Political Reality in 2019...

[alexava 6,973]

8 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

I had an employee arrested by HPD a while back. He was nowhere near the crime scene at the time and we told the police that. We, at least three professional business people, told the police we knew it was not him because he was on his way to work at the time and he came in early and we knew he did not have time to be involved in any crime.  He and his fiance worked for us and they were the best people around. They arrested him for answering the description anyway. Want to guess the description? YBM. He is why I use that term. He was guilty of nothing but went thru the drama of a bogus arrest because he was guilty of being YBM The description said the kid was in a red hoodie. My employee was not wearing a red hoodie that day. It did not matter, he was YBM< and arrested anyway.

I know what you are saying. I worked in a Rescue Mission as part of my work with my church. I understand that often, you have to commit 3 crimes to get one to stick and get consequences. But there are just as many,  i say more, times when the arrested is guilty of nothing more than being arrested for being black. I am no BLM advocate. I just live in reality.

Was your employee convicted? 

[Mims44 1,869]

31 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

So doing illegal drugs should be okay.  Are other illegal drugs okay as well?  Beer and tobacco are not illegal.  What about trying to sell marijuana?  We are back to the marijuana argument because a certain segment of society thinks it is okay to break that law.  Take drugs out of the equation and tell me which laws need to be allowed to be broken so that our prisons are not full of poor innocent youth who just made a bad choice.

I feel like you are waiting on me to lob ya a easy softball over the middle, and it's been a great day for me so I'll oblige and spread the love.

You got me! All of them, complete anarchy is the key. Thinking weed should be looked at the same as our other legal consumer drugs means I secretly want rape, murder, and torture to be legal and I'm going to attain that goal through the guise of simply wanting less populated prisons.

 

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

8 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

I feel like you are waiting on me to lob ya a easy softball over the middle, and it's been a great day for me so I'll oblige and spread the love.

You got me! All of them, complete anarchy is the key. Thinking weed should be looked at the same as our other legal consumer drugs means I secretly want rape, murder, and torture to be legal and I'm going to attain that goal through the guise of simply wanting less populated prisons.

 

Look I am not trying to be vindictive or bait you into anything.  When people say that this country jails to many people then one must ask how does that happen.  It happens because people are breaking the law.  What laws do people suggest we change?  How does changing these laws affect society?  Are we changing these laws simply because a certain group of people can't abide by them?  Changing laws for a certain few is about as brilliant as no child left behind in the educational system.  Only in America will we lower the educational level for all to the lowest denominator.  Until the laws change, marijuana is illegal to have in your possession or to sell.  I hope for the betterment of society that it stays that way.  I'm not going to change my mind because some people see the laws enforcing it as being too harsh.  Do I think a youthful offender should be doomed forever for smoking weed? Heck no.  But he or she should learn the lesson and not repeat it time and time again. 

[johnnyAU 3,630]

6 hours ago, homersapien said:

One mistaken incident hardly erases 400 years of racial tradition.

 

 

Did I say it did? You again read what you'd like to read.

[Mims44 1,869]

2 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

Look I am not trying to be vindictive or bait you into anything.  When people say that this country jails to many people then one must ask how does that happen.  It happens because people are breaking the law.  What laws do people suggest we change?  How does changing these laws affect society?  Are we changing these laws simply because a certain group of people can't abide by them?  Changing laws for a certain few is about as brilliant as no child left behind in the educational system.  Only in America will we lower the educational level for all to the lowest denominator.  Until the laws change, marijuana is illegal to have in your possession or to sell.  I hope for the betterment of society that it stays that way.  I'm not going to change my mind because some people see the laws enforcing it as being too harsh.  Do I think a youthful offender should be doomed forever for smoking weed? Heck no.  But he or she should learn the lesson and not repeat it time and time again. 

1st off, we're arguing from separate but similar subjects. I am for the legalization of marijuana because I don't see a reason for it to be illegal. I have never used it, and even if it was legalized I probably would never use it. I am happy to see it being legal medically in so many places however, my wife works oncology and has told me numerous times how much it has helped some of her patients with the negative effects of chemo. Add into that, that again it seems to me to be in the same vein as alcohol and tobacco products (which I do use) and I just don't understand why people can be so gung ho about giving similar sentences for marijuana as they do for criminal offenses that actually harm others or others property.

That less people would be filling the prisons for it is just an added bonus.

[alexava 6,973]

1 hour ago, Mims44 said:

1st off, we're arguing from separate but similar subjects. I am for the legalization of marijuana because I don't see a reason for it to be illegal. I have never used it, and even if it was legalized I probably would never use it. I am happy to see it being legal medically in so many places however, my wife works oncology and has told me numerous times how much it has helped some of her patients with the negative effects of chemo. Add into that, that again it seems to me to be in the same vein as alcohol and tobacco products (which I do use) and I just don't understand why people can be so gung ho about giving similar sentences for marijuana as they do for criminal offenses that actually harm others or others property.

That less people would be filling the prisons for it is just an added bonus.

I have no problem with marijuana legalization. I am quite sure it would not help prison populations at all though. 

[DKW 86 7,419]

11 hours ago, alexava said:

Was your employee convicted? 

Why would that matter? Or do you think being hauled off to jail for a crime you did not commit and werent even available to commit is okay?

1) The fact that he was arrested at all, is an issue by itself.

2) There is a whole other issue where we arrest the person and by whatever means they end up in jail.

3) Third Problem is why arrest people for victimless crimes anyway. Dont you busy-bodies have something else to do with your time?

[DKW 86 7,419]

6 hours ago, alexava said:

I have no problem with marijuana legalization. I am quite sure it would not help prison populations at all though. 

You are not making any sense here. That is exactly what we have been talking about.

[alexava 6,973]

4 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

You are not making any sense here. That is exactly what we have been talking about.

You sir refuse to understand it. It’s there if you want to. 

[alexava 6,973]

4 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Why would that matter? Or do you think being hauled off to jail for a crime you did not commit and werent even available to commit is okay?

1) The fact that he was arrested at all, is an issue by itself.

2) There is a whole other issue where we arrest the person and by whatever means they end up in jail.

3) Third Problem is why arrest people for victimless crimes anyway. Dont you busy-bodies have something else to do with your time?

You didn’t say this was a victimless crime. I would be interested in what that is. I hate your employee had this experience. It sucks. But you claim he was only arrested because he was black  . And that is often the case. My question to you is was there a crime committed by a YBM? Cops get a bad rap for searching for black suspects. When in actuality they are searching for the guilty party  who IS BLACK. Most of the time people who witness crimes can at least get the race of the suspect correct. They can change clothes, vehicles destinations and other variables but skin color is easy to identify and hard to change. With exceptions of course. 

[DKW 86 7,419]

On 1/3/2019 at 6:31 AM, DKW 86 said:

Where in hell does theft enter into Non-violent VICTIMLESS  Crime?

Please pay attention. 

It is post 6 in the thread and a response to you. We have:

DECLINING VIOLENT CRIME RATE,
YET HAVE INCARCERATION RATES THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN HIGHER.

We are incarcerating people for non-violent mostly victimless crimes. 

[homersapien 11,371]

13 hours ago, alexava said:

I have no problem with marijuana legalization. I am quite sure it would not help prison populations at all though. 

 

 

More people were arrested last year over pot than for murder, rape, aggravated assault and robbery — combined

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/26/more-people-were-arrested-last-year-over-pot-than-for-murder-rape-aggravated-assault-and-robbery-combined/?utm_term=.e0df8db2dd12

 

[homersapien 11,371]

18 hours ago, johnnyAU said:

Did I say it did? You again read what you'd like to read.

No, you implied it; as if a single incident refuted the norm.

[DKW 86 7,419]

2 hours ago, alexava said:

You didn’t say this was a victimless crime. I would be interested in what that is. I hate your employee had this experience. It sucks. But you claim he was only arrested because he was black  . And that is often the case. My question to you is was there a crime committed by a YBM? Cops get a bad rap for searching for black suspects. When in actuality they are searching for the guilty party  who IS BLACK. Most of the time people who witness crimes can at least get the race of the suspect correct. They can change clothes, vehicles destinations and other variables but skin color is easy to identify and hard to change. With exceptions of course. 

Whether that crime was victimless or not (purse snatching) is immaterial. My point 3 was a reference back to the Opening of the Thread.

He didnt do it. He was innocent of it. He couldnt have done it if the HPD had listened to us. Yet he was publicly arrested and humiliated. He was detained against his will. He was proactively and aggressively made into a victim himself. He will now have an arrest record and court costs for something he was totally innocent of doing. Arresting ANY YBM because a witness could only say it was a YBM is crazy. You cant arrest all YBM or all YWM every time someone adds that to a description.

[alexava 6,973]

7 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Whether that crime was victimless or not (purse snatching) is immaterial. My point 3 was a reference back to the Opening of the Thread.

He didnt do it. He was innocent of it. He couldnt have done it if the HPD had listened to us. Yet he was publicly arrested and humiliated. He was detained against his will. He was proactively and aggressively made into a victim himself. He will now have an arrest record and court costs for something he was totally innocent of doing. Arresting ANY YBM because a witness could only say it was a YBM is crazy. You cant arrest all YBM or all YWM every time someone adds that to a description.

I’m sure they just grabbed the first YBM and arrested him and wanted to convict him knowing he was innocent? That’s how they always do it. They f——— up. They probably didn’t believe you. Plain and simple. Be more pissed that a purse got snatched. Not that police are trying to solve it. 

[johnnyAU 3,630]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

No, you implied it; as if a single incident refuted the norm.

No, rather you and your ideology inferred that, and it doesn't surprise anyone. 

My reference is was to a public and very recent tragedy, and also points to a prime example of misguided racial profiling. It was a situation, like the example that started this thread, where belief was overriding anecdotal evidence.  Assumed guilty until proven innocent. 

 

[homersapien 11,371]

49 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

No, rather you and your ideology inferred that, and it doesn't surprise anyone. 

My reference is was to a public and very recent tragedy, and also points to a prime example of misguided racial profiling. It was a situation, like the example that started this thread, where belief was overriding anecdotal evidence.  Assumed guilty until proven innocent. 

 

  

[DKW 86 7,419]

2 hours ago, alexava said:

I’m sure they just grabbed the first YBM and arrested him and wanted to convict him knowing he was innocent? That’s how they always do it. They f——— up. They probably didn’t believe you. Plain and simple. Be more pissed that a purse got snatched. Not that police are trying to solve it. 

I am happy that purse snatching is already rapidly declining.

Back to the fricked up real world.

Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey calls for gas tax, new prisons

 

[alexava 6,973]

I will cede you Huntsville and Madison county have some morons and crooks in LE. They still gotta Work purse snatchings. 

[DKW 86 7,419]

And the point of this thread was this:

Violent crime in America is down in a big way, YET Incarceration Rates have never been higher.

Our people dont commit crimes at any higher rate than the rest of the world. We have an irrational need to punish crimes that in many parts of the world laws would go unlegislated, laws unwritten, laws unenforced, prisons unfilled. In America, even with record prison populations as a percentage of the population, we are even today looking to build more prisons. WTF are we doing here?

We are acting like some overzealous hall monitor in third grade. We are charging, arresting, and locking up everybody we can possibly just for the FOR PROFIT PRISON INDUSTRY. 

You want to do some good arresting people? Start on Wall Street with the predatory bankers and those that wrote all that bad paper back in 2008 and prior. That would be an outstandingly good use of our time and prisons.

[channonc 466]

On 1/17/2019 at 1:35 AM, DKW 86 said:

We are acting like some overzealous hall monitor in third grade. We are charging, arresting, and locking up everybody we can possibly just for the FOR PROFIT PRISON INDUSTRY.

This to me is the most bothersome part. I believe profiting off of prisons to be completely immoral. But beware, the private prison industry is already one step ahead of everyone. They know there is a movement on prison reform so they need to change their model. They are now lobbying states on legislation that moves people out of prisons and into parole and house arrest.

HuffPo: The Private Prison Industry has a Backup Plan

City Lab: Private Prison Industry's New Criminal Justice Ventures

[alexava 6,973]

10 hours ago, channonc said:

This to me is the most bothersome part. I believe profiting off of prisons to be completely immoral. But beware, the private prison industry is already one step ahead of everyone. They know there is a movement on prison reform so they need to change their model. They are now lobbying states on legislation that moves people out of prisons and into parole and house arrest.

HuffPo: The Private Prison Industry has a Backup Plan

City Lab: Private Prison Industry's New Criminal Justice Ventures

Should be banned nationwide.