Lies prompt Swift Boat Commander to speakout

[TexasTiger 13,006]

Navy Commander, Journalist, Backs Kerry on Vietnam

 Aug 21, 12:33 PM (ET)

By Carol Giacomo

PITTSBURGH (Reuters) - An American journalist who commanded a boat alongside John Kerry in Vietnam broke a 35-year silence on Saturday and defended the Democratic presidential candidate against Republican critics of his military service.

Weighing in on what has become the most bitterly divisive issue of the 2004 campaign for the White House, William Rood of the Chicago Tribune said the tales told by Kerry's detractors are untrue.

"There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago -- three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969," he wrote in a story that appeared on the newspaper's Web site on Saturday.

"One is John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other."

Before now, wanting to put memories of war and killing behind him, Rood had refused all requests for interviews on the subject, including from his own newspaper. "But Kerry's critics, armed with stories I know to be untrue, have charged that the accounts of what happened were overblown." he wrote.

"The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us.

"It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there," he added.

http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/38124...46|reuters.html

[tiger88 934]

I'm not saying the guys lying but I notice a couple of things:

1. He was awarded a star the same day Kerry was, if Kerry's story is a little embellished(not saying it is), his could be suspect as well. He could be trying to cover his own a$$.

2. If you're gonna throw your hat in the ring on this one then come in with the hat. I don't wan't any BS excuse about wanting to put the war behind him. If he can throw this little piece of info. out surely he can be willing to be questioned about his comments instead of trying to hide from interviews.

[TexasTiger 13,006]

I'm not saying the guys lying but I notice a couple of things:

1. He was awarded a star the same day Kerry was, if Kerry's story is a little embellished(not saying it is), his could be suspect as well. He could be trying to cover his own a$$.

2. If you're gonna throw your hat in the ring on this one then come in with the hat. I don't wan't any BS excuse about wanting to put the war behind him. If he can throw this little piece of info. out surely he can be willing to be questioned about his comments instead of trying to hide from interviews.

Those who refuse to believe any of Kerry's supporters who were closer to the action will say things like this:

1. He was awarded a star the same day Kerry was, if Kerry's story is a little embellished(not saying it is), his could be suspect as well. He could be trying to cover his own a$$.

One of the unfortunate aspects of this whole matter is that it calls into doubt validity of almost every soldier's medals, e.g. if you can't count on the official record of events in regard to Kerry, then the official records aren't credible. These guys served under dangerous conditions others avoided and now they have fellow Americans and fellow vets questioning the validity of the medals they earned over 30 years ago. This is truly shameful.

So if he started going on cable news shows, there would columns about him by Novak, Goldberg, Coulter, etc., because his on the spot testimony differed from what they want people to believe about a guy they hate. I don't blame him.

[tiger88 934]

tt,

I'm not saying any medals aren't valid, because I really don't have a freaking clue whether they are are not. There is no doubt in my mind that war medals sometimes appear out of nowhere because of embellished stories and what not, but I don't know if that is the case here or not.

Your calling this shameful shows that you have a closed mind on the subject. You have already decided that all these 240 swift boat guys are politically motivated liars. I myself am not near so quick to write these guys off. I find it nearly impossible to believe that they all just made up the story. I have to believe that many could be telling the truth and I believe it is possible there were some shenanigans going on with kerrys medals. I mean when I hear of a guy winning three purple hearts I expect to see some battle scarred veteran and kerry just doesn't seem to fit the bill. I'm not saying he didn't earn all his medals just that I have doubts.

Your assertion that attacking the validity of these medals and winning would cast doubt on all medals is nonsense. Thats like saying well, this one doctor got convicted of malpractice, therefor all doctors are incompetent. If these medals were invalid then their existence cheapens all other medals. It is worth looking into. If the charges are found false, then it will make kerry much stronger.

Your excuses for him not wanting to go public other than this statement are just that, weak excuses. Is him scared of the big bad media? If so he shoulda kept his mouth shut. Now he just looks like kerry has for weeks, like a man with something to hide.

[TexasTiger 13,006]

tt,

I'm not saying any medals aren't valid, because I really don't have a freaking clue whether they are are not. There is no doubt in my mind that war medals sometimes appear out of nowhere because of embellished stories and what not, but I don't know if that is the case here or not.

Your calling this shameful shows that you have a closed mind on the subject. You have already decided that all these 240 swift boat guys are politically motivated liars. I myself am not near so quick to write these guys off. I find it nearly impossible to believe that they all just made up the story. I have to believe that many could be telling the truth and I believe it is possible there were some shenanigans going on with kerrys medals. I mean when I hear of a guy winning three purple hearts I expect to see some battle scarred veteran and kerry just doesn't seem to fit the bill. I'm not saying he didn't earn all his medals just that I have doubts.

Your assertion that attacking the validity of these medals and winning would cast doubt on all medals is nonsense. Thats like saying well, this one doctor got convicted of malpractice, therefor all doctors are incompetent. If these medals were invalid then their existence cheapens all other medals. It is worth looking into. If the charges are found false, then it will make kerry much stronger.

Your excuses for him not wanting to go public other than this statement are just that, weak excuses. Is him scared of the big bad media? If so he shoulda kept his mouth shut. Now he just looks like kerry has for weeks, like a man with something to hide.

Maybe you need to open your mind and do a little homework first before slamming me. I'm not closeminded on much of anything if someone offers a better argument. I've looked at what these guys have offered and haven't found much but contradictions and questionable motives. You throw out the number 240, but who amongst these guys offers first-hand knowledge of anything? A relatively small number were in the general vicinity during the incident for which Kerry won the Bronze star. The number is meaningless. Here's one of them who was actually in the ad:

In the ad, French says: "I served with John Kerry. . . . He is lying about his record."

...

French, in an interview Thursday, said Kerry lied about the circumstances that led to one of his Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star. Kerry received a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts commanding a Swift boat in Vietnam.

French said he is relying on the accounts of three other veterans who were friends of his at the time. A fourth veteran with whom French was acquainted corroborated their accounts.

"I was not a witness to these events but my friends were," said French, who was awarded two Bronze Stars during the war. "I believe these people. These are people I served with."

You really think this is evidence?

I know someone who knew Bush in Houston in the seventies who says he loved his cocaine. I believe that person. Maybe I should make an ad and get a few hundred people to sign a letter.

What specific things did specific people claim to witness that shed direct relevance on this issue?

John O'Neill was there after Kerry. His co-author wasn't there at all. Only one guy who ever served under Kerry has joined the group, Steve Gardner. Gardner complains that Kerry once threatened to court martial him for killing a civilian.

We have Thurlow. Thurlow's account is contradicted by his own citation and the citation of another member of Thurlow's crew. Thurlow was the senior officer that day and would have typically written the after action report. Thurlow recieved the citation then, it claimed all boats were under heavy fire and he never disputed it for 35 years. If you want to find his version credible after considering all the facts, go ahead. I have considered it and I don't find it credible.

You immediately said if this guy supports Kerry's view perhaps it is to cover his own ass. How does somebody in his position win with that argument? He's immediately suspect on a matter that can't be absolutely proven at this point.

Kerry won several medals. Which are supposedly illegitimate? Who has offered any first-hand knowledge regarding the Silver Medal which Rood offers an opinion on? Unlike Kerry's detractors, Rood says that is the only medal scenario he can speak to. These SBVT guys claim they are all suspect based on what?

What is fraudulent? Kerry recieved three purple hearts for minor injuries. He has never claimed to have been seriously injured. Kerry recieved a bronze for pulling Rassman out of the river. No one disputes that happened. Kerry recieved a Silver Star for beaching his boat, running down a VC with a rocket launcher and killing him. Who disputes that? Even O'Neil said it showed courage, in his opinion, however, even though he was not there, he didn't think it deserved the silver star, but maybe a bronze. That's the quibble?

What specific factual allegation do you want me to consider that you find so compelling? I'm listening. I've been listening which is why I'm pretty well-versed on the facts. Can you honestly say you are?

Do you really think this is a proper analogy?:

Your assertion that attacking the validity of these medals and winning would cast doubt on all medals is nonsense. Thats like saying well, this one doctor got convicted of malpractice, therefor all doctors are incompetent.

Kerry was awarded 5 major medals in combat. Each were given following an official process designed to assure that such medals were properly awarded. Was that process always perfect? I certainly doubt it. But was it so flawed that John Kerry was able to manipulate it and get five medals in four months? If it was, that is a condemnation of the medal awarding process that does call the validity of medals awarded under that process into question. If they were just making the case that one of the medals was suspect, they would have more crediblity-- that is if they had people who could provide sufficient evidence.

Now Kerry is asked to somehow prove he actually earned them, 35 years later when the Navy itself has not questioned a single one of them? Some of these Navy men are connected. If they think they have a case, why not take it to the Navy, prove their case and have justice done? I have no problem with them trying to prove their case in a legal tribunal.

If anyone thinks Kerry has lied about them, sue him. Adm. Hoffman could have done that if he disputed his characterization in Brinkley's book. Instead, he goes from praising Kerry not so long ago, to heading up this group.

Everyone doesn't care to get caught up in a media circus. That is motivation enough to not come forward at all. Rood was actually there, came forward with his version and you, who claim to be open on the issue, are suggesting he's a "man with something to hide." That is shameful, too.

[DKW 86 7,440]

Smoke and Mirrors again.

In the ad, French says: "I served with John Kerry. . . . He is lying about his record." And he said absolutely no more in the ad, therefore he did not comment on this one day specifically. You are trying to make a mountain out of NOTHING......

French, in an interview Thursday, said Kerry lied about the circumstances that led to one of his Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star. Kerry received a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts commanding a Swift boat in Vietnam.

French said he is relying on the accounts of three other veterans who were friends of his at the time. A fourth veteran with whom French was acquainted corroborated their accounts. Lets see, that is four versus Kerry and all the rest are liars and you know this because you must have been there.Again, if anyone doesnt kiss Kerry's a$$ then smear him for the rest of his life, ruin his name, etc. How dare he not kiss Kerry's butt...

"I was not a witness to these events but my friends were," said French, who was awarded two Bronze Stars during the war. "I believe these people. These are people I served with."

[TexasTiger 13,006]

Smoke and Mirrors again.

In the ad, French says: "I served with John Kerry. . . . He is lying about his record." And he said absolutely no more in the ad, therefore he did not comment on this one day specifically. You are trying to make a mountain out of NOTHING......

French, in an interview Thursday, said Kerry lied about the circumstances that led to one of his Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star. Kerry received a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts commanding a Swift boat in Vietnam.

French said he is relying on the accounts of three other veterans who were friends of his at the time. A fourth veteran with whom French was acquainted corroborated their accounts. Lets see, that is four versus Kerry and all the rest are liars and you know this because you must have been there.Again, if anyone doesnt kiss Kerry's a$$ then smear him for the rest of his life, ruin his name, etc. How dare he not kiss Kerry's butt...

"I was not a witness to these events but my friends were," said French, who was awarded two Bronze Stars during the war. "I believe these people. These are people I served with."

Then let his friends be the ones that come forward. His hearsay is meaningless. He has no first-hand knowledge on which to base his assertion, "He is lying about his record."

[DKW 86 7,440]

Link

Saturday, Aug. 21, 2004 9:49 p.m. EDT

Kerry Defender Rood Contradicted by Crewmate

In a development that the establishment press is treating like bombshell news, former Swift Boat commander William B. Rood has stepped forward to defend John Kerry against the charge that he exaggerated his valor during the Vietnam War in descriptions of a foiled February 1969 ambush on his boat.

But unmentioned in coverage of Rood's story so far is one salient fact: His account is sharply contradicted by one of Kerry's own crewmates, who complained eight years ago that Kerry took credit for bravery he didn't deserve – in an action that earned him the Silver Star.

Story Continues Below

In Sunday editions of the Chicago Tribune, Rood backs Kerry's claim that he singlehandedly took out a Viet Cong attacker who planned to ambush his Swift Boat with a grenade launcher along the Bay Hap River.

Recalling what he saw from a different Swift Boat, Rood writes:

"Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, jumped ashore and chased a VC behind a hooch – a thatched hut – maybe 15 yards inland from the ambush site.

"Some who were there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise. Recollections of those who go through experiences like that frequently differ."

They sure do.

Unmentioned by Rood in his Chicago Tribune report is the account of Tom Bellodeau, who, unlike Rood, was actually aboard Kerry's boat when the VC in question leveled his grenade launcher at them.

"You know, I shot that guy," Bellodeau told the Boston Globe during a 1996 interview, correcting an earlier Globe report that echoed Kerry's claim that he alone had neutralized the enemy ambusher.

"He jumped up, he looked right at me, I looked at him," Bellodeau continued. "You could tell he was trying to decide whether to shoot or not. I expected the guy on Kerry's boat with the twin 50s to blast him, but he couldn't depress the guns far enough. We were up on the bank."

Only after the enemy soldier was wounded, said Bellodeau, did Kerry leap from the boat onto the beach and pursue him around the back of a nearby hut, where the would-be president finished him off.

Echoing ex-Commander Rood's version, Kerry's Silver Star citation credits him alone for taking down the Viet Cong soldier, making no mention whatsoever of Bellodeau, who has died in the intervening years.

"An enemy soldier sprang up from his position not 10 feet from Swift Boat 94 and fled," the combat award reads. "Without hesitation Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hootch and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber."

And even though Kerry spoke at Bellodeau's funeral, he has done nothing to incorporate his crewmate's role in subsequent accounts of the encounter with the enemy fighter.

In a 1996 interview, Kerry made no mention of the first shot whatsoever.

"It was either going to be him or it was going to be us. It was that simple. I don't know why it wasn't us – I mean, to this day. He had a rocket pointed right at our boat. He stood up out of a hole, and none of us saw him until he was standing in front of us, aiming a rocket right at us, and, for whatever reason, he didn't pull the trigger – he turned and ran."

When pressed for more details, the top Democrat said: "I just won't talk about all of it. I don't and can't. The things that really turned me I've never told anybody. Nobody would understand."

Within hours of the Chicago Tribune's Saturday afternoon announcement that William Rood had decided to go public with his Kerry defense, more than 1,500 news outlets were touting the story on their Web sites, with the Associated Press offering no fewer than 10 updates.

None of them mentioned Kerry's crewmate Tom Bellodeau.

[DKW 86 7,440]

Smoke and Mirrors again.

In the ad, French says: "I served with John Kerry. . . . He is lying about his record." And he said absolutely no more in the ad, therefore he did not comment on this one day specifically. You are trying to make a mountain out of NOTHING......

French, in an interview Thursday, said Kerry lied about the circumstances that led to one of his Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star. Kerry received a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts commanding a Swift boat in Vietnam.

French said he is relying on the accounts of three other veterans who were friends of his at the time. A fourth veteran with whom French was acquainted corroborated their accounts. Lets see, that is four versus Kerry and all the rest are liars and you know this because you must have been there.Again, if anyone doesnt kiss Kerry's a$$ then smear him for the rest of his life, ruin his name, etc. How dare he not kiss Kerry's butt...

"I was not a witness to these events but my friends were," said French, who was awarded two Bronze Stars during the war. "I believe these people. These are people I served with."

Then let his friends be the ones that come forward. His hearsay is meaningless. He has no first-hand knowledge on which to base his assertion, "He is lying about his record."

He was relying on his friends about that one day and that was all.

Good Grief Charlie Brown, READ these things please!!!

[TexasTiger 13,006]

Smoke and Mirrors again.

In the ad, French says: "I served with John Kerry. . . . He is lying about his record." And he said absolutely no more in the ad, therefore he did not comment on this one day specifically. You are trying to make a mountain out of NOTHING......

French, in an interview Thursday, said Kerry lied about the circumstances that led to one of his Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star. Kerry received a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts commanding a Swift boat in Vietnam.

French said he is relying on the accounts of three other veterans who were friends of his at the time. A fourth veteran with whom French was acquainted corroborated their accounts. Lets see, that is four versus Kerry and all the rest are liars and you know this because you must have been there.Again, if anyone doesnt kiss Kerry's a$$ then smear him for the rest of his life, ruin his name, etc. How dare he not kiss Kerry's butt...

"I was not a witness to these events but my friends were," said French, who was awarded two Bronze Stars during the war. "I believe these people. These are people I served with."

Then let his friends be the ones that come forward. His hearsay is meaningless. He has no first-hand knowledge on which to base his assertion, "He is lying about his record."

He was relying on his friends about that one day and that was all.

Good Grief Charlie Brown, READ these things please!!!

Are you saying he offers first-hand knowledge to any of the disputed medal scenarios?

[DKW 86 7,440]

Havent gotten to read the book yet. All I know is they are criticizing him for a comment on the ad, that says nothing about that one day.

[tiger88 934]

tt,

You keep saying that I am saying many things that I am actually just posing a question for.

I never said he or kerry have anything to hide. I have said when you ignore the issue, that is an important one, you look like you may have something to hide.

Also I have never said that all of his medals were in question. Heck they may all be valid for all I know and it wouldn't surprise me at all. I have only heard of a couple of his medals being questioned at all. You overblow your argument about any of kerry's medals being discounted and then discrediting all medals in some way. Thats is a lame argument that you partially construct out of thin air yourself.

[TexasTiger 13,006]

tt,

You keep saying that I am saying many things that I am actually just posing a question for.

I never said he or kerry have anything to hide. I have said when you ignore the issue, that is an important one, you look like you may have something to hide.

Also I have never said that all of his medals were in question. Heck they may all be valid for all I know and it wouldn't surprise me at all. I have only heard of a couple of his medals being questioned at all. You overblow your argument about any of kerry's medals being discounted and then discrediting all medals in some way. Thats is a lame argument that you partially construct out of thin air yourself.

Well, I was in the process of answering the more reasonable post you had a few minutes ago before you edited it. In that one you seemed sincerely interested in the truth. Guess you changed your mind. Suit yourself.

[tiger88 934]

Well, I realized that I didn't think it out properly and that I was going along with what you said I was saying when in actuality I hadn't said those things just posed some questions.

I coulda left the part in about I believe they should narrow the swift boat guys down to those who have direct knowledge of the circumstances if I had known it would bolster your ego a little.