Its OK to attack the police....

[CCTAU 3,350]

This story out of Cincinatti has the NAACP going nuts. but if a 400 lb. man were attacking me, I dang sure wouldn't consider him unarmed. his weight alone is a weapon. Maybe I'm just against fat people. Yeah, that's it.

Big Boy

[CCTAU 3,350]

They still won't let this go. The man ATTACKED 2 police officers. His family says he was a big teddy bear. The video SHOWS him attacking the officers and putting one in a headlock. But now the community wants everyone to believe that if you are hopped up on cocaine and pcp and black, that it's OK to pass out in public. I guess the police should just leave them there till it wears off or they die. besides, the paramedics called to police. How long will it take Jesse Jackson to show up? Here's the newest story.

New Story

[MDM4AU 336]

If you hear the audio of the incident, He calls the officers rednecks and uses a racial slur, then the large man tells the Police officer he attempts to waylay, "This is what my mama taught me!" He is told more than 15 times to put his hands behind his back. The man was sprayed with pepper spray and wasn't bothered by it!

[Jenny AU-92 0]

When he hit the first cop, all bets were off. The cop's partner then officially had the LEGAL RIGHT to shot that SOB dead.

I just don't get this - what are they supposed to do, wait for a 300+ lb psycho hopped up on coke and PCP to put one of them in a coma before they react? There is annecdotal and some limited scientific evidence that pepper spray is ineffective on a person under the influence of PCP because the pain receptors in the person's body are so out of control, they don't even feel it. That is why the a-hole kept fighting, even tho the cops were hitting him.

I was listening to talk radio Monday, and a guy from Cincinnati called in and said that he is worried about police protection in Cincinnati now, because after the riots a few years ago, the cops are afraid to do ANYTHING that might cost them their job, their life savings, their reputations, etc. They would get called racist, etc for the least little thing - so they instead do nothing. So which is better? That is what happens when race is AUTOMATICALLY trotted out in every instance where the people involved are of a different color.

[bammanmr 0]

When he hit the first cop, all bets were off.

DAM* RIGHT!

How anyone could look at that video, and think the officers were out of line is ridiculous.

[Wishbone 0]

That FAT SOB could have killed or crippled that cop instantly. That cop should have had his gun drawn and shot that worthless sack of excrement before he got 3 feet. At least we can all take comfort that this S.O.S. is dead now and can't get hopped up on coke and PCP and attack innocent people.

[Donutboy 0]

It's NOT OK to attack the police, whether black or white, but there are some alarming things about this incident. The man was a regular customer at this restaurant and the call was made because the people feared for HIS safety after he passed out, not their own. If the man was as intoxicated/high/wasted, whatever as has been reported, it could safely be assumed that he was disoriented and struggled with the paramedics and police because he didn't know what was going on. Would you be upset if the police in a predominantly black area killed your brother or son because they were unruly when drunk/high, etc.? There are non-lethal ways of taking down a doped-up suspect other than beating them to unconsciousness with billy clubs. There are stun guns which disable a person by flooding their nerves with enough electricity to demobilize their muscles. There are guns that fire beanbags. They provide the same punch as a bullet but do not penetrate the skin. There are also dogs. What happened in Cincinnati is a tragedy in that a life was lost. It never fails to amaze me the people who will call this person "a fat SOB" or a "SOS" when they don't even know the person and have probably been wasted a time or two in their past, as well.

[big dude 0]

First of all, noone called the cops becuase he was passed out in his car. They called the cops becuase the guy was dancing in the parking lot and disturbing other customers. If I owned this resteraunt, I'd do the same thing to keep those customers coming back. When the cops SHOWED UP, he was passed out in his car.

Secondly, the beating is NOT what killed him. The autopsy states that there were no deep tissue wounds and none of the major organs had been disturbed. Most of the licks he took were across the back of the shoulders or below the waist. Being hopped up on PCP and cocaine with an enlarged heart while weighing close to 400 pounds is what killed him.

Also, like Jenny said, once he lunged at the first officer, all bets are off. I'm 6'2", 320 pounds, but if I see a man bigger than me, no matter white or black coming after me, something is gonna happen. These guys have no reason to hide behind a badge like they've been wrongly perceived to be doing. Their main duty in their jobs is to PROTECT and SERVE. This means protecting their personal well-being while serving the public in this case.

If the tables were turned and this drug-crazed man were to beat one of the cops with his own billy club, would it be seen as racially motivated? I highly doubt that. It would be seen as another death due to drugs, another life lost in the line of duty.

[Donutboy 0]

Secondly, the beating is NOT what killed him.  The autopsy states that there were no deep tissue wounds and none of the major organs had been disturbed.  Most of the licks he took were across the back of the shoulders or below the waist.  Being hopped up on PCP and cocaine with an enlarged heart while weighing close to 400 pounds is what killed him.

If the beating is not what killed him, why did the coroner (a medical expert) rule it a homicide?

[big dude 0]

A homicide is when someone dies by the hands of another person. It's very obvious that's what happened. DUH!!!

He followed that up by saying that in no way does that mean that the cops were in the wrong.

No deep tissue bruising.

No damage to any major organs from any of the blows.

A blown heart valve blamed on an enlarged heart. I don't see PCP and cocaine being medical miracles to treat an enlarged heart.

The coroner also said that he blamed the heart seized from the stress of the attack.

[Donutboy 0]

A homicide is when someone dies by the hands of another person.  It's very obvious that's what happened.  DUH!!!

But you stated, the beating is not what killed him. Huh? If it wasn't the beating that killed him but it was "a death at the hands of another person", could you please enlighten me which part of the attempted arrest DID kill him? I just assumed it was the beating.

[big dude 0]

Becuase "death by blown heart valve" isn't one of the choices on the little sheet he fills out, I guess.

I don't claim to know every little nuance of this story. I'm just pointing out facts that I've picked up along the way and trying to make sure you have the story straight before you go off on one of your leftist rants.

[Donutboy 0]

Becuase "death by blown heart valve" isn't one of the choices on the little sheet he fills out, I guess.

I don't claim to know every little nuance of this story. I'm just pointing out facts that I've picked up along the way and trying to make sure you have the story straight before you go off on one of your leftist rants.

Pardon me for needing clarification but I still don't see how "he was not killed by the beating" and being "killed at the hands of another"/homicide ruling can be true in both cases. The drugs may have contributed to the death but the coroner believes he would not have died except for the beating.

BTW, there would not necessarily be deep bruising if the beating caused his heart to blow out. Deep bruises are caused by continuous internal bleeding. If he died during the beating, there would have been little or no bruising after the heart stopped pumping blood!!

[TrueTiger 0]

I don't care who it is. If they attack a police officer, they deserve what they get. I think the police can only shoot when they have no other option though.

WARR EAGLE

[big dude 0]

Hey guy, news flash!!! I'M NOT THE CORONER!!!!

Just saying the facts that I've gathered. I'm sure that if you had gone to school to be a coroner you might know the reasons that it's classified as a homicide. There are stipulations set up and they state that a homicide happens at the hands of another person. The coroner said the stress to the heart was brought on by the struggle, therefore causing his enlarged heart, which was racing with PCP, cocaine and adrenaline, I'm sure, to basically explode.

I just like to form my opinions based on the facts that I hear. I don't let my political views get in the way of facts.

THE STRESS OF THE STRUGGLE CAUSED HIS HEART TO BLOW OUT, NOT THE BEATING!!!!

Are you a doctor? I suppose you know all the reasons for deep bruises? Then you must know that a billy club WILL cause them, right?

[Donutboy 0]

Hey guy, news flash!!! I'M NOT THE CORONER!!!!

Just saying the facts that I've gathered. I'm sure that if you had gone to school to be a coroner you might know the reasons that it's classified as a homicide. There are stipulations set up and they state that a homicide happens at the hands of another person. The coroner said the stress to the heart was brought on by the struggle, therefore causing his enlarged heart, which was racing with PCP, cocaine and adrenaline, I'm sure, to basically explode.

I just like to form my opinions based on the facts that I hear. I don't let my political views get in the way of facts.

THE STRESS OF THE STRUGGLE CAUSED HIS HEART TO BLOW OUT, NOT THE BEATING!!!!

Are you a doctor? I suppose you know all the reasons for deep bruises? Then you must know that a billy club WILL cause them, right?

Well, actually, I didn't consider this a political issue. I was just trying to get a clarification of why you say the police didn't kill this man but the coroner would rule it a homicide, death at the hands of another. As for being educated to be a coroner, I wasn't. However, I wasn't the one who made the broad sweeping statement that the police didn't kill the man. I didn't realize you WERE a coroner.

[Wishbone 0]

That man was not just acting unruly, he was a 350 lb man on PCP and Crack attacking a man half his size. Because that cop chose not to use his gun he could have been killed instantly by taking the first blow. A big man like thay, with drug enhanced rage, could have snapped the cops neck in an instant.

Donutboy, your opinions are the reason why good people die at the hands of losers like that cracked up fat albert. You're the type of guy that puts pressure on LEOs to put themselves in unnecessary dangerous situations due to political pressure. If your going to take the side of fat albert on crack then you're no better than him in my opinion.

BTW, Tasers and Mace don't always work on enraged behemoths like that. I have seen a case of where a officer was killed because he opted for mace instead of a gun.

[Donutboy 0]

That man was not just acting unruly, he was a 350 lb man on PCP and Crack attacking a man half his size. Because that cop chose not to use his gun he could have been killed instantly by taking the first blow. A big man like thay, with drug enhanced rage, could have snapped the cops neck in an instant.

Donutboy, your opinions are the reason why good people die at the hands of losers like that cracked up fat albert. You're the type of guy that puts pressure on LEOs to put themselves in unnecessary dangerous situations due to political pressure. If your going to take the side of fat albert on crack then you're no better than him in my opinion.

BTW, Tasers and Mace don't always work on enraged behemoths like that. I have seen a case of where a officer was killed because he opted for mace instead of a gun.

Let me tell you about a recent incident in our neck of the woods. A game warden took it upon himself to stop a motorist for speeding, even though he was untrained in traffic control. When he stopped the car at a local gas station, he pulled his gun on the suspect, a black man, and demanded to see his license. The black man, whose white wife was sitting in the seat beside of him, got out and reached into the backseat of his car. When he pulled up out of the back seat to present his license, the game warden shot and killed him. His license went fluttering to the ground. The unarmed black man was shot and killed needlessly and the white game warden got probation. This happens in epidemic proportions in this nation but some people don't have a problem with it because it's a "Fat Albert" instead of a young white man. Ask yourself one question. How would you feel if it were YOUR son that was killed for being intoxicated?

[Wishbone 0]

Hey,

Soundsl ike you got a problem with cops in general. I don't know the details of your story, but it has nothing to do with the cincinatti situation.

BTW, You’re are right about one thing. I do draw the line between the loss of a decent person and a predator/ loser. Personally, I am glad that fat albert sack of excrement is dead, Cincinnati is a better town today for it.

I can earnestly hope that you get to experience the violent side of one of those fat albert types in person in the near future. Maybe that would teach you a lesson. I just hope the cops that come to your aid know your true feelings about them.

[CCTAU 3,350]

Hey,

Soundsl ike you got a problem with cops in general. I don't know the details of your story, but it has nothing to do with the cincinatti situation.

BTW, You’re are right about one thing. I do draw the line between the loss of a decent person and a predator/ loser. Personally, I am glad that fat albert sack of excrement is dead, Cincinnati is a better town today for it.

I can earnestly hope that you get to experience the violent side of one of those fat albert types in person in the near future. Maybe that would teach you a lesson. I just hope the cops that come to your aid know your true feelings about them.

That'll never happen. People like nonut always judge from above without the benefit of experience.

The game warden situation was wrong. But it wasn't racial either. It was a lack of training that caused that.

Before you get into this discussion, read the articles. The medical examiner HAD to choose homicide because it wasn't suicide or an accident. An outside force caused the death, in technical terms. The officers did the right thing. As soon as other officers showed up, the billy clubs were put away. all they wanted him to do was put on the cuffs and get in the car.

Now, I am not a big fan of the judicial system, but I do respect the police. If I am going to fight them, it will be a well planned out event, not hopped up on PCP. So, as usual, you take the minority side. What makes you think that only minorities have it bad. This guy, regardless of race, was wrong. And he got what he asked for.

[big dude 0]

I thought this wasn't a political issue.....Looks like you just turned it into one.

My "broad, sweeping statements" were simply facts about the case that I had heard from new sources. I was trying to make sure you understood the whole situation becuase your first post had some facts that were not true.

[Jenny AU-92 0]

Not to mention that there is anectdotal evidence, backed up by what science understands about the effects of PCP on the body, that would show that pepper spray, "beanbags", tasers, etc. HAVE NO EFFECT on someone under the influence of PCP. The nervous system is absolutely out of control when PCP is involved, and the person's pain receptors are not functioning. Bean bags, pepper spray - might as well be cotton balls and water. A dog only works if there is an element of fear on the part of the suspect - a dog alone could not have brought that huge man down - the dog would have just been killed or injured. That is why sometimes even shooting a PCP crazed person does not work if it is not an immediately fatal shot - the person's body does not even recognize that it has been wounded because the synapses are all misfiring. The beating with the Asp (the retractable metal club that is standard issue to most cops now) was as much as attempt to physically FORCE him down to the ground as it was to cause injury and ultimately death. Knock someone down and hopefully you can jump on him and get him restrained.

The coroner's report said the beating and the force used expedited the man's death - it would have happened very soon anyway, because of the heart condition, but the stress of the situation caused it to occur sooner than later.

And as a cop's kid, it REALLY REALLY torques me off when some bleeding heart makes every single cop involved incident into a racial or an otherwise evil deliberate act. If that had been my dad getting punched, I would have HOPED that his partner would have shot the guy. I do agree that as in any other profession, there will always be a small percentage of people who have no business wearing a gun and a badge, but for every one of those, there are thousands who are underpaid to do a thankless job of putting their own lives on the line every day to deal with the dregs of society. No I would not want my son or daughter or husband to be shot dead by a cop, but neither would I want my father to be shot dead by a scumbag because he tried to use a beanbag instead of his Glock so he wouldn't hurt the piece of crap and thereby give some pinko ACLU type the chance to try to ruin his life afterwards.

Another part to this is that people have to be taught to respect the police and the power they have. When I am stopped, and I have been several times, cop daddy notwithstanding, I am respectful, polite, keep my hands on the wheel and do NOTHING to provoke an incident that might turn out unpleasant for either of us. But why should only white people be taught this? I read an article in Newsweek written by a black man one time that said he taught his kids the same things - be polite, be respectful, do as you are told - not because they are black, but because it is the right thing to do when dealing with the police!!! We have had two incidents in Houston in recent weeks where two Latino teens were killed by police - one because he refused orders to take his hands out of his pockets and then made a sudden move (he was unarmed) and the other because he was fighting the cops. If they had done as they were told (in Spanish, might I add) there would have been no problem. Take your hands out of your pockets, show you have no weapon, and if you have no warrants, you go home. Very simple. Instead, the kid is dead. And of course, LULAC and the Latino community and our favorite local Congressional hate monger, Sheila Jackson Lee, are all up in arms. I think part of the burden lies with this same community that teaches their kids that all cops are bad, that all cops want to kill you, that all cops are racist (what about the Latino cops?? the black cops?? Them too?) so you should disobey them at every opportunity.

Okay, I feel better....