Class is a failure without O Linemen

[augolf1716 21,109]

1 hour ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

We don't want to lose anyone here.

bird could leave it would be a good thing

[AUwent 3,748]

30 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

bird could leave it would be a good thing

Show some gratitude, he got us that win in BR!

[augolf1716 21,109]

1 hour ago, AUwent said:

Show some gratitude, he got us that win in BR!

Heck no it was his son that did it 

[AU9377 4,927]

17 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Harsin was not the best we could get, he was just the best we could get without changing our thinking.

Auburn may well be the toughest coaching job in the country.  Those of you saying we've got to have a name coach are exactly right IMO.  Unless and until we make the commitment to pay whatever it takes to get one of the best coaches in the game that is a household name, we're going to continue to slide slowly farther down the SEC ladder.  If it takes $10 million a year, $12 million a year, whatever.  Unless and until we are willing to pay for a Ferrari instead of shopping at the Honda dealership, this is what will happen.

Nothing against Harsin.  He may be a very good coach.  But that will not be enough for us to succeed.

The possible exception is if we get out front and develop an NIL program that outperforms our competition.  Pay offensive linemen enough and they will come.  Just like an elite household name coach.  We don't need to spend money on both, I suppose.  One or the other will do.  But we've got to spend money on at least one of them.

So You want me to believe that LSU, Florida, FSU and others got whoever they wanted?  I know for fact that they did not.  Established elite coaches simply don't move to subject themselves to pure hell.  No matter what you pay, it isn't enough more than what they make where they are to make it worthwhile.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

57 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

So You want me to believe that LSU, Florida, FSU and others got whoever they wanted?  I know for fact that they did not.  Established elite coaches simply don't move to subject themselves to pure hell.  No matter what you pay, it isn't enough more than what they make where they are to make it worthwhile.

You aren't wrong.  Texas offered Saban the moon a few years back.  It still wasn't enough.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 338]

5 hours ago, AU9377 said:

So You want me to believe that LSU, Florida, FSU and others got whoever they wanted?  I know for fact that they did not.  Established elite coaches simply don't move to subject themselves to pure hell.  No matter what you pay, it isn't enough more than what they make where they are to make it worthwhile.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.  I said, "Florida, LSU, FSU, and others offered several prospects $12 million a year and they told them to stick it up the goat's ass."

Thanks for your participation based on excellent reading comprehension.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 338]

5 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

You aren't wrong.  Texas offered Saban the moon a few years back.  It still wasn't enough.

That's right.  Saban.  That short list I was talking about earlier?  He's on it.

[AU9377 4,927]

3 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Yes, that's exactly what I said.  I said, "Florida, LSU, FSU, and others offered several prospects $12 million a year and they told them to stick it up the goat's ass."

Thanks for your participation based on excellent reading comprehension.

Who do you think is worth $15 million a year that is out there an willing to consider?  There is nobody that fits what you describe.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 338]

32 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Who do you think is worth $15 million a year that is out there an willing to consider?  There is nobody that fits what you describe.

I didn't say $15 million either.

Do you actually read what I post?

If you're going to misquote me, however, note that Bill Belichick only makes $12.5 million.  We would probably just end up getting that guy a raise by offering him $15 million because he's the Saban of pro football, but Sean Peyton might take us up on it, or John Harbaugh, or Matt Rhule, or several others.  If recruits want to make it to the pros, how better to do that than by playing for a pro coach?

And if you don't think we could get an NFL coach even if we doubled his salary, then like I posted before, it's over anyway.

Maybe you're right, maybe that's the case.  But there are two things I'm convinced of:

1.  We wouldn't know unless we tried.

2.  If you're right and this is such an undesirable job that we couldn't get a coach that would attract top recruits for $15 'effing million dollars, then prepare to join Mississippi State in the SEC pecking order.

[slyinsocal 831]

The portal does offer some hope. There's got to be a few talented, anxious linemen stuck behind a loaded depth chart at schools with an abundance of riches in the trenches. Friend's prior relationships may be the key.

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

We wouldn't know unless we tried.

But you "know" that Harsin isn't going to cut it. Interesting.

 

 

 

[metafour 4,969]

1 hour ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

I didn't say $15 million either.

Do you actually read what I post?

If you're going to misquote me, however, note that Bill Belichick only makes $12.5 million.  We would probably just end up getting that guy a raise by offering him $15 million because he's the Saban of pro football, but Sean Peyton might take us up on it, or John Harbaugh, or Matt Rhule, or several others.  If recruits want to make it to the pros, how better to do that than by playing for a pro coach?

And if you don't think we could get an NFL coach even if we doubled his salary, then like I posted before, it's over anyway.

Maybe you're right, maybe that's the case.  But there are two things I'm convinced of:

1.  We wouldn't know unless we tried.

2.  If you're right and this is such an undesirable job that we couldn't get a coach that would attract top recruits for $15 'effing million dollars, then prepare to join Mississippi State in the SEC pecking order.

Your premise is nonsense.

The NFL and College Football are two entirely different games.

First of all, the guys who are career NFL coaches are there because they get something out of coaching at the highest level of football - so there is an obvious element of pride at play. Most of them are also there because the NFL is a professional league, where ~60% of the job isn't BS like having to recruit and pander to ~18-20 year olds and making sure that they're attending classes, and trying to motivate them on a daily basis, trying to counsel homesick players out of running back to their hometown, etc. The idea that you can just "buy" someone out of leaving the NFL completely ignores the entire base human reality that most of those coaches don't want or have any desire to move DOWN in level and coach in college. Just like if you worked at Google, and some random startup in India offered you more money, the sheer difference in prestige or job status is kind of something that goes through your head, no?

And it's not just recruiting and dealing with kids; college coaches need to pander and schmooze with boosters and attend their functions. Literally half the job is entirely removed from "Football X's and O's". 

Now, lets play your game and assume that you can pull Sean Payton with a blank check (it's a stupid thought experiment at that, as Payton has won his division in 4 straight seasons and obviously has zero reason to leave). Give me one reason why Sean Payton, at $12 million dollars, is guaranteed to live up to that contract. Go ahead. What, because he's a successful NFL coach, that means its a guaranteed transition? The man hasn't held a college coaching position since 1996. Being a known NFL coach would obviously help with recruiting, but that actually doesn't even guarantee anything on that front either because recruiting is an effort-game. Do we know that Payton can motivate and teach TEENAGERS? Being able to coach Drew Brees doesn't in any way mean that he can mould some 18 year old kid in the same manner. 

Recent NFL-to-College coaches have already shown that this is a much more volatile and wonky experiment than you suggest. Jim Harbaugh has largely been seen as just "OK" at Michigan; he hasn't even been able to topple Ohio State even after Urban Meyer left, and he was coming in HOT from the NFL, and he actually had College success at Stanford to at least defer to that most NFL guys don't.

You listed Matt Rhule - are you serious LOL? Matt Rhule is all of a sudden worth a contract that topples or competes with Nick Saban? First of all, Rhule literally left Baylor because he WANTED to coach in the NFL (ie: he's not voluntarily going back to College, because he falls in the category I mentioned earlier of coaches who's aspiration is to coach in the NFL, period). Secondly, you understand that all Matt Rhule has done in College is: 11-3 at Baylor once, and a 10-3 and 10-4 season at Temple? That's your definition of a $12 million a year coach? Obviously the fact that he's in the NFL suggests that he's a very good coach, but please explain to me what about his resume makes him worth more than twice as much as what we're paying Bryan Harsin? Baylor isn't a "premier job" - he has not accomplished anything to suggest that he is an elite College coach. Bryan Harsin has put up more 10+ win seasons, and for a longer period of time than Rhule has LOL. Oh yeah, he also has 4x more Conference Titles under his belt as well.

So apparently hiring Bryan Harsin at $5.25 mill a year with a 76-24 career NCAA coaching record is a "joke hire", but paying Matt Rhule $10+ mill a year with a 47-43 career NCAA coaching record is what - a surefire way to compete with Saban and the rest of the SEC? I actually think that Rhule is a great coach so I'm being facetious, but you're off your rocker if you think that Matt Rhule is some sort of "guaranteed" elite hire. The man has a whopping 3 total seasons where he won 10+ games. And this is your $12 mill a year coach? Really?

Edited October 6, 2021 by metafour

[metafour 4,969]

18 hours ago, AUwent said:

Meyer was. Had just taken a non-BCS conference team to a BCS bowl for the first time.

This is nothing but revisionist history.

Urban Meyer was at Utah for two seasons and went 10-2 and then 12-0.

Yeah, that's a great record, but to pretend like he was some "surefire elite coach" when Florida hired him is nonsense. In the same breath I can mention Scott Frost who went 13-0 at UCF and even beat an SEC team! Scott Frost has obviously proven to NOT be an elite football coach.

Two seasons at a midmajor program (Utah was in the Mountain West Conference when Urban Meyer was there) doesn't guarantee anything. By that definition, is Jamey Chadwell at Coastal Carolina an elite coach deserving of $7+ mill a year? He went 11-1 last season, and they're 5-0 so far this year. He might be, but that's far from being a likely outcome.

Edited October 6, 2021 by metafour

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 338]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

But you "know" that Harsin isn't going to cut it. Interesting.

 

 

 

Did I ever say that?

If I did, I misspoke.  What I remember saying is that if we want to compete with uat and UGA, etc., we had a couple of choices and paying for a name coach was one of them. 

That leaves another one.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Did I ever say that?

If I did, I misspoke.  What I remember saying is that if we want to compete with uat and UGA, etc., we had a couple of choices and paying for a name coach was one of them. 

That leaves another one.

You're being disingenuous. 

 

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 338]

1 hour ago, metafour said:

Your premise is nonsense.

The NFL and College Football are two entirely different games.

First of all, the guys who are career NFL coaches are there because they get something out of coaching at the highest level of football - so there is an obvious element of pride at play. Most of them are also there because the NFL is a professional league, where ~60% of the job isn't BS like having to recruit and pander to ~18-20 year olds and making sure that they're attending classes, and trying to motivate them on a daily basis, trying to counsel homesick players out of running back to their hometown, etc. The idea that you can just "buy" someone out of leaving the NFL completely ignores the entire base human reality that most of those coaches don't want or have any desire to move DOWN in level and coach in college. Just like if you worked at Google, and some random startup in India offered you more money, the sheer difference in prestige or job status is kind of something that goes through your head, no?

And it's not just recruiting and dealing with kids; college coaches need to pander and schmooze with boosters and attend their functions. Literally half the job is entirely removed from "Football X's and O's". 

Now, lets play your game and assume that you can pull Sean Payton with a blank check (it's a stupid thought experiment at that, as Payton has won his division in 4 straight seasons and obviously has zero reason to leave). Give me one reason why Sean Payton, at $12 million dollars, is guaranteed to live up to that contract. Go ahead. What, because he's a successful NFL coach, that means its a guaranteed transition? The man hasn't held a college coaching position since 1996. Being a known NFL coach would obviously help with recruiting, but that actually doesn't even guarantee anything on that front either because recruiting is an effort-game. Do we know that Payton can motivate and teach TEENAGERS? Being able to coach Drew Brees doesn't in any way mean that he can mould some 18 year old kid in the same manner. 

Recent NFL-to-College coaches have already shown that this is a much more volatile and wonky experiment than you suggest. Jim Harbaugh has largely been seen as just "OK" at Michigan; he hasn't even been able to topple Ohio State even after Urban Meyer left, and he was coming in HOT from the NFL, and he actually had College success at Stanford to at least defer to that most NFL guys don't.

You listed Matt Rhule - are you serious LOL? Matt Rhule is all of a sudden worth a contract that topples or competes with Nick Saban? First of all, Rhule literally left Baylor because he WANTED to coach in the NFL (ie: he's not voluntarily going back to College, because he falls in the category I mentioned earlier of coaches who's aspiration is to coach in the NFL, period). Secondly, you understand that all Matt Rhule has done in College is: 11-3 at Baylor once, and a 10-3 and 10-4 season at Temple? That's your definition of a $12 million a year coach? Obviously the fact that he's in the NFL suggests that he's a very good coach, but please explain to me what about his resume makes him worth more than twice as much as what we're paying Bryan Harsin? Baylor isn't a "premier job" - he has not accomplished anything to suggest that he is an elite College coach. Bryan Harsin has put up more 10+ win seasons, and for a longer period of time than Rhule has LOL. Oh yeah, he also has 4x more Conference Titles under his belt as well.

So apparently hiring Bryan Harsin at $5.25 mill a year with a 76-24 career NCAA coaching record is a "joke hire", but paying Matt Rhule $10+ mill a year with a 47-43 career NCAA coaching record is what - a surefire way to compete with Saban and the rest of the SEC? I actually think that Rhule is a great coach so I'm being facetious, but you're off your rocker if you think that Matt Rhule is some sort of "guaranteed" elite hire. The man has a whopping 3 total seasons where he won 10+ games. And this is your $12 mill a year coach? Really?

I don't have the time or inclination to respond to things I haven't even said.  That gets tedious very quickly.

I think I've addressed the "guaranteed" part of the collective straw man brigade at least twice now, for example, though I will try to make it as clear as I can below.

If you care enough to actually read what I've posted and respond to that, I might have a reply.  I might not.

As I posted before, college football is entertainment.  I can't imagine why some of y'all are getting so wound up about it.

If you go back 70 years or so and look at every Auburn coach since Shug Jordan, with only one outlier (Doug Barfield), the winning percentages of each coach are very similar to each other.  What would equate to less than a single win/loss swing per year between the highest and lowest.

That tells me something.  It tells me that how things are done at Auburn matters more than who the individual coach happens to be at the moment.  Not a 100% determination, of course, but it seems to be a bigger influence.

I think we can keep right on doing things the way we already have for 70 or so years and under other circumstances we would probably get around the same results.  I think the conference has changed and continues to change, as well as the whole league, and I think consequently doing things the way we always have will probably not get even the results we've gotten in the past for the next while.

I think the prediction possibilities are thus:

1.  We keep right on doing things the way we already have for 70 or so years and we get similar results.

2.  We keep right on doing things the way we already have for 70 or so years and we get better results.

3.  We keep right on doing things the way we already have for 70 or so years and we get worse results.

4.  We significantly change something in order to respond to the changes in the game and the conference and we get better results.

5.  We significantly change something in order to respond to the changes in the game and the conference and we get worse results.

6.  We significantly change something in order to respond to the changes in the game and the conference and we get similar results.

(If you're one of those people who thinks that simply not hiring a good old boy with no ties to Auburn constitutes doing something significantly different, I don't know that we have a basis for discussion.)  Personally I think significantly changing something is our best chance of getting better results.  It's fine with me if you disagree.

I'm not sure why some of you are getting so emotional about all of this.  I like watching Auburn football, but the 2010 NC did not change my life, nor did the abysmal 2012 season.

 

 

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 338]

15 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You're being disingenuous. 

 

I'm being disingenuous for saying that if I said what you say I said I mis-spoke?

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

I'm being disingenuous for saying that if I said what you say I said I mis-spoke?

Yes, you're being disingenuous to drone on and on with a very specific opinion and then claim you don't remember saying that and that you "misspoke". 

Congrats, though, on getting the attention you seek. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by McLoofus

[AUinfusion 390]

21 hours ago, W.E.D said:

The consensus from various Mods/Insiders was none would return.  I'm not really sure why or why not.  Pretty sure Hamm would be on his 7th year after HS if he came back (missed a year due to cancer I believe).  

That seems like something that could change if we have a decent season and if coach Harsin gets a lot of buy-in from the players. I can see getting vastly different answers between asking senior OL whose coming back two months after a coaching change and asking that same group that same question after a solid year of steady improvement under that new coach. 

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 338]

51 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Yes, you're being disingenuous to drone on and on with a very specific opinion and then claim you don't remember saying that and that you "misspoke". 

Congrats, though, on getting the attention you seek. 

You said I claimed I knew Harsin would not succeed.  I said what I remember saying is that we had a couple of choices.  In the post you quoted, I said we had a couple of choices.  I did say that just hiring a good coach is not enough, but that the other choice would be to use the NIL as an equalizer.

Again, this is something you quoted.

What does your very poor reading comprehension level have to do with me supposedly "seeking attention?"

And why are so many of you jerks about this?  

[augolf1716 21,109]

Lets stop the bickering and get back to the OP 

 

[bigbird 60,512]

9 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Who do you think is worth $15 million a year that is out there an willing to consider?  There is nobody that fits what you describe.

Gus coaching at bama is worth $15m a year to me.

[gr82b4au 5,568]

11 hours ago, slyinsocal said:

The portal does offer some hope. There's got to be a few talented, anxious linemen stuck behind a loaded depth chart at schools with an abundance of riches in the trenches. Friend's prior relationships may be the key.

If we can sign a few OL players from AU HS that will be a good start. Then grab 2 more HS studs, then 2 more portal guys- I will feel much better. 

[gr82b4au 5,568]

4 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

Lets stop the bickering and get back to the OP 

 

I am hoping a few non-starting OL from UGA will want to leave. We have had some pretty good luck with former Georgia players lately.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

16 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

Lets stop the bickering and get back to the OP