Ted Kennedy

[aumd03 2]

I am in no way celebrating the prognosis for Sen. Kennedy, but I have a question.

Does anyone here think there would not be outright celebrations if Pres. Bush or VP Cheney or Karl Rove were to become ill?

[LegalEagle 22]

I am in no way celebrating the prognosis for Sen. Kennedy, but I have a question.

Does anyone here think there would not be outright celebrations if Pres. Bush or VP Cheney or Karl Rove were to become ill?

Yes.

[CCTAU 3,350]

All you guys that disagree with my "jackassedness", can kiss my foot. There are many folks who call it what it is. Too bad you self-righteous turds allow a killer to have more sympathy than the victim.

If you ever have tragedy hit your family like hit the Kopechne's, I hope folks don't line up to support the killer. It might just change your perspective. But for now, rule away with your golden hand. I have stated my opinion and others agree. I guess we all are just not as "christian" as you guys. Thanks for reminding us.

[WinCrimson 61]

I am in no way celebrating the prognosis for Sen. Kennedy, but I have a question.

Does anyone here think there would not be outright celebrations if Pres. Bush or VP Cheney or Karl Rove were to become ill?

Sure. That by no means justifies it, though.

Every side has a CCTAU. I'll just never be that person. Neither Reagan's Alzheimers or Kennedy's brain cancer is funny.

My take is that if you're not crazy about a politician, like I was in regards to Strom Thurmond, at least show the man the decency by shutting your mouth and avoid exposing yourself for the fool you are.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

All you guys that disagree with my "jackassedness", can kiss my foot. There are many folks who call it what it is. Too bad you self-righteous turds allow a killer to have more sympathy than the victim.

If you ever have tragedy hit your family like hit the Kopechne's, I hope folks don't line up to support the killer. It might just change your perspective. But for now, rule away with your golden hand. I have stated my opinion and others agree. I guess we all are just not as "christian" as you guys. Thanks for reminding us.

You're welcome.

People who think for more than two seconds before blurting out nonsense realize that it's actually possible to have sympathy for more than one person at a time. We even realize that we can have more sympathy for one than the other, but in doing so we manage not to diminish our sympathy for either one. It's that crazy notion that everything in this world isn't an either/or proposition.

I've had tragedy hit my family at the hands of others. I've had tragedy hit the families of close friends. But I do myself no favors carrying some torch for hating people. No one said you had to go cry and wail and go play tonsil hockey with him in the hospital room. Simply refraining from being an jackass would have sufficed. In your case all it would have taken was not saying anything.

[TexasTiger 13,028]

Tell me you are not serious.

Laura Welch was 17 and was devastated that she killed a friend of hers by running a stop sign. Ted Kennedy was an adult (married, I seem to remember) and was having a horizontal party with his secretary and he left her in the water and did not alert anyone.

How can you expect anyone to take your political statements rationally, when you see very little difference, if any, between the two?

I didn't say there was no difference. You did indicate there were no similarities. If someone runs a stop sign and kills my child, my child is still dead due to someone's inexcusable, reckless behavior.

Kennedy's behavior that night was inexcusable. I've said that before on this forum. But the extreme hatred still visited on him almost 40 years later, even upon hearing he has a cancerous brain tumor, is indicative of a deeply disturbing level of hatred that has to have a very corrosive effect on a person's soul. That's my point.

I don't think ill of Laura Bush because of the tragedy of that young man's death, even though I can objectively say that her recklessness caused his death. Even if she had panicked and tried to leave the scene-- though such behavior would have been inexcusable-- I would still choose to view her life as a whole, and not as being defined by a single night 40 years ago. That's my point.

BTW, the rationality of my political arguments will rise and fall on their own merits, as will yours. However, I haven't found that the soundness of one's arguments tends to have much impact on this forum.

You have obviously had the luxury of never having an immediate family member die at the hands of a drunk driver, or else you might understand with the slightest tinge of decency how MANY people feel about that blow hard Ted Kennedy. I haven't seen anyone make a deplorable statement about him, only that they do not feel sorry for him. That is all, and it is un-politically motivated, unlike your assessment of a 17-year old girl. You have said some pretty stupid things before, and some really insightful statements as well, but your trying to make something political where it doesn't belong is completely wrong on all levels. Period.

Another histrionic rant. There are many people who have lost family and friends to drunk drivers who do not share the hatred of Ted Kennedy you reference. That is as ridiculous as people who have loved ones killed by drivers running stop signs projecting their anger and hatred onto Laura Bush. I personally kinda like Laura Bush, and suspect if anyone hates her, it is pathologically politically motivated. If you think the hatred of Ted Kennedy is not politically motivated, you're fooling yourself. If you haven't seen that hatred on this forum, it is because your own hatred blinds you to it. No one need to express any sympathy they don't feel for the guy. But on the day it is announced that he has an inoperable brain tumor, they can just let it pass.

You fail to get the point. Again.

[TexasTiger 13,028]

Tell me you are not serious.

Laura Welch was 17 and was devastated that she killed a friend of hers by running a stop sign. Ted Kennedy was an adult (married, I seem to remember) and was having a horizontal party with his secretary and he left her in the water and did not alert anyone.

How can you expect anyone to take your political statements rationally, when you see very little difference, if any, between the two?

I didn't say there was no difference. You did indicate there were no similarities. If someone runs a stop sign and kills my child, my child is still dead due to someone's inexcusable, reckless behavior.

Kennedy's behavior that night was inexcusable. I've said that before on this forum. But the extreme hatred still visited on him almost 40 years later, even upon hearing he has a cancerous brain tumor, is indicative of a deeply disturbing level of hatred that has to have a very corrosive effect on a person's soul. That's my point.

I don't think ill of Laura Bush because of the tragedy of that young man's death, even though I can objectively say that her recklessness caused his death. Even if she had panicked and tried to leave the scene-- though such behavior would have been inexcusable-- I would still choose to view her life as a whole, and not as being defined by a single night 40 years ago. That's my point.

BTW, the rationality of my political arguments will rise and fall on their own merits, as will yours. However, I haven't found that the soundness of one's arguments tends to have much impact on this forum.

Tex, this is beyong pathetic on your part. Surely, after you come to your senses, you will retract. If not, you have really shown something about yourself here.

Instead of more vague histrionics, why don't you tell me specifically what in this post you find "beyond pathetic" and I can respond to you. I assume it is not this sentence:

Kennedy's behavior that night was inexcusable

[Shire5k 19]

All you guys that disagree with my "jackassedness", can kiss my foot. There are many folks who call it what it is. Too bad you self-righteous turds allow a killer to have more sympathy than the victim.

If you ever have tragedy hit your family like hit the Kopechne's, I hope folks don't line up to support the killer. It might just change your perspective. But for now, rule away with your golden hand. I have stated my opinion and others agree. I guess we all are just not as "christian" as you guys. Thanks for reminding us.

It happened FOUR DECADES AGO. Why are you still angry about it? Actually, how old were you when it happened? Old enough to care?

[DKW 86 7,441]

All you guys that disagree with my "jackassedness", can kiss my foot. There are many folks who call it what it is. Too bad you self-righteous turds allow a killer to have more sympathy than the victim.

If you ever have tragedy hit your family like hit the Kopechne's, I hope folks don't line up to support the killer. It might just change your perspective. But for now, rule away with your golden hand. I have stated my opinion and others agree. I guess we all are just not as "christian" as you guys. Thanks for reminding us.

It happened FOUR DECADES AGO. Why are you still angry about it? Actually, how old were you when it happened? Old enough to care?

Four decades ago? What has that got to do with the INJUSTICE of it? Kennedy killed a girl with his drunkeness, his weaselly behavior (not trying to save her, not getting her ANY help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), lying to everyone in America about it, etc. No real investigation into the accident. The Kopechnes have gotten nothing concerning justice with this wealthy, Harvard educated, privileged, liberal, democratic party blowhard.

Find me one Democrat in America that ever gave one damn about Marijo and maybe I would consider joining back. What are WE still angry about? It is that with the Democratic Party, the Libs in America, that Party Loyalty Trumps Justice. You have it exactly backward!

[Shire5k 19]

All you guys that disagree with my "jackassedness", can kiss my foot. There are many folks who call it what it is. Too bad you self-righteous turds allow a killer to have more sympathy than the victim.

If you ever have tragedy hit your family like hit the Kopechne's, I hope folks don't line up to support the killer. It might just change your perspective. But for now, rule away with your golden hand. I have stated my opinion and others agree. I guess we all are just not as "christian" as you guys. Thanks for reminding us.

It happened FOUR DECADES AGO. Why are you still angry about it? Actually, how old were you when it happened? Old enough to care?

Four decades ago? What has that got to do with the INJUSTICE of it? Kennedy killed a girl with his drunkeness, his weaselly behavior (not trying to save her, not getting her ANY help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), lying to everyone in America about it, etc. No real investigation into the accident. The Kopechnes have gotten nothing concerning justice with this wealthy, Harvard educated, privileged, liberal, democratic party blowhard.

Find me one Democrat in America that ever gave one damn about Marijo and maybe I would consider joining back. What are WE still angry about? It is that with the Democratic Party, the Libs in America, that Party Loyalty Trumps Justice. You have it exactly backward!

OK, I see your point. Yeah, it was a scumbag thing to do...I guess I'm just seeing it through the eyes of someone who was 16 years away from being born at the time...it just doesn't seem real to me. But, now that it IS 40 years later, and the Senator has children and a wife...thinking it's some sweet justice or karma or something seems pretty scumbaggy too.

I dunno, I don't like Kennedy, I never have, but I sure don't wish a brain tumor on him and his family.

[tiger88 934]

Tell me you are not serious.

Laura Welch was 17 and was devastated that she killed a friend of hers by running a stop sign. Ted Kennedy was an adult (married, I seem to remember) and was having a horizontal party with his secretary and he left her in the water and did not alert anyone.

How can you expect anyone to take your political statements rationally, when you see very little difference, if any, between the two?

I didn't say there was no difference. You did indicate there were no similarities. If someone runs a stop sign and kills my child, my child is still dead due to someone's inexcusable, reckless behavior.

Kennedy's behavior that night was inexcusable. I've said that before on this forum. But the extreme hatred still visited on him almost 40 years later, even upon hearing he has a cancerous brain tumor, is indicative of a deeply disturbing level of hatred that has to have a very corrosive effect on a person's soul. That's my point.

I don't think ill of Laura Bush because of the tragedy of that young man's death, even though I can objectively say that her recklessness caused his death. Even if she had panicked and tried to leave the scene-- though such behavior would have been inexcusable-- I would still choose to view her life as a whole, and not as being defined by a single night 40 years ago. That's my point.

BTW, the rationality of my political arguments will rise and fall on their own merits, as will yours. However, I haven't found that the soundness of one's arguments tends to have much impact on this forum.

Tex, this is beyong pathetic on your part. Surely, after you come to your senses, you will retract. If not, you have really shown something about yourself here.

Instead of more vague histrionics, why don't you tell me specifically what in this post you find "beyond pathetic" and I can respond to you. I assume it is not this sentence:

Kennedy's behavior that night was inexcusable

The comparison of the two events as though they were equivalent for political purposes. Several people have pointed out the obvious of the complete classlessness of the remarks. Knowing you, you won't budge and admit it was a complete douchebag thing to do and thats fine. Blah blah on all you like about why it was okay, I'm sure for you it was. The action really speaks for itself and the more you try to defend it the funnier you look.

[aumd03 2]

All you guys that disagree with my "jackassedness", can kiss my foot. There are many folks who call it what it is. Too bad you self-righteous turds allow a killer to have more sympathy than the victim.

If you ever have tragedy hit your family like hit the Kopechne's, I hope folks don't line up to support the killer. It might just change your perspective. But for now, rule away with your golden hand. I have stated my opinion and others agree. I guess we all are just not as "christian" as you guys. Thanks for reminding us.

It happened FOUR DECADES AGO. Why are you still angry about it? Actually, how old were you when it happened? Old enough to care?

Four decades ago? What has that got to do with the INJUSTICE of it? Kennedy killed a girl with his drunkeness, his weaselly behavior (not trying to save her, not getting her ANY help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), lying to everyone in America about it, etc. No real investigation into the accident. The Kopechnes have gotten nothing concerning justice with this wealthy, Harvard educated, privileged, liberal, democratic party blowhard.

Find me one Democrat in America that ever gave one damn about Marijo and maybe I would consider joining back. What are WE still angry about? It is that with the Democratic Party, the Libs in America, that Party Loyalty Trumps Justice. You have it exactly backward!

Actually, I think he was kicked out of Harvard for cheating if I remember correctly.

[CCTAU 3,350]

All you guys that disagree with my "jackassedness", can kiss my foot. There are many folks who call it what it is. Too bad you self-righteous turds allow a killer to have more sympathy than the victim.

If you ever have tragedy hit your family like hit the Kopechne's, I hope folks don't line up to support the killer. It might just change your perspective. But for now, rule away with your golden hand. I have stated my opinion and others agree. I guess we all are just not as "christian" as you guys. Thanks for reminding us.

It happened FOUR DECADES AGO. Why are you still angry about it? Actually, how old were you when it happened? Old enough to care?

Four decades ago? What has that got to do with the INJUSTICE of it? Kennedy killed a girl with his drunkeness, his weaselly behavior (not trying to save her, not getting her ANY help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), lying to everyone in America about it, etc. No real investigation into the accident. The Kopechnes have gotten nothing concerning justice with this wealthy, Harvard educated, privileged, liberal, democratic party blowhard.

Find me one Democrat in America that ever gave one damn about Marijo and maybe I would consider joining back. What are WE still angry about? It is that with the Democratic Party, the Libs in America, that Party Loyalty Trumps Justice. You have it exactly backward!

Actually, I think he was kicked out of Harvard for cheating if I remember correctly.

I wonder if this would be a great opportunity for him to show full support for universal health care? He could go to Canada and get treated.

[abrnfanatc 6]

All you guys that disagree with my "jackassedness", can kiss my foot. There are many folks who call it what it is. Too bad you self-righteous turds allow a killer to have more sympathy than the victim.

If you ever have tragedy hit your family like hit the Kopechne's, I hope folks don't line up to support the killer. It might just change your perspective. But for now, rule away with your golden hand. I have stated my opinion and others agree. I guess we all are just not as "christian" as you guys. Thanks for reminding us.

It happened FOUR DECADES AGO. Why are you still angry about it? Actually, how old were you when it happened? Old enough to care?

Four decades ago? What has that got to do with the INJUSTICE of it? Kennedy killed a girl with his drunkeness, his weaselly behavior (not trying to save her, not getting her ANY help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), lying to everyone in America about it, etc. No real investigation into the accident. The Kopechnes have gotten nothing concerning justice with this wealthy, Harvard educated, privileged, liberal, democratic party blowhard.

Find me one Democrat in America that ever gave one damn about Marijo and maybe I would consider joining back. What are WE still angry about? It is that with the Democratic Party, the Libs in America, that Party Loyalty Trumps Justice. You have it exactly backward!

Actually, I think he was kicked out of Harvard for cheating if I remember correctly.

I wonder if this would be a great opportunity for him to show full support for universal health care? He could go to Canada and get treated.

That's a great idea. He can show America just how wonderful the Democratic healthcare model works.

[jw 4 au 526]

Another histrionic rant. There are many people who have lost family and friends to drunk drivers who do not share the hatred of Ted Kennedy you reference. That is as ridiculous as people who have loved ones killed by drivers running stop signs projecting their anger and hatred onto Laura Bush. I personally kinda like Laura Bush, and suspect if anyone hates her, it is pathologically politically motivated. If you think the hatred of Ted Kennedy is not politically motivated, you're fooling yourself. If you haven't seen that hatred on this forum, it is because your own hatred blinds you to it. No one need to express any sympathy they don't feel for the guy. But on the day it is announced that he has an inoperable brain tumor, they can just let it pass.

You fail to get the point. Again.

Re-read those two sentences above...you, sir, are the one who completely fails to get the point. Seriously, it is as if you probably do actually understand the underlying gravity and cause of each situation, but are being hard headed for political reasons. The man is and has always been a joke to probably 75% of society, excluding the state of Massachusetts. Even my dad, a lifelong Democrat (and staunch Jimmy Carter loyalist) can't stand the sight of the guy. Both parties have their jackasses, so it's not like you leave the party altogether for the buffoonery of one individual. Your point would only be morally valid if he paid his debt to society like a man, but he did not. Instead, he has lead a free life as a Democratic policy maker in the U.S. Senate. That's is messed up if you ask me. I feel nothing for the man, however I do feel greatly for those innocent of the situation, his children and grandchildren are potentially losing a father and grandfather.

As a counterpoint to make is crystal clear for you, there was no debt to society required from a 17 year old Laura Welch in that situation detailed in the article posted.

[DKW 86 7,441]

All you guys that disagree with my "jackassedness", can kiss my foot. There are many folks who call it what it is. Too bad you self-righteous turds allow a killer to have more sympathy than the victim.

If you ever have tragedy hit your family like hit the Kopechne's, I hope folks don't line up to support the killer. It might just change your perspective. But for now, rule away with your golden hand. I have stated my opinion and others agree. I guess we all are just not as "christian" as you guys. Thanks for reminding us.

It happened FOUR DECADES AGO. Why are you still angry about it? Actually, how old were you when it happened? Old enough to care?

Four decades ago? What has that got to do with the INJUSTICE of it? Kennedy killed a girl with his drunkeness, his weaselly behavior (not trying to save her, not getting her ANY help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), lying to everyone in America about it, etc. No real investigation into the accident. The Kopechnes have gotten nothing concerning justice with this wealthy, Harvard educated, privileged, liberal, democratic party blowhard.

Find me one Democrat in America that ever gave one damn about Marijo and maybe I would consider joining back. What are WE still angry about? It is that with the Democratic Party, the Libs in America, that Party Loyalty Trumps Justice. You have it exactly backward!

Actually, I think he was kicked out of Harvard for cheating if I remember correctly.

I wonder if this would be a great opportunity for him to show full support for universal health care? He could go to Canada and get treated.

Post of the Day!

[LegalEagle 22]

The detailed scoop on Mary Jo and Teddy - and the wreck.

http://www.ytedk.com/chapter1.htm

Enjoy.

[TexasTiger 13,028]

As a counterpoint to make is crystal clear for you, there was no debt to society required from a 17 year old Laura Welch in that situation detailed in the article posted.

Look, Laura Bush has always struck me as a decent enough person, and though I don't know her, I imagine that she felt terrible about this incident. But putting particular personalities aside for a moment, do you honestly believe that someone that recklessly runs a stop sign and kills an innocent person owes no debt to society?

Whether you agree with it or not, someone who does that can be charged with vehicular manslaughter, just like a someone driving drunk:

Vehicular manslaughter is the crime of causing the death of a human being due to illegal driving of an automobile, including gross negligence, drunk driving, reckless driving or speeding.

For whatever reason, she was not charged in an situation in which other people are.

[CCTAU 3,350]

As a counterpoint to make is crystal clear for you, there was no debt to society required from a 17 year old Laura Welch in that situation detailed in the article posted.

Look, Laura Bush has always struck me as a decent enough person, and though I don't know her, I imagine that she felt terrible about this incident. But putting particular personalities aside for a moment, do you honestly believe that someone that recklessly runs a stop sign and kills an innocent person owes no debt to society?

Whether you agree with it or not, someone who does that can be charged with vehicular manslaughter, just like a someone driving drunk:

Vehicular manslaughter is the crime of causing the death of a human being due to illegal driving of an automobile, including gross negligence, drunk driving, reckless driving or speeding.

For whatever reason, she was not charged in an situation in which other people are.

This is almost as laughable as trying to compare the Hagee situation with the Wright controversy.

Keep trying the spaghetti might get done one day.

[TexasTiger 13,028]

Tell me you are not serious.

Laura Welch was 17 and was devastated that she killed a friend of hers by running a stop sign. Ted Kennedy was an adult (married, I seem to remember) and was having a horizontal party with his secretary and he left her in the water and did not alert anyone.

How can you expect anyone to take your political statements rationally, when you see very little difference, if any, between the two?

I didn't say there was no difference. You did indicate there were no similarities. If someone runs a stop sign and kills my child, my child is still dead due to someone's inexcusable, reckless behavior.

Kennedy's behavior that night was inexcusable. I've said that before on this forum. But the extreme hatred still visited on him almost 40 years later, even upon hearing he has a cancerous brain tumor, is indicative of a deeply disturbing level of hatred that has to have a very corrosive effect on a person's soul. That's my point.

I don't think ill of Laura Bush because of the tragedy of that young man's death, even though I can objectively say that her recklessness caused his death. Even if she had panicked and tried to leave the scene-- though such behavior would have been inexcusable-- I would still choose to view her life as a whole, and not as being defined by a single night 40 years ago. That's my point.

BTW, the rationality of my political arguments will rise and fall on their own merits, as will yours. However, I haven't found that the soundness of one's arguments tends to have much impact on this forum.

Tex, this is beyong pathetic on your part. Surely, after you come to your senses, you will retract. If not, you have really shown something about yourself here.

Instead of more vague histrionics, why don't you tell me specifically what in this post you find "beyond pathetic" and I can respond to you. I assume it is not this sentence:

Kennedy's behavior that night was inexcusable

The comparison of the two events as though they were equivalent for political purposes. Several people have pointed out the obvious of the complete classlessness of the remarks. Knowing you, you won't budge and admit it was a complete douchebag thing to do and thats fine. Blah blah on all you like about why it was okay, I'm sure for you it was. The action really speaks for itself and the more you try to defend it the funnier you look.

Funny that you think you "know" me. From what I "know" of you, you seem like a fairly bright guy, but even bright guys may tend to react at a very surface level instead of engaging their brain. Actually, a couple of people on this thread, in addition to you, had more of a reaction than a thoughtful response to what I said.

I didn't actually state a moral equivalence between the two situations, and the comparison wasn't for political purposes, as you state. It was not my purpose to either diminish the responsibility of Kennedy for his actions that night and in the days that followed, nor to slam Laura Bush. Chappaquiddick has come up numerous times before on this forum, and I've never raised the tragedy that happened with Laura Welch Bush.

I was no fan of Jerry Falwell, by a long-shot. But when he died, I did not use that occasion to fire off a shot. In fact, my comment was very similar to my initial comment on this thread:

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...st&p=370425

After making my first comment on this thread:

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...st&p=491561

...and considering CCTAU's thread initiating post, now deleted, and this comment by aumd:

For some reason I'm reminded of a quote my mom always said. "Be sure your sins will seek you out." We've all got to go sometime, he's lived a full and long life. Much unlike his Ms. Kopechne

I felt a little disgusted that folks couldn't let this one thread pass without their judgments-- you know, give Teddy hell the next day if you must, but for the thread actually announcing his incurable cancer, just give it a rest. For almost forty years, there has been this visceral hatred of the man and his actions at Chappaquiddick have been a convenient reason to express it. And it occurred to me that if any well-known "librul" had recklessly run a stop sign and killed a young person, we would be constantly reminded of that regardless of the policy issue being discussed, Ann Coulter would have written a best seller about it and O'Reilley, Hannity and Rush would all be making a living off of it.

I've said this in the past:

Whatever Kennedy did that night was somewhere between very bad and unforgivable

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...st&p=212011

To elaborate, although we'll never know exactly what happened that night, it appears to me that two people who had been drinking, got into a car and drove off a bridge. After that, there's a ton of speculation, but what seems clear, at the least, is that Kennedy panicked and handled the aftermath of the accident very badly and dishonestly-- this is what I think most clearly sets his actions apart from others who may otherwise recklessly kill someone in a traffic accident. I have since believed that was a reflection of his character, at least at that point in his life, and was a key factor in assessing his candidacy for president 11 years later that I could not support. In short, I've never been a big Teddy fan.

That said, 39 years have since passed. During that time, the folks who may know him best, his Senate colleagues, appear to hold him in high regard-- even those who disagree with him strongly politically. He has often been able to work with Republicans on legislation and has earned the respect and affection of friends and foes alike. What does that say about him?

In my belief system, which I know you don't share, all of us will stand before God one day and answer for the lives we have lived. How will God judge Teddy? I have no idea. Neither do many of the folks here who seem to arrogantly think otherwise. Has he ever sincerely asked for God's forgiveness? I don't know, and neither does anyone here. What we do know, is that since saying this in 1991:

"I am painfully aware that the criticism directed at me in recent months involves far more than honest disagreements with my positions, or the usual criticism from the far right. It also involves the disappointment of friends and many others who rely on me to fight the good fight.

"To them I say: I recognize my own shortcomings -- the faults in the conduct of my private life. I realize that I alone am responsible for them, and I am the one who must confront them." He added, "I believe that each of us as individuals must not only struggle to make a better world, but to make ourselves better, too."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...753C1A967958260

...he seems to have stayed out of trouble. Did Teddy finally grow up at age 60? I don't know that either. I do know that he and his family recently found out he was dying. I know that his children, wife, and other friends and family are dealing with the impending loss of someone that they love and care deeply about.

But what have we seen on this thread announcing his terminal illness? A reminder that he cheated on a Spanish exam 57 years ago in 1951. A political shot on his cancer and his support for universal health care. Folks loved that little political use of his illness. Speculation on how libruls would respond to Conservatives being ill. A claim that the poor woman who died in his car that night was having an affair with him. We've had his illness called "karma". But you took issue with none of these comments. Not one. Instead, you chose my making the human point, not a political one, that, in regard to Laura Bush's tragic accident:

Even if she had panicked and tried to leave the scene-- though such behavior would have been inexcusable-- I would still choose to view her life as a whole, and not as being defined by a single night 40 years ago. That's my point.

It is clear that many folks here are so consumed by hatred of Kennedy that they can't even view him now from a human perspective. Sometimes, using a different scenario with other players to make the same point works. In this case, however, the hatred is too deep and the thoughts too shallow.

[CCTAU 3,350]

I felt a little disgusted that folks couldn't let this one thread pass without their judgments-- you know, give Teddy hell the next day if you must, but for the thread actually announcing his incurable cancer, just give it a rest.

There has been so much deletion and changing of this thread that you don't know what was originally posted.

The original post was when he initially had a seizure. And I wondered aloud how many times Mary Jo convulsed before her seizure ended.

It was not known that it was a malignant tumor until the next day. That's when the mighty Titan decided this thread was a little too harsh on ole killer Teddy and he changed it and started deleting posts. Some of us just don't feel bad for the man. I hate that he bred and now has children and grandchildren who think he's a nice guy and have to go through this (Wonder what Mary Jo's children would have looked like). But as for the man himself, I don't hate him, I just don't feel sorry for him. There is a difference.

And it seems there are many of us "jackasses" out there who don't really feel sad for the man.

[Tiger Al 0]

And it seems there are many of us "jackasses" out there who don't really feel sad for the man.

And that says more about you than it does him. Might, fortunately, does not make right.

[jw 4 au 526]

Funny that you think you "know" me. From what I "know" of you, you seem like a fairly bright guy, but even bright guys may tend to react at a very surface level instead of engaging their brain. Actually, a couple of people on this thread, in addition to you, had more of a reaction than a thoughtful response to what I said.

I didn't actually state a moral equivalence between the two situations, and the comparison wasn't for political purposes, as you state. It was not my purpose to either diminish the responsibility of Kennedy for his actions that night and in the days that followed, nor to slam Laura Bush. Chappaquiddick has come up numerous times before on this forum, and I've never raised the tragedy that happened with Laura Welch Bush.

I was no fan of Jerry Falwell, by a long-shot. But when he died, I did not use that occasion to fire off a shot. In fact, my comment was very similar to my initial comment on this thread:

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...st&p=370425

After making my first comment on this thread:

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...st&p=491561

...and considering CCTAU's thread initiating post, now deleted, and this comment by aumd:

For some reason I'm reminded of a quote my mom always said. "Be sure your sins will seek you out." We've all got to go sometime, he's lived a full and long life. Much unlike his Ms. Kopechne

I felt a little disgusted that folks couldn't let this one thread pass without their judgments-- you know, give Teddy hell the next day if you must, but for the thread actually announcing his incurable cancer, just give it a rest. For almost forty years, there has been this visceral hatred of the man and his actions at Chappaquiddick have been a convenient reason to express it. And it occurred to me that if any well-known "librul" had recklessly run a stop sign and killed a young person, we would be constantly reminded of that regardless of the policy issue being discussed, Ann Coulter would have written a best seller about it and O'Reilley, Hannity and Rush would all be making a living off of it.

I've said this in the past:

Whatever Kennedy did that night was somewhere between very bad and unforgivable

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...st&p=212011

To elaborate, although we'll never know exactly what happened that night, it appears to me that two people who had been drinking, got into a car and drove off a bridge. After that, there's a ton of speculation, but what seems clear, at the least, is that Kennedy panicked and handled the aftermath of the accident very badly and dishonestly-- this is what I think most clearly sets his actions apart from others who may otherwise recklessly kill someone in a traffic accident. I have since believed that was a reflection of his character, at least at that point in his life, and was a key factor in assessing his candidacy for president 11 years later that I could not support. In short, I've never been a big Teddy fan.

That said, 39 years have since passed. During that time, the folks who may know him best, his Senate colleagues, appear to hold him in high regard-- even those who disagree with him strongly politically. He has often been able to work with Republicans on legislation and has earned the respect and affection of friends and foes alike. What does that say about him?

In my belief system, which I know you don't share, all of us will stand before God one day and answer for the lives we have lived. How will God judge Teddy? I have no idea. Neither do many of the folks here who seem to arrogantly think otherwise. Has he ever sincerely asked for God's forgiveness? I don't know, and neither does anyone here. What we do know, is that since saying this in 1991:

"I am painfully aware that the criticism directed at me in recent months involves far more than honest disagreements with my positions, or the usual criticism from the far right. It also involves the disappointment of friends and many others who rely on me to fight the good fight.

"To them I say: I recognize my own shortcomings -- the faults in the conduct of my private life. I realize that I alone am responsible for them, and I am the one who must confront them." He added, "I believe that each of us as individuals must not only struggle to make a better world, but to make ourselves better, too."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...753C1A967958260

...he seems to have stayed out of trouble. Did Teddy finally grow up at age 60? I don't know that either. I do know that he and his family recently found out he was dying. I know that his children, wife, and other friends and family are dealing with the impending loss of someone that they love and care deeply about.

But what have we seen on this thread announcing his terminal illness? A reminder that he cheated on a Spanish exam 57 years ago in 1951. A political shot on his cancer and his support for universal health care. Folks loved that little political use of his illness. Speculation on how libruls would respond to Conservatives being ill. A claim that the poor woman who died in his car that night was having an affair with him. We've had his illness called "karma". But you took issue with none of these comments. Not one. Instead, you chose my making the human point, not a political one, that, in regard to Laura Bush's tragic accident:

Even if she had panicked and tried to leave the scene-- though such behavior would have been inexcusable-- I would still choose to view her life as a whole, and not as being defined by a single night 40 years ago. That's my point.

It is clear that many folks here are so consumed by hatred of Kennedy that they can't even view him now from a human perspective. Sometimes, using a different scenario with other players to make the same point works. In this case, however, the hatred is too deep and the thoughts too shallow.

Someone please change Texas Tiger's tag to "Most Conceited"

[aumd03 2]

Funny that you think you "know" me. From what I "know" of you, you seem like a fairly bright guy, but even bright guys may tend to react at a very surface level instead of engaging their brain. Actually, a couple of people on this thread, in addition to you, had more of a reaction than a thoughtful response to what I said.

I didn't actually state a moral equivalence between the two situations, and the comparison wasn't for political purposes, as you state. It was not my purpose to either diminish the responsibility of Kennedy for his actions that night and in the days that followed, nor to slam Laura Bush. Chappaquiddick has come up numerous times before on this forum, and I've never raised the tragedy that happened with Laura Welch Bush.

I was no fan of Jerry Falwell, by a long-shot. But when he died, I did not use that occasion to fire off a shot. In fact, my comment was very similar to my initial comment on this thread:

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...st&p=370425

After making my first comment on this thread:

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...st&p=491561

...and considering CCTAU's thread initiating post, now deleted, and this comment by aumd:

For some reason I'm reminded of a quote my mom always said. "Be sure your sins will seek you out." We've all got to go sometime, he's lived a full and long life. Much unlike his Ms. Kopechne

I felt a little disgusted that folks couldn't let this one thread pass without their judgments-- you know, give Teddy hell the next day if you must, but for the thread actually announcing his incurable cancer, just give it a rest. For almost forty years, there has been this visceral hatred of the man and his actions at Chappaquiddick have been a convenient reason to express it. And it occurred to me that if any well-known "librul" had recklessly run a stop sign and killed a young person, we would be constantly reminded of that regardless of the policy issue being discussed, Ann Coulter would have written a best seller about it and O'Reilley, Hannity and Rush would all be making a living off of it.

I've said this in the past:

Whatever Kennedy did that night was somewhere between very bad and unforgivable

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...st&p=212011

To elaborate, although we'll never know exactly what happened that night, it appears to me that two people who had been drinking, got into a car and drove off a bridge. After that, there's a ton of speculation, but what seems clear, at the least, is that Kennedy panicked and handled the aftermath of the accident very badly and dishonestly-- this is what I think most clearly sets his actions apart from others who may otherwise recklessly kill someone in a traffic accident. I have since believed that was a reflection of his character, at least at that point in his life, and was a key factor in assessing his candidacy for president 11 years later that I could not support. In short, I've never been a big Teddy fan.

That said, 39 years have since passed. During that time, the folks who may know him best, his Senate colleagues, appear to hold him in high regard-- even those who disagree with him strongly politically. He has often been able to work with Republicans on legislation and has earned the respect and affection of friends and foes alike. What does that say about him?

In my belief system, which I know you don't share, all of us will stand before God one day and answer for the lives we have lived. How will God judge Teddy? I have no idea. Neither do many of the folks here who seem to arrogantly think otherwise. Has he ever sincerely asked for God's forgiveness? I don't know, and neither does anyone here. What we do know, is that since saying this in 1991:

"I am painfully aware that the criticism directed at me in recent months involves far more than honest disagreements with my positions, or the usual criticism from the far right. It also involves the disappointment of friends and many others who rely on me to fight the good fight.

"To them I say: I recognize my own shortcomings -- the faults in the conduct of my private life. I realize that I alone am responsible for them, and I am the one who must confront them." He added, "I believe that each of us as individuals must not only struggle to make a better world, but to make ourselves better, too."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...753C1A967958260

...he seems to have stayed out of trouble. Did Teddy finally grow up at age 60? I don't know that either. I do know that he and his family recently found out he was dying. I know that his children, wife, and other friends and family are dealing with the impending loss of someone that they love and care deeply about.

But what have we seen on this thread announcing his terminal illness? A reminder that he cheated on a Spanish exam 57 years ago in 1951. A political shot on his cancer and his support for universal health care. Folks loved that little political use of his illness. Speculation on how libruls would respond to Conservatives being ill. A claim that the poor woman who died in his car that night was having an affair with him. We've had his illness called "karma". But you took issue with none of these comments. Not one. Instead, you chose my making the human point, not a political one, that, in regard to Laura Bush's tragic accident:

Even if she had panicked and tried to leave the scene-- though such behavior would have been inexcusable-- I would still choose to view her life as a whole, and not as being defined by a single night 40 years ago. That's my point.

It is clear that many folks here are so consumed by hatred of Kennedy that they can't even view him now from a human perspective. Sometimes, using a different scenario with other players to make the same point works. In this case, however, the hatred is too deep and the thoughts too shallow.

Someone please change Texas Tiger's tag to "Most Conceited"

The left always claims to be the side that embraces freedom and diversity of views. Freedom of choice, pro-choice, etc. But thats only until your view goes against theirs. Its the same principle that flies in the face of universal tolerance. Its tolerant of everyone but the intolerant.

They have no problem embracing a candidate that tolerates abortion, but how dare you criticize and not feel sympathy for a man that showed no remorse, blatant disregard for life over his own reputation and career, and a cold-heartedness that makes me angry. Yes I do feel hatred for the man. Do the same thing you recommend. Change the scenario. Place your family member in that car and see how it makes you feel.

[Tiger Al 0]

Someone please change Texas Tiger's tag to "Most Conceited"

I think his posts have been spot-on.

I, too, am amazed at the level of hatred some people feel toward Kennedy. I'm not talking about policy disagreements that go overboard, but, pure out and out hatred based on a mistake he made 40 yrs ago and one that had zero effect on the lives of the ones who hate him. This level of moral judgement and absolute void of any kind of forgiveness that comes from self-proclaimed Christians seems to run counter to the teachings of Jesus.