Biden Wants Taxpayers to Pay Student Loans

[auburnatl1 5,016]

 

College tuition inflation averaged 12% annually from 2010 to 2022. 

https://www.bestcolleges.com/research/college-costs-over-time/#:~:text=Across all types of schools,times%2C between 1963 and 2021.

IMO Weve got to stop chasing symptoms. And addressing ridiculous college costs is only part of the complete US education  overhaul that’s needed.

 

[AU9377 5,029]

10 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

It's not a false construct.  A false construct is when you have additional choices that don't violate the logic of the underlying premise.  What I am doing is exposing a direct self-contradiction.

Saying that 18 year olds lack the judgement to make good choices about loans yet giving them loans anyway is a self-contradiction.

Let's substitute guns for loans.  Children lack the judgement to purchase guns and use them safely, at least without the direct supervision of an adult.  I'm sure we all agree on that.  Now, raise your hand everybody who wants to let children go buy guns by themselves.

Enough 18 year olds either can make good choices to make it make sense to keep giving all 18 year olds loans or they can't.  Which is it?  That's not a false dilemma.

I will agree with the premise that the default should be the same as any other default, as long as we're talking about any other default that the lending institution is forced to give the recipient regardless of fitness to repay, and that is guaranteed with taxpayer dollars.  BTW, do you know any other loans like that?

As for "Education shouldn't be available only to the wealthy," it used to not be only for the wealthy.  You know when that changed?  When they ramped up this student loan nonsense.  If you really cared about the cost of college and who could afford it, you'd be as against the loans as I am.

When I went to college I worked part time and between myself and my parents helping as they could, we paid for my own school, no loans necessary.   And my parents were no Rockefellers.  My mother taught first grade in a county school system and my father was the manager of a convenience store.  He never went to college.  We were definitely lower middle class.

 

I don't agree with every point you make, but one thing is certain, you are intelligent and I appreciate your ability to make an educated point thru your writing. I respect that.

[cbo 7,916]

On 4/10/2024 at 5:59 AM, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

I had a long reply typed out to this and managed to lose it.  😂

I'll summarize here:

"Fixing" education in America starts with abandoning this model of forced mass government education.  First, I can't see how it's not unconstitutional to mandate that parents send their children to school.  Imagine the government coming up with some other program designed to improve society—say, an exercise program—and MANDATING by force of law that citizens participate in it.  We take it for granted because it's always existed during our lifetimes, but it's unconstitutional as hell (even if some court has ruled otherwise...if that happened they made a mistake.)

Second, we've got to reframe education as a privilege rather than a "right."  Many of the biggest problems we have are caused by these two things...forcing everyone to participate, and acting like everyone has a "right" to a "free" education.  It should be like the public library.  It's there for your use, but you don't have to use it if you don't want to, and if you act up in there you get tossed and lose your privilege.  They way we do it now is why 19% of high school GRADUATES (not drop-outs...they aren't part of this number) can't read.  And those students keep others from learning and place an undue burden on the system.

Third, the system itself is obsolete.  We still need direct, in-person teacher to student instruction in elementary school, but once you learn to read and do basic math, most of the rest could and should be online IMO.  Teachers could still be available, but they should function more like tutors to help students when they got stuck rather than going through the excruciatingly inefficient exercise of presenting all the material to them.  There's just no reason that that should be necessary for the vast majority of subjects. Students could work through the material at their own pace, and a whole lot more material could be made available to those who were able to move faster.  That's one of the problems with the current model.  Too often, students who could go much faster are held back by students who need more time just to master basic material.  In a mostly online model, students who could move faster could access more advanced material once they had completed the core material.

Fourth, such a model would truly standardize public education.  Because students all across the nation would be taking exactly the same courses and passing exactly the same tests (from a certain point on, at least).  It would easily identify problem elementary schools.  It would easily identify areas in which the courses were failing to prepare students, etc.  

The one thing I don't know how to tell you to fix is the fact that it would still be run by the federal government, so there would still be people constantly claiming that the tests and courses were biased, racist, whatever, and there would still be constant downward pressure to relax standard to accomodate those who couldn't perform.  I don't have an answer for that.  When you let politicians control something, that's what you always get.

Your plan for education reformation is less students, less teachers, and more standardized testing?

[AURex 2,031]

Well, ya know, the American education system sux big donkey balls. In the countries we consider our economic and social equals, higher education is FREE for those who make the grades and pass the exams. And based on standardized exams, their younger populace beats the crap out of U.S. students in maths, history, geography, languages, reading comprehension, etc, etc.

And furthermore, not mentioned in this thread, there is a societal benefit to paying off the student debts of our younger generation. 

 

[JMWATS 104]

8 hours ago, AURex said:

Well, ya know, the American education system sux big donkey balls. In the countries we consider our economic and social equals, higher education is FREE for those who make the grades and pass the exams. And based on standardized exams, their younger populace beats the crap out of U.S. students in maths, history, geography, languages, reading comprehension, etc, etc.

And furthermore, not mentioned in this thread, there is a societal benefit to paying off the student debts of our younger generation. 

 

 

There is no such thing as free.  Somebody is paying.   As I recall in America there is this thing called an academic scholarship where "higher education is free for those who make the grades and pass the exams".

 

In a lot of those countries where higher education is free to the student the rest of his or her peer group will not have an opportunity for higher education as the system has identified them as not worthy.       

[Leftfield 2,651]

1 hour ago, JMWATS said:

There is no such thing as free.  Somebody is paying.   As I recall in America there is this thing called an academic scholarship where "higher education is free for those who make the grades and pass the exams".  

I agree with you that somebody is paying. However, full-ride scholarships are far less common than you imply here.

[autigeremt 6,668]

On 5/12/2024 at 12:03 AM, AURex said:

Well, ya know, the American education system sux big donkey balls. In the countries we consider our economic and social equals, higher education is FREE for those who make the grades and pass the exams. And based on standardized exams, their younger populace beats the crap out of U.S. students in maths, history, geography, languages, reading comprehension, etc, etc.

And furthermore, not mentioned in this thread, there is a societal benefit to paying off the student debts of our younger generation. 

 

A societal benefit? Why don't we just eff the entire multi-generational makeup and stop collecting taxes, close down all the government offices, clear the entire deck....and start the eff over? 

Rum for everyone! 

[CoffeeTiger 5,167]

2 hours ago, autigeremt said:

A societal benefit? Why don't we just eff the entire multi-generational makeup and stop collecting taxes, close down all the government offices, clear the entire deck....and start the eff over? 

Rum for everyone! 

 

Did you just copy-paste this from the Libertarian Party website? 

[AURex 2,031]

On 5/12/2024 at 9:07 AM, JMWATS said:

 

There is no such thing as free.  Somebody is paying.   As I recall in America there is this thing called an academic scholarship where "higher education is free for those who make the grades and pass the exams".

 

In a lot of those countries where higher education is free to the student the rest of his or her peer group will not have an opportunity for higher education as the system has identified them as not worthy.       

 I think you missed the implication of free to STUDENTS. It is not a scholarship. It is free admission, coursework, materials, etc. There is no equivalent in the U.S.

As for "the rest of their peer group," well the same is true in the U.S. The younger people who do not pursue higher education, or who are just not smart enough to make a run educationally, are "not worthy" in the U.S. educational system either.

 

[JMWATS 104]

9 hours ago, AURex said:

 As for "the rest of their peer group," well the same is true in the U.S. The younger people who do not pursue higher education, or who are just not smart enough to make a run educationally, are "not worthy" in the U.S. educational system either.

 

At least in the U.S. there is a road forward to higher education if they choose it. 

[autigeremt 6,668]

21 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Did you just copy-paste this from the Libertarian Party website? 

No….but thank you non the less.