Dylan Mulvaney

[autigeremt 6,686]

40 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You remind me of the "Indian squaws" who would rush out after a battle to stick the enemy wounded with sharpened sticks. 

 

That would be "native american women".....please refrain from using such language. 

[homersapien 11,440]

5 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

And this is also untrue. In addition to the citations above:

BID is a rare, infrequently studied condition in which there is a mismatch between the mental body image and the physical body, characterized by an intense desire for amputation or paralysis of a limb, usually a leg, or to become blind or deaf. The person sometimes has a sense of sexual arousal connected with the desire for loss of a limb, movement, or sense.

https://www.zora.uzh.ch/id/eprint/100466/

 

Body integrity identity disorder (BIID)-a strong desire for amputation or paralysis-is often accompanied by feelings and cognitions of sexual arousal, although this sexual component has been largely neglected in the recent literature.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28711223/

 

 

You lost me.  What is untrue?   Again, I would like to suggest we keep our posts limited to one or two questions and not create compound ones that need to be quoted multiple times in part to keep straight. 

First I need to admit to something.  I have been using "sexual identity" for transsexuals when the more correct and precise term is "gender identity".  

As google says:   Sexual orientation refers to who you are attracted to (straight, gay, bisexual, queer). Gender identity refers to, well, which gender(s) you identify as (cisgender, transgender, non-binary, male, female).

I am more than a little lazy when it comes to making a distinction between them.  But there is obviously a normal continuum for both which is the most important thing.)

So please disregard sexual identity were I have misused used it and substitute "gender identity" and I apologize for my confusion.

But bottom line, B.I.I.D is obviously not a gender identity, even though it may (often) create a sexual arousal in some people.  That would be a "fetish".   And there are all sorts of weird sexual fetishes that generate arousal.  Many, many of them.

 

[homersapien 11,440]

6 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

And multiple articles on the subject state that amputation does relieve the symptoms and side effects (such as depression) from BIID.

 

Which I acknowledged. 

Like I said, that supports the effectiveness of genital surgery in addressing the depression/risk of suicide risk of transgenders.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

Would this include circumcision? 

I don’t believe any medical professional would call circumcision an “amputation.”  And there are various hygienic and medical (not merely  psychological or tradition based reasons):

• Easier hygiene.
• Decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
• Decreased risk of sexually transmitted infections.
• Prevention of penile problems.
• Decreased risk of penile cancer.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/circumcision/about/pac-20393550

[DKW 86 7,440]

15 hours ago, homersapien said:

You remind me of the "Indian squaws" who would rush out after a battle to stick the enemy wounded with sharpened sticks. 

 

That is the epitome of strange. 

[DKW 86 7,440]

15 hours ago, homersapien said:

I think you even understand the meaning of "nuanced".  Most of the things you described are just the opposite. 

You are an idiot.

SSDD,,,

[DKW 86 7,440]

So did I hear that right? Circumcision is amputation? Wow, I need to slap my momma…. Lmao!

[homersapien 11,440]

6 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

No.  I believe that like people with anorexia nervosa, various body dysmorphia disorders such as BIID and other similar conditions, the person is experiencing a mental health problem.  Whether it's that they look at themselves and believe they are fat when they are a grown adult weighing 85 lbs soaking wet and looking like a skeleton, or they have a strong belief that some part of their body is "foreign" to them or that they identify with some physical handicap, or they believe that they were somehow born into the "wrong" fully functional and healthy male or female body and "feel" like the opposite sex of their biological one - it's an incorrect perception of reality. 

What they need is therapy and support to come to love and accept the person they are and the body they have.  They need to be guided to reality - that they are dangerously thin and need to eat a proper diet and gain some weight.  That their arm or leg or normal physical abilities are proper and correct.  That they are a beautiful male or female human being and that their biological sex is reality, not their feelings - no matter how real or strong they may feel.

I think I have already stated I think B.I.I.D is a mental illness.

Gender dysphoria is certainly real to those who have it.  Otherwise, depression or suicide would not be a danger.

Sexuality and gender mostly reside in the brain - just like everything else does. 

It's complex.  One's genes certainly play a role - and the combination of chromosomes can get more complicated than most people know.  Then come epigenetic effects which aren't really understood.  Bottom line everything ultimately manifests itself in the brain.

One could easily say all that homosexuals need is therapy and support to come to love and accept the gender they are and accept their sexual attraction should exclusively be to the opposite gender.  Sexual orientation conversion therapy (Reparative therapy) used to be a big thing and considered to be appropriate.

We know better now.  We recognize homosexuality in the context of the human experience.  It is a natural point on the sexuality continuum (as well as many animals for that matter.  We have learned as a species and a culture to accept it as natural and non-threatening. (At least most modern progressive cultures.)

I submit gender identity is analogous to sexual orientation.  Both are determined by many complex factors and both are manifested in and by the brain.

Neither represent a threat to others.

I agree that "medical"  therapies need to be responsibly applied only to qualified patients to minimize second thoughts and regrets - what I would call "false dysphoria") are eliminated or minimized. 

Otherwise, it's up to the patients and their parents.  We don't need states interfering.

[TexasTiger 13,006]

14 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I think I have already stated I think B.I.I.D is a mental illness.

Gender dysphoria is certainly real to those who have it.  Otherwise, depression or suicide would not be a danger.

Sexuality and gender mostly reside in the brain - just like everything else does. 

It's complex.  One's genes certainly play a role - and the combination of chromosomes can get more complicated than most people know.  Then come epigenetic effects which aren't really understood.  Bottom line everything ultimately manifests itself in the brain.

One could easily say all that homosexuals need is therapy and support to come to love and accept the gender they are and accept their sexual attraction should exclusively be to the opposite gender.  Sexual orientation conversion therapy (Reparative therapy) used to be a big thing and considered to be appropriate.

We know better now.  We recognize homosexuality in the context of the human experience.  It is a natural point on the sexuality continuum (as well as many animals for that matter.  We have learned as a species and a culture to accept it as natural and non-threatening. (At least most modern progressive cultures.)

I submit gender identity is analogous to sexual orientation.  Both are determined by many complex factors and both are manifested in and by the brain.

Neither represent a threat to others.

I agree that "medical"  therapies need to be responsibly applied only to qualified patients to minimize second thoughts and regrets - what I would call "false dysphoria") are eliminated or minimized. 

Otherwise, it's up to the patients and their parents.  We don't need states interfering.

Please define gender and sexual orientation as you’re using the two terms.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

26 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I think I have already stated I think B.I.I.D is a mental illness.

Gender dysphoria is certainly real to those who have it.  Otherwise, depression or suicide would not be a danger.

So is anorexia and BIID.  Between their ears they are utterly convinced of its reality, but it's not objective reality.  The anorexic is not fat.  The BIID person is not, nor should they be, handicapped or an amputee.  And the person with gender dysphoria is whatever they were born - biologically male or female - not whatever they feel they are.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by TitanTiger
edited for clarity

[icanthearyou 4,463]

5 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

And the person with gender dysphoria is biologically male or female, not whatever they feel they are.

 

[TexasTiger 13,006]

6 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Please define gender and sexual orientation as you’re using the two terms.

@homersapien will you define how you use these terms?

[homersapien 11,440]

On 5/4/2023 at 7:58 AM, DKW 86 said:

That is the epitome of strange. 

Nuanced humor, so I'm not surprised.

[homersapien 11,440]

On 5/4/2023 at 7:13 PM, TexasTiger said:

@homersapien will you define how you use these terms?

"Gender identity is your own, internal, personal sense of being a man or a woman (or as someone outside of that gender binary). Sexual orientation describes a person's enduring physical, romantic, and/or emotional attraction to another person (for example: straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual)."

.... works for me

[homersapien 11,440]

On 5/3/2023 at 4:55 PM, autigeremt said:

That would be "native american women".....please refrain from using such language. 

Why do you think I put it in quotes?

And I thought you guys didn't like political correctness.  It's pretty much the same as "woke", no?

[homersapien 11,440]

On 5/4/2023 at 12:21 PM, TitanTiger said:

So is anorexia and BIID.  Between their ears they are utterly convinced of its reality, but it's not objective reality.  The anorexic is not fat.  The BIID person is not, nor should they be, handicapped or an amputee.  And the person with gender dysphoria is whatever they were born - biologically male or female - not whatever they feel they are.

 

Do you think homosexuality is a mental illness?

[DKW 86 7,440]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Nuanced humor, so I'm not surprised.

WTF does that even mean? Oh, wait. No one cares.

[DKW 86 7,440]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Do you think homosexuality is a mental illness?

Circling the drain yet again. No one said this anywhere on the forum nor on this thread. 

If you were any more predictable you could be sold as an ancient version of AI.

[TexasTiger 13,006]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

"Gender identity is your own, internal, personal sense of being a man or a woman (or as someone outside of that gender binary). Sexual orientation describes a person's enduring physical, romantic, and/or emotional attraction to another person (for example: straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual)."

.... works for me

Thanks. What about those two things do you see as analogous?

[homersapien 11,440]

13 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Thanks. What about those two things do you see as analogous?

Obviously, sexual and gender identity are very closely related - almost the same thing (which is why such a precise definitions is required).

One could argue that homosexuality is more "aberrant" than gender dysphoria socially or behaviorally speaking, yet we have no problem (now) in accepting homosexuals as a legitimate or acceptable expression of sexuality. 

Why not treat gender dysphorics the same way as long as no one is being harmed and it makes them happy?.

Edited May 7, 2023 by homersapien

[TexasTiger 13,006]

19 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Obviously, sexual and gender identity are very closely related - almost the same thing (which is why such a precise definitions is required).

One could argue that homosexuality is more "aberrant" than gender dysphoria socially or behaviorally speaking, yet we have no problem (now) in accepting homosexuals as a legitimate or acceptable expression of sexuality. 

Why not treat gender dysphorics the same way as long as no one is being harmed and it makes them happy?.

How are they almost the same thing? That’s a bit circular. Exactly how are they analogous?

[DKW 86 7,440]

56 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Why not treat gender dysphorics the same way as long as no one is being harmed and it makes them happy?.

So when Trans Females go into ladies' sports and rewrite the record books in 15 minutes, you don't see any harm to CIS-Women, Title IX, and Women's Sports in general? When we eventually get Shaq in the WNBA or a grown-ass man in women's soccer, and they end up putting a CIS-Female into the hospital or killing someone, I bet you and those like you wont listen then either...

Edited May 7, 2023 by DKW 86

[homersapien 11,440]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

How are they almost the same thing? That’s a bit circular. Exactly how are they analogous?

That's self-evident.  Both are concerned with human sexuality. 

They are analogous because they both represent variations or alternatives to the (majority) sexual practices, or sexual being.  These alternatives should be accepted or accommodated in the interest of inclusivity and civility.

[TexasTiger 13,006]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

That's self-evident.  Both are concerned with human sexuality. 

They are analogous because they both represent variations or alternatives to the (majority) sexual practices, or sexual being.  These alternatives should be accepted or accommodated in the interest of inclusivity and civility.

Don’t agree it’s self-evident. Identity and attraction have no obvious link that you’ve articulated or I can see.

Question— are you attracted to a person based on their sex (either opposite sex attraction or same sex attraction) or gender?

[homersapien 11,440]

58 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

So when Trans Females go into ladies' sports and rewrite the record books in 15 minutes, you don't see any harm to CIS-Women, Title IX, and Women's Sports in general? When we eventually get Shaq in the WNBA or a grown-ass man in women's soccer, and they end up putting a CIS-Female into the hospital or killing someone, I bet you and those like you wont listen then either...

As a practical matter, I have no problem with prohibiting such transsexuals from competing in women's sports.

That is a minor issue and petty concern concern typical of someone with a petty, unimaginative mind, such as yours.

Please don't respond to my posts. I am not interested in your "thoughts".