The Courts and Dark Money (ACB nomination)

[homersapien 11,388]

On 10/14/2020 at 9:52 AM, SaltyTiger said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/10/10/biden-says-voters-dont-deserve-to-know-stance-on-court-packing/#356cf6f57aac

TOPLINE

 

Former Vice President Joe Biden said Friday during an interview with KTNV, a local ABC affiliate in Las Vegas, that voters “don’t deserve” to know his stance on expanding the Supreme Court, 

 

You - or whomever you are taking your "gotcha talking point" from - cherry picked Biden's response out of context.  It was not as bad as you would like to portray it.  It was a spontaneous response made in response to a reporter badgering him.  Being the abject hypocrites they are, I am sure Republicans will try to capitalize on it.

I will grant you he is evading a direct answer for political reasons, which is what politicians do.  Otherwise, he has made his general position on the issue plain - he is not a fan of "packing" the court.

Now do the voters "deserve" to hear a conclusive position when he hasn't yet arrived at one?  I'd say no.  Voters don't "deserve" to hear what doesn't yet exist any more than they "deserve" to hear a lie.

But if you really want to focus on the subject of what voters "deserve" to know, let's start with who Trump owes money to.

 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

Voters don't "deserve" to hear what doesn't yet exist

Seemed that you guys were hell-bent on a "peaceful transition of power" answer from Trump.  

[homersapien 11,388]

43 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Seemed that you guys were hell-bent on a "peaceful transition of power" answer from Trump.  

I wasn't.  I never expected Trump to leave "peacefully".  That's a natural  part of his narcissistic nature.

Otherwise, I'm not sure there's much equivalence.  One is a mere policy position, the other is a foundation of our democratic system, which Trump is apparently inclined to challenge by default.

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

On 10/15/2020 at 2:44 PM, homersapien said:

 

You - or whomever you are taking your "gotcha talking point" from - cherry picked Biden's response out of context.  It was not as bad as you would like to portray it.  It was a spontaneous response made in response to a reporter badgering him.  Being the abject hypocrites they are, I am sure Republicans will try to capitalize on it.

I will grant you he is evading a direct answer for political reasons, which is what politicians do.  Otherwise, he has made his general position on the issue plain - he is not a fan of "packing" the court.

Now do the voters "deserve" to hear a conclusive position when he hasn't yet arrived at one?  I'd say no.  Voters don't "deserve" to hear what doesn't yet exist any more than they "deserve" to hear a lie.

But if you really want to focus on the subject of what voters "deserve" to know, let's start with who Trump owes money to.

 

I can believe that it was "cherry picked". Seems to be an obvious tactic by both sides.

On another subject I agree with you on "anonymous" money.

On 10/15/2020 at 8:22 PM, homersapien said:

I wasn't.  I never expected Trump to leave "peacefully".  That's a natural  part of his narcissistic nature.

Otherwise, I'm not sure there's much equivalence.  One is a mere policy position, the other is a foundation of our democratic system, which Trump is apparently inclined to challenge by default.

 I understand that.

Should he win I do not expect a peaceful continuance.

[jj3jordan 2,056]

It's not cherry picking if it's just what he said when asked the question. Asked and answered. Fruits aside he won't say because he doesn't want to lose supporters who might not want to change the current court setup.  

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

8 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

It's not cherry picking if it's just what he said when asked the question. Asked and answered. Fruits aside he won't say because he doesn't want to lose supporters who might not want to change the current court setup.  

I can believe you more

[homersapien 11,388]

On 10/17/2020 at 11:09 AM, SaltyTiger said:

I can believe that it was "cherry picked". Seems to be an obvious tactic by both sides.

On another subject I agree with you on "anonymous" money.

 I understand that.

Should he win I do not expect a peaceful continuance.

If he wins legally and openly (i.e.: without efforts to steal it) neither do I.  It will simply be a re-run of 2016, complete with Trumps unfounded lies and accusations. 

But Trump has now preemptively tried to cast doubt on the outcome, literally claiming the only way he can lose is if the election is "rigged".   At the same time, he has cultivated support from that sort of armed "militias" that are most likely to incite or engage in violence (aka terrorism), as the recent events concerning kidnapping/murdering a Democratic governor.

That's a direct prescription for fomenting violence.  You would never see such a thing from Biden.

 

[homersapien 11,388]

On 10/17/2020 at 11:09 AM, SaltyTiger said:

I can believe that it was "cherry picked". Seems to be an obvious tactic by both sides.

 

Actually, in Trump's case there's no need to cherry pick his statements in efforts to confuse people about his intent.  Hell, he doubles down on them.  His "dog whistles" aren't silent at all.

 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

6 hours ago, homersapien said:

But Trump has now preemptively tried to cast doubt on the outcome, literally claiming the only way he can lose is if the election is "rigged".   At the same time, he has cultivated support from that sort of armed "militias" that are most likely to incite or engage in violence (aka terrorism), as the recent events concerning kidnapping/murdering a Democratic governor.

Trump can claim rigged all his heart desires. Something you have failed to realize and obviously continue to not accept is that the vast majority of Trump supporters are not gun toting, illiterate, stumbling idiots.

Unfortunately we do have 'militias"/ extremist from all spectrums. I choose to believe they are very small percentage of Americans and that most Americans are still good and decent people.

I find your above statement absurd Brother Homer.

[homersapien 11,388]

13 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Trump can claim rigged all his heart desires. Something you have failed to realize and obviously continue to not accept is that the vast majority of Trump supporters are not gun toting, illiterate, stumbling idiots.

Unfortunately we do have 'militias"/ extremist from all spectrums. I choose to believe they are very small percentage of Americans and that most Americans are still good and decent people.

I find your above statement absurd Brother Homer.

My mother and sister are Trump supporters and they aren't gun toting, illiterate, stumbling idiots.  They won't be supporting violence regardless.

But as you (probably?) realize, what I am talking about are these sort of Trump supporters.  And Trump welcomes them with open arms.  And - like antifa - it doesn't take many of them to create violence.

And you know damn well that everything in my post is true.  There's nothing "absurd" in it, at least if you are willing to admit the truth.

So, your response is very disingenuous and irrelevant brother Salty.

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

My mother and sister are Trump supporters and they aren't gun toting, illiterate, stumbling idiots.  They won't be supporting violence regardless.

But as you (probably?) realize, what I am talking about are these sort of Trump supporters.  And Trump welcomes them with open arms.  And - like antifa - it doesn't take many of them to create violence.

And you know damn well that everything in my post is true.  There's nothing "absurd" in it, at least if you are willing to admit the truth.

So, your response is very disingenuous and irrelevant brother Salty.

I do not know everything in your post is true. I do not believe Trump welcomes extremist with open arms. 

"like antifa".....so you are agreeing with the Trump administration in antifa being a violent terrorist organization rather than a ideology.  

[homersapien 11,388]

15 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

I do not know everything in your post is true. I do not believe Trump welcomes extremist with open arms. 

"like antifa".....so you are agreeing with the Trump administration in antifa being a violent terrorist organization rather than a ideology.  

1) Other than the time and effort it takes to get him to "condemn" white nationalists there is "stand down and stand by". (And lets not forget the comment on a "second amendment solution" to Hillary Clinton along with his disingenuous response about QAnon.  Hasn't had much to say about the terrorist plot against a Democratic governor either.)

If you really don't believe Trump welcomes the support of extremists with open arms, you either are a cultist or you have your head up your ass.

2) I think antifa is a violent group.  Not sure how organized they are if that counts toward being labeled a terrorist organizations, so I'll go with the FBI and CIA's assessment on it (not Trump's):

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-race-and-ethnicity-archive-bdd3b6078e9efadcfcd0be4b65f2362e

FBI director says antifa is an ideology, not an organization

And most if not all terrorists or violent organizations are motivated by some sort of ideology.

 

But what does antifa have to do with Trump gladly accepting support from terrorist organizations who support him? 

 

[homersapien 11,388]

Trump invites right-wing extremists to White House 'social media summit'

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/10/tech/white-house-social-media-summit/index.html

 

Trump praises QAnon conspiracists, appreciates support

https://apnews.com/article/535e145ee67dd757660157be39d05d3f

 

Touting conspiracy theories, Trump welcomes fringe views into the political mainstream

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/touting-conspiracy-theories-trump-welcomes-fringe-views-into-the-political-mainstream/2020/08/20/1d044a6e-e2f7-11ea-8181-606e603bb1c4_story.html

 

 

How Trump Helped Turn a Christian Extremist Into a Alleged Domestic Terrorist

https://theintercept.com/2019/03/30/domestic-terrorism-donald-trump/

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

18 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Something you have failed to realize and obviously continue to not accept is that the vast majority of Trump supporters are not gun toting, illiterate, stumbling idiots.

 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

23 hours ago, homersapien said:

 

If you really don't believe Trump welcomes the support of extremists with open arms, you either are a cultist or you have your head up your ass.

Trump does not welcome extremist. The question regarding that is redundant and we all understand the reasoning for the question.

Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

Trump, Aug. 15, 2017: I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally.

Nor was that the last time Trump condemned white supremacy by name.

[TexasTiger 12,949]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

Trump does not welcome extremist. The question regarding that is redundant and we all understand the reasoning for the question.

Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

Trump, Aug. 15, 2017: I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally.

Nor was that the last time Trump condemned white supremacy by name.

Yes. He had on occasion grudgingly read the script written for him after being told his unscripted, but sincerely held, beliefs needed some clean up.

[McLoofus 35,182]

13 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Yes. He had on occasion grudgingly read the script written for him after being told his unscripted, but sincerely held, beliefs needed some clean up.

And that's exactly what those who are standing by tell themselves. "He said what he had to say, but we all know what he really means. Safeties off, boys."

[TexasTiger 12,949]

4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

And that's exactly what those who are standing by tell themselves. "He said what he had to say, but we all know what he really means. Safeties off, boys."

Obvious to any honest person who’s paying attention.

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

7 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Yes. He had on occasion grudgingly read the script written for him after being told his unscripted, but sincerely held, beliefs needed some clean up.

You are entitled to an opinion Brother Tex.

[Leftfield 2,610]

9 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Trump does not welcome extremist. The question regarding that is redundant and we all understand the reasoning for the question.

Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

Trump, Aug. 15, 2017: I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally.

Nor was that the last time Trump condemned white supremacy by name.

Salty, the point many of us are trying to make is that Trump doesn't say these things until he's prompted or cornered due to the situation. Even then he doesn't say it unless it's written out for him. The example you gave above came well after the events in Charlottesville, when the story around his original statement had gotten so big that it demanded a response.

I can't sit here and say I know for sure Trump is a bigot, but whether he is or not, he clearly values supporters wherever he can get them, and he has been very reluctant to alienate anyone that backs him. When asked if he supports fringe groups, he won't directly answer the question when put on the spot because he either truly is a bigot or simply doesn't want to risk losing any support. If it's the latter, that shows him to be immoral and a coward, and far from the strong leader he tries to paint himself to be.

If you look at the way Trump has responded to some of these questions about race and extremist groups, I think you can see how his initial responses have been problematic. As leader of a country, there can be no ambiguity about where you stand on these issues. People keep asking him these questions because he routinely falls on his face when answering candidly, and pointing to press releases and prepared statements he has previously made (well after-the-fact) does not erase that.