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homersapien

The Fox News moment that revealed a dangerously confused president

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Trump wants Americans to flock to churches on Easter Sunday.

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Why Trump’s goal to end social distancing by Easter is so dangerous

Experts are clear: Pulling back early could lead to more infections and more deaths.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/24/21193165/coronavirus-trump-press-briefing-social-distancing-experts

 

"When pressed on the Easter timeline, Trump suggested it was based on a gut feeling, not on hard data. Easter “is a beautiful time,” Trump said. “It would be a beautiful timeline.”

Edited by homersapien

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He actually said we will still practice social distancing:

“Our people want to return to work,” Trump wrote Monday on Twitter. “They will practice Social Distancing and all else, and Seniors will be watched over protectively & lovingly. We can do two things together. THE CURE CANNOT BE WORSE (by far) THAN THE PROBLEM! Congress MUST ACT NOW. We will come back strong!”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/trump-i-would-love-to-have-the-country-opened-up-by-easter

This does not mean Trump is going to open the economy by Easter; he is an optimist and pushes his people to strive to meet his goals.  It doesn’t mean he will do it if the numbers aren’t right. He listens to Dr Fauci and his staff, but it is his decision. 

There was an article in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday questioning if the Corvid-19 is as deadly as it seems.  It basically states that there are a lot more people that have been infected that are being reported which would lower the death rate.  If the scientists can come up with a test to see if you have already had the virus and are immune it would go a long way to understanding our situation.  I choose to be optimistic going forward.

I don’t have a link.

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1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Trump wants Americans to flock to churches on Easter Sunday.

I get the "getting back to work" thing. It's probably not going to happen and it's careless and potentially disastrous just to talk about it in those terms, but people are hurting badly without work.

The churches thing? Christahmighty. It's all just one big game show to him. 

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In the first place, Trump cannot direct the country to "go back to work" without the governors supporting it.  He is simply setting the stage to claim later that it wasn't his fault the economy tanked into a recession - which is almost inevitable.  Just wait, his campaign speech will feature statements like "if they had only listened to me, we wouldn't be in this recession".

The only thing that will prevent that is if a few Republican governors actually do follow his lead only to have the infection and death rate spike in their state. Trump is desperately afraid the tanking economy will lead to a recession that threatens his reelection.  He is more than willing to risk the death of additional thousands of citizens on his reelection chances. 

It's always been about him instead of the welfare of the American people.  That's exactly why he wasted weeks of time downplaying the risk of coronovirus. He was in denial because he didn't want to hurt the economy - the lynchpin of his reelection appeal.

That wasted time destroyed any possibility of stopping what is about to happen - hundreds - if not thousands - of people dying because of the shortfall of hospital/ventilator capacity.  Yes, the embargo of flights helped, but juxtaposed against the subsequent inaction, it didn't really have an appreciable affect.  Had he followed up appropriately with an urgent effort to prepare, we'd be in a very different place today.

Edited by homersapien

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2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

He actually said we will still practice social distancing:

“Our people want to return to work,” Trump wrote Monday on Twitter. “They will practice Social Distancing and all else, and Seniors will be watched over protectively & lovingly. We can do two things together. THE CURE CANNOT BE WORSE (by far) THAN THE PROBLEM! Congress MUST ACT NOW. We will come back strong!”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/trump-i-would-love-to-have-the-country-opened-up-by-easter

This does not mean Trump is going to open the economy by Easter; he is an optimist and pushes his people to strive to meet his goals.  It doesn’t mean he will do it if the numbers aren’t right. He listens to Dr Fauci and his staff, but it is his decision. 

There was an article in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday questioning if the Corvid-19 is as deadly as it seems.  It basically states that there are a lot more people that have been infected that are being reported which would lower the death rate.  If the scientists can come up with a test to see if you have already had the virus and are immune it would go a long way to understanding our situation.  I choose to be optimistic going forward.

I don’t have a link.

We don't know what the fatality rate is, other than most research has indicated indicated it is significantly higher than that of common flu viruses and depending on location, age of the victim and "other factors", it is much higher.

  https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

Also it appears that transmissability rate is much higher. ( https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200214111519.htm

Plus, the mechanism of morbidity/mortality with coronovirus is severe respiratory distress (pneumonia) for which the only treatment is ventilator therapy.  And considering the above, the number of available ventilators in this country is woefully low. (The governor of South Carolina recently said we have only 1,100 ventilators in the whole state.)

We as a country - except for perhaps New York - have yet to hit the predicted surge of cases - the "bell curve" increase - that is predicted by epidemiology given the current state of the pandemic.  When that happens - and there is absolutely no reason to expect it wont - there will likely be a severe shortage of respirators required to handle the life-or-death cases.

My wife and I are retired and almost 70.  We are relatively healthy but have a few risk factors such as diabetes.  We are very well situated, already living in isolation on a mountain with a lot of acreage around us and we have plenty of supplies. Holing up on our place hasn't (yet) presented a problem.

However, the obvious danger is that we might eventually acquire the virus - along with the severe complications - at some point in the future. (My supplies are sufficient for weeks and maybe a few months but not for the year or more it will take for a vaccine to be developed.   Therefore, depending on the size of the bell curve and it's timing, there is a chance we could acquire the virus while hospital/ventilator capacity is still overwhelmed

If so, that means for us to get the necessary therapy, someone else would have to be taken off a ventilator, which obviously isn't going to happen.

In fact, as I discussed with my wife, it's not so much as hoping we don't get infected as much as the severity of the symptoms after we do. (assume the possibility of infection will remain relatively high until a vaccine is developed.)  If our symptoms are severe, then it's a matter of timing with the availability of acute therapy treatment (ventilators).

So, bottom line, I can "choose" to be optimistic also, and the odds are probably in our favor as individuals, but the scientific facts and the reality of the country's preparedness don't necessarily support that optimism from a national standpoint.  There is a real chance a lot of people will die before a vaccine is available. 

Frankly, Trump doesn't have a clue.  All he understands and cares about are his reelection chances. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Therefore, depending on the size of the bell curve and it's timing, there is a chance we could acquire the virus while hospital/ventilator capacity is still overwhelmed

It's shocking that people are still ignorant of this. This curve thing is incredibly simple and easy to understand. Alas...

 

9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Frankly, Trump doesn't have a clue.  All he understands and cares about are his reelection chances. 

He sure locked up any evangelicals who might've been wavering with that "fill up the churches" bit. 

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2 hours ago, homersapien said:
5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

We don't know what the fatality rate is, other than most research has indicated indicated it is significantly higher than that of common flu viruses and depending on location, age of the victim and "other factors", it is much higher.

I know the death rate is not known, but the article from the WSJ indicated it could be a lot less than just simply dividing the known cases by the deaths. And nowhere did I say we are not in dire shape.  The fact that it spreads so fast could overwhelm our healthcare system very soon.

 

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

So, bottom line, I can "choose" to be optimistic also, and the odds are probably in our favor as individuals, but the scientific facts and the reality of the country's preparedness don't necessarily support that optimism from a national standpoint.  There is a real chance a lot of people will die before a vaccine is available.

The nation preparedness could have been better, no doubt.  It’s a lot like living in the south when a snow storm hits, the government is not equipped to take care of the situation as that particular situation doesn’t happen but once out of three or four years.  Respirators have not been required in the volume we see now.  The hospital room situation is worse, but space can be made available quicker than building respirators.

Optimism beats constant doom and gloom any day, whether founded in science or just hope.  I’ll remain optimistic until I get it and than I’ll be optimistic I will get through it.

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20 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I get the "getting back to work" thing. It's probably not going to happen and it's careless and potentially disastrous just to talk about it in those terms, but people are hurting badly without work.

The churches thing? Christahmighty. It's all just one big game show to him. 

i know you do not acknowledge me much anymore but i saw where 78 claimed he owned you on a post here and i could not find it nor believe it. is he making up stuff again?

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6 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i know you do not acknowledge me much anymore but i saw where 78 claimed he owned you on a post here and i could not find it nor believe it. is he making up stuff again?

No clue. I don't interact with that person.

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15 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

I know the death rate is not known, but the article from the WSJ indicated it could be a lot less than just simply dividing the known cases by the deaths. And nowhere did I say we are not in dire shape.  The fact that it spreads so fast could overwhelm our healthcare system very soon.

 

The nation preparedness could have been better, no doubt.  It’s a lot like living in the south when a snow storm hits, the government is not equipped to take care of the situation as that particular situation doesn’t happen but once out of three or four years.  Respirators have not been required in the volume we see now.  The hospital room situation is worse, but space can be made available quicker than building respirators.

Optimism beats constant doom and gloom any day, whether founded in science or just hope.  I’ll remain optimistic until I get it and than I’ll be optimistic I will get through it.

Simply acknowledging reality is not "doom and gloom" nor is "hope" a serious response.  (Trump's "gut feeling" is a prime example of the latter.)

It was foolish and totally irresponsible for the POTUS to suggest we should normalize life by Easter.  It doesn't take an epidemiologist to realize that.  People will die if they follow Trump's advice.

But I suppose there's some justice in that.

Edited by homersapien
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1 hour ago, homersapien said:

It was foolish and totally irresponsible for the POTUS to suggest we should normalize life by Easter.  It doesn't take an epidemiologist to realize that.  People will die if they follow Trump's advice.

Isn’t one of Trump’s job is to bring hope to Americans that are nervous about the future?  He didn’t say we will be normalized by Easter, he said it would be great if we were.  The only people that are upset about that are people that don’t believe a thing he says. If Easter comes and the numbers indicate that portions of the American business can resume and the epidemiologists agree, what would you say then?

The media and some people that never believe what Trump says are now believing everything he says?  How disingenuous. Either you believe him or you don’t.   There is not a reasonable person that takes everything he, or anybody else, says at face value.  Most should be doing what is best for them, take all the available information and act reasonable. 

Please don’t drink the fish tank cleaner.

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Here is Dr Birx speaking about media hysteria:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4863818/user-clip-dr-birx-misleading-infection-rates

TRANSCRIPT:

We have done some things that are horizontal across the country but we are collecting data now in a county by county granular way. So, it’s like any epidemic, it’s not equal everywhere.

There are places that are very spared and places where there is more. We have a very vast country with a lot of capacity and a lot of infrastructure.

Looking specifically about where the virus has been, where is it going, who has freed up resources from where it has been because it didn’t hit Washington State before it hit New York, and looking at those pieces to ensure how we can innovately move equipment around based on the need. And so I know that it has become a place where people are looking numbers rather than what is needed.

If you do these projections, when you got to those projections that said like in Germany and others that implied that 60% or 50% of the population would get infected, I want to be very clear, the only way that happens, is that this virus remains continuously moving through populations in this cycle, in the fall cycle and another cycle. That’s through three cycles with nothing being done.

We are dealing with cycle ‘A’ right now, not one that could come in the Fall of 2020 and that we’re getting prepared for by the innovations that are being worked on, and not 2021 [cycle]. We’re really dealing with the here and now while we are planning for the future. And I think the numbers that have been put out there are actually very frightening to people.

But I can tell you if you go back and look at Wuhan and Hubei and all of these provinces, when they talk about 60,000 people being infected, even if you said, alright well there’s asymptomatics and all of that, so you get to 600,000 people out of 80 million. That is nowhere close to the numbers that you see people putting out there. I think it has frightened the American people.

I think on a model you just run full out, you can get to those numbers if you have 0 controls and you do nothing and we know that every American is doing something and so I think what our job right now is, is to carefully detail on a hospital by hospital, state by state, county by county to outline what the infrastructure needs are and ensure that we are meeting them, both from the stockpile and from the generosity and movement of the American people.

This, to me, is reassuring as it comes directly from the CDC Task Force. 

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18 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

I know the death rate is not known, but the article from the WSJ indicated it could be a lot less than just simply dividing the known cases by the deaths. And nowhere did I say we are not in dire shape.  The fact that it spreads so fast could overwhelm our healthcare system very soon.

 

The nation preparedness could have been better, no doubt.  It’s a lot like living in the south when a snow storm hits, the government is not equipped to take care of the situation as that particular situation doesn’t happen but once out of three or four years.  Respirators have not been required in the volume we see now.  The hospital room situation is worse, but space can be made available quicker than building respirators.

Optimism beats constant doom and gloom any day, whether founded in science or just hope.  I’ll remain optimistic until I get it and than I’ll be optimistic I will get through it.

3 Years and counting................

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2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Isn’t one of Trump’s job is to bring hope to Americans that are nervous about the future?  He didn’t say we will be normalized by Easter, he said it would be great if we were.  The only people that are upset about that are people that don’t believe a thing he says. If Easter comes and the numbers indicate that portions of the American business can resume and the epidemiologists agree, what would you say then?

The media and some people that never believe what Trump says are now believing everything he says?  How disingenuous. Either you believe him or you don’t.   There is not a reasonable person that takes anything he says at face value.  Most should be doing what is best for them, take all the available information and act reasonable. 

Please don’t drink the fish tank cleaner.

You folks are just amazing with your blind stupidity.  It is not the job of the president to create false hope and present bad advice - based on their gut feel - about a ******* PANDEMIC.

 

(Fixed your statement for you.)

 

 

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1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Here is Dr Birx speaking about media hysteria:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4863818/user-clip-dr-birx-misleading-infection-rates

TRANSCRIPT:

We have done some things that are horizontal across the country but we are collecting data now in a county by county granular way. So, it’s like any epidemic, it’s not equal everywhere.

There are places that are very spared and places where there is more. We have a very vast country with a lot of capacity and a lot of infrastructure.

Looking specifically about where the virus has been, where is it going, who has freed up resources from where it has been because it didn’t hit Washington State before it hit New York, and looking at those pieces to ensure how we can innovately move equipment around based on the need. And so I know that it has become a place where people are looking numbers rather than what is needed.

If you do these projections, when you got to those projections that said like in Germany and others that implied that 60% or 50% of the population would get infected, I want to be very clear, the only way that happens, is that this virus remains continuously moving through populations in this cycle, in the fall cycle and another cycle. That’s through three cycles with nothing being done.

We are dealing with cycle ‘A’ right now, not one that could come in the Fall of 2020 and that we’re getting prepared for by the innovations that are being worked on, and not 2021 [cycle]. We’re really dealing with the here and now while we are planning for the future. And I think the numbers that have been put out there are actually very frightening to people.

But I can tell you if you go back and look at Wuhan and Hubei and all of these provinces, when they talk about 60,000 people being infected, even if you said, alright well there’s asymptomatics and all of that, so you get to 600,000 people out of 80 million. That is nowhere close to the numbers that you see people putting out there. I think it has frightened the American people.

I think on a model you just run full out, you can get to those numbers if you have 0 controls and you do nothing and we know that every American is doing something and so I think what our job right now is, is to carefully detail on a hospital by hospital, state by state, county by county to outline what the infrastructure needs are and ensure that we are meeting them, both from the stockpile and from the generosity and movement of the American people.

This, to me, is reassuring as it comes directly from the CDC Task Force. 

Good for you.  But the subject is Trump and his statements. 

Edited by homersapien
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4 hours ago, homersapien said:

You folks are just amazing with your blind stupidity.  It is not the job of the president to create false hope and present bad advice - based on their gut feel - about a ******* PANDEMIC.

 

(Fixed your statement for you.)

 

 

You’re the one that is amazing.  I just posted that a reasonable person would not take anything he said at face value and you lumped me in with “folks...with your blind stupidity”.  

As posted in another thread; Professor Longini is predicting a peak in deaths in 3 weeks.

Longini's suggestion that U.S. deaths could peak in less than a month will have two possible impacts. First, a sudden surge in deaths risks overwhelming health care systems that are currently struggling to prepare for cases needing intensive care. Secondly, it could support calls -- echoed by President Trump -- to reduce restrictions on movement in the coming weeks.

"I would guess the U.S. will hit a peak in deaths in the next two-three weeks, as the doubling time seems to be about two-three days," Longini said. "Maybe a partial lifting of the shelter-in-place for those less vulnerable may make some sense, in about three weeks. By then, much of the damage will have been done."

https://www.nbc-2.com/story/41940740/us-coronavirus-deaths-could-peak-in-three-weeks-epidemiologist-says

To the bolded part;  My God, say it isn’t so, Trump could be right?!?!  Has it occurred to you that Trump is listening to his staff of experts and addressing the nation in his own unique manner while echoing scientific minds?

Step back from the ledge and lets see how it shakes out.  We’ve still got 5 more days of the 15 original days of quarantine left.  You’re like Cuomo, full panic mode blaming Trump for everything.  I would be more inclined to think Cuomo is doing a good job if he would just calm down and he laid off the Red Bull.

Edited by I_M4_AU
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On ‎3‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 10:47 AM, homersapien said:

Trump wants Americans to flock to churches on Easter Sunday.

I still think Trump is not who we need as POTUS, but throwing out lies you are doing is pathetic. "I would love to have it opened by Easter" is not the same thing as "urging Americans to flock to churches on Easter Sunday." You know you are peddling lies and don't even seem to care.

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7 hours ago, Grumps said:

I still think Trump is not who we need as POTUS, but throwing out lies you are doing is pathetic. "I would love to have it opened by Easter" is not the same thing as "urging Americans to flock to churches on Easter Sunday." You know you are peddling lies and don't even seem to care.

Spot on and pathetic indeed. But Vlad approves his meesage.

Edited by AUFAN78

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19 hours ago, Grumps said:

I still think Trump is not who we need as POTUS, but throwing out lies you are doing is pathetic. "I would love to have it opened by Easter" is not the same thing as "urging Americans to flock to churches on Easter Sunday." You know you are peddling lies and don't even seem to care.

That's a very weak distinction.  Splitting hairs so to speak.  The issue here is not if Trump literally "urged" Americans to do anything it's that his statements encourage others to take the situation much less seriously and ignore recommendations from the experts.  It's the equivalent of passive urging:

Trump told Fox News anchor Bill Hemmer he selected Easter as the day he wants businesses to reopen, saying he’d like to see “packed churches all over our country” — the exact type of large gatherings that the CDC, the WHO, and Trump’s top health advisers have all urged suspended to help stop the spread of the virus.

“I would love to have it opened by Easter,” Trump said, speaking about when he sees the country returning to normal life.

His statements set the tone for most his supporters - most of whom are scientifically illiterate - and they are already exhibiting lax behavior in response to the pandemic.  They take their lead from Trump. (See polling data on how Democrats pandemic behavior vs. Republicans for proof.)

In fact, Trump has minimized the threat from the very beginning. It's a clear and consistent pattern.  And even implying we can suspend isolation behavior for Easter is part of the same pattern.  It will encourage people to do exactly that.

So spare me the pearl clutching over the nuance of whether or not he actually "urged" Americans to open up by Easter (which he cannot dictate at any rate) instead of telling them he "wants" to open up by Easter (which he most certainly said) it's a relatively minor distinction in terms of the effect it will have:

As for me "peddling lies" that's just BS. 

This one inconsequential discrepancy example hardly amounts to "peddling lies".  If you want to see what "peddling lies" looks like, tune in to Fox cable.  Or just continue listening to Trump. 

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22 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

You’re the one that is amazing.  I just posted that a reasonable person would not take anything he said at face value and you lumped me in with “folks...with your blind stupidity”.  

As posted in another thread; Professor Longini is predicting a peak in deaths in 3 weeks.

Longini's suggestion that U.S. deaths could peak in less than a month will have two possible impacts. First, a sudden surge in deaths risks overwhelming health care systems that are currently struggling to prepare for cases needing intensive care. Secondly, it could support calls -- echoed by President Trump -- to reduce restrictions on movement in the coming weeks.

"I would guess the U.S. will hit a peak in deaths in the next two-three weeks, as the doubling time seems to be about two-three days," Longini said. "Maybe a partial lifting of the shelter-in-place for those less vulnerable may make some sense, in about three weeks. By then, much of the damage will have been done."

https://www.nbc-2.com/story/41940740/us-coronavirus-deaths-could-peak-in-three-weeks-epidemiologist-says

To the bolded part;  My God, say it isn’t so, Trump could be right?!?!  Has it occurred to you that Trump is listening to his staff of experts and addressing the nation in his own unique manner while echoing scientific minds?

Step back from the ledge and lets see how it shakes out.  We’ve still got 5 more days of the 15 original days of quarantine left.  You’re like Cuomo, full panic mode blaming Trump for everything.  I would be more inclined to think Cuomo is doing a good job if he would just calm down and he laid off the Red Bull.

President Trump was presented with a model by Neil Ferguson based on not taking aggressive measures and it scared the hell out of him.  That was about two weeks ago, and it resulted in his marked switch in tone from weeks of minimizing the threat to now taking it seriously. (That was discussed in some different threads).

But he has now started to backslide - i.e.: the "want to open up by Easter" comments - probably because of the economic impacts will likely result in a depression.  (This was also mentioned in a different thread.)

As far as I can tell, Trump has done one positive thing - on his own initiative - regarding this pandemic: barring (most) flights from China.  Unfortunately, he did understand that a very aggressive follow-up was in order.  We lost several weeks of valuable time while he downplayed the risk and we are now paying the price.  (This period also served to nullify any of the advantages that halting the travel gained.  It allowed the virus to get a toehold in spite of the embargo on travel.)

There will be plenty of analysis over the next few years of the Trump administration's handling of this, including the policy and personnel decisions that have hindered our response.  Meanwhile Trump and Fox will be spinning like hell.

 

Regarding my assumption that you were a Trump supporter, I sincerely apologize if I lumped you into a (MAGA) category in which you don't belong.  Frankly, sometimes it's hard to distinguish the true believers from the ??? (not sure how to describe the full range of opinions regarding Trump with one word.)

Maybe I misinterpreted your statement about no reasonable person would take at face value anything Trump said. After several posts in which you seemed to be defending him, this sounded like another - somewhat ironic - excuse for him making his statement about opening up on Easter.

Anyway, I did lump you in with the more MAGA-like defenders and if that was a mistake, I apologize

Edited by homersapien
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4 hours ago, homersapien said:

Regarding my assumption that you were a Trump supporter, I sincerely apologize if I lumped you into a (MAGA) category in which you don't belong.  Frankly, sometimes it's hard to distinguish the true believers from the ??? (not sure how to describe the full range of opinions regarding Trump with one word.)

Maybe I misinterpreted your statement about no reasonable person would take at face value anything Trump said. After several posts in which you seemed to be defending him, this sounded like another - somewhat ironic - excuse for him making his statement about opening up on Easter.

I’m not sure there is one word/category that can describe some conservatives that want Trump to succeed even  with the numerous faults he has.  I took a *wait and see* attitude when he was elected and frankly I had my doubts to his effectiveness after the non-stop Russian Asset label was given to him by most of the media.  I thought when he started bashing the CIA and FBI he was done.  Not so, there seems to be smoke there.  The only thing the Mueller report did was to prove most of the media lied to us for years.

The way the Kavanaugh hearings were covered by the same media was disgraceful and the ill-advised impeachment was no better.  What a waste of a congress for three years.  What Trump did was fight every step of the way and for that you have to hand it to him, no matter what side of the isle you’re on.  The man is a fighter and that’s what you need in a crisis as long as he listens to his advisors (which he seems to do).

What will make or break him is how we recover from now until November.  One thing is certain, I can never trust the media to tell the true story, it is greatly slanted to the left to the point that even in times like these, with a pandemic raging, the media has a hard time telling the truth.  There is always some bias against this administration in the way they present the story.  It has not learned from it’s failures in the past.

Below is a new Gallup Poll that rates U.S. Leaders and Institutions in the current crisis.  The Media is the only one with a negative rating.

Approval Ratings of U.S. Leaders' and Institutions' Handling of Response to Coronavirus
Do you approve or disapprove of the way each of the following is handling the response to the coronavirus in the U.S.?
  Approve Disapprove Does not apply (vol.)/No opinion
  % % %
U.S. hospitals 88 10 2
Your child's school or daycare † 83 9 8
Your state government 82 17 1
Your employer ^ 82 14 4
Government health agencies such as the CDC or NIH 80 17 2
Vice President Mike Pence 61 32 7
President Donald Trump 60 38 1
Congress 59 37 4
The news media 44 55 1
^ Based on 536 employed adults; † Based on 262 parents of children under 18; (vol.) = volunteered response

GALLUP, MARCH 13-22, 2020

https://news.gallup.com/poll/300680/coronavirus-response-hospitals-rated-best-news-media-worst.aspx

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On 3/26/2020 at 3:06 PM, Grumps said:

I still think Trump is not who we need as POTUS, but throwing out lies you are doing is pathetic. "I would love to have it opened by Easter" is not the same thing as "urging Americans to flock to churches on Easter Sunday." You know you are peddling lies and don't even seem to care.

You really need to meet some of the shitgibbons I know. Hell some are probably here. They have created hard plans to attend an Easter service wearing MAGA hats. 

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