Leadership, vision hard to find in stormy times

[bigbird 60,571]

6 minutes ago, tigerbrotha12 said:

We consistently are in the game in the 4th quarter against top opponents.

You really think that's because of Gus and his offense?

[AU64 10,122]

Seems maybe the major issue right now is "leadership" and whether AU can properly handle this issue.  

I like AG but he's relatively young and inexperienced at this kind of thing and JG is only temporary and probably not wanting to make this kind of decision that's gonna have such big time ramifications.   Bottom line IMO is that we are not in position to make the right decision though I guess some of the BOT might want to take the responsibility.  Either way,  likely, nothing is gonna happen unless there is a meltdown during the bama game.   

I've seen about 20 names on the list of desirable candidates and likely most would not be interested or even realistic HC candidates to win in the SEC West.   The amount of the buyout is a bad excuse for not taking action....but the prospects that we are not in a position to make a good decision or selection is something else.

[Scottie 124]

3 minutes ago, tigerbrotha12 said:

I think we at least have a chance to win every game we play with Malzahn at the helm, and we generally don't get blown out of the water by any team, including top 10 teams. We consistently are in the game in the 4th quarter against top opponents. I certainly understand there is a difference between being in those games and winning those games, but I worry we would find no one else with the same ability to keep us in those games within the next year. If you keep Malzahn, you are in the game in every fourth quarter and you generally have a shot at the CFP in November. Been like that almost every year he's been here save for '15 and '18. Where do you find someone much better than that without some dumb luck (Clemson, LSU)...

Finding a legitimate coach is the same worry I have at the moment. That is the only reason I am on the fence for finding another coach.

I'm going to play devils advocate. We are usually in the game in the 4th quarter for a lot of games, even those games where we have no business being that close to at the moment. Tennessee comes to mind; the game where the coach was literally calling our plays.

[lost 452]

Both of you mentioned the "young men".  The young men like Derrick Brown? He is still on the team coached by Gus.  Just because Steele is head D, does not mean Gus ia not responsible.  So don't pick out a young man and blame Gus for not "developing" him.  That is ridiculous.  Nix done what Nix did, and Gus didn't do anything to make him inaccurate.  Gatewood had no guarantee of being any better, even if he did start.  I am sick of the  hate and prejudice of an Auburn program and coach, simply.   I saw mistakes by Gus--- I sure did.  But i saw mistakes by players and i can't lay that all on Gus

[lost 452]

3 minutes ago, bigbird said:

You really think that's because of Gus and his offense?

You really think Steele is not coached by Gus?

[bigbird 60,571]

Just now, lost said:

You really think Steele is not coached by Gus?

I know for a fact he isn't

[lost 452]

Just now, bigbird said:

I know for a fact he isn't

Not calling you a liar but i don't believe that.  I believe Gus still is the head coach, not Steele

[lost 452]

We are not that far apart.  We all love Auburn.  We all know Gus has been failing.   We just differ on timing and attitude

[Scottie 124]

10 minutes ago, lost said:

Both of you mentioned the "young men".  The young men like Derrick Brown? He is still on the team coached by Gus.  Just because Steele is head D, does not mean Gus ia not responsible.  So don't pick out a young man and blame Gus for not "developing" him.  That is ridiculous.  Nix done what Nix did, and Gus didn't do anything to make him inaccurate.  Gatewood had no guarantee of being any better, even if he did start.  I am sick of the  hate and prejudice of an Auburn program and coach, simply.   I saw mistakes by Gus--- I sure did.  But i saw mistakes by players and i can't lay that all on Gus

First, I didn't pick out a single player or mention a single name. Do players make mistakes? Yes, everyone does. What I am talking about here is a continued display of lack of development of players across seven years on the offensive side. I'm talking about running players in to the ground, not knowing your strengths going in to a season, talking points at game 10 of the season where the offense is "still a work in progress", not using players in their skill set, and hiring yes men to his staff.  As for DB, I would come back too to play with what was going to be the dominant d; last year's draft class was heavy d-line wise as well. Plus, he gets to play with his brother. Nix is a freshman, which I'm not going to place blame on; he has played admirably, but why was there not a suitable back-up? Why, knowing that that Gatewood was so raw, was there not another plan? We saw it with several other highly touted players too?

 

What about the other players that bought in to the Gus offense that aren't being used or developed? They may be unhappy, but they stay around because any other immediately costs them a year of eligibility unless they red shirt transfer. We can't cherrypick players or use straw man fallacies in this discussion. There is a trend here, and your next comment is what bird, and I are saying:

 

6 minutes ago, lost said:

 We all know Gus has been failing.  

 

[lost 452]

24 minutes ago, Scottie said:

First, I didn't pick out a single player or mention a single name. Do players make mistakes? Yes, everyone does. What I am talking about here is a continued display of lack of development of players across seven years on the offensive side. I'm talking about running players in to the ground, not knowing your strengths going in to a season, talking points at game 10 of the season where the offense is "still a work in progress", not using players in their skill set, and hiring yes men to his staff.  As for DB, I would come back too to play with what was going to be the dominant d; last year's draft class was heavy d-line wise as well. Plus, he gets to play with his brother. Nix is a freshman, which I'm not going to place blame on; he has played admirably, but why was there not a suitable back-up? Why, knowing that that Gatewood was so raw, was there not another plan? We saw it with several other highly touted players too?

 

What about the other players that bought in to the Gus offense that aren't being used or developed? They may be unhappy, but they stay around because any other immediately costs them a year of eligibility unless they red shirt transfer. We can't cherrypick players or use straw man fallacies in this discussion. There is a trend here, and your next comment is what bird, and I are saying:

 

 

No my comments are still respectful to an Auburn coach.  Y’all seem to have no problem maligning a team.  Somehow you believe that your comments are just about Gus.  I can’t accept that and I don’t believe an Auburn team could accept it.  They know.  You don’t know nothing about disappointment, but they do.  Like I said,  I am so upset at Gus.  I believe he has lost all confidence in himself and his abilities.  That shakes down to his players and he shows the same attitude.  But he did not cause all the failures this year or last.  

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

3 hours ago, lost said:

That was not a line of reasoning.  That was the exact truth.  If Nix had hit his running back instead of throwing behind him AU probably would have scored and knotted it up.  They had all the momentum in the world.  A WIN put them about 6-7th and in the talk for a NC.. DENY IT, CRY, But it is the truth.  I also understand the florida game, the lsu game we could have won-- but the truth is we were competing for a NC until we lost to Ga

We got embarrASSed by every decent team we played this year with the exception of Oregon and that is truth. Cry, Deny it, but it is truth. Yes they were close games in the end....but we have a head coach who is supposed to be an offensive Guru....and if not for our Defense....we would have been routed in each of the 3 losses we have.  Again....every team is competing for a NC every year...NC hopes and dreams and those dreams stay alive until you lose a game...and then for the big boys like AU then even after a loss and sometimes 2 you can still have hope....but The TRUTH of the matter is ....we should be "competing for a NC" right now with a record of 10-0 or 9-1 at best if our GURU HC fielded a non-putrid Offense....not even good offense...just non putrid. Yes fact...we are competing for a NC every year..until we are not any longer after losing games we shouldn't.

Are you saying Gus should have a participation trophy for being in the picture at some point during the season? That is the mediocrity we are all tired of. We are tired of accepting this. 

I am well aware if Bo makes a better throw we may squeak out a win against UGA....but is this not Gus' team? Players he recruited and signed? Players he is teaching and coaching? Had he managed his roster better maybe Bo wouldn't be in that position to begin with to have to make a 4th down play in a comeback effort down 21-0 and held scoreless for 3 1/2 quarters on our home field. We can play what ifs all day, but fact of the matter is we have a CHAMPIONSHIP DEFENSE....and it has been wasted by poor roster management on his side of the ball and pure stubbornness. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

1 hour ago, lost said:

Both of you mentioned the "young men".  The young men like Derrick Brown? He is still on the team coached by Gus.  Just because Steele is head D, does not mean Gus ia not responsible.  So don't pick out a young man and blame Gus for not "developing" him.  That is ridiculous.  Nix done what Nix did, and Gus didn't do anything to make him inaccurate.  Gatewood had no guarantee of being any better, even if he did start.  I am sick of the  hate and prejudice of an Auburn program and coach, simply.   I saw mistakes by Gus--- I sure did.  But i saw mistakes by players and i can't lay that all on Gus

I can't speak for anybody but myself....but I honestly do not think there is any real hate towards Gus even by those of us that want a new coach. There definitely isn't hate at the AU program. The reason we want change is because we love AU. I will always give Gus credit for the good things he does. I think he is an A class person....and a good young coach. He is still a green HC in all reality. The big problem is he is being paid top 5 money. I sometimes wonder where we would all be had Arky never shown interest in Gus to get JS going and playing us against each other fooling LEATH and PTB to give Gus that insane contract There is no one that wants Gus to succeed more than I. I would love for him to prove me wrong, but since 2016 he has done the opposite for me.I honestly just came off the bus after LSU. I couldn't take it anymore. I was using all the same arguments you are.

[lost 452]

8 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

We got embarrASSed by every decent team we played this year with the exception of Oregon and that is truth. Cry, Deny it, but it is truth. Yes they were close games in the end....but we have a head coach who is supposed to be an offensive Guru....and if not for our Defense....we would have been routed in each of the 3 losses we have.  Again....every team is competing for a NC every year...NC hopes and dreams and those dreams stay alive until you lose a game...and then for the big boys like AU then even after a loss and sometimes 2 you can still have hope....but The TRUTH of the matter is ....we should be "competing for a NC" right now with a record of 10-0 or 9-1 at best if our GURU HC fielded a non-putrid Offense....not even good offense...just non putrid. Yes fact...we are competing for a NC every year..until we are not any longer after losing games we shouldn't.

Are you saying Gus should have a participation trophy for being in the picture at some point during the season? That is the mediocrity we are all tired of. We are tired of accepting this. 

I am well aware if Bo makes a better throw we may squeak out a win against UGA....but is this not Gus' team? Players he recruited and signed? Players he is teaching and coaching? Had he managed his roster better maybe Bo wouldn't be in that position to begin with to have to make a 4th down play in a comeback effort down 21-0 and held scoreless for 3 1/2 quarters on our home field. We can play what ifs all day, but fact of the matter is we have a CHAMPIONSHIP DEFENSE....and it has been wasted by poor roster management on his side of the ball and pure stubbornness. 

lol 😂  wow

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

2 minutes ago, lost said:

lol 😂  wow

Flip that upside down and it says lol 😭 mom

LOL sorry bud sometimes I am a victim to my own sense of humor. I am not sure what part you are wowing about. It is truly embarrassing to watch our offense against teams with a pulse. @bigbird I believe posted some eye opening stats a few weeks back about what Auburn's record would be if we could average 1 TD per quarter of play under CGM.....I will try to find and bump it because it was crazy. That is with our OFF Guru coach who refuses to recruit OL, develop quality depth at the QB spot, and be adaptive with his offense when something doesn't work. 

[lost 452]

Phillip MARSHALL says Gus is staying barring a blowout loss to Bama and even then still probably. Buyout too big of a hurdle

[johnnyAU 3,634]

Is lost a Malzahn family member or something?

Gus has had an elite defense for 2 seasons. Something he's always wanted. The fans have been waiting for it for years too. Last season he also had an NFL caliber QB and WR.

What has he done with it?

He sure beat the pants of Purdue. I'll tell you that. Otherwise, not much of anything.

In fact, I think in his 7th year as HC, we have one of the worst offenses since 2012. Gus has no clue what this team's identity is on that side of the ball. He couldn't run Bo Nix as much as he should have against one of his biggest rivals in a huge game last weekend. Why? Because he couldn't afford for him to get injured. Why? Because 2 of his very serviceable backup QB's left the team due to horrendous mismanagement of the situation...by the OC/HC!!!!!

It's not the players. 

[roe4christ 942]

3 hours ago, lost said:

The reality of the situation is whiny Auburn fans who want instant gratification.  One more time.  How many NC'S have we got that we claim.  2.   How many have we played for since Gus was either Coordinator or Coach--  2.   How many undefeated seasons have we had since 2000?  2.  Gus is responsible for one, and almost two.   All I am saying is IF he wins 10 this year , you take your time and find the right man and urge him to his own time to leave in the next 2 years

Unfortunately a 10 win season may be a stretch even with Samford, Alabama with a back up qb, and a bowl game considering our offensive deficiencies.  Sad, but true.  If he did get 10 wins, I would be for keeping him one more year only if there were major changes to the offense in the off season.  Don't think I could stomach another year with what I have seen on the field the past several seasons.  Would likely have to take a season off from watching Auburn football if that were the case.

[roe4christ 942]

15 minutes ago, lost said:

Phillip MARSHALL says Gus is staying barring a blowout loss to Bama and even then still probably. Buyout too big of a hurdle

Lord help us all.

[DAG 33,997]

16 minutes ago, lost said:

Phillip MARSHALL says Gus is staying barring a blowout loss to Bama and even then still probably. Buyout too big of a hurdle

Where are you guys getting this info from ?! 

[bigbird 60,571]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

Where are you guys getting this info from ?! 

Any of his articles written in November '15, '16, '18, '19

[AU64 10,122]

4 minutes ago, roe4christ said:

Alabama with a back up qb,

Interesting that most national media think bama with the back up (who has a pretty good resume" ) is still marginal for the playoffs and worthy of #5 ranking.    JMO but lots of AU fans are under-selling what bama is capable of and maybe looking to downplay what a win would mean?    bama is still bama with a dozen or more 5* players scattered across their roster following five or six years as either #1 or #2 in recruiting.

If / when AU beats bama it will be a damn good win, not something the team backed into....and will probably keep bama out of the play-offs ....where if they beat AU, they are almost certain to be.    

JMO again...but the SEC championship game which is likely to be Ga and LSU,  will be the first elimination game for the Playoffs....winner and bama will go to the Playoff if bama wins at AU. 

[johnnyAU 3,634]

3 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Interesting that most national media think bama with the back up (who has a pretty good resume" ) is still marginal for the playoffs and worthy of #5 ranking.    JMO but lots of AU fans are under-selling what bama is capable of and maybe looking to downplay what a win would mean?    bama is still bama with a dozen or more 5* players scattered across their roster following five or six years as either #1 or #2 in recruiting.

If / when AU beats bama it will be a damn good win, not something the team backed into....and will probably keep bama out of the play-offs ....where if they beat AU, they are almost certain to be.    

JMO again...but the SEC championship game which is likely to be Ga and LSU,  will be the first elimination game for the Playoffs....winner and bama will go to the Playoff if bama wins at AU. 

What would your opinion be if Auburn's D held Bama and all those 5* players to 21 pts or less and Auburn's O mustered 14 pts or less to a team that LSU just dropped 46 pts on and realistically could have scored 50+?

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

4 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Interesting that most national media think bama with the back up (who has a pretty good resume" ) is still marginal for the playoffs and worthy of #5 ranking.    JMO but lots of AU fans are under-selling what bama is capable of and maybe looking to downplay what a win would mean?    bama is still bama with a dozen or more 5* players scattered across their roster following five or six years as either #1 or #2 in recruiting.

If / when AU beats bama it will be a damn good win, not something the team backed into....and will probably keep bama out of the play-offs ....where if they beat AU, they are almost certain to be.    

JMO again...but the SEC championship game which is likely to be Ga and LSU,  will be the first elimination game for the Playoffs....winner and bama will go to the Playoff if bama wins at AU. 

I agree on all fronts of this post. I have no inclination of this game being an AU win unless we play our best game. The thing that makes Bama's Offense so good in my opinion is more about the people catching #13s passes. They got speed and dynamic players at every spot. It will be a challenge on our Defense, and on Offense...well we all know that story. I would love for AU to knock Bama out of playoff contention.. That would be the only thing this season to celebrate other than watching the best Defense to hit the plains in recent memory and one of the very best DLineman to ever play in AU or any college uniform IMPO. War Damn Derrick Brown. Eat you a big MAC against the turds. 

[Scottie 124]

1 hour ago, lost said:

No my comments are still respectful to an Auburn coach.  Y’all seem to have no problem maligning a team.  Somehow you believe that your comments are just about Gus. 

"Red herring" fallacy. The comments in this thread are literally about Gus and not players. 

1 hour ago, lost said:

You don’t know nothing about disappointment, but they do.  

Ad hominem fallacy. No one made a comment about players not being disappointed. I sure have felt plenty of loss and disappointment over the last seven years, but this isn't about me or what I have been through. 

1 hour ago, lost said:

 But he did not cause all the failures this year or last.  

I would say this is a bit begging the question because no one is saying he is to blame for all of the failures. What is being said is that there are key patterns that continue to replay every year that I pointed out in my last post. Things that he continues to not learn from every year. I was willing to give him another chance this year, but I was let down by seeing the same patterns play out yet again. He ran the Whitlow in to the ground without switching up backs. He promised Gatewood a roll in the offense, but never truly delivered. Receiver progression and play adaptation has not improved. I would love if Malzhan came out and proved everyone wrong. This was his year to do it. Instead, he repeated the same thing he has the last couple of years.

 

Back to the topic at hand:

14 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Interesting that most national media think bama with the back up (who has a pretty good resume" ) is still marginal for the playoffs and worthy of #5 ranking.    JMO but lots of AU fans are under-selling what bama is capable of and maybe looking to downplay what a win would mean?    bama is still bama with a dozen or more 5* players scattered across their roster following five or six years as either #1 or #2 in recruiting.

If / when AU beats bama it will be a damn good win, not something the team backed into....and will probably keep bama out of the play-offs ....where if they beat AU, they are almost certain to be.    

JMO again...but the SEC championship game which is likely to be Ga and LSU,  will be the first elimination game for the Playoffs....winner and bama will go to the Playoff if bama wins at AU. 

Very well said.

[gr82be 14,440]

34 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

Is lost a Malzahn family member or something?

Malzahn and lost get together 4-5 times each year, usually the first time is for the LSU game.