasons have we had since 2000?  2.  Gus is responsible for one, and almost two.   All I am saying is IF he wins 10 this year , you take your time and find the right man and urge him to his own time to leave in the next 2 years

[KnightTiger 205]

4 hours ago, bigbird said:

It's not the losses. It's the absolute lack of progression over the last 6 years, the same baffling coaching mistakes, and the lack of program development. Each year is year one. We never progress or improve from year to year.

this ^ was listening an a local auburn talk show the other day guys on there said Gus just refuses to adapt opposing Defenses have caught up with him and for some reason he chooses to be stubborn and refuses to adapt he thinks he can win with the same style of scheme he won with in 2010 and 2013. but defenses have adapted to that scheme and he cant win with it anymore

[bigbird 60,571]

4 minutes ago, lost said:

The reality of the situation is whiny Auburn fans who want instant gratification. 

7 years takes it way past instant gratification.  How many more years do you think he needs to become a consistent winner?

[lost 452]

6 minutes ago, bigbird said:

7 years takes it way past instant gratification.  How many more years do you think he needs to become consistent?

Bird, I don't know how old you are but i am 59.  At this age i have learned sometimes you have to bite the bullet and suffer a while and chose your battles carefully.  I don't see how anybody can't see the financial foolishness of paying another buyout and getting another huge set of coaches salaries to boot.   It just does not make good sense UNLESS YOU ARE ABOUT TO LOSE YOUR PROGRAM.  We are not in that position.   What i am referring to with the instant gratification is the PENN STATE QB getting death threats after their loss to Minnesota, and them being 10-1?????   Just unreal!!!!!   We fit in the same category, people entirely willing to sell AUBURN down the river on a 10 win season

[Tiger 8,829]

I'll never understand how people are so attached to the idea of not spending the buyout money like it actually has something to do with their own funds. Do we have some major boosters on here?

[Scottie 124]

Just now, lost said:

Bird, I don't know how old you are but i am 59.  At this age i have learned sometimes you have to bite the bullet and suffer a while and chose your battles carefully.  I don't see how anybody can't see the financial foolishness of paying another buyout and getting another huge set of coaches salaries to boot.   It just does not make good sense UNLESS YOU ARE ABOUT TO LOSE YOUR PROGRAM.  We are not in that position.   What i am referring to with the instant gratification is the PENN STATE QB getting death threats after their loss to Minnesota, and them being 10-1?????   Just unreal!!!!!   

Referring to the Penn State QB is a straw man fallacy bud, and I agree that it is unreal that he is getting death threats. That situation is completely different than the one we are talking about though.  I'm not as old as you, but I am old enough to remember the years when the town and fans gave up on Auburn during Chizik's last year.  I remember how how both he and Tuberville hired yes men, and it caused stagnation of the team; I have enough history and seen enough things to recognize those same patterns. I've gone through enough in the last 7 years too to know how precious time is too.  Is that extra year or two keeping Gus worth the sacrifice of these young men's time versus the buyout?  These men have a limited time to make an impression and get to the next level; a limited amount of time that I am not willing to sacrifice with a coach that won't adapt and won't develop.  Is it enough to believe in a coach to hope it might get better when in 7 years it hasn't?  What's going to be the catalyst for change?

[bigbird 60,571]

1 hour ago, lost said:

Bird, I don't know how old you are but i am 59.  At this age i have learned sometimes you have to bite the bullet and suffer a while and chose your battles carefully.  I don't see how anybody can't see the financial foolishness of paying another buyout and getting another huge set of coaches salaries to boot.   It just does not make good sense UNLESS YOU ARE ABOUT TO LOSE YOUR PROGRAM.  We are not in that position.   What i am referring to with the instant gratification is the PENN STATE QB getting death threats after their loss to Minnesota, and them being 10-1?????   Just unreal!!!!!   We fit in the same category, people entirely willing to sell AUBURN down the river on a 10 win season

I'm old enough to understand and experienced enough in the industry to recognize incompetency and stagnation.  That is exactly what we have been seeing the last 5 years.

We are supposed to be a family. In my eyes the players that commit to Auburn to play are part of that family, not the coaches that are paid to be here. As members of the AU family it is our responsibility to look out for one another. The players are not being given the opportunities they deserve and were promised. The players deserve better than averaging 5 losses a year.

You're worried about the money. The money is going to be paid by a private donation. It's not going to hurt the University. 

[bigbird 60,571]

@lost exactly which part did you not like?

[tigerbrotha12 2,362]

3 hours ago, DAG said:

What do you consider competing ? You are the second person who has said that so I need to hear some definitions. Competing to me is what Miss state has done to us under Gus Malzahn . 

I think we at least have a chance to win every game we play with Malzahn at the helm, and we generally don't get blown out of the water by any team, including top 10 teams. We consistently are in the game in the 4th quarter against top opponents. I certainly understand there is a difference between being in those games and winning those games, but I worry we would find no one else with the same ability to keep us in those games within the next year. If you keep Malzahn, you are in the game in every fourth quarter and you generally have a shot at the CFP in November. Been like that almost every year he's been here save for '15 and '18. Where do you find someone much better than that without some dumb luck (Clemson, LSU)...

[Scottie 124]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

@lost exactly which part did you not like?

He did the same to me.