Ted Kennedy

[LegalEagle 22]

Someone please change Texas Tiger's tag to "Most Conceited"

I think his posts have been spot-on.

I, too, am amazed at the level of hatred some people feel toward Kennedy. I'm not talking about policy disagreements that go overboard, but, pure out and out hatred based on a mistake he made 40 yrs ago and one that had zero effect on the lives of the ones who hate him. This level of moral judgement and absolute void of any kind of forgiveness that comes from self-proclaimed Christians seems to run counter to the teachings of Jesus.

I find that the same ones who "hate" EK also "hate" N. Pelosi, H. R. Clinton, W. J. Clinton, A. Gore, etc. and will soon "hate" B. H. Obama. It appears almost all of these folks are Republicans.

As an independent, I have noticed that Republicans have a difficult time just disagreeing with folks about issues. They have to use tactics of warfare to dehumanize those not in lock step with their views. This is how we got "Nips" and "Krauts" in WWII and "Gooks" in Vietnam. They don't seem to be capable of respecting anyone who has differing views.

On the other hand, the Dems seem to be able to disagree without hate. They express feelings of "strong disappointment" with Bush. Maybe it's because they recognize that the poor guy is an idiot, but I don't think so.

Has anyone else noticed this. Am I off base here?

[Tigermike 3,055]

Someone please change Texas Tiger's tag to "Most Conceited"

I think his posts have been spot-on.

I, too, am amazed at the level of hatred some people feel toward Kennedy. I'm not talking about policy disagreements that go overboard, but, pure out and out hatred based on a mistake he made 40 yrs ago and one that had zero effect on the lives of the ones who hate him. This level of moral judgement and absolute void of any kind of forgiveness that comes from self-proclaimed Christians seems to run counter to the teachings of Jesus.

I find that the same ones who "hate" EK also "hate" N. Pelosi, H. R. Clinton, W. J. Clinton, A. Gore, etc. and will soon "hate" B. H. Obama. It appears almost all of these folks are Republicans.

As an independent, I have noticed that Republicans have a difficult time just disagreeing with folks about issues. They have to use tactics of warfare to dehumanize those not in lock step with their views. This is how we got "Nips" and "Krauts" in WWII and "Gooks" in Vietnam. They don't seem to be capable of respecting anyone who has differing views.

On the other hand, the Dems seem to be able to disagree without hate. They express feelings of "strong disappointment" with Bush. Maybe it's because they recognize that the poor guy is an idiot, but I don't think so.

Has anyone else noticed this. Am I off base here?

You just left this off.

[WinCrimson 61]

Someone please change Texas Tiger's tag to "Most Conceited"

I think his posts have been spot-on.

I, too, am amazed at the level of hatred some people feel toward Kennedy. I'm not talking about policy disagreements that go overboard, but, pure out and out hatred based on a mistake he made 40 yrs ago and one that had zero effect on the lives of the ones who hate him. This level of moral judgement and absolute void of any kind of forgiveness that comes from self-proclaimed Christians seems to run counter to the teachings of Jesus.

I find that the same ones who "hate" EK also "hate" N. Pelosi, H. R. Clinton, W. J. Clinton, A. Gore, etc. and will soon "hate" B. H. Obama. It appears almost all of these folks are Republicans.

As an independent, I have noticed that Republicans have a difficult time just disagreeing with folks about issues. They have to use tactics of warfare to dehumanize those not in lock step with their views. This is how we got "Nips" and "Krauts" in WWII and "Gooks" in Vietnam. They don't seem to be capable of respecting anyone who has differing views.

On the other hand, the Dems seem to be able to disagree without hate. They express feelings of "strong disappointment" with Bush. Maybe it's because they recognize that the poor guy is an idiot, but I don't think so.

Has anyone else noticed this. Am I off base here?

To some degree, I think you're right. They jump to dismiss any viewpoint through the unfair usage of labels -- "hippie", "liberal", "socialist", "queer lover", etc.

They seem to be a little more fervent in expressing their views than Democrats, which in turn leads to more cynical statements.

Neither side is pure as lamb's wool, however. Both can dish out some zingers though there are more conservative Republicans (Ann Coulter, Michael Savage, Neal Boortz, Bill O'Reilly) rolling in the mud than Democrats. If any of you disagree, listen to liberal talk radio (Rachel Maddow, Ed Schultz, Ron Reagan) and tell me if you notice a difference.

[aumd03 2]

Someone please change Texas Tiger's tag to "Most Conceited"

I think his posts have been spot-on.

I, too, am amazed at the level of hatred some people feel toward Kennedy. I'm not talking about policy disagreements that go overboard, but, pure out and out hatred based on a mistake he made 40 yrs ago and one that had zero effect on the lives of the ones who hate him. This level of moral judgement and absolute void of any kind of forgiveness that comes from self-proclaimed Christians seems to run counter to the teachings of Jesus.

I find that the same ones who "hate" EK also "hate" N. Pelosi, H. R. Clinton, W. J. Clinton, A. Gore, etc. and will soon "hate" B. H. Obama. It appears almost all of these folks are Republicans.

As an independent, I have noticed that Republicans have a difficult time just disagreeing with folks about issues. They have to use tactics of warfare to dehumanize those not in lock step with their views. This is how we got "Nips" and "Krauts" in WWII and "Gooks" in Vietnam. They don't seem to be capable of respecting anyone who has differing views.

On the other hand, the Dems seem to be able to disagree without hate. They express feelings of "strong disappointment" with Bush. Maybe it's because they recognize that the poor guy is an idiot, but I don't think so.

Has anyone else noticed this. Am I off base here?

Yeah, thats why there are so many on the right with "F: The Senator" stickers on their cars. So I guess its do as I say and not as I do with the left. And no, I don't hate Sen. Obama, Clinton, Pelosi. I disagree with their beliefs, but I don't hate them. I hate those on the right that do stupid things as well. I think Kennedy just sums up what is wrong with the social and political elite and career politicians in this country. Here is a man that rode his brother's coattails into office and had a catastrophic lapse in judgement. He claims he was in shock but was clearheaded enough to consult his lawyers and plan an alibi and devise a story of what happened. He's just scum. I hate scum. He was covering his @ss, while someone was dying.

I also find it humorous that you seem to imply in your post that its ok to hate Kennedy for his policies but can't hate him for being a low-life.

Nothing like a red-herring of racial slurs to distract the reader. And thats is relevant to this how? And you can prove this is a right wing problem how? I've honestly heard more of that out of people claiming to be democrats than I have republicans. But thats neither here nor there. Nice try at a racist association though.

TigerAl, I didn't realize that the only one that can think poorly of a person for their actions is the victim?

Whats wrong with hating someone? How do you even define hate? This isn't some sort of kumbaya session where we all must love each other. Not all hatred is wrong. Hatred for immoral actions is warranted. Since we are making religious references, even God turned His back on His own Son when he accepted the sin of the world.

And as for the disrespect. How have I disrespected you? I haven't resorted to name calling, personal insults, etc. There are those that do, but they ride both sides of the fence. I can almost guarantee that ELF and PETA members won't be voting republican this year. They are well known for their disrespect and even criminal activity. Just like extremist fundamentalist aren't going to vote for Obama (I'm thinking he'll get the nomination). You can't just lump everyone together.

As for moral judgement. Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black. A judgement on those passing judgement.

[CCTAU 3,350]

Someone please change Texas Tiger's tag to "Most Conceited"

I think his posts have been spot-on.

I, too, am amazed at the level of hatred some people feel toward Kennedy. I'm not talking about policy disagreements that go overboard, but, pure out and out hatred based on a mistake he made 40 yrs ago and one that had zero effect on the lives of the ones who hate him. This level of moral judgement and absolute void of any kind of forgiveness that comes from self-proclaimed Christians seems to run counter to the teachings of Jesus.

I find that the same ones who "hate" EK also "hate" N. Pelosi, H. R. Clinton, W. J. Clinton, A. Gore, etc. and will soon "hate" B. H. Obama. It appears almost all of these folks are Republicans.

As an independent, I have noticed that Republicans have a difficult time just disagreeing with folks about issues. They have to use tactics of warfare to dehumanize those not in lock step with their views. This is how we got "Nips" and "Krauts" in WWII and "Gooks" in Vietnam. They don't seem to be capable of respecting anyone who has differing views.

On the other hand, the Dems seem to be able to disagree without hate. They express feelings of "strong disappointment" with Bush. Maybe it's because they recognize that the poor guy is an idiot, but I don't think so.

Has anyone else noticed this. Am I off base here?

Yeah, thats why there are so many on the right with "F: The Senator" stickers on their cars. So I guess its do as I say and not as I do with the left. And no, I don't hate Sen. Obama, Clinton, Pelosi. I disagree with their beliefs, but I don't hate them. I hate those on the right that do stupid things as well. I think Kennedy just sums up what is wrong with the social and political elite and career politicians in this country. Here is a man that rode his brother's coattails into office and had a catastrophic lapse in judgement. He claims he was in shock but was clearheaded enough to consult his lawyers and plan an alibi and devise a story of what happened. He's just scum. I hate scum. He was covering his @ss, while someone was dying.

I also find it humorous that you seem to imply in your post that its ok to hate Kennedy for his policies but can't hate him for being a low-life.

Nothing like a red-herring of racial slurs to distract the reader. And thats is relevant to this how? And you can prove this is a right wing problem how? I've honestly heard more of that out of people claiming to be democrats than I have republicans. But thats neither here nor there. Nice try at a racist association though.

TigerAl, I didn't realize that the only one that can think poorly of a person for their actions is the victim?

Whats wrong with hating someone? How do you even define hate? This isn't some sort of kumbaya session where we all must love each other. Not all hatred is wrong. Hatred for immoral actions is warranted. Since we are making religious references, even God turned His back on His own Son when he accepted the sin of the world.

And as for the disrespect. How have I disrespected you? I haven't resorted to name calling, personal insults, etc. There are those that do, but they ride both sides of the fence. I can almost guarantee that ELF and PETA members won't be voting republican this year. They are well known for their disrespect and even criminal activity. Just like extremist fundamentalist aren't going to vote for Obama (I'm thinking he'll get the nomination). You can't just lump everyone together.

As for moral judgement. Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black. A judgement on those passing judgement.

Nah. You're just another jackass. They all said so. You evil bastard. You should go to hell for hating Kennedy. It's been 41 years, he's reached sainthood now.

Anyone who even remotely tries to sidestep the issue of killer Teddy is a JACKASS in my book.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

I love how simply pointing out that you don't have to resort to bashing someone when they get rotten news like this gets twisted into "Teddy's a saint." Is everyone here incapable of thinking in any manner other than false dichotomy?

[aumd03 2]

I love how simply pointing out that you don't have to resort to bashing someone when they get rotten news like this gets twisted into "Teddy's a saint." Is everyone here incapable of thinking in any manner other than false dichotomy?

I think its jumping the gun. Just like automatically assuming someone dislikes Kennedy because he's a dem and they are conservative.

[TexasTiger 13,029]

Funny that you think you "know" me. From what I "know" of you, you seem like a fairly bright guy, but even bright guys may tend to react at a very surface level instead of engaging their brain. Actually, a couple of people on this thread, in addition to you, had more of a reaction than a thoughtful response to what I said.

I didn't actually state a moral equivalence between the two situations, and the comparison wasn't for political purposes, as you state. It was not my purpose to either diminish the responsibility of Kennedy for his actions that night and in the days that followed, nor to slam Laura Bush. Chappaquiddick has come up numerous times before on this forum, and I've never raised the tragedy that happened with Laura Welch Bush.

I was no fan of Jerry Falwell, by a long-shot. But when he died, I did not use that occasion to fire off a shot. In fact, my comment was very similar to my initial comment on this thread:

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...st&p=370425

After making my first comment on this thread:

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...st&p=491561

...and considering CCTAU's thread initiating post, now deleted, and this comment by aumd:

For some reason I'm reminded of a quote my mom always said. "Be sure your sins will seek you out." We've all got to go sometime, he's lived a full and long life. Much unlike his Ms. Kopechne

I felt a little disgusted that folks couldn't let this one thread pass without their judgments-- you know, give Teddy hell the next day if you must, but for the thread actually announcing his incurable cancer, just give it a rest. For almost forty years, there has been this visceral hatred of the man and his actions at Chappaquiddick have been a convenient reason to express it. And it occurred to me that if any well-known "librul" had recklessly run a stop sign and killed a young person, we would be constantly reminded of that regardless of the policy issue being discussed, Ann Coulter would have written a best seller about it and O'Reilley, Hannity and Rush would all be making a living off of it.

I've said this in the past:

Whatever Kennedy did that night was somewhere between very bad and unforgivable

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...st&p=212011

To elaborate, although we'll never know exactly what happened that night, it appears to me that two people who had been drinking, got into a car and drove off a bridge. After that, there's a ton of speculation, but what seems clear, at the least, is that Kennedy panicked and handled the aftermath of the accident very badly and dishonestly-- this is what I think most clearly sets his actions apart from others who may otherwise recklessly kill someone in a traffic accident. I have since believed that was a reflection of his character, at least at that point in his life, and was a key factor in assessing his candidacy for president 11 years later that I could not support. In short, I've never been a big Teddy fan.

That said, 39 years have since passed. During that time, the folks who may know him best, his Senate colleagues, appear to hold him in high regard-- even those who disagree with him strongly politically. He has often been able to work with Republicans on legislation and has earned the respect and affection of friends and foes alike. What does that say about him?

In my belief system, which I know you don't share, all of us will stand before God one day and answer for the lives we have lived. How will God judge Teddy? I have no idea. Neither do many of the folks here who seem to arrogantly think otherwise. Has he ever sincerely asked for God's forgiveness? I don't know, and neither does anyone here. What we do know, is that since saying this in 1991:

"I am painfully aware that the criticism directed at me in recent months involves far more than honest disagreements with my positions, or the usual criticism from the far right. It also involves the disappointment of friends and many others who rely on me to fight the good fight.

"To them I say: I recognize my own shortcomings -- the faults in the conduct of my private life. I realize that I alone am responsible for them, and I am the one who must confront them." He added, "I believe that each of us as individuals must not only struggle to make a better world, but to make ourselves better, too."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...753C1A967958260

...he seems to have stayed out of trouble. Did Teddy finally grow up at age 60? I don't know that either. I do know that he and his family recently found out he was dying. I know that his children, wife, and other friends and family are dealing with the impending loss of someone that they love and care deeply about.

But what have we seen on this thread announcing his terminal illness? A reminder that he cheated on a Spanish exam 57 years ago in 1951. A political shot on his cancer and his support for universal health care. Folks loved that little political use of his illness. Speculation on how libruls would respond to Conservatives being ill. A claim that the poor woman who died in his car that night was having an affair with him. We've had his illness called "karma". But you took issue with none of these comments. Not one. Instead, you chose my making the human point, not a political one, that, in regard to Laura Bush's tragic accident:

Even if she had panicked and tried to leave the scene-- though such behavior would have been inexcusable-- I would still choose to view her life as a whole, and not as being defined by a single night 40 years ago. That's my point.

It is clear that many folks here are so consumed by hatred of Kennedy that they can't even view him now from a human perspective. Sometimes, using a different scenario with other players to make the same point works. In this case, however, the hatred is too deep and the thoughts too shallow.

Someone please change Texas Tiger's tag to "Most Conceited"

The left always claims to be the side that embraces freedom and diversity of views. Freedom of choice, pro-choice, etc. But thats only until your view goes against theirs. Its the same principle that flies in the face of universal tolerance. Its tolerant of everyone but the intolerant.

They have no problem embracing a candidate that tolerates abortion, but how dare you criticize and not feel sympathy for a man that showed no remorse, blatant disregard for life over his own reputation and career, and a cold-heartedness that makes me angry. Yes I do feel hatred for the man. Do the same thing you recommend. Change the scenario. Place your family member in that car and see how it makes you feel.

I find that those always posing strawman arguments do so because it's the only "debate" they can win-- one with themselves.

I never said that you couldn't criticize him or that you must feel sympathy for him. I just don't understand why you can just let the one thread announcing his illness go by without expressing your hatred for him.

I felt a little disgusted that folks couldn't let this one thread pass without their judgments-- you know, give Teddy hell the next day if you must, but for the thread actually announcing his incurable cancer, just give it a rest.

Pretty simple, really. Not sure how that makes me conceited or intolerant. I think that what I was asking for was just basic human decency. Sorry you feel that my request went beyond your capabilities.

[SouthLink02 8]

I can feel the love in this thread

[TexasTiger 13,029]

I can feel the love in this thread

Then click here...

[tiger88 934]

Tell me you are not serious.

Laura Welch was 17 and was devastated that she killed a friend of hers by running a stop sign. Ted Kennedy was an adult (married, I seem to remember) and was having a horizontal party with his secretary and he left her in the water and did not alert anyone.

How can you expect anyone to take your political statements rationally, when you see very little difference, if any, between the two?

I didn't say there was no difference. You did indicate there were no similarities. If someone runs a stop sign and kills my child, my child is still dead due to someone's inexcusable, reckless behavior.

Kennedy's behavior that night was inexcusable. I've said that before on this forum. But the extreme hatred still visited on him almost 40 years later, even upon hearing he has a cancerous brain tumor, is indicative of a deeply disturbing level of hatred that has to have a very corrosive effect on a person's soul. That's my point.

I don't think ill of Laura Bush because of the tragedy of that young man's death, even though I can objectively say that her recklessness caused his death. Even if she had panicked and tried to leave the scene-- though such behavior would have been inexcusable-- I would still choose to view her life as a whole, and not as being defined by a single night 40 years ago. That's my point.

BTW, the rationality of my political arguments will rise and fall on their own merits, as will yours. However, I haven't found that the soundness of one's arguments tends to have much impact on this forum.

Tex, this is beyong pathetic on your part. Surely, after you come to your senses, you will retract. If not, you have really shown something about yourself here.

Instead of more vague histrionics, why don't you tell me specifically what in this post you find "beyond pathetic" and I can respond to you. I assume it is not this sentence:

Kennedy's behavior that night was inexcusable

The comparison of the two events as though they were equivalent for political purposes. Several people have pointed out the obvious of the complete classlessness of the remarks. Knowing you, you won't budge and admit it was a complete douchebag thing to do and thats fine. Blah blah on all you like about why it was okay, I'm sure for you it was. The action really speaks for itself and the more you try to defend it the funnier you look.

Funny that you think you "know" me. From what I "know" of you, you seem like a fairly bright guy, but even bright guys may tend to react at a very surface level instead of engaging their brain. Actually, a couple of people on this thread, in addition to you, had more of a reaction than a thoughtful response to what I said.

I didn't actually state a moral equivalence between the two situations, and the comparison wasn't for political purposes, as you state. It was not my purpose to either diminish the responsibility of Kennedy for his actions that night and in the days that followed, nor to slam Laura Bush. Chappaquiddick has come up numerous times before on this forum, and I've never raised the tragedy that happened with Laura Welch Bush.

I was no fan of Jerry Falwell, by a long-shot. But when he died, I did not use that occasion to fire off a shot. In fact, my comment was very similar to my initial comment on this thread:

1. I don't claim to "know" you. I just said the way you are using LB's accident to attempt to in some way validate something about kennedy really says something about you, and it does. Maybe your goals aren't political, but it sure looks that way, mainly because of the lengths you are going to to defend Kennedy here. Are you just a big fan of Ted and his personal life and this in no way involves your political views?

2. Yes, there are similarities between LB and Ted's accidents. They both involved cars and reckless drivers. It ends there and doesn't really merit comparison on this thread. Thats what you can't seem to understand. Lb was 17 yrs old and let he/she who is without sin (who never made a careless mistake as a teen or adult driver of this nature) cast the first stone. I was lucky as were most on this board and in the world. Our careless mistakes didn't result in major accidents and the death of a friend. I know that I personally had at least 2 or 3 close calls while a teen that could have resulted in bad accidents. Unfortunately for laura bush, when she ran the stop sign, the results were disastrous.

3. I haven't slammed kennedy at all on this thread other than to point out that your comparison of the two events was ridiculous. I agree that we could have had a kennedy thread w/o the slamming, but you know what? He made his bed and he can lie in it. Some obviously have extremely strong feelings about this. I have strong feelings about the entire chappaquiddick thing but wouldn't use this opportunity to trounce the guy. I don't like ted kennedy but I don't hate him.

4. The surface level reaction thing is off base. I reacted after thought on the subject and called it like I saw it. Whether or not you brought up LWB in the past is irrelevant. You did it here to attempt to cut kennedy some slack and to me that was deplorable. Could it be that there are very good reasons you never brought it up before (Like, for instance, it is an invalid comparison) , but got a little reactionary here yourself and lost control of your better judgement?

Unless you fire any zingers, i am done here, lol.

[TexasTiger 13,029]

Tell me you are not serious.

Laura Welch was 17 and was devastated that she killed a friend of hers by running a stop sign. Ted Kennedy was an adult (married, I seem to remember) and was having a horizontal party with his secretary and he left her in the water and did not alert anyone.

How can you expect anyone to take your political statements rationally, when you see very little difference, if any, between the two?

I didn't say there was no difference. You did indicate there were no similarities. If someone runs a stop sign and kills my child, my child is still dead due to someone's inexcusable, reckless behavior.

Kennedy's behavior that night was inexcusable. I've said that before on this forum. But the extreme hatred still visited on him almost 40 years later, even upon hearing he has a cancerous brain tumor, is indicative of a deeply disturbing level of hatred that has to have a very corrosive effect on a person's soul. That's my point.

I don't think ill of Laura Bush because of the tragedy of that young man's death, even though I can objectively say that her recklessness caused his death. Even if she had panicked and tried to leave the scene-- though such behavior would have been inexcusable-- I would still choose to view her life as a whole, and not as being defined by a single night 40 years ago. That's my point.

BTW, the rationality of my political arguments will rise and fall on their own merits, as will yours. However, I haven't found that the soundness of one's arguments tends to have much impact on this forum.

Tex, this is beyong pathetic on your part. Surely, after you come to your senses, you will retract. If not, you have really shown something about yourself here.

Instead of more vague histrionics, why don't you tell me specifically what in this post you find "beyond pathetic" and I can respond to you. I assume it is not this sentence:

Kennedy's behavior that night was inexcusable

The comparison of the two events as though they were equivalent for political purposes. Several people have pointed out the obvious of the complete classlessness of the remarks. Knowing you, you won't budge and admit it was a complete douchebag thing to do and thats fine. Blah blah on all you like about why it was okay, I'm sure for you it was. The action really speaks for itself and the more you try to defend it the funnier you look.

Funny that you think you "know" me. From what I "know" of you, you seem like a fairly bright guy, but even bright guys may tend to react at a very surface level instead of engaging their brain. Actually, a couple of people on this thread, in addition to you, had more of a reaction than a thoughtful response to what I said.

I didn't actually state a moral equivalence between the two situations, and the comparison wasn't for political purposes, as you state. It was not my purpose to either diminish the responsibility of Kennedy for his actions that night and in the days that followed, nor to slam Laura Bush. Chappaquiddick has come up numerous times before on this forum, and I've never raised the tragedy that happened with Laura Welch Bush.

I was no fan of Jerry Falwell, by a long-shot. But when he died, I did not use that occasion to fire off a shot. In fact, my comment was very similar to my initial comment on this thread:

1. I don't claim to "know" you. I just said the way you are using LB's accident to attempt to in some way validate something about kennedy really says something about you, and it does. Maybe your goals aren't political, but it sure looks that way, mainly because of the lengths you are going to to defend Kennedy here. Are you just a big fan of Ted and his personal life and this in no way involves your political views?

2. Yes, there are similarities between LB and Ted's accidents. They both involved cars and reckless drivers. It ends there and doesn't really merit comparison on this thread. Thats what you can't seem to understand. Lb was 17 yrs old and let he/she who is without sin (who never made a careless mistake as a teen or adult driver of this nature) cast the first stone. I was lucky as were most on this board and in the world. Our careless mistakes didn't result in major accidents and the death of a friend. I know that I personally had at least 2 or 3 close calls while a teen that could have resulted in bad accidents. Unfortunately for laura bush, when she ran the stop sign, the results were disastrous.

3. I haven't slammed kennedy at all on this thread other than to point out that your comparison of the two events was ridiculous. I agree that we could have had a kennedy thread w/o the slamming, but you know what? He made his bed and he can lie in it. Some obviously have extremely strong feelings about this. I have strong feelings about the entire chappaquiddick thing but wouldn't use this opportunity to trounce the guy. I don't like ted kennedy but I don't hate him.

4. The surface level reaction thing is off base. I reacted after thought on the subject and called it like I saw it. Whether or not you brought up LWB in the past is irrelevant. You did it here to attempt to cut kennedy some slack and to me that was deplorable. Could it be that there are very good reasons you never brought it up before (Like, for instance, it is an invalid comparison) , but got a little reactionary here yourself and lost control of your better judgement?

Unless you fire any zingers, i am done here, lol.

No real zingers, but if this is the best you've got after really thinking about it, I've pretty much concluded that your capacity for comprehension, regardless of what may be impacting it, probably doesn't warrant me wasting anymore time with you. If the best you can do is conclude from what I've written is that I'm a big Kennedy fan, you either haven't read what I wrote, or just can't think very well.

Take care.

[tiger88 934]

Tell me you are not serious.

Laura Welch was 17 and was devastated that she killed a friend of hers by running a stop sign. Ted Kennedy was an adult (married, I seem to remember) and was having a horizontal party with his secretary and he left her in the water and did not alert anyone.

How can you expect anyone to take your political statements rationally, when you see very little difference, if any, between the two?

I didn't say there was no difference. You did indicate there were no similarities. If someone runs a stop sign and kills my child, my child is still dead due to someone's inexcusable, reckless behavior.

Kennedy's behavior that night was inexcusable. I've said that before on this forum. But the extreme hatred still visited on him almost 40 years later, even upon hearing he has a cancerous brain tumor, is indicative of a deeply disturbing level of hatred that has to have a very corrosive effect on a person's soul. That's my point.

I don't think ill of Laura Bush because of the tragedy of that young man's death, even though I can objectively say that her recklessness caused his death. Even if she had panicked and tried to leave the scene-- though such behavior would have been inexcusable-- I would still choose to view her life as a whole, and not as being defined by a single night 40 years ago. That's my point.

BTW, the rationality of my political arguments will rise and fall on their own merits, as will yours. However, I haven't found that the soundness of one's arguments tends to have much impact on this forum.

Tex, this is beyong pathetic on your part. Surely, after you come to your senses, you will retract. If not, you have really shown something about yourself here.

Instead of more vague histrionics, why don't you tell me specifically what in this post you find "beyond pathetic" and I can respond to you. I assume it is not this sentence:

Kennedy's behavior that night was inexcusable

The comparison of the two events as though they were equivalent for political purposes. Several people have pointed out the obvious of the complete classlessness of the remarks. Knowing you, you won't budge and admit it was a complete douchebag thing to do and thats fine. Blah blah on all you like about why it was okay, I'm sure for you it was. The action really speaks for itself and the more you try to defend it the funnier you look.

Funny that you think you "know" me. From what I "know" of you, you seem like a fairly bright guy, but even bright guys may tend to react at a very surface level instead of engaging their brain. Actually, a couple of people on this thread, in addition to you, had more of a reaction than a thoughtful response to what I said.

I didn't actually state a moral equivalence between the two situations, and the comparison wasn't for political purposes, as you state. It was not my purpose to either diminish the responsibility of Kennedy for his actions that night and in the days that followed, nor to slam Laura Bush. Chappaquiddick has come up numerous times before on this forum, and I've never raised the tragedy that happened with Laura Welch Bush.

I was no fan of Jerry Falwell, by a long-shot. But when he died, I did not use that occasion to fire off a shot. In fact, my comment was very similar to my initial comment on this thread:

1. I don't claim to "know" you. I just said the way you are using LB's accident to attempt to in some way validate something about kennedy really says something about you, and it does. Maybe your goals aren't political, but it sure looks that way, mainly because of the lengths you are going to to defend Kennedy here. Are you just a big fan of Ted and his personal life and this in no way involves your political views?

2. Yes, there are similarities between LB and Ted's accidents. They both involved cars and reckless drivers. It ends there and doesn't really merit comparison on this thread. Thats what you can't seem to understand. Lb was 17 yrs old and let he/she who is without sin (who never made a careless mistake as a teen or adult driver of this nature) cast the first stone. I was lucky as were most on this board and in the world. Our careless mistakes didn't result in major accidents and the death of a friend. I know that I personally had at least 2 or 3 close calls while a teen that could have resulted in bad accidents. Unfortunately for laura bush, when she ran the stop sign, the results were disastrous.

3. I haven't slammed kennedy at all on this thread other than to point out that your comparison of the two events was ridiculous. I agree that we could have had a kennedy thread w/o the slamming, but you know what? He made his bed and he can lie in it. Some obviously have extremely strong feelings about this. I have strong feelings about the entire chappaquiddick thing but wouldn't use this opportunity to trounce the guy. I don't like ted kennedy but I don't hate him.

4. The surface level reaction thing is off base. I reacted after thought on the subject and called it like I saw it. Whether or not you brought up LWB in the past is irrelevant. You did it here to attempt to cut kennedy some slack and to me that was deplorable. Could it be that there are very good reasons you never brought it up before (Like, for instance, it is an invalid comparison) , but got a little reactionary here yourself and lost control of your better judgement?

Unless you fire any zingers, i am done here, lol.

No real zingers, but if this is the best you've got after really thinking about it, I've pretty much concluded that your capacity for comprehension, regardless of what may be impacting it, probably doesn't warrant me wasting anymore time with you. If the best you can do is conclude from what I've written is that I'm a big Kennedy fan, you either haven't read what I wrote, or just can't think very well.

Take care.

LOL! Thanks Tex. Don't blame you for backing out of this one in a classless manner, as usual. (i.e. "No real zingers", then firing a few of them). Take all the cheapshots at my intellect that you like. It is a sign of your complete loss of a leg to stand on. Never said you were a big kennedy fan by the way. That was your reactionary misinterpretation, but I forgive you. I can tell you've gotten a little huffy here.

[TexasTiger 13,029]

LOL! Thanks Tex. Don't blame you for backing out of this one in a classless manner, as usual. (i.e. "No real zingers", then firing a few of them). Take all the cheapshots at my intellect that you like. It is a sign of your complete loss of a leg to stand on. Never said you were a big kennedy fan by the way. That was your reactionary misinterpretation, but I forgive you. I can tell you've gotten a little huffy here.

I consider "zingers" as something a little more colorful and creative than simple statements of fact.

You're awfully thin skinned for someone who started this whole exchange by calling me "beyond pathetic.". My attempts to communicate with you since then have been less successful than if I was trying to communicate with my dog. Not that he would understand any more than you do, but at least he isn't arrogant about his limitations. I used to assume you were a fairly bright guy who was just intellectually lazy, but at least I'm willing to admit that I was wrong. You've got to respect that, right?

What the heck, though, I'll forgive you, too. Have a great weekend!

[Wishbone 0]

There was a rumor that Kennedy's secretary was pregnant and that he purposely drove into the water to get rid of her. Also, Kennedy was the guy behind the immigration reform of the 60's that opened up our country to third world immigration.

One hell of a scumbag if you ask me.

[Tigermike 3,055]

There was a rumor that Kennedy's secretary was pregnant and that he purposely drove into the water to get rid of her. Also, Kennedy was the guy behind the immigration reform of the 60's that opened up our country to third world immigration.

One hell of a scumbag if you ask me.

I think if there was any fact to the rumor of his secretary being pregnant, it would have been public knowledge by now.

A little insensitive, but he makes a good point.

"As a physician, I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone. But now that Senator Ted Kennedy has been diagnosed with a malignant brain tumor, I wonder which country with morally superior "universal health care" he'll go to for his treatment? Will it be Canada, the UK, or Cuba?"

link

[TexasTiger 13,029]

There was a rumor that Kennedy's secretary was pregnant and that he purposely drove into the water to get rid of her. Also, Kennedy was the guy behind the immigration reform of the 60's that opened up our country to third world immigration.

One hell of a scumbag if you ask me.

I think if there was any fact to the rumor of his secretary being pregnant, it would have been public knowledge by now.

A little insensitive, but he makes a good point.

"As a physician, I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone. But now that Senator Ted Kennedy has been diagnosed with a malignant brain tumor, I wonder which country with morally superior "universal health care" he'll go to for his treatment? Will it be Canada, the UK, or Cuba?"

link

Do you have a link with Kennedy saying we should emulate any of those systems?

[tiger88 934]

LOL! Thanks Tex. Don't blame you for backing out of this one in a classless manner, as usual. (i.e. "No real zingers", then firing a few of them). Take all the cheapshots at my intellect that you like. It is a sign of your complete loss of a leg to stand on. Never said you were a big kennedy fan by the way. That was your reactionary misinterpretation, but I forgive you. I can tell you've gotten a little huffy here.

I consider "zingers" as something a little more colorful and creative than simple statements of fact.

You're awfully thin skinned for someone who started this whole exchange by calling me "beyond pathetic.". My attempts to communicate with you since then have been less successful than if I was trying to communicate with my dog. Not that he would understand any more than you do, but at least he isn't arrogant about his limitations. I used to assume you were a fairly bright guy who was just intellectually lazy, but at least I'm willing to admit that I was wrong. You've got to respect that, right?

What the heck, though, I'll forgive you, too. Have a great weekend!

Oh, whatever Tex! It's always funny to see you go into insult mode here. I'm never sure which is the bigger factor in your attacks, arrogance or insecurity. Probably insecurity disguised as arrogance as in most cases. No leg to stand on here so you go into insult mode. Par for the course. Afa the beyong pathetic part, it was. That's why you're so pi$$y here. Inside, you know it.

Have a nice weekend too.

[TexasTiger 13,029]

LOL! Thanks Tex. Don't blame you for backing out of this one in a classless manner, as usual. (i.e. "No real zingers", then firing a few of them). Take all the cheapshots at my intellect that you like. It is a sign of your complete loss of a leg to stand on. Never said you were a big kennedy fan by the way. That was your reactionary misinterpretation, but I forgive you. I can tell you've gotten a little huffy here.

I consider "zingers" as something a little more colorful and creative than simple statements of fact.

You're awfully thin skinned for someone who started this whole exchange by calling me "beyond pathetic.". My attempts to communicate with you since then have been less successful than if I was trying to communicate with my dog. Not that he would understand any more than you do, but at least he isn't arrogant about his limitations. I used to assume you were a fairly bright guy who was just intellectually lazy, but at least I'm willing to admit that I was wrong. You've got to respect that, right?

What the heck, though, I'll forgive you, too. Have a great weekend!

Oh, whatever Tex! It's always funny to see you go into insult mode here. I'm never sure which is the bigger factor in your attacks, arrogance or insecurity. Probably insecurity disguised as arrogance as in most cases. No leg to stand on here so you go into insult mode. Par for the course. Afa the beyong pathetic part, it was. That's why you're so pi$$y here. Inside, you know it.

Have a nice weekend too.

You're projecting. Your very first post to me on this thread was an attack, not an attempt at dialogue, and since then you've been whining incessantly about why I would possibly attack you. If you can't take what you dish out, you should probably stick to needlepoint, Susie.

[tiger88 934]

LOL! Thanks Tex. Don't blame you for backing out of this one in a classless manner, as usual. (i.e. "No real zingers", then firing a few of them). Take all the cheapshots at my intellect that you like. It is a sign of your complete loss of a leg to stand on. Never said you were a big kennedy fan by the way. That was your reactionary misinterpretation, but I forgive you. I can tell you've gotten a little huffy here.

I consider "zingers" as something a little more colorful and creative than simple statements of fact.

You're awfully thin skinned for someone who started this whole exchange by calling me "beyond pathetic.". My attempts to communicate with you since then have been less successful than if I was trying to communicate with my dog. Not that he would understand any more than you do, but at least he isn't arrogant about his limitations. I used to assume you were a fairly bright guy who was just intellectually lazy, but at least I'm willing to admit that I was wrong. You've got to respect that, right?

What the heck, though, I'll forgive you, too. Have a great weekend!

Oh, whatever Tex! It's always funny to see you go into insult mode here. I'm never sure which is the bigger factor in your attacks, arrogance or insecurity. Probably insecurity disguised as arrogance as in most cases. No leg to stand on here so you go into insult mode. Par for the course. Afa the beyong pathetic part, it was. That's why you're so pi$$y here. Inside, you know it.

Have a nice weekend too.

You're projecting. Your very first post to me on this thread was an attack, not an attempt at dialogue, and since then you've been whining incessantly about why I would possibly attack you. If you can't take what you dish out, you should probably stick to needlepoint, Susie.

I can take anything you can dish out tex and I haven't whined a bit, just commented. Any percieved whining is your wishful thinking. This has really been fun. For the record, I attacked what you said and not you. I did mention that it said something about you, and it did, but I never even said what it said. One thing I have learned about you over the years here is you really try to go for the throat when you get pi$$y. It used to bother me, now it amuses me. It is usually a sign of the weakness of your argument and the insecurity that results from that. That is definitely the case here because your comparison was weak and pathetic, no doubt. You know it. several others recognized it and commented as well. You weren't as pi$$y about it at first then as I continued to point out the obvious out comes your little kitty claws, lol.

[TexasTiger 13,029]

LOL! Thanks Tex. Don't blame you for backing out of this one in a classless manner, as usual. (i.e. "No real zingers", then firing a few of them). Take all the cheapshots at my intellect that you like. It is a sign of your complete loss of a leg to stand on. Never said you were a big kennedy fan by the way. That was your reactionary misinterpretation, but I forgive you. I can tell you've gotten a little huffy here.

I consider "zingers" as something a little more colorful and creative than simple statements of fact.

You're awfully thin skinned for someone who started this whole exchange by calling me "beyond pathetic.". My attempts to communicate with you since then have been less successful than if I was trying to communicate with my dog. Not that he would understand any more than you do, but at least he isn't arrogant about his limitations. I used to assume you were a fairly bright guy who was just intellectually lazy, but at least I'm willing to admit that I was wrong. You've got to respect that, right?

What the heck, though, I'll forgive you, too. Have a great weekend!

Oh, whatever Tex! It's always funny to see you go into insult mode here. I'm never sure which is the bigger factor in your attacks, arrogance or insecurity. Probably insecurity disguised as arrogance as in most cases. No leg to stand on here so you go into insult mode. Par for the course. Afa the beyong pathetic part, it was. That's why you're so pi$$y here. Inside, you know it.

Have a nice weekend too.

You're projecting. Your very first post to me on this thread was an attack, not an attempt at dialogue, and since then you've been whining incessantly about why I would possibly attack you. If you can't take what you dish out, you should probably stick to needlepoint, Susie.

I can take anything you can dish out tex and I haven't whined a bit, just commented. Any percieved whining is your wishful thinking. This has really been fun. For the record, I attacked what you said and not you. I did mention that it said something about you, and it did, but I never even said what it said. One thing I have learned about you over the years here is you really try to go for the throat when you get pi$$y. It used to bother me, now it amuses me. It is usually a sign of the weakness of your argument and the insecurity that results from that. That is definitely the case here because your comparison was weak and pathetic, no doubt. You know it. several others recognized it and commented as well. You weren't as pi$$y about it at first then as I continued to point out the obvious out comes your little kitty claws, lol.

What you can't take is an actual discussion. You're correct that I first attempted to largely look past your attack and engage you in an actual discussion. I wanted to assume you were capable of having one. You've clearly demonstrated that you're not. You start pissy and end pissy. It's all you've got. Glad you're proud of it.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend.

[tiger88 934]

LOL! Thanks Tex. Don't blame you for backing out of this one in a classless manner, as usual. (i.e. "No real zingers", then firing a few of them). Take all the cheapshots at my intellect that you like. It is a sign of your complete loss of a leg to stand on. Never said you were a big kennedy fan by the way. That was your reactionary misinterpretation, but I forgive you. I can tell you've gotten a little huffy here.

I consider "zingers" as something a little more colorful and creative than simple statements of fact.

You're awfully thin skinned for someone who started this whole exchange by calling me "beyond pathetic.". My attempts to communicate with you since then have been less successful than if I was trying to communicate with my dog. Not that he would understand any more than you do, but at least he isn't arrogant about his limitations. I used to assume you were a fairly bright guy who was just intellectually lazy, but at least I'm willing to admit that I was wrong. You've got to respect that, right?

What the heck, though, I'll forgive you, too. Have a great weekend!

Oh, whatever Tex! It's always funny to see you go into insult mode here. I'm never sure which is the bigger factor in your attacks, arrogance or insecurity. Probably insecurity disguised as arrogance as in most cases. No leg to stand on here so you go into insult mode. Par for the course. Afa the beyong pathetic part, it was. That's why you're so pi$$y here. Inside, you know it.

Have a nice weekend too.

You're projecting. Your very first post to me on this thread was an attack, not an attempt at dialogue, and since then you've been whining incessantly about why I would possibly attack you. If you can't take what you dish out, you should probably stick to needlepoint, Susie.

I can take anything you can dish out tex and I haven't whined a bit, just commented. Any percieved whining is your wishful thinking. This has really been fun. For the record, I attacked what you said and not you. I did mention that it said something about you, and it did, but I never even said what it said. One thing I have learned about you over the years here is you really try to go for the throat when you get pi$$y. It used to bother me, now it amuses me. It is usually a sign of the weakness of your argument and the insecurity that results from that. That is definitely the case here because your comparison was weak and pathetic, no doubt. You know it. several others recognized it and commented as well. You weren't as pi$$y about it at first then as I continued to point out the obvious out comes your little kitty claws, lol.

What you can't take is an actual discussion. You're correct that I first attempted to largely look past your attack and engage you in an actual discussion. I wanted to assume you were capable of having one. You've clearly demonstrated that you're not. You start pissy and end pissy. It's all you've got. Glad you're proud of it.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend.

Wee bit thenthitive aren't we? Me, pissy? Talk about projection. That's nearly as funny as you accusing me of being intellectually arrogant. That goes beyond projection if that is possible.

Very capable of discussions here tex. I've found they work out much better when one of the two involved (that would be you) doesn't get all sensitive when they are holding the weak end of a debate and resort to grade school type stuff. Thats cool though tex, we've come to expect such petty stuff from you when get mad and or are in the wrong and can't admit it as usual.

Peace brother.

[LegalEagle 22]

As usual, in this forum, differences of opinion cannot conclude with anything other than personal attacks. What a pity.

Kennedy has had a checkered past. (Since no one bothered to explore his work in Congress)

Kennedy is a human being.

A human being suffering from inoperable brain cancer is a sad thing.

That wraps it up for me without having to mention you mental midgets.