Dishonest, Duplicit and Deceptive: Senate Border ‘Deal’

[AUFAN78 3,911]

Biden’s defiant refusal to secure U.S. borders has again led to violence against Americans – this time the vicious beating of two NYC police officers by a mob of illegal immigrants, who were later released without bail. It is outrageous that our leaders continue to allow non-citizens to hurt Americans and to steal from our citizens – and anyone who supports the McConnell-Schumer-Lankford so-called border “deal” is supporting exactly this kind of insanity.

Although senators are being pressured to agree to this deal without the opportunity to read, review, or amend its text, a few “bullet points” have been leaked. From these it is clear the deal is not designed to close the border, but to deceptively strengthen Biden’s open border “policies.” The deal would allow 4,000 to 5,000 illegals to cross into the U.S. per day before expulsion measures begin. That’s 150,000 per month and 1.8 million per year! It is shocking that senators would actually propose legislating any number of illegal crossings into the United States. In effect, this deal would codify Biden’s reckless open border policies and compromise a future president’s ability to enforce border security.

False narratives claiming that Republicans won’t support the deal because it gives Biden credit, or that Republicans would rather get political revenge than fix the border, are just that – false and strategically spread by the left’s media elite in order to boost Biden’s miserable approval ratings. Blaming former President Donald Trump for the Republicans’ distaste of the Senate deal, and for Biden’s negligence to secure the border, is nothing but a transparent election stunt.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2024/02/03/dishonest_duplicit_and_deceptive_senate_border_deal_150432.html

[AU9377 4,967]

On 2/4/2024 at 11:17 AM, AUFAN78 said:

Biden’s defiant refusal to secure U.S. borders has again led to violence against Americans – this time the vicious beating of two NYC police officers by a mob of illegal immigrants, who were later released without bail. It is outrageous that our leaders continue to allow non-citizens to hurt Americans and to steal from our citizens – and anyone who supports the McConnell-Schumer-Lankford so-called border “deal” is supporting exactly this kind of insanity.

Although senators are being pressured to agree to this deal without the opportunity to read, review, or amend its text, a few “bullet points” have been leaked. From these it is clear the deal is not designed to close the border, but to deceptively strengthen Biden’s open border “policies.” The deal would allow 4,000 to 5,000 illegals to cross into the U.S. per day before expulsion measures begin. That’s 150,000 per month and 1.8 million per year! It is shocking that senators would actually propose legislating any number of illegal crossings into the United States. In effect, this deal would codify Biden’s reckless open border policies and compromise a future president’s ability to enforce border security.

False narratives claiming that Republicans won’t support the deal because it gives Biden credit, or that Republicans would rather get political revenge than fix the border, are just that – false and strategically spread by the left’s media elite in order to boost Biden’s miserable approval ratings. Blaming former President Donald Trump for the Republicans’ distaste of the Senate deal, and for Biden’s negligence to secure the border, is nothing but a transparent election stunt.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2024/02/03/dishonest_duplicit_and_deceptive_senate_border_deal_150432.html

The numbers you point out are people applying for asylum.  Therefore, asylum laws need to be changed in order to dissuade the thousands that are crossing, turning themselves in immediately to border control and applying for asylum, which is currently a right that they have.

I agree that Biden should be doing more.  However, I won't pretend that Trump and House Republicans actually want to solve the problem.  They don't.  They clearly want the problem to persist and worsen in order to score political points for their cult leader.

[jj3jordan 2,056]

10 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The numbers you point out are people applying for asylum.  Therefore, asylum laws need to be changed in order to dissuade the thousands that are crossing, turning themselves in immediately to border control and applying for asylum, which is currently a right that they have.

I agree that Biden should be doing more.  However, I won't pretend that Trump and House Republicans actually want to solve the problem.  They don't.  They clearly want the problem to persist and worsen in order to score political points for their cult leader.

No, they want to solve the problem. Consistent from the start; close the border, deport the illegals, process immigrants iaw federal law (the one Biden refuses to enforce).  You score more points by DOING, not just promising.

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

17 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The numbers you point out are people applying for asylum.  Therefore, asylum laws need to be changed in order to dissuade the thousands that are crossing, turning themselves in immediately to border control and applying for asylum, which is currently a right that they have.

The law doesn’t need to be changed; they just need to be interpreted differently.  The only reason Biden wants to *change* the immigration law is to make his dream of open borders a reality.  He is breaking the law now, so if he dupes the Republicans into *changing* the law he makes 5000 immigrants crossing the border the norm.  He is not looking at this as a normal President should in solving a problem, he is enabling illegal immigration as the plan.

[CoffeeTiger 5,133]

23 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

No, they want to solve the problem. Consistent from the start; close the border, deport the illegals, process immigrants iaw federal law (the one Biden refuses to enforce).  You score more points by DOING, not just promising.

They want to "solve" the problem on their own terms in their own way without any compromise or mutual agreements with Dems. 

Unfortunately, that's not how our government works. So while Republicans may say "Yes, we WANT to solve the problem", by them meaning " but only if we get EVERYTHING we want with no compromise" , R's are in effect only promising and not doing anything. 

 

Republicans would rather this so called crisis continue as it is today than try to stop it with a bi-partisan bill.  

[jj3jordan 2,056]

33 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

They want to "solve" the problem on their own terms in their own way without any compromise or mutual agreements with Dems. 

Unfortunately, that's not how our government works. So while Republicans may say "Yes, we WANT to solve the problem", by them meaning " but only if we get EVERYTHING we want with no compromise" , R's are in effect only promising and not doing anything. 

 

Republicans would rather this so called crisis continue as it is today than try to stop it with a bi-partisan bill.  

No. We want the problem solved in the way of current federal law. There is no getting what we want. We don’t want the crisis to continue. It will do that on its own as Biden continues to ignore federal law and flood the country with illegal immigrants who bring zero to the table as far as helping our country, assimilating, or becoming Americans. He thinks of them as potential lifetime democrat votes. He also bets that he and his elitist party members will never be affected by the crime, poverty, and violence which are the result of this action.  Thus the walls around their personal mansions. Walls do work. That’s why democrats build them around their compounds. All we want is for current federal law to be enforced as written. Once that is done and the border is secure, legislation can be authored to address issues that may divide our party members.

[AU9377 4,967]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

No, they want to solve the problem. Consistent from the start; close the border, deport the illegals, process immigrants iaw federal law (the one Biden refuses to enforce).  You score more points by DOING, not just promising.

You cannot close the border to those seeking asylum under CURRENT law.  It isn't as simple as your statement implies. 

If Trump wins, you will get one wish.  Immigration laws will remain the same.  Trump will then sign a few EOs, which will be challenged in court and the status quo will remain.  We need to actually solve the problem to the extent possible.

We are a country that, for 200 years, begged people to come here.  Our laws largely reflect that. 

Edited February 6 by AU9377

[jj3jordan 2,056]

5 hours ago, AU9377 said:

You cannot close the border to those seeking asylum under CURRENT law.  It isn't as simple as your statement implies. 

If Trump wins, you will get one wish.  Immigration laws will remain the same.  Trump will then sign a few EOs, which will be challenged in court and the status quo will remain.  We need to actually solve the problem to the extent possible.

We are a country that, for 200 years, begged people to come here.  Our laws largely reflect that. 

Sorry misnomer on my part. Should have said secure the border. That part is simple. Trump has to fight court challenges constantly because he is, well, Trump, regardless of whether they would be beneficial and are legal. All we want is to follow the law as written. It ain’t that hard. We aren’t begging people to come here. And begging isn’t exactly true. We were happy to accept people who were skilled, literate, not going on welfare as they show up.

[AU9377 4,967]

46 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Sorry misnomer on my part. Should have said secure the border. That part is simple. Trump has to fight court challenges constantly because he is, well, Trump, regardless of whether they would be beneficial and are legal. All we want is to follow the law as written. It ain’t that hard. We aren’t begging people to come here. And begging isn’t exactly true. We were happy to accept people who were skilled, literate, not going on welfare as they show up.

Obama removed 155,311 immigrants per year from the U.S.

George W Bush removed 125,082 per year from the U.S.

Trump removed 81,415 illegal immigrants per year from the U.S.

https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/brief-history-us-immigration-policy-colonial-period-present-day#immigration-policy-21st-century-2000-2020

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

It’s interesting watching all the Republicans fall in line one by one.  A few weeks ago, this was a done deal. Trump killed it for political purposes and openly admitted it and you guys think you can use the “we want it done right” excuse. Trump ruined your ability to claim that with his big fat mouth.
 

I haven’t ever thought much about Republican policies my entire life, but I at least knew that conservatives were consistent with their desire for maximum border security. Turns out, that just a bunch of bull sh*t just like being fiscally conservative was. 

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

8 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

deport the illegals, 

I don’t think people understand what this would do to the farming and construction sector of our economy. Especially farming. It would devastate farming. The answer isn’t throwing them all out. It can’t be. 

[auburnatl1 4,965]

19 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Obama removed 155,311 immigrants per year from the U.S.

George W Bush removed 125,082 per year from the U.S.

Trump removed 81,415 illegal immigrants per year from the U.S.

https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/brief-history-us-immigration-policy-colonial-period-present-day#immigration-policy-21st-century-2000-2020

Trump was no better than any one else before him. He just yapped about it the most. But Bidens 2020 campaign changed the tone about the border. And what he said over and over and over again during his campaign implied a coming change in policy about the border - softer almost welcoming - and triggered an unprecedented surge the moment he was elected.  

It isnt just about the border integrity itself, it’s the message that Latin Americans heard that caused the historic migrant caravans to begin with.

 

[AU9377 4,967]

2 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

Trump was no better than any one else before him. He just yapped about it the most. But Bidens 2020 campaign changed the tone about the border. And what he said over and over and over again during his campaign implied a coming change in policy about the border - softer almost welcoming - and triggered an unprecedented surge the moment he was elected.  

It isnt just about the border integrity itself, it’s the message that Latin Americans heard that caused the historic migrant caravans to begin with.

 

There is no valid reason that immigration hearings are backlogged to the extent they are.  It certainly doesn't take a genius to read the applicable code sections and conclude whether someone has a valid amnesty claim or not and to order deportation. 

[jj3jordan 2,056]

2 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I don’t think people understand what this would do to the farming and construction sector of our economy. Especially farming. It would devastate farming. The answer isn’t throwing them all out. It can’t be. 

So you basically want them as slave labor. Grossly underpaid for hard work. Desperation motivates them to work for peanuts to survive and you are somehow for this?

[Gowebb11 9,330]

4 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

So you basically want them as slave labor. Grossly underpaid for hard work. Desperation motivates them to work for peanuts to survive and you are somehow for this?

For it or against it, I’m pretty sure that is exactly how this nation was built. 

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

7 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

So you basically want them as slave labor. Grossly underpaid for hard work. Desperation motivates them to work for peanuts to survive and you are somehow for this?

Ohhh ok. That’s why you want to deport all the illegals. Because they are getting underpaid by the farmers they work for. Silly me. 
 

You guys don’t think people buy this stuff, do you? 
 

The way farm workers are paid in this country is of course unethical and horrible. But deporting them all, whatever you do it for, will crash the economy. If that’s what the republicans are waiting for, that’s a pipe dream that I can guarantee they won’t follow through with.

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

11 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

It would devastate farming.

Wait a minute; I thought farming was one of the biggest reason we have the existential threat of *climate change*.  Wouldn’t this be a good think for the Dem agenda?  You guys are confusing.

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

18 hours ago, AU9377 said:

We are a country that, for 200 years, begged people to come here.  Our laws largely reflect that. 

When we *begged* people to come we were not a welfare country and if you came you knew you had to work.  Today we are a welfare country and the rules haven’t kept up.  Time for a change.  The inscription on the Statue of Liberty is not codified in law, it was a symbol of a time long past.

[jj3jordan 2,056]

2 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

Ohhh ok. That’s why you want to deport all the illegals. Because they are getting underpaid by the farmers they work for. Silly me. 
 

You guys don’t think people buy this stuff, do you? 
 

The way farm workers are paid in this country is of course unethical and horrible. But deporting them all, whatever you do it for, will crash the economy. If that’s what the republicans are waiting for, that’s a pipe dream that I can guarantee they won’t follow through with.

11 million? Are they working? No. Are they getting free stuff? Yes. Do they have to do anything to earn their keep? No.

You guys are all big on $15/hr minimum wage. Yet you are happy to accept slave labor so you can have your avocados. Be consistent. Farm workers, and all workers should not be here illegally. NONE of them should. The vast majority of the illegals are here for free stuff. Criminals and gang members are looking for a "fresh start", or "fresh targets". 

When somebody is bleeding out on the kitchen floor from an attack by an illegal, you don't spend time and money cleaning the floor. You stop the bleeding first. That is what securing the border is. And yes you can close it to anyone if necessary to balance the influx or process those here before adding to the masses.

Illegals are seen as potential lifetime democrat voters. THAT is why Joe Biden will never shut it off. And no democrat after him ever will.

[auburnatl1 4,965]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

11 million? Are they working? No. Are they getting free stuff? Yes. Do they have to do anything to earn their keep? No.

You guys are all big on $15/hr minimum wage. Yet you are happy to accept slave labor so you can have your avocados. Be consistent. Farm workers, and all workers should not be here illegally. NONE of them should. The vast majority of the illegals are here for free stuff. Criminals and gang members are looking for a "fresh start", or "fresh targets". 

When somebody is bleeding out on the kitchen floor from an attack by an illegal, you don't spend time and money cleaning the floor. You stop the bleeding first. That is what securing the border is. And yes you can close it to anyone if necessary to balance the influx or process those here before adding to the masses.

Illegals are seen as potential lifetime democrat voters. THAT is why Joe Biden will never shut it off. And no democrat after him ever will.

I don’t think it’s necessary to vilify illegal immigrants. The overwhelming majority are just looking for a better life. And given your prior religious posts - fyi they’re 85% Christian, much higher than the US. The issue is simply that it’s illegal and for a reason - their sheer numbers are overwhelming the system, they’re not screened, they can’t be culturally absorbed and educated like prior generations, and it’s unfair to people in other parts of the world that have been waiting for years to apply legally (ie Eastern Europeans, Indians, Asians, ect). It’s only because of proximity and a land bridge that latins are getting a very unfair advantage over other peoples. 

If you don’t have border integrity, you’re really not a 1st world country. I’m surprised this even requires a debate.

[AU9377 4,967]

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

When we *begged* people to come we were not a welfare country and if you came you knew you had to work.  Today we are a welfare country and the rules haven’t kept up.  Time for a change.  The inscription on the Statue of Liberty is not codified in law, it was a symbol of a time long past.

This is true.  Most of this country was incapable of providing the quality of life enjoyed by most Europeans prior to WWII.  Healthcare was an afterthought and the majority of the South was still going to the bathroom in an outhouse. The majority of the population did not have a high school education and our literacy rates were judged based on the ability to read a simple sentence.

A lot of wealth as been built by the cheap labor that many immigrants have provided.  That isn't to say that it isn't now a problem, it is. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,133]

“Left wing media conspiracy” indeed:

 

 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

6 hours ago, AU9377 said:

A lot of wealth as been built by the cheap labor that many immigrants have provided.  That isn't to say that it isn't now a problem, it is. 

Are the ones pushing the open borders the ones that are going benefit from cheap labor costs?  Are the one trying to secure the border the ones that want to fix the problem?

[AU9377 4,967]

39 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Are the ones pushing the open borders the ones that are going benefit from cheap labor costs?  Are the one trying to secure the border the ones that want to fix the problem?

I haven't heard anyone of importance "pushing open borders" in this country.

[autigeremt 6,643]

2 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I haven't heard anyone of importance "pushing open borders" in this country.

They don’t have to. It’s happening on its own.