On The Myth of Liberal University Indoctrination.

[AuburnNTexas 7,154]

On 8/27/2021 at 3:43 PM, homersapien said:

Columbus didn't discover America.  Asians - and possibly Polynesians - did, followed by Lief Ericson and God-knows-who-else.

And while raping and pillaging may not have been his motivating factor, it certainly was part of the agenda for him and most of the people who followed him. White Europeans have a long history of considering indigenous people - especially those of color - as sub-human. 

That's not indoctrination, that's the truth.

Can't deny that but the Mongol's as did the Huns, the Chinese, African empires, etc.  Which ever group was in power throughout the history of the world raped, pillaged, enslaved. It is not a White thing sadly it is a human thing. Look at China and the Uygher's. Look at the genocide Ruwanda against the Tutsi.  The Asians that came to America came in waves and the new wave often wiped out some of the previous waves again sadly human nature. Sadly in the past throughout the whole world slavery existed not just in the US.  The founders of our country had slaves as did African's in Africa, people in the Middle East, the Orient it was the way of the world at that time in history. Those same founders through things like the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution helped lay the groundwork where Slavery was no longer allowed. I realize I am being a little simplistic but I am trying to paint a picture of the world as we to often try to look at the past though a distorted lens where we only see the bad of this country and its founders without putting it into perspective with the world as a whole. 

It is good to be introspective and learn from our past but that does not define who we are now. I have seen huge stride in my almost 70 years in this country I remember white only water fountains, I remember the civil rights marches by the way that often had whites in them in addition to the blacks who were being oppressed. I have seen progress that makes me proud. I also see the other side the less open racism where some communities because of where they are can't get loans to buy homes and build wealth they can pass on to their children. I have seen a burgeoning Black middle class in places like Detroit and Baltimore that was devastated when manufacturing jobs were sent overseas. This hurt the whole middle class but the black community more.

I saw the hurricane a few years ago that hit Houston so hard and I saw White people helping Black People, Black People helping White people, Hispanics helping whites and Blacks and vice versa, another words I saw humanity helping other humans in a time of need. I am a converted Catholic and I work with various groups in the church. One is people helping people. Allen where I live is a fairly well to do community about 40% Minority Asian, Indian (from India), Pakistani, African, African American, Hispanic and Caucasian. We have a food Bank at our Church for the whole community all the church's in Allen donate to it not just Catholic's, we collect used furniture and take it to families in need anybody in need is eligible there are no questions are you Catholic, are you straight or homosexual, what ethnic group are you from.   

I am Caucasian my wife is Hispanic my daughter married into family with an Hispanic surname but whose mother is Caucasian, this is becoming a norm. I have friends where husband is from the Philippines and wife is from Mexico, my next door neighbor is from Nigeria and is a Protestant Pastor. On the block where I live we have families from Oklahoma, Vietnam, Nigeria, Spain, African Americans and we may even have a few native Texans.

My point is we are a melting pot and we are not perfect but we are getting better, our past is not perfect but nobody else's is either. Hopefully all people can learn from the past but we should not be condemned because of something that happened hundreds of years ago. We should only be condemned by our own actions if they are actions that deserve condemnation.

Edited August 28, 2021 by AuburnNTexas

[McLoofus 35,182]

24 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

My point is we are a melting pot and we are not perfect but we are getting better, our past is not perfect but nobody else's is either. Hopefully all people can learn from the past but we should not be condemned because of something that happened hundreds of years ago. We should only be condemned by our own actions if they are actions that deserve condemnation.

True, but we also need to educate on the structural issues that led to barriers to entry that still exist for many people. 

Even Bill Clinton oversaw legislation less than 30 years ago that severely and disproportionately affected black people. 

It's important that people know these things. It's how we keep getting better.

[homersapien 11,393]

16 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

Can't deny that but the Mongol's as did the Huns, the Chinese, African empires, etc.  Which ever group was in power throughout the history of the world raped, pillaged, enslaved. It is not a White thing sadly it is a human thing. Look at China and the Uygher's. Look at the genocide Ruwanda against the Tutsi.  The Asians that came to America came in waves and the new wave often wiped out some of the previous waves again sadly human nature. Sadly in the past throughout the whole world slavery existed not just in the US.  The founders of our country had slaves as did African's in Africa, people in the Middle East, the Orient it was the way of the world at that time in history. Those same founders through things like the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution helped lay the groundwork where Slavery was no longer allowed. I realize I am being a little simplistic but I am trying to paint a picture of the world as we to often try to look at the past though a distorted lens where we only see the bad of this country and its founders without putting it into perspective with the world as a whole. 

It is good to be introspective and learn from our past but that does not define who we are now. I have seen huge stride in my almost 70 years in this country I remember white only water fountains, I remember the civil rights marches by the way that often had whites in them in addition to the blacks who were being oppressed. I have seen progress that makes me proud. I also see the other side the less open racism where some communities because of where they are can't get loans to buy homes and build wealth they can pass on to their children. I have seen a burgeoning Black middle class in places like Detroit and Baltimore that was devastated when manufacturing jobs were sent overseas. This hurt the whole middle class but the black community more.

I saw the hurricane a few years ago that hit Houston so hard and I saw White people helping Black People, Black People helping White people, Hispanics helping whites and Blacks and vice versa, another words I saw humanity helping other humans in a time of need. I am a converted Catholic and I work with various groups in the church. One is people helping people. Allen where I live is a fairly well to do community about 40% Minority Asian, Indian (from India), Pakistani, African, African American, Hispanic and Caucasian. We have a food Bank at our Church for the whole community all the church's in Allen donate to it not just Catholic's, we collect used furniture and take it to families in need anybody in need is eligible there are no questions are you Catholic, are you straight or homosexual, what ethnic group are you from.   

I am Caucasian my wife is Hispanic my daughter married into family with an Hispanic surname but whose mother is Caucasian, this is becoming a norm. I have friends where husband is from the Philippines and wife is from Mexico, my next door neighbor is from Nigeria and is a Protestant Pastor. On the block where I live we have families from Oklahoma, Vietnam, Nigeria, Spain, African Americans and we may even have a few native Texans.

My point is we are a melting pot and we are not perfect but we are getting better, our past is not perfect but nobody else's is either. Hopefully all people can learn from the past but we should not be condemned because of something that happened hundreds of years ago. We should only be condemned by our own actions if they are actions that deserve condemnation.

Not sure what all that was about, but my point is that we need to teach history accurately. 

(And I certainly didn't mean to imply white people were the only people to act in a way that all humans have for thousands of years. But it's certainly true in the context presented.)

Historical truth is never a bad place to start when developing healthy self concept for a person or a country. I have complete faith that historical truth will not negatively impact our perception of  - and hopes for - our country.

And we are not so much a "melting pot" as a mixing pot.  A 'melt' eventually occurred among our white immigrants but we won't be true melting pot until it occurs with all of our citizens regardless of color.  We've made some progress but we still have a ways to go before 'melting pot' is an accurate description.

(And congratulations and thanks for your personal efforts in that progress.)

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by homersapien

[AU9377 4,977]

18 hours ago, bigbird said:

While I hate their rhetoric, I support their right to spew it, just like I support the right to burn the flag as a display of free speech. Neither should be allowed, but to remove it is to remove one of our founding rights.

I support their right to spew it.  I just don't believe that a college campus is the appropriate venue.

[AU9377 4,977]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Not sure what all that was about, but my point is that we need to teach history accurately. 

(And I certainly didn't mean to imply white people were the only people to act in a way that all humans have for thousands of years. But it's certainly true in the context presented.)

Historical truth is never a bad place to start when developing healthy self concept for a person or a country. I have complete faith that historical truth will not negatively impact our perception of  - and hopes for - our country.

And we are not so much a "melting pot" as a mixing pot.  A 'melt' eventually occurred among our white immigrants but we won't be true melting pot until it occurs with all of our citizens regardless of color.  We've made some progress but we still have a ways to go before 'melting pot' is an accurate description.

(And congratulations and thanks for your personal efforts in that progress.)

 

We may never be a true melting pot from the perspective of how you defined it, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing.  The most important thing is that we have a common set of ideals that bind us.  In that respect, it is important that we continue to educate the young on the many many things they should have pride in as Americans.  That national identity is important and is made even more important by the diversity of faiths and ethnic identities.  I do believe that we have much more in common than some would acknowledge and that those are the things that can bind us as a nation.