Tennessee vs. UCLA game thread

[runswithscissors 33]

UT kicks a FG wide to the left, UCLA wins in OT 27-24. this game reminded me of two cavemen pounding each other over the head with clubs.

[kwagoner 214]

This is up there with ECU/VT for the most exciting game so far.

WOW!

[dyehardaufan 0]

thanks tennesee for going out west and stinking it up and giving ESPN more fuel for how "great" the USC and Pac 9 are.

[Raven_tiger 5]

UT looks like it will actually be a pretty good team this year. UCLA will surprise a lot of teams this year too, watch out USC.

[BamaGrad03 0]

UT looks like it will actually be a pretty good team this year. UCLA will surprise a lot of teams this year too, watch out USC.

Interesting. My takeaway from that was totally different. UT scores 17 offensive points all night? 10 of them LATE in the game? Their offense couldn't block anyone.

UT didn't impress me at all.

[auburnu008 4]

UT looks like it will actually be a pretty good team this year. UCLA will surprise a lot of teams this year too, watch out USC.

Interesting. My takeaway from that was totally different. UT scores 17 offensive points all night? 10 of them LATE in the game? Their offense couldn't block anyone.

UT didn't impress me at all.

Agreed, UT looked like absolute crap. I am not sure what game you were watching, or if you were joking. It was pitiful. The UT boards are in meltdown. They have been down since the start of the 4th quater.

[AUHansel 0]

To those of you that didn't think that UCLA players scored on the run to the corner you are wrong. The ball does not, I repeat DOES NOT have to cross the pylon. There is a line that basically extends around the world that serves as the goal line. A player only has to get part of his body over the pylon. The back touched the pylon with his other hand. Therefore that is a TD. I'm not going to get the rule book but thats what it is.

[au2004ece 30]

Wow. What a game. Hate to see either team lose this one... 24-24 OT.

I hated to see either team win this game. They both looked like awful teams. I agree, Tennessee does not look like they will win an SEC game at this point. But, I am sure they will improve and give every team they play a run for their money.

[runswithscissors 33]

To those of you that didn't think that UCLA players scored on the run to the corner you are wrong. The ball does not, I repeat DOES NOT have to cross the pylon. There is a line that basically extends around the world that serves as the goal line. A player only has to get part of his body over the pylon. The back touched the pylon with his other hand. Therefore that is a TD. I'm not going to get the rule book but thats what it is.

the ball still has to cross the goal line. for example, if you are leaping in the air and you are hit mid-air and your body goes sideways and your whole body is out of bounds, but if you can make the ball break the plane of the goal line before your body touches the ground out of bounds, it is a TD. in the same scenario if the ball never breaks the plane but your hand touches the pylon, that is not a TD.

[AUHansel 0]

To those of you that didn't think that UCLA players scored on the run to the corner you are wrong. The ball does not, I repeat DOES NOT have to cross the pylon. There is a line that basically extends around the world that serves as the goal line. A player only has to get part of his body over the pylon. The back touched the pylon with his other hand. Therefore that is a TD. I'm not going to get the rule book but thats what it is.

the ball still has to cross the goal line. for example, if you are leaping in the air and you are hit mid-air and your body goes sideways and your whole body is out of bounds, but if you can make the ball break the plane of the goal line before your body touches the ground out of bounds, it is a TD. in the same scenario if the ball never breaks the plane but your hand touches the pylon, that is not a TD.

fine...I'll have to get the rule book out now. give me a little bit

[AUHansel 0]

To those of you that didn't think that UCLA players scored on the run to the corner you are wrong. The ball does not, I repeat DOES NOT have to cross the pylon. There is a line that basically extends around the world that serves as the goal line. A player only has to get part of his body over the pylon. The back touched the pylon with his other hand. Therefore that is a TD. I'm not going to get the rule book but thats what it is.

the ball still has to cross the goal line. for example, if you are leaping in the air and you are hit mid-air and your body goes sideways and your whole body is out of bounds, but if you can make the ball break the plane of the goal line before your body touches the ground out of bounds, it is a TD. in the same scenario if the ball never breaks the plane but your hand touches the pylon, that is not a TD.

fine...I'll have to get the rule book out now. give me a little bit

Goal Lines

ARTICLE 1. Each goal line is part of a vertical plane separating an end zone

from the field of play when the ball is touched or is in player possession.

The plane extends beyond the sidelines (Exception: Rule 4-2-4-e). A team’s

goal line is that which it is defending (A.R. 2-11-1-I).

b. A touchdown may be scored if the ball is inbounds and has broken the

plane of the goal line before or simultaneous to the runner going out of

bounds.

ARTICLE 1. A touchdown shall be scored when:

a. A runner advancing from the field of play is legally in possession of a live

ball when it penetrates the opponent’s goal line (plane) (Exception: Rule

4-2-4-e) (A.R. 2-23-1-I and A.R. 8-2-1-I-IV).

b. A player or an airborne player who touches a pylon is out of bounds.

The ball is not out of bounds until it hits the ground....right? It is not out of bound until the player is out of bounds.

I've been told about this plane that extends beyond the goal line. I didn't know this rule until I saw it in the NFL. I was watching a game where a player was running the ball (think it was vick). He dove for the pylon with the ball in his left hand. He reached out his right hand and hit they pylon. The play was called a TD and under the rule book it was right.

The player, was airborne, went over the plane with the ball and simultaneous hit the pylon. In the rules that is a TD. The ball doesn't have to cross over the pylon. It has to cross the plane.

[runswithscissors 33]

To those of you that didn't think that UCLA players scored on the run to the corner you are wrong. The ball does not, I repeat DOES NOT have to cross the pylon. There is a line that basically extends around the world that serves as the goal line. A player only has to get part of his body over the pylon. The back touched the pylon with his other hand. Therefore that is a TD. I'm not going to get the rule book but thats what it is.

the ball still has to cross the goal line. for example, if you are leaping in the air and you are hit mid-air and your body goes sideways and your whole body is out of bounds, but if you can make the ball break the plane of the goal line before your body touches the ground out of bounds, it is a TD. in the same scenario if the ball never breaks the plane but your hand touches the pylon, that is not a TD.

fine...I'll have to get the rule book out now. give me a little bit

Goal Lines

ARTICLE 1. Each goal line is part of a vertical plane separating an end zone

from the field of play when the ball is touched or is in player possession.

The plane extends beyond the sidelines (Exception: Rule 4-2-4-e). A team’s

goal line is that which it is defending (A.R. 2-11-1-I).

b. A touchdown may be scored if the ball is inbounds and has broken the

plane of the goal line before or simultaneous to the runner going out of

bounds.

ARTICLE 1. A touchdown shall be scored when:

a. A runner advancing from the field of play is legally in possession of a live

ball when it penetrates the opponent’s goal line (plane) (Exception: Rule

4-2-4-e) (A.R. 2-23-1-I and A.R. 8-2-1-I-IV).

b. A player or an airborne player who touches a pylon is out of bounds.

The ball is not out of bounds until it hits the ground....right? It is not out of bound until the player is out of bounds.

I've been told about this plane that extends beyond the goal line. I didn't know this rule until I saw it in the NFL. I was watching a game where a player was running the ball (think it was vick). He dove for the pylon with the ball in his left hand. He reached out his right hand and hit they pylon. The play was called a TD and under the rule book it was right.

The player, was airborne, went over the plane with the ball and simultaneous hit the pylon. In the rules that is a TD. The ball doesn't have to cross over the pylon. It has to cross the plane.

the way your original post was worded was the player simply had to touch the pylon with his hand.

A player only has to get part of his body over the pylon. The back touched the pylon with his other hand. Therefore that is a TD.

you made no mention of the plane of the goal line or anything in your original post. the rule that you posted is almost exactly what i said. i specifically mentioned that the ball HAD to break the plane of the goal line, i never mentioned anything about a pylon until giving a scenario in which it would not be a TD. the plane of the goal line is defined, for a lack of better words, as where the playing field meets the white line that serves as the goal line. for example, if when your knee hit the ground on a run and you stretched and the nose of the ball lay ON the white line before your knee hit, but did not quite stick over it into the end zone, it would still be a TD because you broke the plane. or, if while on the 1 yard line say you had a QB with freakish long arms he could jump up and lean over and simply stick the nose of the ball over the white line while his body stays outside of the end zone.

I've been told about this plane that extends beyond the goal line. I didn't know this rule until I saw it in the NFL. I was watching a game where a player was running the ball (think it was vick). He dove for the pylon with the ball in his left hand. He reached out his right hand and hit they pylon. The play was called a TD and under the rule book it was right.

the ball is not out of bounds until:

1. the ball leaves the playing field detached from a player (such as a fumble that rolls out of bounds by itself, or a QB throws it away, etc)

2. the ball is in possession of a player whose body touches the ground outside of a boundary before touching the playing field (such as if a sideline catch is made and you do not drag your foot, or feet if talking about NFL.)

if a player ran the ball and the ball NEVER broke the plane and the player simply touched a pylon with a hand, that should not be a TD. the plane does not extend beyond the sidelines. either he was flying through the air and as he flew through the air, at some point the ball itself was inbounds and crossed the plane of the goal line, or the refs made an incorrect call. this isn't some new groundbreaking thing that has never happened before, there have been plenty of plays such as this happen and it is not a new concept by any means. i think you have your wording incorrect, or you did not understand the play, but i think we generally have the same idea.

if i'm not being clear with my wording, somebody please feel free to jump in and correct it.

[Raven_tiger 5]

UT looks like it will actually be a pretty good team this year. UCLA will surprise a lot of teams this year too, watch out USC.

Interesting. My takeaway from that was totally different. UT scores 17 offensive points all night? 10 of them LATE in the game? Their offense couldn't block anyone.

UT didn't impress me at all.

Agreed, UT looked like absolute crap. I am not sure what game you were watching, or if you were joking. It was pitiful. The UT boards are in meltdown. They have been down since the start of the 4th quater.

For the 1st game breaking in an untested QB, I didn't think that UT looked that bad. UT churned out 366 yards total offense (balanced) and Crompton put the ball in the air 41 times... Crompton did a good job leading them down the field with less that 1 minute left to attempt a FG. They had plenty of miscues but it was the 1st game of the season, on the road (way on the road). UCLA will definately improve on their 6-7 record from last year.

Least you forget, this is not the underachieveing UCLA coaching staff of years past. Craft (UCLA QB) is a JUCO transfer that was 3rd on the depth chart prior to the season. Craft thew 4 picks in the first half and have a stellar 2nd half. Excellent coaching during halftime. The Sept 13th game at BYU will be a good game. UCLA may be 2-0 after beating 2 top 20 teams to start the season...

or maybe UT was just playing vanilla...

[tgr4lfe 220]

UT looks like it will actually be a pretty good team this year. UCLA will surprise a lot of teams this year too, watch out USC.

Interesting. My takeaway from that was totally different. UT scores 17 offensive points all night? 10 of them LATE in the game? Their offense couldn't block anyone.

UT didn't impress me at all.

Agreed, UT looked like absolute crap. I am not sure what game you were watching, or if you were joking. It was pitiful. The UT boards are in meltdown. They have been down since the start of the 4th quater.

For the 1st game breaking in an untested QB, I didn't think that UT looked that bad. UT churned out 366 yards total offense (balanced) and Crompton put the ball in the air 41 times... Crompton did a good job leading them down the field with less that 1 minute left to attempt a FG. They had plenty of miscues but it was the 1st game of the season, on the road (way on the road). UCLA will definately improve on their 6-7 record from last year.

Least you forget, this is not the underachieveing UCLA coaching staff of years past. Craft (UCLA QB) is a JUCO transfer that was 3rd on the depth chart prior to the season. Craft thew 4 picks in the first half and have a stellar 2nd half. Excellent coaching during halftime. The Sept 13th game at BYU will be a good game. UCLA may be 2-0 after beating 2 top 20 teams to start the season...

or maybe UT was just playing vanilla...

I think Crompton throwing the ball 41 times was their problem. They should have ran the ball more b/c of the onslaught that was the UCLA pass rush. 4 TOs in the first half and all UT scored off those was 7 points only when the DB ran it in. Game should have been out of reach in the 2nd quarter. UCLA DL looked flat out stellar, adn the experienced UT OL looked awful. UT D looked good the first half, then Norm Chow ate them up by changing the offensive plan to short passes for Craft to get in a groove. UT D should have clamped down more on WRs. The 2nd string TE, killed them in the middle the entire second half.

[AUHansel 0]

To those of you that didn't think that UCLA players scored on the run to the corner you are wrong. The ball does not, I repeat DOES NOT have to cross the pylon. There is a line that basically extends around the world that serves as the goal line. A player only has to get part of his body over the pylon. The back touched the pylon with his other hand. Therefore that is a TD. I'm not going to get the rule book but thats what it is.

the ball still has to cross the goal line. for example, if you are leaping in the air and you are hit mid-air and your body goes sideways and your whole body is out of bounds, but if you can make the ball break the plane of the goal line before your body touches the ground out of bounds, it is a TD. in the same scenario if the ball never breaks the plane but your hand touches the pylon, that is not a TD.

fine...I'll have to get the rule book out now. give me a little bit

Goal Lines

ARTICLE 1. Each goal line is part of a vertical plane separating an end zone

from the field of play when the ball is touched or is in player possession.

The plane extends beyond the sidelines (Exception: Rule 4-2-4-e). A team’s

goal line is that which it is defending (A.R. 2-11-1-I).

b. A touchdown may be scored if the ball is inbounds and has broken the

plane of the goal line before or simultaneous to the runner going out of

bounds.

ARTICLE 1. A touchdown shall be scored when:

a. A runner advancing from the field of play is legally in possession of a live

ball when it penetrates the opponent’s goal line (plane) (Exception: Rule

4-2-4-e) (A.R. 2-23-1-I and A.R. 8-2-1-I-IV).

b. A player or an airborne player who touches a pylon is out of bounds.

The ball is not out of bounds until it hits the ground....right? It is not out of bound until the player is out of bounds.

I've been told about this plane that extends beyond the goal line. I didn't know this rule until I saw it in the NFL. I was watching a game where a player was running the ball (think it was vick). He dove for the pylon with the ball in his left hand. He reached out his right hand and hit they pylon. The play was called a TD and under the rule book it was right.

The player, was airborne, went over the plane with the ball and simultaneous hit the pylon. In the rules that is a TD. The ball doesn't have to cross over the pylon. It has to cross the plane.

the way your original post was worded was the player simply had to touch the pylon with his hand.

A player only has to get part of his body over the pylon. The back touched the pylon with his other hand. Therefore that is a TD.

you made no mention of the plane of the goal line or anything in your original post. the rule that you posted is almost exactly what i said. i specifically mentioned that the ball HAD to break the plane of the goal line, i never mentioned anything about a pylon until giving a scenario in which it would not be a TD. the plane of the goal line is defined, for a lack of better words, as where the playing field meets the white line that serves as the goal line. for example, if when your knee hit the ground on a run and you stretched and the nose of the ball lay ON the white line before your knee hit, but did not quite stick over it into the end zone, it would still be a TD because you broke the plane. or, if while on the 1 yard line say you had a QB with freakish long arms he could jump up and lean over and simply stick the nose of the ball over the white line while his body stays outside of the end zone.

I've been told about this plane that extends beyond the goal line. I didn't know this rule until I saw it in the NFL. I was watching a game where a player was running the ball (think it was vick). He dove for the pylon with the ball in his left hand. He reached out his right hand and hit they pylon. The play was called a TD and under the rule book it was right.

the ball is not out of bounds until:

1. the ball leaves the playing field detached from a player (such as a fumble that rolls out of bounds by itself, or a QB throws it away, etc)

2. the ball is in possession of a player whose body touches the ground outside of a boundary before touching the playing field (such as if a sideline catch is made and you do not drag your foot, or feet if talking about NFL.)

if a player ran the ball and the ball NEVER broke the plane and the player simply touched a pylon with a hand, that should not be a TD. the plane does not extend beyond the sidelines. either he was flying through the air and as he flew through the air, at some point the ball itself was inbounds and crossed the plane of the goal line, or the refs made an incorrect call. this isn't some new groundbreaking thing that has never happened before, there have been plenty of plays such as this happen and it is not a new concept by any means. i think you have your wording incorrect, or you did not understand the play, but i think we generally have the same idea.

if i'm not being clear with my wording, somebody please feel free to jump in and correct it.

ARTICLE 1. Each goal line is part of a vertical plane separating an end zone

from the field of play when the ball is touched or is in player possession.

The plane extends beyond the sidelines (Exception: Rule 4-2-4-e). A team’s

goal line is that which it is defending (A.R. 2-11-1-I).

this is from the rule book...the plane does extend beyond the sidelines. The ball had crossed over the plane, which was beyond the sidelines like the rule states, and part of his body hit the pylon.

the rules(plural) that I posted are nothing of what you said. I'm am saying that if a player, is airborne and breaks the plane of the goal line, THAT EXTENDS BEYOND THE SIDELINES, all that player has to do is touch the pylon or go over it with a body part. THE BALL DOES NOT, I REPEAT DOES NOT, HAVE TO CROSS OVER ANY PART OF THE ENDZONE.

b. A touchdown may be scored if the ball is inbounds and has broken the

plane of the goal line before or simultaneous to the runner going out of

bounds.

b. A player or an airborne player who touches a pylon is out of bounds.

If you are in the air with the ball, the ball is still inbounds. The rule above states that a TD is scored once the ball breaks the plane and it can be simultaneous to the runner going out, hitting the pylon.

[WarTiger 3,924]

To those of you that didn't think that UCLA players scored on the run to the corner you are wrong. The ball does not, I repeat DOES NOT have to cross the pylon. There is a line that basically extends around the world that serves as the goal line. A player only has to get part of his body over the pylon. The back touched the pylon with his other hand. Therefore that is a TD. I'm not going to get the rule book but thats what it is.

the ball still has to cross the goal line. for example, if you are leaping in the air and you are hit mid-air and your body goes sideways and your whole body is out of bounds, but if you can make the ball break the plane of the goal line before your body touches the ground out of bounds, it is a TD. in the same scenario if the ball never breaks the plane but your hand touches the pylon, that is not a TD.

fine...I'll have to get the rule book out now. give me a little bit

Goal Lines

ARTICLE 1. Each goal line is part of a vertical plane separating an end zone

from the field of play when the ball is touched or is in player possession.

The plane extends beyond the sidelines (Exception: Rule 4-2-4-e). A team’s

goal line is that which it is defending (A.R. 2-11-1-I).

b. A touchdown may be scored if the ball is inbounds and has broken the

plane of the goal line before or simultaneous to the runner going out of

bounds.

ARTICLE 1. A touchdown shall be scored when:

a. A runner advancing from the field of play is legally in possession of a live

ball when it penetrates the opponent’s goal line (plane) (Exception: Rule

4-2-4-e) (A.R. 2-23-1-I and A.R. 8-2-1-I-IV).

b. A player or an airborne player who touches a pylon is out of bounds.

The ball is not out of bounds until it hits the ground....right? It is not out of bound until the player is out of bounds.

I've been told about this plane that extends beyond the goal line. I didn't know this rule until I saw it in the NFL. I was watching a game where a player was running the ball (think it was vick). He dove for the pylon with the ball in his left hand. He reached out his right hand and hit they pylon. The play was called a TD and under the rule book it was right.

The player, was airborne, went over the plane with the ball and simultaneous hit the pylon. In the rules that is a TD. The ball doesn't have to cross over the pylon. It has to cross the plane.

the way your original post was worded was the player simply had to touch the pylon with his hand.

A player only has to get part of his body over the pylon. The back touched the pylon with his other hand. Therefore that is a TD.

you made no mention of the plane of the goal line or anything in your original post. the rule that you posted is almost exactly what i said. i specifically mentioned that the ball HAD to break the plane of the goal line, i never mentioned anything about a pylon until giving a scenario in which it would not be a TD. the plane of the goal line is defined, for a lack of better words, as where the playing field meets the white line that serves as the goal line. for example, if when your knee hit the ground on a run and you stretched and the nose of the ball lay ON the white line before your knee hit, but did not quite stick over it into the end zone, it would still be a TD because you broke the plane. or, if while on the 1 yard line say you had a QB with freakish long arms he could jump up and lean over and simply stick the nose of the ball over the white line while his body stays outside of the end zone.

I've been told about this plane that extends beyond the goal line. I didn't know this rule until I saw it in the NFL. I was watching a game where a player was running the ball (think it was vick). He dove for the pylon with the ball in his left hand. He reached out his right hand and hit they pylon. The play was called a TD and under the rule book it was right.

the ball is not out of bounds until:

1. the ball leaves the playing field detached from a player (such as a fumble that rolls out of bounds by itself, or a QB throws it away, etc)

2. the ball is in possession of a player whose body touches the ground outside of a boundary before touching the playing field (such as if a sideline catch is made and you do not drag your foot, or feet if talking about NFL.)

if a player ran the ball and the ball NEVER broke the plane and the player simply touched a pylon with a hand, that should not be a TD. the plane does not extend beyond the sidelines. either he was flying through the air and as he flew through the air, at some point the ball itself was inbounds and crossed the plane of the goal line, or the refs made an incorrect call. this isn't some new groundbreaking thing that has never happened before, there have been plenty of plays such as this happen and it is not a new concept by any means. i think you have your wording incorrect, or you did not understand the play, but i think we generally have the same idea.

if i'm not being clear with my wording, somebody please feel free to jump in and correct it.

ARTICLE 1. Each goal line is part of a vertical plane separating an end zone

from the field of play when the ball is touched or is in player possession.

The plane extends beyond the sidelines (Exception: Rule 4-2-4-e). A team’s

goal line is that which it is defending (A.R. 2-11-1-I).

this is from the rule book...the plane does extend beyond the sidelines. The ball had crossed over the plane, which was beyond the sidelines like the rule states, and part of his body hit the pylon.

the rules(plural) that I posted are nothing of what you said. I'm am saying that if a player, is airborne and breaks the plane of the goal line, THAT EXTENDS BEYOND THE SIDELINES, all that player has to do is touch the pylon or go over it with a body part. THE BALL DOES NOT, I REPEAT DOES NOT, HAVE TO CROSS OVER ANY PART OF THE ENDZONE.

b. A touchdown may be scored if the ball is inbounds and has broken the

plane of the goal line before or simultaneous to the runner going out of

bounds.

b. A player or an airborne player who touches a pylon is out of bounds.

If you are in the air with the ball, the ball is still inbounds. The rule above states that a TD is scored once the ball breaks the plane and it can be simultaneous to the runner going out, hitting the pylon.

You couldn't be further from the truth. The ONLY way a touchdown is scored is if the ball breaks the plane of the goal line within the pylons. Here are some examples right out of the rule book to back it up...

First when a touchdown is scored:

ARTICLE 1. A touchdown shall be scored when:

a. A runner advancing from the field of play is legally in possession of a live

ball when it penetrates the opponent’s goal line (plane) (Exception: Rule

4-2-4-e) (A.R. 2-23-1-I and A.R. 8-2-1-I-IV).

b. An eligible receiver catches a legal forward pass in the opponent’s end

zone (A.R. 5-1-3-I and II).

c. A fumble or backward pass is recovered, caught, intercepted or awarded

in the opponent’s end zone (Exceptions: Rules 7-2-2-a Exception 2, 7-2-

2-b Exception 2 and 8-3-2-d-5) (A.R. 7-2-4-I).

Next, what constitutes out of bounds:

Out of Bounds at Forward Point

ARTICLE 4. a. If a live ball is declared out of bounds and the ball does not

cross a boundary line, it is out of bounds at the ball’s most forward point

when it was declared dead (A.R. 4-2-4-I).

b. A touchdown may be scored if the ball is inbounds and has broken the

plane of the goal line before or simultaneous to the runner going out of

bounds.

c. A receiver who is in the opponent’s end zone and contacting the ground

is credited with a completion if he reaches over the sideline or end line

and catches a legal pass.

d. The most forward point of the ball when declared out of bounds between

the end lines is the point of forward progress (A.R. 8-2-1-II and A.R. 8-

5-1-X).

e. When a runner dives or jumps toward the sideline and is airborne as he

crosses the sideline, forward progress is determined by the position of

the ball as it crosses the sideline (A.R. 8-2-1-III and IV).

Finally, some actual case plays:

SECTION 2. Touchdown

How Scored—ARTICLE 1

Approved Ruling 8-2-1

I. The runner is thrown or falls to the ground on his opponent’s oneyard

line, but his momentum causes him to slide across the goal line.

RULING: Not a touchdown unless the ball’s forward point was on,

above or across the goal line when any part of the runner’s body

except his hand or foot struck the ground (Rules 4-1-3-b and 5-1-3).

II. Runner A1, while attempting to score, strikes the pylon located on

the right intersection of the goal line and sideline with his foot. He is

carrying the ball in his right arm, which is extended over the sideline.

RULING: Whether or not a touchdown is scored depends on the

forward progress of the ball as related to the goal line when the ball

becomes dead by rule (Rules 4-2-4-d and 5-1-3-a).

III. Runner A1, advancing in the field of play, becomes airborne at the

two-yard line. His first contact with the ground is out of bounds three

yards beyond the goal line. The ball, in possession of the runner,

passed over the pylon. RULING: Touchdown (Rule 4-2-4-e).

IV. The ball, in possession of airborne runner A21, crosses the sideline

above the one-yard line, penetrates the plane of the goal line

extended and is then declared dead out of bounds in possession of

A21. RULING: Ball is declared out of bounds at the one-yard line

(Rules 2-11-1 and 4-2-4-e).

EVERYTHING points to the location of the ball. Forward progress is determined by location of the ball at the time the player went down. The ball must touch or break the plane of the goal line within the pylons for there to be a touchdown. PERIOD.

quick edit: this was a game that I capped last night (but didn't watch until after this score) to put up at tenyardtorrents. I just went back and watched the play. That was NO WHERE NEAR a touchdown. I wish the referee had given an explanation as to why it was a touchdown. It certainly wasn't a touchdown by rule.

[AUHansel 0]

To those of you that didn't think that UCLA players scored on the run to the corner you are wrong. The ball does not, I repeat DOES NOT have to cross the pylon. There is a line that basically extends around the world that serves as the goal line. A player only has to get part of his body over the pylon. The back touched the pylon with his other hand. Therefore that is a TD. I'm not going to get the rule book but thats what it is.

the ball still has to cross the goal line. for example, if you are leaping in the air and you are hit mid-air and your body goes sideways and your whole body is out of bounds, but if you can make the ball break the plane of the goal line before your body touches the ground out of bounds, it is a TD. in the same scenario if the ball never breaks the plane but your hand touches the pylon, that is not a TD.

fine...I'll have to get the rule book out now. give me a little bit

Goal Lines

ARTICLE 1. Each goal line is part of a vertical plane separating an end zone

from the field of play when the ball is touched or is in player possession.

The plane extends beyond the sidelines (Exception: Rule 4-2-4-e). A team’s

goal line is that which it is defending (A.R. 2-11-1-I).

b. A touchdown may be scored if the ball is inbounds and has broken the

plane of the goal line before or simultaneous to the runner going out of

bounds.

ARTICLE 1. A touchdown shall be scored when:

a. A runner advancing from the field of play is legally in possession of a live

ball when it penetrates the opponent’s goal line (plane) (Exception: Rule

4-2-4-e) (A.R. 2-23-1-I and A.R. 8-2-1-I-IV).

b. A player or an airborne player who touches a pylon is out of bounds.

The ball is not out of bounds until it hits the ground....right? It is not out of bound until the player is out of bounds.

I've been told about this plane that extends beyond the goal line. I didn't know this rule until I saw it in the NFL. I was watching a game where a player was running the ball (think it was vick). He dove for the pylon with the ball in his left hand. He reached out his right hand and hit they pylon. The play was called a TD and under the rule book it was right.

The player, was airborne, went over the plane with the ball and simultaneous hit the pylon. In the rules that is a TD. The ball doesn't have to cross over the pylon. It has to cross the plane.

the way your original post was worded was the player simply had to touch the pylon with his hand.

A player only has to get part of his body over the pylon. The back touched the pylon with his other hand. Therefore that is a TD.

you made no mention of the plane of the goal line or anything in your original post. the rule that you posted is almost exactly what i said. i specifically mentioned that the ball HAD to break the plane of the goal line, i never mentioned anything about a pylon until giving a scenario in which it would not be a TD. the plane of the goal line is defined, for a lack of better words, as where the playing field meets the white line that serves as the goal line. for example, if when your knee hit the ground on a run and you stretched and the nose of the ball lay ON the white line before your knee hit, but did not quite stick over it into the end zone, it would still be a TD because you broke the plane. or, if while on the 1 yard line say you had a QB with freakish long arms he could jump up and lean over and simply stick the nose of the ball over the white line while his body stays outside of the end zone.

I've been told about this plane that extends beyond the goal line. I didn't know this rule until I saw it in the NFL. I was watching a game where a player was running the ball (think it was vick). He dove for the pylon with the ball in his left hand. He reached out his right hand and hit they pylon. The play was called a TD and under the rule book it was right.

the ball is not out of bounds until:

1. the ball leaves the playing field detached from a player (such as a fumble that rolls out of bounds by itself, or a QB throws it away, etc)

2. the ball is in possession of a player whose body touches the ground outside of a boundary before touching the playing field (such as if a sideline catch is made and you do not drag your foot, or feet if talking about NFL.)

if a player ran the ball and the ball NEVER broke the plane and the player simply touched a pylon with a hand, that should not be a TD. the plane does not extend beyond the sidelines. either he was flying through the air and as he flew through the air, at some point the ball itself was inbounds and crossed the plane of the goal line, or the refs made an incorrect call. this isn't some new groundbreaking thing that has never happened before, there have been plenty of plays such as this happen and it is not a new concept by any means. i think you have your wording incorrect, or you did not understand the play, but i think we generally have the same idea.

if i'm not being clear with my wording, somebody please feel free to jump in and correct it.

ARTICLE 1. Each goal line is part of a vertical plane separating an end zone

from the field of play when the ball is touched or is in player possession.

The plane extends beyond the sidelines (Exception: Rule 4-2-4-e). A team’s

goal line is that which it is defending (A.R. 2-11-1-I).

this is from the rule book...the plane does extend beyond the sidelines. The ball had crossed over the plane, which was beyond the sidelines like the rule states, and part of his body hit the pylon.

the rules(plural) that I posted are nothing of what you said. I'm am saying that if a player, is airborne and breaks the plane of the goal line, THAT EXTENDS BEYOND THE SIDELINES, all that player has to do is touch the pylon or go over it with a body part. THE BALL DOES NOT, I REPEAT DOES NOT, HAVE TO CROSS OVER ANY PART OF THE ENDZONE.

b. A touchdown may be scored if the ball is inbounds and has broken the

plane of the goal line before or simultaneous to the runner going out of

bounds.

b. A player or an airborne player who touches a pylon is out of bounds.

If you are in the air with the ball, the ball is still inbounds. The rule above states that a TD is scored once the ball breaks the plane and it can be simultaneous to the runner going out, hitting the pylon.

You couldn't be further from the truth. The ONLY way a touchdown is scored is if the ball breaks the plane of the goal line within the pylons. Here are some examples right out of the rule book to back it up...

First when a touchdown is scored:

ARTICLE 1. A touchdown shall be scored when:

a. A runner advancing from the field of play is legally in possession of a live

ball when it penetrates the opponent’s goal line (plane) (Exception: Rule

4-2-4-e) (A.R. 2-23-1-I and A.R. 8-2-1-I-IV).

b. An eligible receiver catches a legal forward pass in the opponent’s end

zone (A.R. 5-1-3-I and II).

c. A fumble or backward pass is recovered, caught, intercepted or awarded

in the opponent’s end zone (Exceptions: Rules 7-2-2-a Exception 2, 7-2-

2-b Exception 2 and 8-3-2-d-5) (A.R. 7-2-4-I).

Next, what constitutes out of bounds:

Out of Bounds at Forward Point

ARTICLE 4. a. If a live ball is declared out of bounds and the ball does not

cross a boundary line, it is out of bounds at the ball’s most forward point

when it was declared dead (A.R. 4-2-4-I).

b. A touchdown may be scored if the ball is inbounds and has broken the

plane of the goal line before or simultaneous to the runner going out of

bounds.

c. A receiver who is in the opponent’s end zone and contacting the ground

is credited with a completion if he reaches over the sideline or end line

and catches a legal pass.

d. The most forward point of the ball when declared out of bounds between

the end lines is the point of forward progress (A.R. 8-2-1-II and A.R. 8-

5-1-X).

e. When a runner dives or jumps toward the sideline and is airborne as he

crosses the sideline, forward progress is determined by the position of

the ball as it crosses the sideline (A.R. 8-2-1-III and IV).

Finally, some actual case plays:

SECTION 2. Touchdown

How Scored—ARTICLE 1

Approved Ruling 8-2-1

I. The runner is thrown or falls to the ground on his opponent’s oneyard

line, but his momentum causes him to slide across the goal line.

RULING: Not a touchdown unless the ball’s forward point was on,

above or across the goal line when any part of the runner’s body

except his hand or foot struck the ground (Rules 4-1-3-b and 5-1-3).

II. Runner A1, while attempting to score, strikes the pylon located on

the right intersection of the goal line and sideline with his foot. He is

carrying the ball in his right arm, which is extended over the sideline.

RULING: Whether or not a touchdown is scored depends on the

forward progress of the ball as related to the goal line when the ball

becomes dead by rule (Rules 4-2-4-d and 5-1-3-a).

III. Runner A1, advancing in the field of play, becomes airborne at the

two-yard line. His first contact with the ground is out of bounds three

yards beyond the goal line. The ball, in possession of the runner,

passed over the pylon. RULING: Touchdown (Rule 4-2-4-e).

IV. The ball, in possession of airborne runner A21, crosses the sideline

above the one-yard line, penetrates the plane of the goal line

extended and is then declared dead out of bounds in possession of

A21. RULING: Ball is declared out of bounds at the one-yard line

(Rules 2-11-1 and 4-2-4-e).

EVERYTHING points to the location of the ball. Forward progress is determined by location of the ball at the time the player went down. The ball must touch or break the plane of the goal line within the pylons for there to be a touchdown. PERIOD.

Where does it say that the ball has to cross the plane over the pylon?

II. Runner A1, while attempting to score, strikes the pylon located on

the right intersection of the goal line and sideline with his foot. He is

carrying the ball in his right arm, which is extended over the sideline.

RULING: Whether or not a touchdown is scored depends on the

forward progress of the ball as related to the goal line when the ball

becomes dead by rule (Rules 4-2-4-d and 5-1-3-a).

this says it all right here. It says the ball in his right arm is extended OVER THE SIDELINE. That means the ball was not over the pylon but over the plane. When the UCLA player went completely out of bounds, the ball had already crossed the plane. Whether it crossed over the pylon or not, it didn't matter because the forward progression of the ball was over the plane. The ball was not declared ded yet.

The above states that it depends if the ball has passed the plane, not over the pylon. You left something out of that last rule, rule IV is not complete.

It does not say anywhere that the ball has to cross the plane over the pylon. Rule IV is different. That doesn't say that the pylon was hit by the player.

I REPEAT, IT DOES NOT STATE ANYWHERE IN THE RULE BOOK THAT THE BALL HAS TO CROSS OVER THE PYLON. THE BALL MUST NOT BE DECLARED DEAD BEFORE A TD. IF THE PLAYER HAS NOT GONE OUT OF BOUND, WHICH HE DID NOT UNTIL HE HIT THE PYLON. THE PYLON DECLARES THE BALL DEAD BUT IN THE RULES IT SAYS IF THE BALL HAS ALREADY CROSSED THE PLANE, THEN THE PLAYER HITS THE PYLON, A TOUCHDOWN IS THE RESULT.

[tgr4lfe 220]

I said from the end of the play he was out of bounds and it was not a TD. A player can do that with his feet by keeping them inbounds and crossing inside the goalline. It doesn't make sense that they called it a TD even after a review when the rule book says no airborne player touching a pylon is out of bounds??

[AUHansel 0]

I said from the end of the play he was out of bounds and it was not a TD. A player can do that with his feet by keeping them inbounds and crossing inside the goalline. It doesn't make sense that they called it a TD even after a review when the rule book says no airborne player touching a pylon is out of bounds??

It states in the rulebook that the player is out of bounds once he hits the pylon, but if the ball has crossed the plane or simultaneous crosses the plane, then it is a TD. That is the rule whether you understand it or not.

[AUHansel 0]

If someone can bring up the video, you will see that the player was airborne, with the ball over the plane of the goal line that by rule, extends beyond the sidelines. Therefore, when the ball crossed the plane, he was still inbounds. He was not declared out of bounds until his foot hit the pylon, after the ball had crossed the plane. By rule, if the ball has already crossed the plane, that player hits the pylon he is called out of bounds, but it is a TD if the ball crosses the plane before the player is out of bounds or simultaneous to the player going out of bounds. I don't know if I can explain this to you further. That is the rule and that is how it is interpreted. If you think otherwise, I'm sorry but you are wrong. I'm not trying to make anyone mad but that is the rule.

[AUHansel 0]

runswithsissors

if a player ran the ball and the ball NEVER broke the plane and the player simply touched a pylon with a hand, that should not be a TD. the plane does not extend beyond the sidelines.

I just showed you in the rule that the plane DOES extend beyond the sidelines.

[WarTiger 3,924]

I said from the end of the play he was out of bounds and it was not a TD. A player can do that with his feet by keeping them inbounds and crossing inside the goalline. It doesn't make sense that they called it a TD even after a review when the rule book says no airborne player touching a pylon is out of bounds??

It states in the rulebook that the player is out of bounds once he hits the pylon, but if the ball has crossed the plane or simultaneous crosses the plane, then it is a TD. That is the rule whether you understand it or not.

You are contradicting yourself. Above you said the ball never has to cross the plane for it to be a touchdown.. (which is WAY WRONG) now you are saying it does?

e. When a runner dives or jumps toward the sideline and is airborne as he

crosses the sideline, forward progress is determined by the position of

the ball as it crosses the sideline (A.R. 8-2-1-III and IV).

If this is the case, which it is....there is no way the goal line extended can be used to score.... It would have to be already across the sideline BEFORE reaching the goal line extended.

It doesn't say anything about him possibly breaking the plane of the goal line extended.

[AUHansel 0]

I said from the end of the play he was out of bounds and it was not a TD. A player can do that with his feet by keeping them inbounds and crossing inside the goalline. It doesn't make sense that they called it a TD even after a review when the rule book says no airborne player touching a pylon is out of bounds??

It states in the rulebook that the player is out of bounds once he hits the pylon, but if the ball has crossed the plane or simultaneous crosses the plane, then it is a TD. That is the rule whether you understand it or not.

You are contradicting yourself. Above you said the ball never has to cross the plane for it to be a touchdown.. (which is WAY WRONG) now you are saying it does?

e. When a runner dives or jumps toward the sideline and is airborne as he

crosses the sideline, forward progress is determined by the position of

the ball as it crosses the sideline (A.R. 8-2-1-III and IV).

If this is the case, which it is....there is no way the goal line extended can be used to score.... It would have to be already across the sideline BEFORE reaching the goal line extended.

It doesn't say anything about him possibly breaking the plane of the goal line extended.

How am I contradicting myself. I have stated from the beginning the the ball has to cross the goal line and that the plane of the goal line, extends beyond the sidelines. It does not, however, have to cross over the goal line over the pylon.

You stated that rule but that is a moot point. He went over the sideline but he then hit the pylon with his foot, rendering him out of bounds at that point, when his foot hit. At that point, the ball had already crossed the plane of the goal line, that extends beyond the sideline. THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT A TOUCH DOWN.

How can you say it doesn't say anything about him breaking the plane of the goal line extended. I have been tell you that the whole time. I brought out the rules that states that the goal line extends beyond the sidelines.

[FootballFanatic 4]

To be respectful to the people arguing in the thread, Tennesee didn't lodge a complaint and no one has argued the legitimacy of the touchdown.

It was a touchdown and its still a touchdown this morning at 3:30 pm central.

[WarTiger 3,924]

I said from the end of the play he was out of bounds and it was not a TD. A player can do that with his feet by keeping them inbounds and crossing inside the goalline. It doesn't make sense that they called it a TD even after a review when the rule book says no airborne player touching a pylon is out of bounds??

It states in the rulebook that the player is out of bounds once he hits the pylon, but if the ball has crossed the plane or simultaneous crosses the plane, then it is a TD. That is the rule whether you understand it or not.

You are contradicting yourself. Above you said the ball never has to cross the plane for it to be a touchdown.. (which is WAY WRONG) now you are saying it does?

e. When a runner dives or jumps toward the sideline and is airborne as he

crosses the sideline, forward progress is determined by the position of

the ball as it crosses the sideline (A.R. 8-2-1-III and IV).

If this is the case, which it is....there is no way the goal line extended can be used to score.... It would have to be already across the sideline BEFORE reaching the goal line extended.

It doesn't say anything about him possibly breaking the plane of the goal line extended.

How am I contradicting myself. I have stated from the beginning the the ball has to cross the goal line and that the plane of the goal line, extends beyond the sidelines. It does not, however, have to cross over the goal line over the pylon.

No you didn't.... here's what you said......look at post #40 above

Wow, how hard would it be to score if every touchdown had to pass over the pylon? Of course it doesn't.

Your words:

the rules(plural) that I posted are nothing of what you said. I'm am saying that if a player, is airborne and breaks the plane of the goal line, THAT EXTENDS BEYOND THE SIDELINES, all that player has to do is touch the pylon or go over it with a body part. THE BALL DOES NOT, I REPEAT DOES NOT, HAVE TO CROSS OVER ANY PART OF THE ENDZONE.

You stated that rule but that is a moot point. He went over the sideline but he then hit the pylon with his foot, rendering him out of bounds at that point, when his foot hit. At that point, the ball had already crossed the plane of the goal line, that extends beyond the sideline. THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT A TOUCH DOWN.

well, it wasn't his foot that hit the pylon, it was his left hand.

How can you say it doesn't say anything about him breaking the plane of the goal line extended. I have been tell you that the whole time. I brought out the rules that states that the goal line extends beyond the sidelines.

If what you are saying is true then why isn't this particular play that is in the NCAA rule book ruled a touchdown?

IV. The ball, in possession of airborne runner A21, crosses the sideline

above the one-yard line, penetrates the plane of the goal line

extended and is then declared dead out of bounds in possession of

A21. RULING: Ball is declared out of bounds at the one-yard line

(Rules 2-11-1 and 4-2-4-e).

According to the play it crossed the plane of the goal line extended THEN is declared dead and out of bounds, yet it isn't ruled a touchdown. Ironically it comes back to the ONE yard line where it crossed the sideline. For it to even reach the goal line extended it has to cross the sideline first....