Honest Question: 19-21 Record in SEC Play

[auburnatl1 5,253]

27 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Two games that actually happened and matter in the grand scheme of things.  I don't know why you think that's a point to ponder.  For all coaches, when you evaluate them, you look at their record overall, but you also look at whether they only beat up on sorry teams and lost to all the better teams they played, or could they go toe to toe with the big boys.  I guess I just don't understand the point.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 
 

I think with AU snd HF - it’s all about those 2 games. Had those 2 wins hypothetically been against any other elite team - he’s not here. His accomplishments vs issues math doesn’t work. It’s why every other program could easily pass on him. And we couldn’t.  

[NA Tiger92 8]

I'm ready to get started.  And excited about Auburn football come Spring.  Maybe CHF can lasso a good QB in the portal and some extra decent players as well.  The Program didn't get in this shape overnight, and it won't be fixed overnight, either.

War Eagle!

[TitanTiger 20,542]

9 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

I think with AU snd HF - it’s all about those 2 games. Had those 2 wins hypothetically been against any other elite team - he’s not here. His accomplishments vs issues math doesn’t work. It’s why every other program could easily pass on him. And we couldn’t.  

I mean, sure, it's a feather in his cap for sure.  You can't ignore it nor should you.  But then, we were about to do business with Lane Kiffin and he's batting .000 against Alabama at Ole Miss in 3 seasons.  So it must not be the end all/be all.

[auburnatl1 5,253]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I mean, sure, it's a feather in his cap for sure.  You can't ignore it nor should you.  But then, we were about to do business with Lane Kiffin and he's batting .000 against Alabama at Ole Miss in 3 seasons.  So it must not be the end all/be all.

Again it’s accomplishments vs issues math. Decision modeling 101 And kiffin had much lower known issues (and his accomplishments more recent). My point is those 2 wins - against saban - were absolutely everything to us  and unique to how AU prioritizes. It’s our psyche. 

[mcgufcm 4,107]

47 minutes ago, msza said:

You're right, one violation for him for failing to oversee a program that got hit with 15 Level 1 violations. 

And now that he's showed up to AU an admin on this site is baselessly accusing others including our own former HC Gus of the same poor conduct.

Just to be clear, you're still being a bit misleading. A significant number of those Level 1s occurred under Coach Nutt. That included penalties for two staffers helping a group of players cheat on the ACT and either lying in interviews or refusing to provide information (both of which are independent violations).

In addition, you claim that the NCAA opinion is proof that Freeze couldn't recruit without cheating, but that decision involved a finding of paying ONE player... a guy who didn't sign at Ole Miss. Zero findings that payments were made to Tunsil or Treadwell or Nkemdiche, etc. So if we're just taking what the NCAA says and not making assumptions, it's kinda proof that Freeze did recruit stars without cheating.

[msza 228]

18 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

Just to be clear, you're still being a bit misleading. A significant number of those Level 1s occurred under Coach Nutt. That included penalties for two staffers helping a group of players cheat on the ACT and either lying in interviews or refusing to provide information (both of which are independent violations).

In addition, you claim that the NCAA opinion is proof that Freeze couldn't recruit without cheating, but that decision involved a finding of paying ONE player... a guy who didn't sign at Ole Miss. Zero findings that payments were made to Tunsil or Treadwell or Nkemdiche, etc. So if we're just taking what the NCAA says and not making assumptions, it's kinda proof that Freeze did recruit stars without cheating.

Fair, I don't know exactly how many L1s occured under Nutt v Freeze, but it's widely reported that many were under Freeze.

As for your second point, you may have me mixed up with someone else as I never made the argument Freeze cant recruit without cheating. There is someone on here slinging mud at every coach in the SEC/country during the Freeze OM era, saying they all have violated the same NCAA laws Freeze has. I simply asked for evidence for these claims, which he has declined to provide.

[Barnacle 9,064]

9 hours ago, fasttimes said:

that context is fine and context is needed. don't leave out the fact that he cheated to get the players that won those games. we don't care because "everyone is doing it" but he did it and got caught.

the reason i bring that up is i have no idea if he is the great recruiter folks say he is because he cheated so badly at ole miss he got caught. maybe he is maybe he isn't. we will find out.

He is. 

[cbo 7,979]

4 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

I mean, sure, it's a feather in his cap for sure.  You can't ignore it nor should you.  But then, we were about to do business with Lane Kiffin and he's batting .000 against Alabama at Ole Miss in 3 seasons.  So it must not be the end all/be all.

I agree with your comments in this thread that Ole Miss is a tough place to win and Freeze did well there. That context is important and you are right to point it out. 

You've also mentioned a couple times the fluke play that kept OM from winning the SEC West in 2015. And everyone discusses the 2 wins over Bama. 

So, in fairness, here's a TD play from the 2015 Bama OM game, which OM won by less than a TD:

 

 

[Warnugget 127]

4 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

Again it’s accomplishments vs issues math. Decision modeling 101 And kiffin had much lower known issues (and his accomplishments more recent). My point is those 2 wins - against saban - were absolutely everything to us  and unique to how AU prioritizes. It’s our psyche. 

So show us the math. Let’s see your work. What’s the value on some bad decision DMs and 20 escort service calls? How much does consistently beating good teams add up to? I had honestly forgotten that he beat Bama twice in two years, until some people started insisting that was the main reason I was ok with the hire. 

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

8 hours ago, peashooter said:

It was about 2 games. 

Look you are fixated on Ole Miss...take a look at why they hired him at Ole Miss...he was the coach at Arky State...they were a bottom dweller and he did the following:  2010 OC, 2011 HC

The Red Wolves finished 2010 with a 4–8 record, but their offensive rankings jumped from 95th in total offense and 90th in scoring offense in the NCAA Division I FBS to 43rd and 46th, respectively. The Red Wolves' offense broke nine school records including total plays (856), first downs (262), pass attempts (438), pass completions (266), completion percentage (.607), passing yards (3,057), passing yards per game (254.8), and passing touchdowns (23). The Red Wolves' offense averaged 403.4 yards per game, eclipsing over 300 yards all 12 times it took the field for the first time in the history of the program. A-State posted at least 400 yards of total offense in seven games during the 2010 campaign, the most ever as an NCAA FBS member, all in his first year as offensive coordinator. After the season, Roberts was fired and Freeze was promoted to head coach.^[22]

In 2011, his only season as head coach at Arkansas State, he led the Red Wolves to a 10–2 record and their first Sun Belt Conference title since 2005. The Red Wolves' offense averaged 447.8 ypg (28th nationally, 1st in Sun Belt Conference) including 293.6 ypg passing and 154.2 ypg rushing.^[23] Freeze left Arkansas State before Arkansas State's post-season appearance in the GoDaddy.com Bowl.

 

Turned it around;

Under Nutt:  (Also paying started under him)

2008     Ole Miss     9–4     5–3     2nd (Western)     W Cotton     15     14
2009     Ole Miss     9–4     4–4     3rd (Western)     W Cotton     21     20
2010     Ole Miss     4–8     1–7     6th (Western)             
2011     Ole Miss     0–10     0–8     6th (Western)      

Under Freeze:

43-25 over all adding in the vacated wins...turned them around quickly (here is the vacated wins article https://wreg.com/news/ole-miss-football-forced-to-vacate-33-wins-after-investigation/)

Liberty

Turner Gill had them at 6-6 the year before Freeze. 

2019	Liberty	8–5			W Cure
2020	Liberty	10–1			W Cure
2021	Liberty	8–5			W LendingTree
2022	Liberty	8–4

So you can squabble over two games or look at a bigger picture.  The dude has had success and had it quickly.  You may not like him or be mad about something in his personal life etc...but the dude can flat out coach.

His players like him.  He can recruit. He is more humble than a lot of coaches.  He wants to prove himself and quickly.  He is the type of person to get us going and soon.  We have a shake up coming in the league soon.  If we are not ready for it we will be down with the Vandys of the conference.  But if you cannot see why he was hired...then you aren't looking...oh and he was down to 3rd & 4th string QBs this year and still had a winning season.  

Oh and I do believe that he has had more draft picks in the 1st round than Gus...I have heard him referred as Gus light and that is pretty funny from people who think their offenses are the same...and Who was a HC first?  HMMM...oh and yeah Gus won with his players at Arky State...      

[ThereGoesDavis 179]

On 11/29/2022 at 5:11 AM, Gowebb11 said:

I would encourage you to go look up Saban’s record at Michigan St. or Frank Beamer’s record at VaTech his first few years. Context of the situation a coach inherits is important to consider. 

HF the next Nick Saban confirmed. 

[3rdandLong 4]

On 11/29/2022 at 7:42 AM, Tampa Tiger said:

I've tried to have some honest discussions on a Facebook group full of sunshine pumpers, but everyone just thinks it's a great hire, etc. 

I'm really trying to understand with honest discussion (without discussing his past off the field baggage, call him Coaching Candidate X), why I should be excited about a guy that went 19-21 in the SEC and just one 10th, and two 17th AP finishes?  

I've been asking myself the same question. I am hoping I'm wrong, and I'm trying to stay positive, but I have NEVER understood why Freeze was ever on our radar. Unless that's all we had to choose from.