Donutboy 0 Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Americans suffer while drug comapnies and health care providers enjoy record profits and massive tax cuts. Rapidly escalating health care costs are the greatest threat to our American economy. We could stabilize health care costs overnight if this administration would allow Americans to buy drugs from Canadian companies but that'll never happen when they depend so heavily on campaign contributions from HMOs and Drug Companies. Health care now deemed a luxury for middle class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,519 Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 We could stabilize health care costs overnight if this administration would allow Americans to buy drugs from Canadian companies... In the dictionary, under "naive", is your picture and this quote. It also lists "uninformed" as a related item to take a look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutboy 0 Posted November 19, 2003 Author Share Posted November 19, 2003 We could stabilize health care costs overnight if this administration would allow Americans to buy drugs from Canadian companies... In the dictionary, under "naive", is your picture and this quote. It also lists "uninformed" as a related item to take a look at. Hmmmm, competiton drives down prices. Currently, the Drug Companies and HMOs have no domestic competition. They're basically a cartel. Giving Americans a chance to buy the same drugs from Canadian Companies at lower prices WON'T drive down costs here. BTW, what happened to Free Trade? Does it not include pharmaceuticals? Are you sure I'M the one being naive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,519 Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Hmmmm, competiton drives down prices. Currently, the Drug Companies and HMOs have no domestic competition. They're basically a cartel. Giving Americans a chance to buy the same drugs from Canadian Companies at lower prices WON'T drive down costs here. BTW, what happened to Free Trade? Does it not include pharmaceuticals? Are you sure I'M the one being naive? Didn't say it wouldn't drive down prices (albeit by artificial means since the Canadian gov't puts price controls on the drugs, but that's a side issue). And that's not what you said either. At least not originally. You said that allowing Americans to purchase drugs from Canada would (and I quote) "stabilize health care costs overnight." That is incredibly naive and uninformed. Health care costs are way more complex than simply introducing artificial competition on one component of health care (pharmaceuticals). And trade involving heavily regulated and price-controlled items is not what "free trade" covers anyway and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM4AU 336 Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 ...HMOs have no domestic competition. They're basically a cartel. I suggest you go to Consumer Reports website and look up HMOs in the US. To say there is no competition is laughable and "misleading" or "uninformed." Take your pick! Consumer Reports Link on HMOs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutboy 0 Posted November 19, 2003 Author Share Posted November 19, 2003 Hmmmm, competiton drives down prices. Currently, the Drug Companies and HMOs have no domestic competition. They're basically a cartel. Giving Americans a chance to buy the same drugs from Canadian Companies at lower prices WON'T drive down costs here. BTW, what happened to Free Trade? Does it not include pharmaceuticals? Are you sure I'M the one being naive? Didn't say it wouldn't drive down prices (albeit by artificial means since the Canadian gov't puts price controls on the drugs, but that's a side issue). And that's not what you said either. At least not originally. You said that allowing Americans to purchase drugs from Canada would (and I quote) "stabilize health care costs overnight." That is incredibly naive and uninformed. Health care costs are way more complex than simply introducing artificial competition on one component of health care (pharmaceuticals). And trade involving heavily regulated and price-controlled items is not what "free trade" covers anyway and you know it. And what is naive about thinking allowing the purchase of Canadian drugs wouldn't stabilize the health care crisis in America overnight. I didn't say it would SOLVE it. I said it would STABILIZE it. Do you think the American drug companies would continue escalating drug prices when the American public could now buy it cheaper elsewhere? Would causing drug companies to discontinue their price gouging NOT stabilize the industry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,519 Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 And what is naive about thinking allowing the purchase of Canadian drugs wouldn't stabilize the health care crisis in America overnight. I didn't say it would SOLVE it. I said it would STABILIZE it. Do you think the American drug companies would continue escalating drug prices when the American public could now buy it cheaper elsewhere? Would causing drug companies to discontinue their price gouging NOT stabilize the industry? Well, you said it would stabilize the "costs" (not the crisis, which involves many other factors) "overnight". That is naive. There are so many factors in health care costs besides pharmaceuticals. My point is: there is no "overnight" solution to the health care costs or crisis. Saying so is N-A-I-V-E. Period. And there are some other factors going on here that you need to consider. First of all, price controls like those in Canada and other countries with socialized medicine artificially drive down prices in one part of the world. That is naturally going to affect what is charged in places without those controls based on market forces. Secondly, pharmaceutical companies give away tons of medicine, not only to doctors as samples for patients, but to free clinics that serve the poor in America, to third world countries that can't pay for life-saving drugs, and numerous other people in need already. Third, the drug companies also give discounts to those evil HMOs, which benefits patients. The leverage those insurance companies and HMOs have by covering their member's prescriptions causes the drug companies to lower prices to play ball. My point is this: the drug companies are not necessarily as evil and greedy as you would like to think they are. So often, conservatives are accused of only seeing things in stark "black or white" terms with no shades of grey. This is what you are doing right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutboy 0 Posted November 19, 2003 Author Share Posted November 19, 2003 And what is naive about thinking allowing the purchase of Canadian drugs wouldn't stabilize the health care crisis in America overnight. I didn't say it would SOLVE it. I said it would STABILIZE it. Do you think the American drug companies would continue escalating drug prices when the American public could now buy it cheaper elsewhere? Would causing drug companies to discontinue their price gouging NOT stabilize the industry? Well, you said it would stabilize the "costs" (not the crisis, which involves many other factors) "overnight". That is naive. There are so many factors in health care costs besides pharmaceuticals. My point is: there is no "overnight" solution to the health care costs or crisis. Saying so is N-A-I-V-E. Period. And there are some other factors going on here that you need to consider. First of all, price controls like those in Canada and other countries with socialized medicine artificially drive down prices in one part of the world. That is naturally going to affect what is charged in places without those controls based on market forces. Secondly, pharmaceutical companies give away tons of medicine, not only to doctors as samples for patients, but to free clinics that serve the poor in America, to third world countries that can't pay for life-saving drugs, and numerous other people in need already. Third, the drug companies also give discounts to those evil HMOs, which benefits patients. The leverage those insurance companies and HMOs have by covering their member's prescriptions causes the drug companies to lower prices to play ball. My point is this: the drug companies are not necessarily as evil and greedy as you would like to think they are. So often, conservatives are accused of only seeing things in stark "black or white" terms with no shades of grey. This is what you are doing right now. AGAIN, I never said it would SOLVE the problem overnight. I said it would STABILIZE costs overnight and I still believe this. It may be naive but I always thought that market forces helped control costs. If a new player comes to the table with lower prices, I just don't see the American drug companies continuing to escalate their own prices. It wouldn't make good economic sense. Whether they lower prices overnight or not, it'd stop the bleeding just having them stop escalating prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,519 Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 AGAIN, I never said it would SOLVE the problem overnight. I said it would STABILIZE costs overnight and I still believe this. It may be naive but I always thought that market forces helped control costs. If a new player comes to the table with lower prices, I just don't see the American drug companies continuing to escalate their own prices. It wouldn't make good economic sense. Whether they lower prices overnight or not, it'd stop the bleeding just having them stop escalating prices. You're still wrong. It would bring down one small aspect of health care costs down (prescription drugs), and even on that one aspect it wouldn't be overnight. And overall health care costs would still be escalating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aucorner 0 Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 you can get private coverage for a family with a $1000 yearly deductible and 80% coverage for the first $5000 expenses with 100% coverage over $5000 for less than $425/month. I think people are too lazy to find coverage or the ones this is pointing to are not truly middle class. Hey donuts, does middle class start for you just above the poverty line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny AU-92 0 Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Hey, donut, here's a little news flash for you - the drug companies don't set consumer prices - the RETAILERS do!!! There was a report just last night on the local news here that said that Costco, the warehouse store, is able to fill certain generic prescriptions for a price that is LESS THAN THE CO-PAY ON MOST INSURANCE PLANS!! So can Sam's Club. AND you don't have to be a member of either to use their pharmacy. So what that says to me is that not enough Americans do their homework in looking for the lowest price. It also says that HMO's, and other volume purchasing organizations, like Sam's and Costco, are the best way to keep drug prices low while keeping consumers safe. This same report showed that CVS, Walgreens and Eckerds were overcharging the uninsured by sometimes as much as $150 more than the cost of the same exact drug at Costco. KHOU, Channel 11 in Houston So yes, you are VERY naive. Here's another problem with your "Just buy from Canada" theory: Okay, the law changes to say that Americans can buy drugs from the Canadians or Mexico or the Mongolians - open market. These countries may or may not have the same type of controls with regards to quality that we enjoy here in the US. So the first time some American dies from taking a drug that was not approved by the US FDA, guess what happens. Trial lawyers coming out of the woodwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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