i am hearing a little bit about a potential hire

[WarEagle10 77]

Just so I'm clear on what all the hardline moralists want here...

How far back does one have to have repented for it to be considered sincere?

How long ago did the big sins have to have occurred for someone to have rebuilt character and trust?

I'm trying to figure out what the benchmarks and standards are for when repentance is accepted and a person is considered to have really changed. I'm shocked that almost six years and his wife standing by him aren't enough but evidently I've misunderstood the degree of purity amongst our members here.

Anybody can repent. Charles Manson can repent to God. I don't want Charles Manson near Auburn. For the life of me I can not understand how you don't get the fact that some people don't want a cheat, a CHEAT in every single aspect of his personal and professional life, associated with Auburn University. It is not like there are only five candidates for any job at Auburn University. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of candidates for whatever job RP is being mentioned for. Why not go out and get somebody who hasn't fallen down in so many different ways?

[TitanTiger 20,563]

Just so I'm clear on what all the hardline moralists want here...

How far back does one have to have repented for it to be considered sincere?

How long ago did the big sins have to have occurred for someone to have rebuilt character and trust?

I'm trying to figure out what the benchmarks and standards are for when repentance is accepted and a person is considered to have really changed. I'm shocked that almost six years and his wife standing by him aren't enough but evidently I've misunderstood the degree of purity amongst our members here.

Anybody can repent. Charles Manson can repent to God. I don't want Charles Manson near Auburn.

You did not seriously just compare Rush Propst to a murderous cult leader.

For the life of me I can not understand how you don't get the fact that some people don't want a cheat, a CHEAT in every single aspect of his personal and professional life, associated with Auburn University. It is not like there are only five candidates for any job at Auburn University. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of candidates for whatever job RP is being mentioned for. Why not go out and get somebody who hasn't fallen down in so many different ways?

Despite quoting my post, you still didn't answer the questions. Give me some specifics. How long before repentance and rebuilding character is considered sincere?

[TheBlueVue 177]

WOW! The fanatical extremism has surged to a new and unprecedented level.

[WarEagle10 77]

Just so I'm clear on what all the hardline moralists want here...

How far back does one have to have repented for it to be considered sincere?

How long ago did the big sins have to have occurred for someone to have rebuilt character and trust?

I'm trying to figure out what the benchmarks and standards are for when repentance is accepted and a person is considered to have really changed. I'm shocked that almost six years and his wife standing by him aren't enough but evidently I've misunderstood the degree of purity amongst our members here.

Anybody can repent. Charles Manson can repent to God. I don't want Charles Manson near Auburn.

You did not seriously just compare Rush Propst to a murderous cult leader.

For the life of me I can not understand how you don't get the fact that some people don't want a cheat, a CHEAT in every single aspect of his personal and professional life, associated with Auburn University. It is not like there are only five candidates for any job at Auburn University. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of candidates for whatever job RP is being mentioned for. Why not go out and get somebody who hasn't fallen down in so many different ways?

Despite quoting my post, you still didn't answer the questions. Give me some specifics. How long before repentance and rebuilding character is considered sincere?

What I did was make a point that repentance, while good, does not whipe the slate clean. Prices have to be paid. RP made the choices to be a complete cheat in every aspect of his life. He can repent all he wants, but I was taught that there are consequences for your actions. I guess if I was a great football coach then some people would look the other way, after a period of time, if I had committed such transgressions.

There is no time frame for some. I don't want any cheat, in any way, shape, form, or fashion, associated with Auburn University. Unfortunately, we have had our share in the past. Might have them in the future, but I don't want a known one associated with Auburn. Surely he is not the only, or the best, candidate for any job associated with our football team or athletic dept..

[SIR ISAAC 46]

Obviously a "no news" day given the level and intensity of discussion on this non-coaching position.

[TigerNBham 3]

I'd agree on the no news angle, but, this one is an alarm being sounded.

If you have ears hear and if you love AU, act accordingly.

[AU Counsel 64]

Titan, you and I are simply not going to agree. To me there is no timetable for repentance in this situation. A major D1 program has no reason to ever hire someone in any capacity who has Propst's background issues.

Corporations routinely screen out applicants with prior criminal acts (even some misdemeanors) and DUI's. When the prior transgressions relate directly to the field of employment, some prior behavior can effectively blackball you from any employment with some employers.

No forgiveness is needed here for most of us...he didn't coach my family, nor am I related to the man. He didn't wrong me. I simply don't want my university to employ him. You spend much of your time here calling posters out for the lack of logic in their arguments.

So to simply declare "horses__t" in response to my claim that he would be bad for our image as a program, while your opinion, shows me this goes beyond logical debate to an issue where we just have a different world view.

[TitanTiger 20,563]

What I did was make a point that repentance, while good, does not whipe the slate clean. Prices have to be paid. RP made the choices to be a complete cheat in every aspect of his life. He can repent all he wants, but I was taught that there are consequences for your actions. I guess if I was a great football coach then some people would look the other way, after a period of time, if I had committed such transgressions.

I wasn't aware that paying a price meant that you never ever get a chance to work your way back or that consequences always lasted forever.

There is no time frame for some. I don't want any cheat, in any way, shape, form, or fashion, associated with Auburn University. Unfortunately, we have had our share in the past. Might have them in the future, but I don't want a known one associated with Auburn. Surely he is not the only, or the best, candidate for any job associated with our football team or athletic dept..

So you're comfortable having higher standards than Jesus?

[Mikey 16,779]

Titan, you and I are simply not going to agree. To me there is no timetable for repentance in this situation. A major D1 program has no reason to ever hire someone in any capacity who has Propst's background issues.

Corporations routinely screen out applicants with prior criminal acts (even some misdemeanors) and DUI's. When the prior transgressions relate directly to the field of employment, some prior behavior can effectively blackball you from any employment with some employers.

No forgiveness is needed here for most of us...he didn't coach my family, nor am I related to the man. He didn't wrong me. I simply don't want my university to employ him. You spend much of your time here calling posters out for the lack of logic in their arguments.

So to simply declare "horses__t" in response to my claim that he would be bad for our image as a program, while your opinion, shows me this goes beyond logical debate to an issue where we just have a different world view.

Well, I had a rather lengthy post typed answering Titan's questions, then it got zapped as "not allowed". Now the thread is open again but now I'll just say i agree with AU Counsel's position.

Additionally, we are not obligated to serve as a halfway house for (allegedly former) outlaws. Let somebody else do it and catch the grief in the media, we get enough undeserved smearing as it is.

[TitanTiger 20,563]

Titan, you and I are simply not going to agree. To me there is no timetable for repentance in this situation. A major D1 program has no reason to ever hire someone in any capacity who has Propst's background issues.

You do realize he was cleared of any wrongdoing related to the grade changing scandal, don't you?

No forgiveness is needed here for most of us...he didn't coach my family, nor am I related to the man. He didn't wrong me. I simply don't want my university to employ him. You spend much of your time here calling posters out for the lack of logic in their arguments.

So to simply declare "horses__t" in response to my claim that he would be bad for our image as a program, while your opinion, shows me this goes beyond logical debate to an issue where we just have a different world view.

He cheated on his wife and was reportedly a real dick to be around. Six years ago. His family has forgiven him. He has repented and publicly apologized. Your concerns about image in that light are exactly what I called them.

[TigerNBham 3]

Titan, you and I are simply not going to agree. To me there is no timetable for repentance in this situation. A major D1 program has no reason to ever hire someone in any capacity who has Propst's background issues.

Corporations routinely screen out applicants with prior criminal acts (even some misdemeanors) and DUI's. When the prior transgressions relate directly to the field of employment, some prior behavior can effectively blackball you from any employment with some employers.

No forgiveness is needed here for most of us...he didn't coach my family, nor am I related to the man. He didn't wrong me. I simply don't want my university to employ him. You spend much of your time here calling posters out for the lack of logic in their arguments.

So to simply declare "horses__t" in response to my claim that he would be bad for our image as a program, while your opinion, shows me this goes beyond logical debate to an issue where we just have a different world view.

All that needs to be said and as quoted,

" Corporations routinely screen out applicants with prior criminal acts (even some misdemeanors) and DUI's. When the prior transgressions relate directly to the field of employment, some prior behavior can effectively blackball you from any employment with some employers. "

AU football is a 100 million dollar business.

Above all the chick on the side issues, there was a money problem @ HHS and it related to how and who filled the roster.

The NCAA disagrees with such things if done @ a higher level.

[TitanTiger 20,563]

Titan, you and I are simply not going to agree. To me there is no timetable for repentance in this situation. A major D1 program has no reason to ever hire someone in any capacity who has Propst's background issues.

Corporations routinely screen out applicants with prior criminal acts (even some misdemeanors) and DUI's. When the prior transgressions relate directly to the field of employment, some prior behavior can effectively blackball you from any employment with some employers.

No forgiveness is needed here for most of us...he didn't coach my family, nor am I related to the man. He didn't wrong me. I simply don't want my university to employ him. You spend much of your time here calling posters out for the lack of logic in their arguments.

So to simply declare "horses__t" in response to my claim that he would be bad for our image as a program, while your opinion, shows me this goes beyond logical debate to an issue where we just have a different world view.

All that needs to be said and as quoted,

" Corporations routinely screen out applicants with prior criminal acts (even some misdemeanors) and DUI's. When the prior transgressions relate directly to the field of employment, some prior behavior can effectively blackball you from any employment with some employers. "

AU football is a 100 million dollar business.

None of which is relevant since he has committed no crimes.

[WarEagle10 77]

What I did was make a point that repentance, while good, does not whipe the slate clean. Prices have to be paid. RP made the choices to be a complete cheat in every aspect of his life. He can repent all he wants, but I was taught that there are consequences for your actions. I guess if I was a great football coach then some people would look the other way, after a period of time, if I had committed such transgressions.

I wasn't aware that paying a price meant that you never ever get a chance to work your way back or that consequences always lasted forever.

There is no time frame for some. I don't want any cheat, in any way, shape, form, or fashion, associated with Auburn University. Unfortunately, we have had our share in the past. Might have them in the future, but I don't want a known one associated with Auburn. Surely he is not the only, or the best, candidate for any job associated with our football team or athletic dept..

So you're comfortable having higher standards than Jesus?

Which brings us back to the Manson thing. We are just not going to agree on this TT.

Yes, I have high morals. I would never ever ever think of cheating on my wife. I would never ever ever think of putting my children through that. I feel so strongly about that that I have lost great friends through the years who did not feel the way I do about that subject. They put their own greed ahead of the greater good and what is, I believe, fundamentally right. I hold Auburn to higher standards also. I don't wish anything bad on RP. I just wish whatever is in store for his future is somewhere other than Auburn University.

[AU Counsel 64]

The court of public opinion matters here. Grade changing, paying players to come, adultery...we have the Jovon Robinson, Cam Newton and Bobby Petrino allegations all in one man!

I didn't call the guy a criminal. But I sure as hell don't want someone with his reputation at Auburn. Period.

[TitanTiger 20,563]

The court of public opinion matters here. Grade changing, paying players to come, adultery...we have the Jovon Robinson, Cam Newton and Bobby Petrino allegations all in one man!

I didn't call the guy a criminal. But I sure as hell don't want someone with his reputation at Auburn. Period.

Public opinion doesn't matter if its based on rumors and false accusations. He was cleared. Period.

[TitanTiger 20,563]

What I did was make a point that repentance, while good, does not whipe the slate clean. Prices have to be paid. RP made the choices to be a complete cheat in every aspect of his life. He can repent all he wants, but I was taught that there are consequences for your actions. I guess if I was a great football coach then some people would look the other way, after a period of time, if I had committed such transgressions.

I wasn't aware that paying a price meant that you never ever get a chance to work your way back or that consequences always lasted forever.

There is no time frame for some. I don't want any cheat, in any way, shape, form, or fashion, associated with Auburn University. Unfortunately, we have had our share in the past. Might have them in the future, but I don't want a known one associated with Auburn. Surely he is not the only, or the best, candidate for any job associated with our football team or athletic dept..

So you're comfortable having higher standards than Jesus?

Which brings us back to the Manson thing. We are just not going to agree on this TT.

Yes, I have high morals. I would never ever ever think of cheating on my wife. I would never ever ever think of putting my children through that. I feel so strongly about that that I have lost great friends through the years who did not feel the way I do about that subject. They put their own greed ahead of the greater good and what is, I believe, fundamentally right. I hold Auburn to higher standards also. I don't wish anything bad on RP. I just wish whatever is in store for his future is somewhere other than Auburn University.

I asked if you're comfortable having higher standards than Jesus. You're tap dancing around that question.

The Manson thing was a ridiculous thing to say. You cannot equate what he did and the severity of the consequences that rightly followed to Propst's sins.

[TigerNBham 3]

Let this statement stand un edited. If in a business community your means and methods are of low respect people do not want to associate with or hire you.

What you may do may not be criminal, or at least, proven as such, but a company can not afford the stench of being so associated.

AU football is big business and we have no obligation to help someone rehabilitate themselves. Repeat that phrase as often as you

need to understand it.

I do not have as dossier on the man, but I do have knowledge, and most of it is commonly known around here.

I am stongly against him being associated with AU because I love AU.

The history of hispast practices is well know in B'ham and I do not want them brought up on 60 miniutes or BSPN as proof of,

"see we told you about AU being dirty."

[WarEagle10 77]

What I did was make a point that repentance, while good, does not whipe the slate clean. Prices have to be paid. RP made the choices to be a complete cheat in every aspect of his life. He can repent all he wants, but I was taught that there are consequences for your actions. I guess if I was a great football coach then some people would look the other way, after a period of time, if I had committed such transgressions.

I wasn't aware that paying a price meant that you never ever get a chance to work your way back or that consequences always lasted forever.

There is no time frame for some. I don't want any cheat, in any way, shape, form, or fashion, associated with Auburn University. Unfortunately, we have had our share in the past. Might have them in the future, but I don't want a known one associated with Auburn. Surely he is not the only, or the best, candidate for any job associated with our football team or athletic dept..

So you're comfortable having higher standards than Jesus?

Which brings us back to the Manson thing. We are just not going to agree on this TT.

Yes, I have high morals. I would never ever ever think of cheating on my wife. I would never ever ever think of putting my children through that. I feel so strongly about that that I have lost great friends through the years who did not feel the way I do about that subject. They put their own greed ahead of the greater good and what is, I believe, fundamentally right. I hold Auburn to higher standards also. I don't wish anything bad on RP. I just wish whatever is in store for his future is somewhere other than Auburn University.

I asked if you're comfortable having higher standards than Jesus. You're tap dancing around that question.

The Manson thing was a ridiculous thing to say. You cannot equate what he did and the severity of the consequences that rightly followed to Propst's sins.

AGAIN, my point was that when it comes to repentance, well sometimes that just isn't enough. You wanted to ask if I had higher morals than Jesus. As far as the Bible says, there really isn't any difference in what RP or Manson did, in God's eyes. As long as each asks for forgiveness, it will be granted. This has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible. Why you want to make it about that is beyond me. Are you related to RP? Maybe you are his agent? He is a known, admitted, convicted cheat. AGAIN, I don't want anybody like that associated with our University. I don't care if he did that 50 years ago and has spent the last 50 years hand feeding lepers. There are other Universities he could work at. He was a gump while at Hoover. Let him work for the gumps. It won't be the first time he has been paid by them.

[TitanTiger 20,563]

I think 6 years of demonstrating change and repentance should be enough to allow one to be hired as an extremely low level quality control guy who helps break down film and be a glorified gofer for the coaching staff. Good grief some of you hardasses are beyond the pale. No ones suggesting making him the OC, QB coach or team chaplain. Sheesh. If Gus trusts him to take this grunt job and give him a foot in the door to the college coaching network, that's good enough for me.

When did this board become such a pack of moralistic bean counters handing out scarlet A's and making sure non of the unclean darken the doors of our holy temple?

[TigerPaw1 0]

There is a difference between forgiving someone then turning around and hiring them for the same position they so royally screwed up in. I can forgive a man for embezzling but im not going to ask him to be my accountant. Rush propst could be a changed man. In fact I hope he is but the man lied for most of his career so forgive me for not wanting to jump back on the bandwagon. I hope auburn does not hire this man. I would very disappointed

[TitanTiger 20,563]

What I did was make a point that repentance, while good, does not whipe the slate clean. Prices have to be paid. RP made the choices to be a complete cheat in every aspect of his life. He can repent all he wants, but I was taught that there are consequences for your actions. I guess if I was a great football coach then some people would look the other way, after a period of time, if I had committed such transgressions.

I wasn't aware that paying a price meant that you never ever get a chance to work your way back or that consequences always lasted forever.

There is no time frame for some. I don't want any cheat, in any way, shape, form, or fashion, associated with Auburn University. Unfortunately, we have had our share in the past. Might have them in the future, but I don't want a known one associated with Auburn. Surely he is not the only, or the best, candidate for any job associated with our football team or athletic dept..

So you're comfortable having higher standards than Jesus?

Which brings us back to the Manson thing. We are just not going to agree on this TT.

Yes, I have high morals. I would never ever ever think of cheating on my wife. I would never ever ever think of putting my children through that. I feel so strongly about that that I have lost great friends through the years who did not feel the way I do about that subject. They put their own greed ahead of the greater good and what is, I believe, fundamentally right. I hold Auburn to higher standards also. I don't wish anything bad on RP. I just wish whatever is in store for his future is somewhere other than Auburn University.

I asked if you're comfortable having higher standards than Jesus. You're tap dancing around that question.

The Manson thing was a ridiculous thing to say. You cannot equate what he did and the severity of the consequences that rightly followed to Propst's sins.

AGAIN, my point was that when it comes to repentance, well sometimes that just isn't enough. You wanted to ask if I had higher morals than Jesus. As far as the Bible says, there really isn't any difference in what RP or Manson did, in God's eyes. As long as each asks for forgiveness, it will be granted. This has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible. Why you want to make it about that is beyond me. Are you related to RP? Maybe you are his agent? He is a known, admitted, convicted cheat. AGAIN, I don't want anybody like that associated with our University. I don't care if he did that 50 years ago and has spent the last 50 years hand feeding lepers. There are other Universities he could work at. He was a gump while at Hoover. Let him work for the gumps. It won't be the first time he has been paid ny them.

I would suggest you reread your bible then. Because there is a difference.

But I will say your standards are higher than God's because you would disqualify, apparently forever, a man from a bottom rung staff position due to his adultery and some rumors. Meanwhile God saw fit not just to forgive people like David, Moses, Abraham, Matthew, Peter, Paul and the like, but to make them leaders and put them in charge of leading His people. Something is seriously screwed up with that outlook.

[TitanTiger 20,563]

There is a difference between forgiving someone then turning around and hiring them for the same position they so royally screwed up in. I can forgive a man for embezzling but im not going to ask him to be my accountant. Rush propst could be a changed man. In fact I hope he is but the man lied for most of his career so forgive me for not wanting to jump back on the bandwagon. I hope auburn does not hire this man. I would very disappointed

Exactly what lying are we talking about here?

[Weegle777 78]

I think there's way too much hand-wringing and/or judgmentalism going on over a potential non-coaching position hire.

nah,it's not that....i just never liked probst and do not want him connected to AU in any fashion

I wasn't really directing it at you. I'm just surprised at how many folks are so inflexible when it comes to people screwing up in their past.

Because the guy just didn't "screw up" TT. He knowingly cheated, in just about every way you can. He cheated on his family. He cheated every way imaginable at th HS level with a football program. He would still be doing it if he had not been caught. A person that did what he did has no consciense. I know nobody is without sin. I just don't want people who are capable of that being associated with Auburn University in any way.

People that are capable of that are already associated with Auburn University. They are also your coworkers. They are also members of your immediate family, including yourself.

[TitanTiger 20,563]

There is a difference between forgiving someone then turning around and hiring them for the same position they so royally screwed up in. I can forgive a man for embezzling but im not going to ask him to be my accountant. Rush propst could be a changed man. In fact I hope he is but the man lied for most of his career so forgive me for not wanting to jump back on the bandwagon. I hope auburn does not hire this man. I would very disappointed

When this thread started I was ambivalent about whether he was hired or not. The moral snobbery going on has pushed me over into the camp of wanting it to actually happen just to give some of you the vapors and ruffle your delicate sensibilities.

[alexava 6,974]

I think 6 years of demonstrating change and repentance should be enough to allow one to be hired as an extremely low level quality control guy who helps break down film and be a glorified gofer for the coaching staff. Good grief some of you hardasses are beyond the pale. No ones suggesting making him the OC, QB coach or team chaplain. Sheesh. If Gus trusts him to take this grunt job and give him a foot in the door to the college coaching network, that's good enough for me.

When did this board become such a pack of moralistic bean counters handing out scarlet A's and making sure non of the unclean darken the doors of our holy temple?

i like that TItan. i would almost always agree with your reasoning. i am not a judgmental hardass, i just cant stand probst. and i think his lifestyle is forgivable by god, is not forgivable by society and the kids he fathered outside of his marriage.in other words god can do whatever he wants with the guy, i just have no use for him. with all that said if gus thinks he is good enough to be a part of what he is building with all these men of character and is aware of all the media backlash that will ensue then so be it.