3 losing seasons in a row

[KillenTime 127]

On 12/31/2023 at 2:01 AM, AU9377 said:

Whoever does deserve the blame is up for debate, but blaming Gus is absolutely ridiculous at this point.  That is the one man that never had a losing season and actually won something.  Carry on.

The reason we are where we are is absolutely 100% on Gus Malzahn.  He left Auburn without any players on the offensive side of the ball.  Zero.  You can't play SEC football without an OL.  Gus hired Herb Hand and burnt the program to the ground.  We had 1 QB, 1 RB, no OL and no WRs.   The only reason we stayed above .500 is due to Steele, Garner and McGriff recruiting defensive players.  Harsin didn't have a chance in hell of succeeding with what he was left on offense and no financial support.  Auburn was late to the game on NIL and Harsin was more concerned with the development of his son as was Bobo.  100% on Gus and anyone paying attention could see it coming.  You can't just stop recruiting one side of the ball.  Harbert and Gus.  

[gr82be 14,506]

1 minute ago, KillenTime said:

The reason we are where we are is absolutely 100% on Gus Malzahn.  He left Auburn without any players on the offensive side of the ball.  Zero.  You can't play SEC football without an OL.  Gus hired Herb Hand and burnt the program to the ground.  We had 1 QB, 1 RB, no OL and no WRs.   The only reason we stayed above .500 is due to Steele, Garner and McGriff recruiting defensive players.  Harsin didn't have a chance in hell of succeeding with what he was left on offense and no financial support.  Auburn was late to the game on NIL and Harsin was more concerned with the development of his son as was Bobo.  100% on Gus and anyone paying attention could see it coming.  You can't just stop recruiting one side of the ball.  Harbert and Gus.  

It’s no use, the people who understand this have all tried to convince the ones who refuse to see it. It’s not like we hate Gus but it is what it is. 

[AU9377 5,136]

2 hours ago, KillenTime said:

The reason we are where we are is absolutely 100% on Gus Malzahn.  He left Auburn without any players on the offensive side of the ball.  Zero.  You can't play SEC football without an OL.  Gus hired Herb Hand and burnt the program to the ground.  We had 1 QB, 1 RB, no OL and no WRs.   The only reason we stayed above .500 is due to Steele, Garner and McGriff recruiting defensive players.  Harsin didn't have a chance in hell of succeeding with what he was left on offense and no financial support.  Auburn was late to the game on NIL and Harsin was more concerned with the development of his son as was Bobo.  100% on Gus and anyone paying attention could see it coming.  You can't just stop recruiting one side of the ball.  Harbert and Gus.  

Harsin destroyed the roster we did have.  I'm not claiming that Gus wasn't out of gas.  He was.  I am, as someone that knows a hell of a lot about football, pointing out that it is really easy to point the finger and blame someone that is no longer around.  It is much harder to admit that the entire program has been mismanaged for quite some time.  The single most damning things to the Auburn football program were the cowardly way that Gus was treated by his defensive staff, with the knowledge of many influential boosters, that destroyed recruiting at the end of his tenure, and the hiring of Bryan Harsin, who ran half the roster off and did nothing for two cycles.

I like Huge Freeze a lot, but it is pretty clear that he wrote this team off a while back.  He did a heck of a job on the recruiting trail this year.  That should start showing signs of payoff next year and by year 3 we should see solid results.  The adults left the building long ago when it comes to college football.  The sport won't survive as it is now.  We cannot allow players to be bought and sold at the collegiate level.  We need Federal action to relieve the NCAA of anti trust burdens and the college Presidents need to take the bull by the horns.  Players can be rewarded with substantial stipends, but money has to be restricted when it comes to recruiting.  I would prefer an SEC with student athletes that had to be admitted like every other student than a mockery of the type of system that currently exists.

Edited January 2 by AU9377

[KillenTime 127]

4 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Harsin destroyed the roster we did have.  I'm not claiming that Gus wasn't out of gas.  He was.  I am, as someone that knows a hell of a lot about football, pointing out that it is really easy to point the finger and blame someone that is no longer around.  It is much harder to admit that the entire program has been mismanaged for quite some time.  The single most damning things to the Auburn football program were the cowardly way that Gus was treated by his defensive staff, with the knowledge of many influential boosters, that destroyed recruiting at the end of his tenure, and the hiring of Bryan Harsin, who ran half the roster off and did nothing for two cycles.

The defensive staff was fielding championship defenses.  Gus wasn't holding up his end of the deal.  The influential boosters finally overcame the idiot booster who extended Gus' contract and got rid of Gus.  The only way to improve the team's performance was to fix the "3 and out offense".   The offense was so bad that it had started impacted the ability of great recruiters on the defensive side to continue to recruit.  Throwing the defensive staff out with the dirty water was another huge mistake.  Harsin tried to clean up the bad work ethic that had taken hold under Gus and he tried to clean up the drug users and distributors.  Recruiting was horrible under Harsin, but was just as horrible on the offensive side under Gus.  Gus' tenure was too long with average results.  We signaled to the world that Auburn no longer cared about football by leaving that goofball in place for as long as we did and we are paying for it. 

[AU9377 5,136]

5 minutes ago, KillenTime said:

The defensive staff was fielding championship defenses.  Gus wasn't holding up his end of the deal.  The influential boosters finally overcame the idiot booster who extended Gus' contract and got rid of Gus.  The only way to improve the team's performance was to fix the "3 and out offense".   The offense was so bad that it had started impacted the ability of great recruiters on the defensive side to continue to recruit.  Throwing the defensive staff out with the dirty water was another huge mistake.  Harsin tried to clean up the bad work ethic that had taken hold under Gus and he tried to clean up the drug users and distributors.  Recruiting was horrible under Harsin, but was just as horrible on the offensive side under Gus.  Gus' tenure was too long with average results.  We signaled to the world that Auburn no longer cared about football by leaving that goofball in place for as long as we did and we are paying for it. 

No argument about the problem.  The issue is how to handle a transition.  Any defense of Harsin is just pathetic.  Pure garbage.

[Mims44 1,896]

3 hours ago, KillenTime said:

The reason we are where we are is absolutely 100% on Gus Malzahn.  He left Auburn without any players on the offensive side of the ball.  Zero.  You can't play SEC football without an OL.  Gus hired Herb Hand and burnt the program to the ground.  We had 1 QB, 1 RB, no OL and no WRs.   The only reason we stayed above .500 is due to Steele, Garner and McGriff recruiting defensive players.  Harsin didn't have a chance in hell of succeeding with what he was left on offense and no financial support.  Auburn was late to the game on NIL and Harsin was more concerned with the development of his son as was Bobo.  100% on Gus and anyone paying attention could see it coming.  You can't just stop recruiting one side of the ball.  Harbert and Gus.  

3 hours ago, gr82be said:

It’s no use, the people who understand this have all tried to convince the ones who refuse to see it. It’s not like we hate Gus but it is what it is. 

7th, 12th, 9th, 13th. Those were the last 4.

Yeah those are trash recruiting numbers. Nothing like the .... 8th we are right now. No where close.

Also love that this is the go-to excuse until the threads when people compare Gus record vs trash teams to Freezes. Then allovasudden it's Gus had rosters full of blue chip talent, HF had nothing. So they can't be compared.  

Yeah, the cupboard got very bare after his firing, if you fire a coach that's a player favorite that's gonna happen every time. Even when the firing is deserved. Unless you have insider info where Gus told them all not to play for Harsin you can't lay that blame on him.

 

1 hour ago, KillenTime said:

The defensive staff was fielding championship defenses.  Gus wasn't holding up his end of the deal.  The influential boosters finally overcame the idiot booster who extended Gus' contract and got rid of Gus.  The only way to improve the team's performance was to fix the "3 and out offense".   The offense was so bad that it had started impacted the ability of great recruiters on the defensive side to continue to recruit.  Throwing the defensive staff out with the dirty water was another huge mistake.  Harsin tried to clean up the bad work ethic that had taken hold under Gus and he tried to clean up the drug users and distributors.  Recruiting was horrible under Harsin, but was just as horrible on the offensive side under Gus.  Gus' tenure was too long with average results.  We signaled to the world that Auburn no longer cared about football by leaving that goofball in place for as long as we did and we are paying for it. 

Also a goofball take. Gus wasn't the HC? He gets no kudos for hiring and aligning a legit defensive staff?

When Bama or UGA win a shootout do you count it as a negative on Saban/Kirby cause they were defensive coaches?

 

 

 

 

Auburn will lose a game in 2031 and some of you types will be on here immediately to blame Gus for it.

The guy was an average coach, he was not the worst ever, the death knell of AU football, or Cthulhu, 

[KillenTime 127]

19 hours ago, Mims44 said:

7th, 12th, 9th, 13th. Those were the last 4.

Yeah those are trash recruiting numbers. Nothing like the .... 8th we are right now. No where close.

Also love that this is the go-to excuse until the threads when people compare Gus record vs trash teams to Freezes. Then allovasudden it's Gus had rosters full of blue chip talent, HF had nothing. So they can't be compared.  

Yeah, the cupboard got very bare after his firing, if you fire a coach that's a player favorite that's gonna happen every time. Even when the firing is deserved. Unless you have insider info where Gus told them all not to play for Harsin you can't lay that blame on him.

 

Also a goofball take. Gus wasn't the HC? He gets no kudos for hiring and aligning a legit defensive staff?

When Bama or UGA win a shootout do you count it as a negative on Saban/Kirby cause they were defensive coaches?

 

 

 

 

Auburn will lose a game in 2031 and some of you types will be on here immediately to blame Gus for it.

The guy was an average coach, he was not the worst ever, the death knell of AU football, or Cthulhu, 

Those last 4 years of recruiting were led by the defensive side of the ball.  No OL to speak of and very weak WR classes.  RBs didn't pan out and couldn't recruit but one QB and that is because he was a legacy.  Look it up and break down the stars on each side of the ball.  Mostly 3 star OL and WRs.  Most 4 stars on offensive didn't make it.  McGriff and Garner carried us.  

Not sure what you are talking about comparing Gus' record to Freeze's.  I didn't bring that up and haven't.  Both sucked.

Gus was a player's favorite alright.  No discipline, light work outs and zero accountability.  Drug issues all over the team but mostly on offense.   The defensive side had accountability, discipline and was putting players in the NFL which led to the internal turmoil between the two groups.  The defections were mainly Harsin's decisions.  He had to run off the non-discipline and druggies.

Gus got lucky and rich because Garner decided to come home.  Garner and his wife wanted their daughter to attend Auburn where they both graduated and not Georgia.  Gus had nothing to do with it.  Without Garner the ship would have sunk much faster.  Gus would have lasted 3 or 4 years without the defense.  Gus admitted and said over and over he was totally hands off on the defensive side of the ball.  You can give him credit if you want, but I give him none. 

When either (Kirby or Saban) lose in a shoot out - yes.  Yes I do.  And everyone else would to if they were losing 5 games a year on average because they couldn't stop anyone. 

Gus is the only coach in the history of the program to coach for 7 straight years and not produce a season of 2 losses or less.  And he couldn't produce a 3 loss or less season.  He should have been fired in 2016 yet he was left in the role until he totally destroyed the offensive side of the ball.  He left the program in a state that was as close to starting over as you will ever see on the offensive side of the ball.  Death penalty type roster on offense is what Harsin inherited and now Freeze has.  Defending what Gus did to Auburn football is ....... weak (to keep it clean and somewhat respectful).  

[shabby 1,958]

On 12/30/2023 at 8:04 PM, DAG said:

Gus was the fall guy every year harsin failed, Over and Under how many seasons Harsin will be the fall guy if we don’t achieve expectations under freeze?

Two years. He gets a chance to get his players into the system. 3rd year will be performance time or hot seat time. I expect this team to get better and better under freeze with time. Did anyone have that expectation with Harsin or Malzahn at the end?

[DAG 34,034]

13 minutes ago, shabby said:

Two years. He gets a chance to get his players into the system. 3rd year will be performance time or hot seat time. I expect this team to get better and better under freeze with time. Did anyone have that expectation with Harsin or Malzahn at the end?

Gus had gotten us to a national championship game his first year after one of the worse years in Auburn history. Harsin was fired after two years so I would say his was much harsher than what you are giving freeze. I agree by year 3 , there should be results 

[casatiger 514]

An offensive coach unwilling to adapt his philosophy, coupled with the worst contract extension in the history of Auburn sports, throupled with the worst football coaching hire in the modern history of Auburn and you get what we have at Auburn now.   All can share responsibility for the State of Auburn.  If CHF cannot recruit and coach/manage a staff at the highest of levels then the next coach will have a stocked cupboard hopefully.  

[creed 1,666]

21 hours ago, Mims44 said:

7th, 12th, 9th, 13th. Those were the last 4.

Yeah those are trash recruiting numbers. Nothing like the .... 8th we are right now. No where close.

Also love that this is the go-to excuse until the threads when people compare Gus record vs trash teams to Freezes. Then allovasudden it's Gus had rosters full of blue chip talent, HF had nothing. So they can't be compared.  

Yeah, the cupboard got very bare after his firing, if you fire a coach that's a player favorite that's gonna happen every time. Even when the firing is deserved. Unless you have insider info where Gus told them all not to play for Harsin you can't lay that blame on him.

 

Also a goofball take. Gus wasn't the HC? He gets no kudos for hiring and aligning a legit defensive staff?

When Bama or UGA win a shootout do you count it as a negative on Saban/Kirby cause they were defensive coaches?

 

 

 

 

Auburn will lose a game in 2031 and some of you types will be on here immediately to blame Gus for it.

The guy was an average coach, he was not the worst ever, the death knell of AU football, or Cthulhu, 

Some people like to look at "Stars". I like to look at the real-life-game-day-on-the-field size, quickness, speed and athleticism of players. What I currently see, execpt in a few cases, is our roster is the lacking of those. A lot of people will come back and say "well you need to develop" those things and I do agree in development. But, I don't believe you can develop the basics of speed, quickness and athleticism.

Edited January 3 by creed

[shabby 1,958]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Gus had gotten us to a national championship game his first year after one of the worse years in Auburn history. Harsin was fired after two years so I would say his was much harsher than what you are giving freeze. I agree by year 3 , there should be results 

The 2013 team was a lot more talented.  2012 was about coaching, not talent. 

Edited January 3 by shabby

[DAG 34,034]

1 hour ago, shabby said:

The 2013 team was a lot more talented.  2012 was about coaching, not talent. 

Thats fine but you asked me a question and I answered. I honestly didn’t get the point of you asking the initial question tbh. But I answered nonetheless. 

[AUloggerhead 2,267]

On 12/30/2023 at 3:31 PM, TeamZero77 said:

This is the first time since 1975, 76 and 77 that we've had 3 losing seasons in a row.

This is the first time since Bear Bryant was at Alabama that we've lost 4 years in a row to Alabama. 

Of the 16 SEC teams, only Auburn and Vanderbilt haven't won atleast 8 games in a season since 2019.

We are the only SEC West team to not win atleast 9 games in a season since 2019. 

We've lost 4 or more games in a row for 3 straight years. Hell, we lost 4 games in a row earlier this season and have now lost 3 in a row to end the season.

Besides high school recruiting, what has Hugh Freeze shown you all that says he will bring Auburn out of this funk that our program has been in for years now? For every good win he has in his career, he also has an absolute WTF type stinker of a game and sometimes a few of those in a single season. 

His high school recruiting is great. So was Chizik and Malzahn's. I'm tired of watching us look stupid while Georgia, Alabama and hell, even Ole Miss is getting it right. 

So?  If AU had won just 1 more game each in '23 & '21, plus 2 more in '22, then we wouldn't have 3 losing seasons in a row but we'd have 3 additional meh seasons on top of Malzahn's 6-5 last season in '20.  Bottom line:  there's precious little difference between a "losing" season & a barely losing season.  The Jimmys & Joes CHF is recruiting & bringing to the Plains will absolutely make a difference in the future.  Give it time.  

[Mims44 1,896]

13 minutes ago, AUloggerhead said:

So?  If AU had won just 1 more game each in '23 & '21, plus 2 more in '22, then we wouldn't have 3 losing seasons in a row but we'd have 3 additional meh seasons on top of Malzahn's 6-5 last season in '20.  Bottom line:  there's precious little difference between a "losing" season & a barely losing season.  The Jimmys & Joes CHF is recruiting & bringing to the Plains will absolutely make a difference in the future.  Give it time.  

I ... wanna make sure I understand you here.

So if AU beats NMSU this year and stops Bama from converting a 4th and 30+, your reaction to this years team would be the same? 

Just a 🤷‍♂️ "It's a barely winning season instead of a losing season."

[AU120289 380]

29 minutes ago, AUloggerhead said:

So?  If AU had won just 1 more game each in '23 & '21, plus 2 more in '22, then we wouldn't have 3 losing seasons in a row but we'd have 3 additional meh seasons on top of Malzahn's 6-5 last season in '20.  Bottom line:  there's precious little difference between a "losing" season & a barely losing season.  The Jimmys & Joes CHF is recruiting & bringing to the Plains will absolutely make a difference in the future.  Give it time.  

Hopefully, but that also requires some coaching and development to take place. 

[alexava 6,973]

Sucking for five or six years was not worth dumping a coach who had a chance to win a championship  every 2nd or 3rd year at worst. And yes we suck

[AUloggerhead 2,267]

2 hours ago, Mims44 said:

I ... wanna make sure I understand you here.

So if AU beats NMSU this year and stops Bama from converting a 4th and 30+, your reaction to this years team would be the same? 

Just a 🤷‍♂️ "It's a barely winning season instead of a losing season."

AU has been meh for far too long.  4 more wins in the last 3 years resulting in technically "winning" seasons during that time wouldn't make a difference in the perception of AU still stuck in mediocre mode since Mediocre Malzahn's 6-5 season in 2020.  Unless ... and I don't want to presume this of you ... you're one of those people that think 'Malzahn never had a losing season' really means all that much.  I certainly don't.  AU should have beaten uat this year.  Still can't wrap my brain around the circumstances leading to losing in that fashion.  Can't argue AU winning against NMSU or Maryland -- they flat out whipped AU.   

[Sthrndream 63]

1.  I believe it's difficult to compete in 13 games with half the player talent that we have against the top tier teams we competed against.  We basically had half a team of blue chippers.  If you are a good player, you can' t play the entire game as a one deep lineman or DB, you just get tired, I don't care how much conditioning you have, not to mention avoiding injury.  We didn't have a full team this year and it changed the way we approached games.

2.  The cupboard is bare.  2023-24 Recruiting will make it better for Auburn.  Coach Freeze had to make a decision and went all out in recruiting.  (No A&M comparisons please).  He can coach and he will have his hand in the offense this Fall.

3.  The team/program culture is changing, all were exposed, some received the change favorably, others didn't accept it.  A coach's system takes time (1-3 years) to implement.

4.  There will be some coaching changes in the coming week that isn't public yet, that reinforces the culture change.  This is a total rebuild.

4.  We didn't compete to our potential in at least 4 games this year, resulting in 4 losses.  How do we rectify this?  see 1-4 above.   It's happening and we will be a lot better off this coming year than we were this past year.  I think people don't realize how bad we really were when Potato was shown the door.

WDE!

[Mims44 1,896]

2 hours ago, AUloggerhead said:

AU has been meh for far too long.  4 more wins in the last 3 years resulting in technically "winning" seasons during that time wouldn't make a difference in the perception of AU still stuck in mediocre mode since Mediocre Malzahn's 6-5 season in 2020.  Unless ... and I don't want to presume this of you ... you're one of those people that think 'Malzahn never had a losing season' really means all that much.  I certainly don't.  AU should have beaten uat this year.  Still can't wrap my brain around the circumstances leading to losing in that fashion.  Can't argue AU winning against NMSU or Maryland -- they flat out whipped AU.   

To the bolded part, it is what it is. I'm not part of the camp that forgets that it's a thing. Also not part of the camp that thinks that makes him great. It is funny to me when someone says Gus was a great coach. It is irksome to me when people talk about Gus like he was the worst thing ever to happen to Auburn.

He was unequivocally average.

Auburn historically averages winning seasons, taking all time win % into account for a 12 game season we are a 7 to 8 win per season team. Gus absolutely could toe the line for that minimal standard as he proved over 8 years. But Auburn is not cool with being a "good" team. We want to be a great team. Hence why he was fired shortly after making comments alluding to him believing an 8 win season as being good enough.

 

To the other part of your post, you are saying you would be happier with Freeze's first year had he won vs NMSU and bammer right? Even if it was still just a 'barely winning' season.

I know I would be. Hell, even if we kept the same losses but played competitively against nmsu/maryland I'd feel better about the season.

[AUloggerhead 2,267]

4 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

To the bolded part, it is what it is. I'm not part of the camp that forgets that it's a thing. Also not part of the camp that thinks that makes him great. It is funny to me when someone says Gus was a great coach. It is irksome to me when people talk about Gus like he was the worst thing ever to happen to Auburn.

He was unequivocally average.

Auburn historically averages winning seasons, taking all time win % into account for a 12 game season we are a 7 to 8 win per season team. Gus absolutely could toe the line for that minimal standard as he proved over 8 years. But Auburn is not cool with being a "good" team. We want to be a great team. Hence why he was fired shortly after making comments alluding to him believing an 8 win season as being good enough.

 

To the other part of your post, you are saying you would be happier with Freeze's first year had he won vs NMSU and bammer right? Even if it was still just a 'barely winning' season.

I know I would be. Hell, even if we kept the same losses but played competitively against nmsu/maryland I'd feel better about the season.

Bolded part is spot on.  AU & all true AU fans aspire (& expect) better.  Much better if truth be told.  To the last part of your post, I would not be any "happier" if CHF's won/loss record was 1 win more than it ended up because there's scarcely much of a difference between 6-7 & 7-6.  Both of those records are sailing on the same ship, the USS Mediocrity with 2 lifeboats named Alsoran & Middleofthepack.  The rebuild road to championship level is a long one and it's going to take more time than just one season.  WDE