On The Myth of Liberal University Indoctrination.

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/26/professors-indoctrinating-students-reality-its-other-way-around/

During the first few days of class, my students are silent and nervous. They are college first-years and the class is English Composition. My job is to teach them to communicate effectively through writing. They file in anxiously and choose their seats.

 

The majority are White and have come from suburbs around Pittsburgh, north New Jersey and Philadelphia. Most are away from home for the very first time.

I try to look the part of an English professor in shirt, tie and jacket with jeans. Professional but not too fussy. This is an insecurity on my part. Many of my White colleagues don’t bother with this sartorial performance and teach in T-shirts and shorts. I feel I have to step it up because of the looks of confusion I have received from my White students when they walk into the room and see a Black man standing there in a T-shirt. They look past me toward the door, waiting for the teacher to arrive. Even when I’m in shirt and tie, some still do.

One day, I ask my class whether I am the first Black teacher they’ve ever had. All but one say yes. My mere presence for many is a lesson.

I wouldn’t say that my White students are racist. They’ve simply never had any meaningful interaction with anyone except for other White people. People who live and think in the same ways that their parents do. This leaves them with preconceived notions that are based in ignorance in this ever-changing culture.

I give my students grown-up essays to read. One can’t learn to write well unless one reads. I make sure that I provide readings from authors of varied backgrounds. We dive into and dissect these texts, and these discussions lead to generative and sometimes difficult conversations. Most of my students have been taught that they should treat everyone the same. They have been taught that the “content of their character” portion of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.’s “I Have a Dream” speech is all they need to know, and that America is a strict meritocracy.

But they live in a world in which they can plainly see that dream is not becoming a reality. We often dismiss the young as being blissfully unaware. They are not. They understand what is happening around them.

My Black, Hispanic and Asian students write about their experiences with racism in America. My Jewish students write about their experiences with antisemitism. My Muslim students write about the harassment they’ve faced. Everyone shares their work and listens, and it is my hope that everyone learns.

One day, as we discussed an essay by the gay humorist and author David Sedaris, a student in the back of the class raised his hand. He said that he related to the essay because he and his boyfriend had been through a similar experience. He paused for a long moment before he said “boyfriend.”

This was an announcement. Every student in the class turned to look at him. They turned to him to see whether his announcement had turned him into something new. Something to be feared. They turned to me to see how I would react. When I did not, they let it go. A few days later, another student introduced her girlfriend into the discussion. Announcements such as these don’t happen in high school.

I have heard the complaints of conservatives who believe that American colleges are indoctrinating their children. I don’t understand this. From where I sit, this complaint is only rooted in the fear that their children might acquire some empathy and understanding.

I am amused why many conservatives believe those of us who teach in college hold such sway over their children. They could not be more misinformed. My students regard me just as they regard all old people: as someone they have to deal with until they return to the company of other young people.

For my part, I can barely get them to read the syllabus.

In short, their children aren’t listening to me, they are listening to and seeing the humanity in each other as they take in the world outside the bubble in which they once lived. They are the ones who taught me about they/them pronouns, not the other way around.

Far from being indoctrinated, most are just opening their eyes. Note to parents: When you send your kids away from home, many of their suspicions about your beliefs are confirmed. They become even more curious about the lives of people who are not like themselves despite your efforts to mold them into younger versions of yourselves. They are merely doing what young people have always done.

Next year, I may relax my dress code just a bit. I may occasionally show up to teach in a T-shirt and jeans and forgo the professor costume. Because my students have also taught me this: I don’t have to play dress up to teach.

 

 

 

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

This is what I've always thought and said on the topic of University indoctrination. It's the experiences of working, studying, and living around other people, other cultures, other viewpoints that are turning young people more liberal...not any kind of sinister 'indoctrination' by socialistic, athiest, progressive professors. 

 

I know many would say that the 'indoctrination' part is when teachers pick books, works, poems, assignments, etc that are about gay people or black people or other minorities such as the teacher in this book referenced. That's not indoctrination....that's exposing students to other realities about the world that they live in. Like this author mentions...many of his students lived their entire lives in majority white, presumably conservative areas. They were likely never exposed much to other non-white people, they were likely taught to never talk or think about any kind of relationship that isn't strictly heterosexual. Even if they weren't taught that, their environment was set up to where the white, heterosexual, Christian Conservative is the normal default American, that everyone should look up to and strive to imitate as closely as possible. They are getting the college, outside of their parents influence and they're are finding that there is a much wider variety of viewpoints and experiences than they have ever seen before. 

 

This is why  Conservatives freak out so much about "critical race theory", or whenever a book about gay people or racism is found in a school library or s suggested reading list. It's because they know that the core tenants of their beliefs depend on isolation from other viewpoints and depend on their children not being associated with or learning about the struggles or life experiences that "other people not like them" face in life. 

[homersapien 11,393]

52 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

.....This is why  Conservatives freak out so much about "critical race theory", or whenever a book about gay people or racism is found in a school library or s suggested reading list. It's because they know that the core tenants of their beliefs depend on isolation from other viewpoints and depend on their children not being associated with or learning about the struggles or life experiences that "other people not like them" face in life. 

And they reflexively fear anything and everything that smacks of change or threatens their worldview.

[McLoofus 35,182]

"Reality has a well known liberal bias."- Stephen Colbert

[homersapien 11,393]

9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

"Reality has a well known liberal bias."- Stephen Colbert

I thought that pre-dated Colbert but I can't find a reference that confirms it.

One of my favorites.

Edited August 27, 2021 by homersapien

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, homersapien said:

I thought that pre-dated Colbert but I can't find a reference.

One of my favorites.

Very well might, but he's the only person to whom I've seen it attributed. 

[homersapien 11,393]

"Change is inevitable, growth is optional." - Coach Derek Mason

[AU9377 4,977]

I can relate to this experience.  I am a white male, but I am a white male from the deep South.  My first grade teacher was a strict lady that would use a ruler and spank your hand in front of the class if you stepped out of line.  Think what anyone wants, she is the reason that I was reading well by the end of the first grade.  She is the base upon which I used to excel on standardized tests and the same base that resulted in my eventual graduation from Auburn and later Tulane.  She was less than 5ft tall, one of her legs was longer than the other, which resulted in her wearing prosthetic shoes.....and one more thing.... she was black.  When I got to Tulane, I was surrounded by kids from the Northeast.  Many of them would outwardly profess to be the most progressive people in the world.  They meant well, but hardly any of them had actually been raised around people that were not exactly like themselves.  I have spent semesters at Ivy League schools and in Europe.  It was always the same.  One of my good friends today was a young black guy from Mississippi when we were in law school.  He was one of two black guys in my class. I didn't notice what was going on, but at some point someone asked him why he always asked to be in the same advocacy group as I was in although others had made an effort to get to know him?  I was speechless when he simply said "he doesn't talk to me like I'm special... to him I'm just another guy." 

My point is that, without being exposed to others, the ability to understand them and truly relate to them is very difficult. I was on the other end of the same type thing when I was first exposed to someone that was an Hasidic Jew.  I had never known someone that was Orthodox, much less Hasidic.  I'm a better person today because I did get to know what he believes and finds important.

Edited August 27, 2021 by AU9377

[homersapien 11,393]

https://medium.com/s/story/why-does-reality-have-a-well-known-liberal-bias-9625b0dd28c6

Exploring the ‘Liberal Bias’ of Reality

A short history of the GOP embracing and promoting lies

During the 2006 White House Correspondents’ Association dinner, host and satirist Stephen Colbert said, “We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in ‘reality.’ And reality has a well-known liberal bias.” The tag line was part of Colbert’s ongoing mockery of conservative extremists, his facetious embodiment of a right-wing talking head. We can understand the remark on two levels.

First, it is an in-character assertion that empirical reality is a lot more in line with modern liberal and progressive opinions than conservative leanings. This coincides with what many Republicans are saying today. For example, they attack organizations like Snopes, Media Bias/Fact Check, and Pew Research Center because these initiatives consistently reveal that conservatives believe false information.

Second, Colbert’s statement is an indictment of the willingness of the conservative right—then and now—to embrace and promote claims that are not even remotely true. Here is a brief list of these falsehoods: Barack Obama wasn’t born in the United States. Hillary Clinton was involved in a pedophilia ring in the basement of a pizza parlor that doesn’t have a basement. Climate change is a Chinese hoax. Unemployment rose under Obama. Evolution isn’t real but creationism is. Trickle-down economics works. Robert E. Lee was a patriotic American. A good guy with a gun is necessary to stop a bad guy with a gun. Mass murderers who are people of color are terrorists, while white mass murderers are uniquely stressed individuals.

Right now, conservatives have a reality problem. This is incredibly well-documented. The willingness of the right to eat up obviously fake news from Russia or 4Chan is an area of intensive academic study. The problem is one of the greatest facing a country that wants to continue to improve. How did we get to this point? There are multiple contributing factors—and four major ones.

The Southern Strategy

The Republican Party started to leave reality behind in the 1960s by adopting the Southern Strategy. This was an explicit, intentional appeal to Southern white voters by pandering to racism. Southern racism includes a despicable set of lies in which white people tell each other (and anyone else who will listen) that black slaves were treated well and were better off as slaves and that the treasonous War of Secession was noble. The Southern Strategy tied the party—and, hence, conservatives—to a false narrative of history.

When a large portion of your base has a belief system that is actively hostile to reality, you tend to drift further and further away from the truth.

Once you’ve started down the slippery slope of lies, it becomes easier to tell another. Republicans rode that wedge hard. They portrayed Democrats as abandoning the South when, in fact, the other party simply stopped pandering to racists (mostly).

The Moral Majority

In the 1980s, Ronald Reagan and the Republican Party made another strategic alliance that overlapped with the Southern Strategy. They got into bed with the Moral Majority, a group of Evangelical Protestants and Biblical literalists who made a lot of money peddling versions of Christianity that enriched them. This led to the rise of megachurches and so-called prosperity gospel during this era.

This group overwhelmingly comprises Young Earth creationists. These people disbelieve a massive swath of science because it contradicts their interpretation of many-times translated and interpreted holy texts written thousands of years ago. They deny the incredibly well-supported theory of evolution, which underpins so much of the biological sciences.

When a large portion of your base has a belief system that is actively hostile to reality, you tend to drift further and further away from the truth. There are few checks and balances on the drift.

Murdoch and Fox News

Fast-forward another 15 years. Rupert Murdoch, an Australian-born far-right media mogul decided to set up a propaganda arm of the U.S. conservative right. He realized he could make a great deal of money by telling people not what was true or challenging, but what they wanted to hear. He copied CNN’s format, but shunned the higher journalistic ideals. Since then, Fox News outlets have peddled nonsense in the guise of opinion over and over and over. They selectively cover stories, and they use heavily biased reporting.

Fox and Murdoch represent the last nail in the coffin of the Republican grasp on reality. What started with peddling counterfactual racism and continued with pandering to creationists become a 24/7 denial of multiple forms of reality and projection of conspiracy ideation that speaks to the small-hearted fears of the U.S. right.

Few Consequences

There will always be bigots, although they are a diminishing force in the world. There will always be religious people with varying degrees of connection to observable reality. And there will always be bloviating talking heads shouting nonsense.

But conservatives, both voters and party, believe and assert so much that is disconnected from reality that it’s painful to listen to. These people hold so many incorrect claims to be true that I fear for their personal safety and the safety of those who depend on them. Yet they manage to make a living, get married, garner approval and status in society, buy nice things, and get ahead.

It’s hard to think of a time in history when such a large group has been so privileged for so long in their ability to be completely and absurdly wrong about so many things and yet succeed. They have so much power and influence globally, and they are squandering it because they have no adherence to empirical reality.

This is how the U.S. ended up with a political party and adherents so devoid of connection to reality that they are able to claim that empirical facts are biased, liberal fake news. The president of the United States has become its tweeter-in-chief, and he is so devoid of connection to reality that he has disappeared into his own navel.

The alt-right white supremacists and white nationalists are a symptom. Breitbart’s rise to media success is a symptom. They couldn’t exist if the Republican Party had not chosen to repeatedly divorce itself from reality and pander to the worst aspects of human nature.

It’s deeply unpleasant to watch. There are a handful of encouraging signs. But I’ll be damned if I know how the U.S. will get itself out of this mess.

[AUGunsmith 666]

Back in college for the 1st time in a decade to change careers, there is definite indoctrination of students by professors at the 25k+ state university I'm at. 

To the point of being so woke the office of inclusivity and devirsity openly and actively opposes autism speaks because it is looking for a cure or prevention to autism. 

Its a professor by professor thing though. I have a poli sci professor who is a Austrian enocomics classic liberal. 

[AU9377 4,977]

9 minutes ago, AUGunsmith said:

Back in college for the 1st time in a decade to change careers, there is definite indoctrination of students by professors at the 25k+ state university I'm at. 

To the point of being so woke the office of inclusivity and devirsity openly and actively opposes autism speaks because it is looking for a cure or prevention to autism. 

Its a professor by professor thing though. I have a poli sci professor who is a Austrian enocomics classic liberal. 

Is there an example of indoctrination?  I see time and time again a student suggesting that something is doctrine of some sort, yet what they are complaining about are facts that don't match a narrative.  I'm asking seriously and not trying to argue.  I had a student argue with me claiming that I wasn't discussing all the facts surrounding the last election.  What I wasn't doing was allowing provably incorrect information to be part of the discussion.

Many professors are more open minded.  That has been the nature of academics going back to ancient Greece.  Many think I am very conservative because I seem that way compared to them.  Although, compared to the general public, I am very independent.

Edited August 27, 2021 by AU9377

[AUGunsmith 666]

12 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Is there an example of indoctrination?  I see time and time again a student suggesting that something is doctrine of some sort, yet what they are complaining about are facts that don't match a narrative.  I'm asking seriously and not trying to argue.  I had a student argue with me claiming that I wasn't discussing all the facts surrounding the last election.  What I wasn't doing was allowing provably incorrect information to be part of the discussion.

Many professors are more open minded.  That has been the nature of academics going back to ancient Greece.  Many think I am very conservative because I seem that way compared to them.  Although, compared to the general public, I am very independent.

Not directly at all, no. But when the university office uses this justification as it's official position is pretty damning for the whole everyone is perfect the way they are narrative. 

Im your case, 100% with you. Conjecture and discussion of shady events is all fun until it's proven wrong. 

Counter to the trump election conspiracy is the Michigan kidnap. It's now proven in count that the govt was behind the plot. Questioning in search of truth is the entire point of non hard science. 

 

An example. Students in my specific class are no longer taught Columbus discovered America. He rape pillaged and murdered somewhere already discovered. He was an evil conquer and nothing else. Taught that indians only wanted to be friends with each other and us. Then the next sentence was that indians wanted European guns to "hunt better". 

Bad s*** happened to indians but doesn't change that it was a discovery of a new land to the most advanced civilizations on the planet. 

[homersapien 11,393]

Columbus didn't discover America.  Asians - and possibly Polynesians - did, followed by Lief Ericson and God-knows-who-else.

And while raping and pillaging may not have been his motivating factor, it certainly was part of the agenda for him and most of the people who followed him. White Europeans have a long history of considering indigenous people - especially those of color - as sub-human. 

That's not indoctrination, that's the truth.

Edited August 27, 2021 by homersapien

[AUGunsmith 666]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Columbus didn't discover America.  Asians - and possibly Polynesians - did, followed by Lief Ericson and God-knows-who-else.

And while raping and pillaging may not have been his motivating factor, it certainly was part of the agenda for him and most of the people who followed him. White Europeans have a long history of considering indigenous people - especially those of color - as sub-human. 

That's not indoctrination, that's the truth.

For the parts of the world that mattered to modern civilizations, yes it was a discovery. Not a single person alive in Europe, Asia, Africa, aka the known world knew the Americas existed.  

The argument at best is rediscovery. 

One of the most important discoveries in history. 

Regardless of who found the Americas 1st it would have been the same death to natives. Asians are just as brutal in conquest as colonizing Europeans. With the same disease issues. 

[AU9377 4,977]

2 hours ago, AUGunsmith said:

Not directly at all, no. But when the university office uses this justification as it's official position is pretty damning for the whole everyone is perfect the way they are narrative. 

Im your case, 100% with you. Conjecture and discussion of shady events is all fun until it's proven wrong. 

Counter to the trump election conspiracy is the Michigan kidnap. It's now proven in count that the govt was behind the plot. Questioning in search of truth is the entire point of non hard science. 

 

An example. Students in my specific class are no longer taught Columbus discovered America. He rape pillaged and murdered somewhere already discovered. He was an evil conquer and nothing else. Taught that indians only wanted to be friends with each other and us. Then the next sentence was that indians wanted European guns to "hunt better". 

Bad s*** happened to indians but doesn't change that it was a discovery of a new land to the most advanced civilizations on the planet. 

I put it this way...... To judge the character of men and women who lived in a different world than the one we find ourselves living in today is really a fool's exercise.  Had someone alive today lived then, they would not be judged by 2021's standard for morality.  Native American tribes weren't exactly models of peaceful behavior.  The truth is that European explorers didn't see them as fellow human beings.  The fact that we deplore that way of thinking today doesn't change the fact that it was the accepted narrative at that time.  In 1492, nations competed for territory.  Battles were fought and the strongest usually prevailed.  Whether the British were fighting Spain or the American Cherokee, the same principle applied.  I'm somewhere around 30% Creek Indian.  My grandmother was all of 4 ft 5" and nobody needed a test to see that she was the daughter of American Indians.  She would have gotten a good laugh from someone telling her they were sorry for something.  I can only imagine the shock in her face if someone told her she could no longer tell a child to sit "indian style" and that she should say "criss-cross"......

[PUB78 1,358]

6 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Is there an example of indoctrination?  I see time and time again a student suggesting that something is doctrine of some sort, yet what they are complaining about are facts that don't match a narrative.  I'm asking seriously and not trying to argue.  I had a student argue with me claiming that I wasn't discussing all the facts surrounding the last election.  What I wasn't doing was allowing provably incorrect information to be part of the discussion.

Many professors are more open minded.  That has been the nature of academics going back to ancient Greece.  Many think I am very conservative because I seem that way compared to them.  Although, compared to the general public, I am very independent.

Read the book “The Breakdown of Higher Education “.

[PUB78 1,358]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

And they reflexively fear anything and everything that smacks of change or threatens their worldview.

Wow! You and Coffee are obsessed with race. How about black and Hispanic students? If they haven’t had exposure outside their own culture, then they will have the same fears when their worldview is threatened.

[AU9377 4,977]

1 hour ago, PUB78 said:

Wow! You and Coffee are obsessed with race. How about black and Hispanic students? If they haven’t had exposure outside their own culture, then they will have the same fears when their worldview is threatened.

I'm the last person to be obsessed by race. I also never said anyone had fears of any kind. Inherent in what I discussed above is the fact that there are times that the South gets a bad rap when it comes to  race and education. Many other areas of the country are, in fact, much more segregated than the South today.  That is often due to economics, but the result is the same.

[AU9377 4,977]

2 hours ago, PUB78 said:

Read the book “The Breakdown of Higher Education “.

I'm familiar with the book.  I strongly disagree with the argument that free speech on college campuses means that a university must allow speakers with supremacist views, regardless of which extreme they fall into.  If people think higher education is broken and of little worth, they need to spend some time on a college campus.

[PUB78 1,358]

8 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I'm familiar with the book.  I strongly disagree with the argument that free speech on college campuses means that a university must allow speakers with supremacist views, regardless of which extreme they fall into.  If people think higher education is broken and of little worth, they need to spend some time on a college campus.

I can agree with you partially as most of the emphasis was on schools on the Left and Woke coasts.I teach p/t at a Christian college and serve on an advisory board for one of the graduate programs at Auburn. So far, I haven’t noticed too much of a far leftist view or indoctrination by the professors in the Auburn program.

Both of our children are business grads, one at Troy and one at Auburn. Our Troy graduate noticed much more liberal bias and statements by professors than did our Auburn grad.

[homersapien 11,393]

17 hours ago, AUGunsmith said:

For the parts of the world that mattered to modern civilizations, yes it was a discovery. Not a single person alive in Europe, Asia, Africa, aka the known world knew the Americas existed.  

The argument at best is rediscovery. 

One of the most important discoveries in history. 

Regardless of who found the Americas 1st it would have been the same death to natives. Asians are just as brutal in conquest as colonizing Europeans. With the same disease issues. 

I agree.  But let's not place Columbus is the only significant discoverer.  That's clearly ethnocentric. 

And let's don't downplay the results of the impact of that discovery on the indigenous peoples for the same reason.

[homersapien 11,393]

13 hours ago, PUB78 said:

Wow! You and Coffee are obsessed with race. How about black and Hispanic students? If they haven’t had exposure outside their own culture, then they will have the same fears when their worldview is threatened.

Sorry but I don't see a direct connection between my post and race. 

Perhaps you are the one who is "obsessed" with race?

Edited August 28, 2021 by homersapien

[PUB78 1,358]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Sorry but I don't see a direct connection between my post and race. 

Perhaps you are the one who is "obsessed" with race?

I seldom think about it. I always try and treat everyone with equal respect, even if I am on the opposite political/social pole from them. My parents always taught me “ treat people as you would want to be treated “

Of course, the above does not apply to the Redneck bammer worshippers.

[DKW 86 7,431]

When I taught, I found most of the Professors were ever so slight Left of Center. They were slightly more likely to be in favor of pot legalization. More supportive of Abortion. 

Most were to the right of myself, even back then. The women were to be blunt prudes. The males, were to be blunt, horn dogs chasing as much coed ass as they thought they could get by with. Everyone thought they were smarter than the kids and their colleagues, which just goes with the territory. There was no outlandish Liberalism except from maybe 1-2 Profs. And they were outnumbered 5:1 by the Fundies, at least on my campus. 

At the time, I had just left the Republican Party and was likely not the best judge of Left and Right. The women, were mainly frustrated with their careers and pay. The men were partying enough to be happy with the less than generous pay. I left over pay. I was making more in easier lines of work while my daughter was in school. Unless the pay changed greatly, i would never go back. Loved the kids, liked most of the faculty, had a good relationship with the staff. But the pay was not worth it IMHO. I was only teaching CC tho, I never got anywhere near what I was promised. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by DKW 86

[bigbird 60,571]

17 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I strongly disagree with the argument that free speech on college campuses means that a university must allow speakers with supremacist views, regardless of which extreme they fall into.

While I hate their rhetoric, I support their right to spew it, just like I support the right to burn the flag as a display of free speech. Neither should be allowed, but to remove it is to remove one of our founding rights.