Dylan Mulvaney

[TitanTiger 20,510]

14 minutes ago, homersapien said:

So you want state legislature to do it?  Or national legislatures.  You want politicians to determine what's appropriate medical and psychiatric care?

I totally disagree.  That sounds like "big brother" government to me.

These are personal issues between medical and psychiatric practitioners and the individual. 

Yes.  They don't have to get super deep into the weeds, but it seems to me things like "don't amputate healthy body parts because someone feels like it" are fairly bright lines to use as guard rails.  And where there's a profit motive there's a clear conflict of interest that makes doctors alone unable to be self policing on it.

 

[TitanTiger 20,510]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Yes, of course I "pick and choose", depending on what we know about the potential harm vs potential benefit in every case.  And it's not just every case, it's every potential case.

Define harm.

 

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

The idea one can come up with a universal law or regulation that will cover the full spectrum of medical and psychiatric issues is naive, "nonsensical", and extremely dangerous to personal liberty IMO.

We're already seeing this in some of the state abortion legislation and we'll see even more in the newer "transgender" legislation.

And I thought limited government was a basic conservative principle. 

Generally speaking, I lean conservative.  But I'm not wedded to it on every issue.  Universal health care and paid family leave aren't considered "conservative" positions, but I'm in favor of them for instance.

 

[homersapien 11,440]

18 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Consistent in affirming people in their self-conception and allowing for any and all medical and psychological treatments that help them fulfill it.  Instead, you cherry pick.  Sex reassignment surgeries and castrations for the hell of it - all good.  Amputating a leg below the knee - no go.  It's a rather squishy and nonsensical approach.

I have never said - or implied - that all sex-reassignment surgeries for "the hell of it" are "all good".

This is the logical equivalent of "begging the question" and it's unfair and dishonest.

If you want to have a "serious discussion" as TT says, don't resort to such tactics.

My points have been that all transition counseling therapy - and some medical therapy are good (appropriate) in some cases. (I suspect the same could be true for eunuchs, but I don't know enough about it to opine. Either way, I didn't bring this up.)

My other point is that all political involvement in these matters is ill-advised.

 

[homersapien 11,440]

26 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Define harm.

Suicide or persistent depression due to the inability to accept ones genitalia or society's definition of what they perceive as their true gender.

Edited May 2, 2023 by homersapien

[TitanTiger 20,510]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I have never said - or implied - that all sex-reassignment surgeries for "the hell of it" are "all good".

I saying "sex reassignment surgeries" and "castrations for the hell of it"  The "for the hell of it" went with castrations.

 

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

This is the logical equivalent of "begging the question" and it's unfair and dishonest.

If you want to have a "serious discussion" as TT says, don't resort to such tactics.

Stop being obtuse. 

 

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

My points have been that all transition counseling therapy - and some medical therapy are good (appropriate) in some cases. (I suspect the same could be true for eunuchs, but I don't know enough about it to opine. Either way, I didn't bring this up.)

My other point is that all political involvement in these matters is ill-advised.

When practitioners will not self-police and/or have a conflict of interest, a third party needs to lay down some limits.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Suicide or persistent depression due to the inability to accept ones genitalia or societies definition of what they perceive as their true gender.

What if someone is suicidal or experiencing persistent depression because they feel they identify as disabled?  Or because they wish to be insanely thin?  Why doesn't their depression and suicidal ideation qualify for affirming care?

[homersapien 11,440]

31 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I saying "sex reassignment surgeries" and "castrations for the hell of it"  The "for the hell of it" went with castrations.

Stop being obtuse.

As if that makes a difference in your begging-the-question-post. 

If you are not going to own up to it - and then call me "obtuse" for pointing it out - you are obviously not interested in serious discussion on this.

You are just looking for confrontation.

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by homersapien

[TitanTiger 20,510]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

As if that makes a difference in your begging-the-question-post. 

If you are not going to own up to it - and then call me "obtuse" for pointing it out - you are obviously not interested in serious discussion on this.

You are just looking for confrontation.

 

Ok. I won’t waste more time expecting serious conversation then. 

[DKW 86 7,440]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

Shut up David.

I spent a lot of time clarifying my post to TT who misinterpreted it.  There was nothing in that clarification that was illogical or irrational.  It's not my fault you cannot discern the difference between making something your business vs. having an opinion on it.

You - on the other hand - are willing to double down on a perceived
"lie" you cannot even produce.

If you can't keep up with my reasoning, just ignore my posts.  Same goes for your lapdogs who approved your post.  Apparently they have a similar problem with nuance, if not logic.

So go F yourself, you lying little hypocrite. 

He didnt misinterpret anything.  No one, not even you can keep up with your reasoning because there is none. You write words, like every other poster here. but funny, ONLY YOUR WORDS ARE CONSISTENTLY MISINTERPRETED BY THE REST OF THE USERS ON THE BOARD. The reasonable see the trend, the fools will say they cant.

[homersapien 11,440]

12 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Ok. I won’t waste more time expecting serious conversation then. 

Oh no... I don't give up that easily.

I don't think we really understand each other's thinking and I think we are talking past each other. (I'll take my share of blame for that.) 

Making statements to implying the other supports this or that.  It comes across to maneuvering each other to an indefensible position instead of exploring it.  

I'll propose a ground rule : First, I promise to answer your questions and you promise to answer mine. 

I would also request that we minimize the questions in a given post - say no more than 2 or 3? - and either list the questions at the end or highlight them in the text.  Numbering them would also be nice.

Finally, I am spending too much time on here and I don't need to waste such good weather.  My outdoor projects are suffering. So I am going to take more frequent long breaks.  Let's treat this like chess game and respond intermittently when we can.

OK?

Assuming you agree, I'd like to go back an unpack this transabled "gambit" you played in which you suggested I was "inconsistent" for not accepting that "transabled" persons are analogous to transexuals seeking surgery.

I didn't respond very well then, but I have thought of a hypothetical that might help to clarify my position. So here's my hypothetical/question:

"A women gets a prophylactic mastectomy because she - along with her mother and sister - carry a gene that is closely associated with a particularly virulent form of breast cancer. Her mother and sister have already died from that cancer."

1) Would you say that woman suffers from "Body Integrity Identity Disorder"?

 

 

[homersapien 11,440]

13 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

He didnt misinterpret anything.  No one, not even you can keep up with your reasoning because there is none. You write words, like every other poster here. but funny, ONLY YOUR WORDS ARE CONSISTENTLY MISINTERPRETED BY THE REST OF THE USERS ON THE BOARD. The reasonable see the trend, the fools will say they cant.

It's not my problem you aren't smart enough to follow nuanced and complex statements.

TT was trying to spin something I did say to something I didn't.   Telling someone it's "not their business" is not the same as telling someone "they can't have an opinion". 

If that's just too, too subtle for you, just think of it as a lie - as you love to do - but shut the **** up.

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,440]

15 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

What if someone is suicidal or experiencing persistent depression because they feel they identify as disabled?  Or because they wish to be insanely thin?  Why doesn't their depression and suicidal ideation qualify for affirming care?

Not aware that ever happens.  I don't know anything about B.I.I.D 

But I do know we have clinical experience of serious depression and suicides with people with gender dysphoria. 

More importantly, none of these problems have anything to do with sexual identity which is a key difference. 

Rather, the problems you describe all qualify as a mental illness or pathology - which (paraphrasing) is defined as a mental condition that has a deleterious effect on one's life or functionality.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

37 minutes ago, homersapien said:

"A women gets a prophylactic mastectomy because she - along with her mother and sister - carry a gene that is closely associated with a particularly virulent form of breast cancer. Her mother and sister have already died from that cancer."

1) Would you say that woman suffers from "Body Integrity Identity Disorder"?

No.  She's doing this for a verifiable and well-documented medical reason.  It's not subjective.  It's not based on her self-proclaimed feelings.  And technically, because of this gene she's inherited, you could say that her breasts are not "healthy."

[TitanTiger 20,510]

11 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Not aware that ever happens.  I don't know anything about B.I.I.D 

But I do know we have clinical experience of serious depression and suicides with people with gender dysphoria. 

More importantly, none of these problems have anything to do with sexual identity which is a key difference. 

Rather, the problems you describe all qualify as a mental illness or pathology - which (paraphrasing) is defined as a mental condition that has a deleterious effect on one's life or functionality.

But that's an avoidance of the question.  I didn't ask if you were aware of such a thing, I asked if being suicidal or experiencing persistent depression should qualify such people for "affirming" care (i.e. - giving them the surgical and/or medicinal treatments they want).

[homersapien 11,440]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

No.  She's doing this for a verifiable and well-documented medical reason.  It's not subjective.  It's not based on her self-proclaimed feelings.  And technically, because of this gene she's inherited, you could say that her breasts are not "healthy."

I thought you would be more consistent.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

Just now, homersapien said:

I thought you would be more consistent.

Explain my inconsistency.

[homersapien 11,440]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

But that's an avoidance of the question.  I didn't ask if you were aware of such a thing, I asked if being suicidal or experiencing persistent depression should qualify such people for "affirming" care (i.e. - giving them the surgical and/or medicinal treatments they want).

I "avoided" the question because it's specious.  There is no evidence that people with B.I.I.D are prone to depression - much less suicide - unless they get a limb removed.  So the premise has no basis in reality

Surgery as an unacceptable option to treat mental illness. It's unethical by definition. 

Furthermore, such a mental illness as B.I.I.D. has nothing to do with alternative sexual identities, which is what the subject is. Gender dysphoria can be seen as part of a natural position on the spectrum of human sexuality.  IMO, the strongest argument for that is the number of transsexuals who live satisfying, productive lives

A mental illness that compels one to amputate a limb has nothing to do with residing on such a natural spectrum of anything.

The rationale for providing affirmative medical care to qualified patients is obvious from a moral/ethical standpoint.  If providing a qualified patient affirmative medical care which "cures" their depression - much less prevents them from committing suicide - and allows them to live productive, satisfying lives, then why not?

I've told you what I think about B.I.I.D - it's a mental illness. 

Do you accept that at least some examples of gender dysphoria - if not all - constitute a normal (natural) position on the spectrum of human sexuality?

 

[homersapien 11,440]

4 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Explain my inconsistency.

Obviously, it was a reference (jab) to you for implying I was inconsistent for not supporting amputation for persons with B.I.I.D.

I think affirmative surgery for a (qualified) transsexual as essentially the same from a moral/ethical standpoint as providing a prophylactic mastectomy to such a woman in my example.

See, our logic is similar.

Edited May 3, 2023 by homersapien

[TitanTiger 20,510]

56 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I "avoided" the question because it's specious.  There is no evidence that people with B.I.I.D are prone to depression - much less suicide - unless they get a limb removed.  So the premise has no basis in reality

This is untrue.

When you don't feel right in your body, depressive symptoms and mood disorders can occur. These coincide with BIID's stressful and emotional toll on your mental health.

People with BIID want to be their "true self," which often comes with a desire for amputation or disability to help them feel "complete" inside. Recent research has started linking this feeling to certain psychiatric and neurological reasons. There are strong similarities between BIID and other identity disorders like transsexualism and gender identity disorder.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/what-is-body-integrity-identity-disorder

 

 

Most people with BIID aren't psychotic and don't have delusions. Moreover, the depression that some people with BIID experience develops after living with BIID. It is likely a consequence, not cause, of the condition.

In a paper titled "Body Integrity Identity Disorder Beyond Amputation: Consent and Liberty," author Amy White claims that the decision for a person with BIID to undergo elective surgery to remove a body part isn't necessarily coerced, incompetent or uninformed; thus after a comprehensive screening process, patients with BIID could be candidates for radical surgery.

White also likens BIID to gender dysphoria and radical surgery in those with BIID to sexual reassignment surgery. Specifically, both people with gender dysphoria and BIID feel trapped in a body that is somehow wrong and desire surgery to correct the problem.

https://www.verywellmind.com/amputating-a-healthy-limb-1123848

I suppose if you insist on avoiding the question, that's your prerogative, but don't try to spin it as anything other than avoidance.

 

 

56 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Surgery as an unacceptable option to treat mental illness. It's unethical by definition. 

Furthermore, such a mental illness as B.I.I.D. has nothing to do with alternative sexual identities, which is what the subject is. Gender dysphoria can be seen as part of a natural position on the spectrum of human sexuality.  IMO, the strongest argument for that is the number of transsexuals who live satisfying, productive lives

And this is also untrue. In addition to the citations above:

BID is a rare, infrequently studied condition in which there is a mismatch between the mental body image and the physical body, characterized by an intense desire for amputation or paralysis of a limb, usually a leg, or to become blind or deaf. The person sometimes has a sense of sexual arousal connected with the desire for loss of a limb, movement, or sense.

https://www.zora.uzh.ch/id/eprint/100466/

 

Body integrity identity disorder (BIID)-a strong desire for amputation or paralysis-is often accompanied by feelings and cognitions of sexual arousal, although this sexual component has been largely neglected in the recent literature.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28711223/

 

And multiple articles on the subject state that amputation does relieve the symptoms and side effects (such as depression) from BIID.

 

56 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Do you accept that at least some examples of gender dysphoria - if not all - constitute a normal (natural) position on the spectrum of human sexuality?

No.  I believe that like people with anorexia nervosa, various body dysmorphia disorders such as BIID and other similar conditions, the person is experiencing a mental health problem.  Whether it's that they look at themselves and believe they are fat when they are a grown adult weighing 85 lbs soaking wet and looking like a skeleton, or they have a strong belief that some part of their body is "foreign" to them or that they identify with some physical handicap, or they believe that they were somehow born into the "wrong" fully functional and healthy male or female body and "feel" like the opposite sex of their biological one - it's an incorrect perception of reality. 

What they need is therapy and support to come to love and accept the person they are and the body they have.  They need to be guided to reality - that they are dangerously thin and need to eat a proper diet and gain some weight.  That their arm or leg or normal physical abilities are proper and correct.  That they are a beautiful male or female human being and that their biological sex is reality, not their feelings - no matter how real or strong they may feel.

[DKW 86 7,440]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

It's not my problem you aren't smart enough to follow nuanced and complex statements.

TT was trying to spin something I did say to something I didn't.   Telling someone it's "not their business" is not the same as telling someone "they can't have an opinion". 

If that's just too, too subtle for you, just think of it as a lie - as you love to do - but shut the **** up.

 

No, this thread is just a testimony to how you operate. I have a nuanced take on many things around here. I have talked about nuanced subjects on this forum ad nauseum. I support Bernie Sanders, supported Doug Jones, M4A, Paying off some education loans, $15/hr Minimum Wage. etc etc etc. But because after 25 years of dealing with Republicans that ended 18 years ago, I am still dismissed etc by 5-6 on this board. Other than Gutfeld I have not watched 5 minutes of Fox News since 2005. I watch GG just for the humor. I don't even post anything from Breaking Points, or any other news I glean daily because it would be 100% Immediately Dismissed by the same 5-6 posters. They don't listen to anyone but themselves, or DNC talking points, much like you. (BTW, I consider you to be the foremost DNC sycophant on the forum, bar none.)

I have multiple nuanced stances. I saw in 1987 that trump was a loser, a liar, a fraud, and a failed businessman. I never once liked the SOB, ever. But now some of us, a growing number btw, can see that the Stele Dossier was just mind-rot bull**** I call it out. Not because I like trump one bit, I do not. But I think anyone that doesn't persistently wear Blue Shaded Glasses can see that the "trump stealing the 2016 election" is just as much BS as "Biden stealing the 2020 election."

I do nuance all the time. What I don't do is patently pretend, with faux intellectual superiority, that I have the same issue with just about every other poster on the board. You post up at best extremely poorly worded crap, at worst outright half-thoughts, and then blame every forum member for misinterpreting your words or is a liar.

It is just you being you, as always. The problem is NEVER you. It is always DKW, to Titan, or Tex, or whomever, but it is NEVER you. The rest of us hand out mea culpas every few weeks, but not you. Everyone else is "misinterpreting your words" to "lying," or whatever. It is always someone else, but NEVER just on you.

It must be so burdensome to be so perfect every single day of your life and have to deal with all of us mere mortals...

Edited May 3, 2023 by DKW 86

[DKW 86 7,440]

3 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

This is untrue.

When you don't feel right in your body, depressive symptoms and mood disorders can occur. These coincide with BIID's stressful and emotional toll on your mental health.

People with BIID want to be their "true self," which often comes with a desire for amputation or disability to help them feel "complete" inside. Recent research has started linking this feeling to certain psychiatric and neurological reasons. There are strong similarities between BIID and other identity disorders like transsexualism and gender identity disorder.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/what-is-body-integrity-identity-disorder

 

 

Most people with BIID aren't psychotic and don't have delusions. Moreover, the depression that some people with BIID experience develops after living with BIID. It is likely a consequence, not cause, of the condition.

In a paper titled "Body Integrity Identity Disorder Beyond Amputation: Consent and Liberty," author Amy White claims that the decision for a person with BIID to undergo elective surgery to remove a body part isn't necessarily coerced, incompetent or uninformed; thus after a comprehensive screening process, patients with BIID could be candidates for radical surgery.

White also likens BIID to gender dysphoria and radical surgery in those with BIID to sexual reassignment surgery. Specifically, both people with gender dysphoria and BIID feel trapped in a body that is somehow wrong and desire surgery to correct the problem.

https://www.verywellmind.com/amputating-a-healthy-limb-1123848

I suppose if you insist on avoiding the question, that's your prerogative, but don't try to spin it as anything other than avoidance.

 

 

And this is also untrue. In addition to the citations above:

BID is a rare, infrequently studied condition in which there is a mismatch between the mental body image and the physical body, characterized by an intense desire for amputation or paralysis of a limb, usually a leg, or to become blind or deaf. The person sometimes has a sense of sexual arousal connected with the desire for loss of a limb, movement, or sense.

https://www.zora.uzh.ch/id/eprint/100466/

 

Body integrity identity disorder (BIID)-a strong desire for amputation or paralysis-is often accompanied by feelings and cognitions of sexual arousal, although this sexual component has been largely neglected in the recent literature.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28711223/

 

And multiple articles on the subject state that amputation does relieve the symptoms and side effects (such as depression) from BIID.

 

No.  I believe that like people with anorexia nervosa, various body dysmorphia disorders such as BIID and other similar conditions, the person is experiencing a mental health problem.  Whether it's that they look at themselves and believe they are fat when they are a grown adult weighing 85 lbs soaking wet and looking like a skeleton, or they have a strong belief that some part of their body is "foreign" to them or that they identify with some physical handicap, or they believe that they were somehow born into the "wrong" fully functional and healthy male or female body and "feel" like the opposite sex of their biological one - it's an incorrect perception of reality. 

What they need is therapy and support to come to love and accept the person they are and the body they have.  They need to be guided to reality - that they are dangerously thin and need to eat a proper diet and gain some weight.  That their arm or leg or normal physical abilities are proper and correct.  That they are a beautiful male or female human being and that their biological sex is reality, not their feelings - no matter how real or strong they may feel.

Titan, great try man, but it's falling on 100% deaf ears.

Edited May 3, 2023 by DKW 86

[homersapien 11,440]

5 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

This is untrue.

When you don't feel right in your body, depressive symptoms and mood disorders can occur. These coincide with BIID's stressful and emotional toll on your mental health.

People with BIID want to be their "true self," which often comes with a desire for amputation or disability to help them feel "complete" inside. Recent research has started linking this feeling to certain psychiatric and neurological reasons. There are strong similarities between BIID and other identity disorders like transsexualism and gender identity disorder.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/what-is-body-integrity-identity-disorder

 

 

Most people with BIID aren't psychotic and don't have delusions. Moreover, the depression that some people with BIID experience develops after living with BIID. It is likely a consequence, not cause, of the condition.

In a paper titled "Body Integrity Identity Disorder Beyond Amputation: Consent and Liberty," author Amy White claims that the decision for a person with BIID to undergo elective surgery to remove a body part isn't necessarily coerced, incompetent or uninformed; thus after a comprehensive screening process, patients with BIID could be candidates for radical surgery.

White also likens BIID to gender dysphoria and radical surgery in those with BIID to sexual reassignment surgery. Specifically, both people with gender dysphoria and BIID feel trapped in a body that is somehow wrong and desire surgery to correct the problem.

https://www.verywellmind.com/amputating-a-healthy-limb-1123848

I suppose if you insist on avoiding the question, that's your prerogative, but don't try to spin it as anything other than avoidance.

 

I am not "avoiding" the subject I am telling you what my (ignorant) opinion of it  is.  It's never interested me and I haven't researched it.  Therefore, I will leave it to those professionals who have studied and have experience with it.

Now, if you are telling me some professionals have equated it's etiology to gender dysphoria in terms of etiology I will accept that - I can even understand the similarity.  (But keep in mind "similar" doesn't mean "same".) 

Also, in the same article: The most challenging part about this condition is that there’s no cure.  To me that pretty much rules out cutting off people's limbs as a consideration.  Bottom line, it's a mental illness - and like many such illnesses - they are shooting in the dark focusing on the brain.  (Incidentally, that reinforces the idea that one's sexual identity resides in the brain instead of dictated by one's genitals.)

The article also states: "However, BIID is such a rare condition that there's not enough research on the condition."   So again no data-based recommendations on treatment, much less amputating limbs.

Staying with the same article, it goes on to state: "In one study, people with BIID couldn’t correctly describe the leg that they wanted gone."  That hardly suggests that affirmative surgery should be considered as a treatment options.

On the other hand - and assuming your intent is to equate B.I.I.D with gender dysphoria for the purpose of evaluating the merit of affirmative medical treatment - I feel there are significant differences:

1. Gender dysphoria is far better understood, even if not perfectly.
2. Gender dysphoria exists on the spectrum of sexual identities which - by definition, puts it in the category of "normal" (even if not common).  The proof of this is the shear number of successful adult transsexuals. It's safe to assume that some of them have probably had affirmative medical care. At least the ones who promote or support it based on personal experience.  Finally, there is no normal "spectrum of identity" of which B.I.I.D is part of. It is clearly a mental illness.
3. Medical affirmation treatment has been identified as being a beneficial treatment to at least some (qualified) patients.  The controversy that started this thread is centered on inappropriately aggressive application of such treatment - applying it to unqualified patients by age or by a lack of prior therapy. The essential problem as see it, is to separate out those patients who are candidates for changing their minds.  But the fact those patients exist does not negate the fact many patients have benefited from medical affirmation.  I am not aware of any reputable scientific sources that would reject it universally or unconditionally.
4. Gender dysphoria - being on the sexual identity spectrum - is concerned with sex characteristics, not amputating one's arms or legs. As a practical matter, one can live without secondary sexual organs without sacrificing the physical function associated with losing other body parts (another indicator of mental illness).  In fact, if the source of depression/anguish resides in ones belief you possess the body parts of the wrong sex, then losing them directly alleviates that.  Such medical treatment helps you assume your "true sexuality".

 

Now let's consider the second article you referenced.

Not sure if there are any points you'd like to make with this article that weren't addressed above.  If you disagree and want to make a specific point on something, please do so.

This article also describes the etiology or B.I.I.D as being similar to gender dysphoria, which like I said, I can appreciate. 

It certainly doesn't indicate any sort of growing popularity with amputation as an appropriate treatment, just the opposite if fact.  For example:

Conversely, in a paper titled "Body Integrity Disorder--Is the Amputation of Healthy Limbs Justified?," author Sabina Müller posits that the cost of radical surgery for BIID is too high, and people who receive it will no longer be able to work and will require lifetime care and rehabilitation. 

Müller also questions whether people with BIID who request radical surgery lack insight into their illness and suggests alternative therapy:

It does suggest that amputation has worked - at least in some cases- by "making the patient" happier.  I suppose I could argue that supports "medical affirmation, but to me - simply as a practical issue - removing ones sexual organs to prevent suicide is an acceptable trade off while amputating one's arm to "feel happier" is not.  There was no mention potential suicide.

Bottom line, I do not accept anything approaching equivalence of B.I.I.D. in any respect other than having a similar etiology.  (Since both unsurprisingly reside in the brain that's not really surprising.

Otherwise, it's like comparing apples and oranges.  Two different conditions.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,440]

On 5/3/2023 at 1:27 PM, DKW 86 said:

No, this thread is just a testimony to how you operate. I have a nuanced take on many things around here. I have talked about nuanced subjects on this forum ad nauseum. I support Bernie Sanders, supported Doug Jones, M4A, Paying off some education loans, $15/hr Minimum Wage. etc etc etc. But because after 25 years of dealing with Republicans that ended 18 years ago, I am still dismissed etc by 5-6 on this board. Other than Gutfeld I have not watched 5 minutes of Fox News since 2005. I watch GG just for the humor. I don't even post anything from Breaking Points, or any other news I glean daily because it would be 100% Immediately Dismissed by the same 5-6 posters. They don't listen to anyone but themselves, or DNC talking points, much like you. (BTW, I consider you to be the foremost DNC sycophant on the forum, bar none.)

I have multiple nuanced stances. I saw in 1987 that trump was a loser, a liar, a fraud, and a failed businessman. I never once liked the SOB, ever. But now some of us, a growing number btw, can see that the Stele Dossier was just mind-rot bull**** I call it out. Not because I like trump one bit, I do not. But I think anyone that doesn't persistently wear Blue Shaded Glasses can see that the "trump stealing the 2016 election" is just as much BS as "Biden stealing the 2020 election."

I do nuance all the time. What I don't do is patently pretend, with faux intellectual superiority, that I have the same issue with just about every other poster on the board. You post up at best extremely poorly worded crap, at worst outright half-thoughts, and then blame every forum member for misinterpreting your words or is a liar.

It is just you being you, as always. The problem is NEVER you. It is always DKW, to Titan, or Tex, or whomever, but it is NEVER you. The rest of us hand out mea culpas every few weeks, but not you. Everyone else is "misinterpreting your words" to "lying," or whatever. It is always someone else, but NEVER just on you.

It must be so burdensome to be so perfect every single day of your life and have to deal with all of us mere mortals...

I think you even missunderstand the meaning of "nuanced".  Most of the things you described are just the opposite. 

You are an idiot.

Edited May 6, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,440]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Titan, great try man, but it's falling on 100% deaf ears.

You remind me of the "Indian squaws" who would rush out after a battle to stick the enemy wounded with sharpened sticks. 

 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

On 5/2/2023 at 3:41 PM, TitanTiger said:

things like "don't amputate healthy body parts because someone feels like it" are fairly bright lines to use as guard rails.

Would this include circumcision?