Aufan59 71 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 The natural world does not progress from chaos to order. In fact, it goes from order to chaos. That is why it is difficult to believe that absolutely incredibly complicated organisms evolved from lesser complicated organisms. This is a complete butchery of the second law of thermodynamics. The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases, because isolated systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium—the state of maximum entropy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToomersRevenge 284 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Hate to break it to ya bud, but every person that walks this planet has some form of faith. I don't know why this nonsense is repeated. Are those with faith insecure that others don't need faith to live their lives? It's not your fault for not knowing, you can't have understanding of faith unless it is revealed to you by the Holy Spirit. I don't fault you. This is an untenable position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 It is interesting to see those with faith that do not know what faith is. I hope through simple examples I could show you that faith is more than hope or a belief. My friend, I know full well what faith and its definition is. I just chose to stop the meaningless back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Hate to break it to ya bud, but every person that walks this planet has some form of faith. I don't know why this nonsense is repeated. Are those with faith insecure that others don't need faith to live their lives? It's not your fault for not knowing, you can't have understanding of faith unless it is revealed to you by the Holy Spirit. I don't fault you. This is an untenable position. It's what I believe. I made the statement. I'm not trying to force you to believe what I believe, therefore I don't have to defend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Like I said earlier, which was ignored again, I don't fault unbelievers for their lack of belief in God, I fault believers(including myself) for not living lives filled with the power of God that is available to us that is supposed to be lived out before others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 71 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 My friend, I know full well what faith and its definition is. I just chose to stop the meaningless back and forth. You thought faith and hope were the same thing... Atheism doesn't take faith. I don't know why this is so hard for some to accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 My friend, I know full well what faith and its definition is. I just chose to stop the meaningless back and forth. You thought faith and hope were the same thing... Atheism doesn't take faith. I don't know why this is so hard for some to accept. Cool brother, I'll let you win this senseless argument. It's not worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 71 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Cool brother, I'll let you win this senseless argument. It's not worth the effort. From what I've read from you, you aren't the one to give up.... but I guess it isn't worth the effort when you are wrong and you know it. I don't really care if you have faith or not (I have faith myself). But I hate the arguement that atheism takes faith like theism does.... Simply false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,499 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Cool brother, I'll let you win this senseless argument. It's not worth the effort. From what I've read from you, you aren't the one to give up.... but I guess it isn't worth the effort when you are wrong and you know it. I don't really care if you have faith or not (I have faith myself). But I hate the arguement that atheism takes faith like theism does.... Simply false. Well I'm glad that mere assertions make you feel better. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Cool brother, I'll let you win this senseless argument. It's not worth the effort. From what I've read from you, you aren't the one to give up.... but I guess it isn't worth the effort when you are wrong and you know it. I don't really care if you have faith or not (I have faith myself). But I hate the arguement that atheism takes faith like theism does.... Simply false. I'm not wrong, if I were, I would admit it. I have before. This argument was over semantics, which if I really wanted to waste my time, I could pretty much destroy you on most of your posts. That's why it's a waste of time. Plus it just wastes space on this thread. Kinda like this post is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shire5k 19 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 After years of debating this topic (on one side or the other), I've learned one thing: You won't convince the other side to change their views. They have to do the research and figure it out for themselves. I used to be steadfast in my faith in god and the Christian church. I argued day and night against evolution and atheism and the big bang. No one could convince me that the Bible wasn't 100% true. No one except me. I researched and thought long and hard on my own...and I came to my own conclusions. Now I waffle between agnostic and deist...it's a process trying to figure out what really makes sense to me. I do 100% believe that evolution is fact, that the Bible is just a book, and that everyone (not just religious people) is a little bit crazy from time to time. Chiding religious people about their beliefs is stupid. Telling someone that praying is crazy is stupid. Telling someone that since they don't believe in evolution that they can't claim their Alma Mater (even if it is Auburn ) is supremely stupid. All I can say to Weegle and people like him is this: I disagree with you. Wow. That seems so much better than being a total @$$ about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 After years of debating this topic (on one side or the other), I've learned one thing: You won't convince the other side to change their views. They have to do the research and figure it out for themselves. I used to be steadfast in my faith in god and the Christian church. I argued day and night against evolution and atheism and the big bang. No one could convince me that the Bible wasn't 100% true. No one except me. I researched and thought long and hard on my own...and I came to my own conclusions. Now I waffle between agnostic and deist...it's a process trying to figure out what really makes sense to me. I do 100% believe that evolution is fact, that the Bible is just a book, and that everyone (not just religious people) is a little bit crazy from time to time. Chiding religious people about their beliefs is stupid. Telling someone that praying is crazy is stupid. Telling someone that since they don't believe in evolution that they can't claim their Alma Mater (even if it is Auburn ;)/> ) is supremely stupid. All I can say to Weegle and people like him is this: I disagree with you. Wow. That seems so much better than being a total @$$ about it. Nice post brother. Very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,499 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 After years of debating this topic (on one side or the other), I've learned one thing: You won't convince the other side to change their views. They have to do the research and figure it out for themselves. I used to be steadfast in my faith in god and the Christian church. I argued day and night against evolution and atheism and the big bang. I contend that these things are not dependent upon each other. You can believe in evolution and the Big Bang theory and be a Christian. No one could convince me that the Bible wasn't 100% true. Some believe the Bible is 100% true and still believe in evolution and the Big Bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shire5k 19 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 After years of debating this topic (on one side or the other), I've learned one thing: You won't convince the other side to change their views. They have to do the research and figure it out for themselves. I used to be steadfast in my faith in god and the Christian church. I argued day and night against evolution and atheism and the big bang. I contend that these things are not dependent upon each other. You can believe in evolution and the Big Bang theory and be a Christian. Agreed. That's just what I believed at that time. No one could convince me that the Bible wasn't 100% true.Some believe the Bible is 100% true and still believe in evolution and the Big Bang. Yes. That is a belief I had when I was transitioning from hardcore Bible thumper to the person I am today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 71 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 I'm not wrong, if I were, I would admit it. I have before. This argument was over semantics, which if I really wanted to waste my time, I could pretty much destroy you on most of your posts. That's why it's a waste of time. Plus it just wastes space on this thread. Kinda like this post is doing. You claimed hope and faith were the same thing. Would you say Christians hope that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 71 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 There are too many contradictions in the Bible to claim that it is 100% true. A simple example is that the Bible at one point claims Jehoiachin began to reign at age 18, and another part of the Bible claims Jehoiachin began to reign at age 8. How can both of these statements be true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 71 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Well I'm glad that mere assertions make you feel better. We'll just have to agree to disagree. A few definitions of faith for you from different dictionaries:Faith: complete trust or confidence in someone or something. Faith: firm belief in something for which there is no proof Faith: something that is believed especially with strong conviction I do not have complete trust or confidence, a firm belief, nor a strong conviction about any explanation of existence. By definition, I do not have faith in these explanations. Though I will agree that some atheists do have faith. For example Dawkins seems to be very confident that there is no god, he has faith. I'm not a fan of Dawkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM4AU 332 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 There are too many contradictions in the Bible to claim that it is 100% true. A simple example is that the Bible at one point claims Jehoiachin began to reign at age 18, and another part of the Bible claims Jehoiachin began to reign at age 8. How can both of these statements be true? As the Bible manuscripts were copied by hand, over the centuries, small and inconsequential errors were made. No textual variant has any impact on any important biblical doctrine. Virtually all of the variations involve numbers, spelling, or the presence of a preposition. In ancient Hebrew, the numbers 8 and 18 would have been differentiated by a very small mark. No matter how meticulous the scribes were, it would be understandable if one misread the number and recorded the wrong number on the new manuscript. The Bible is the best-preserved work from ancient times. There is more evidence for the Bible’s authenticity than for any literature of antiquity. Textual analysis begins with historical investigation, beginning with the latest documents and working backward. As evidence develops, the data is evaluated against other sources. The record is then checked for consistency, and the claims are analyzed as if it were a legal case, looking for credible testimony with cross-examination. There is an enormous amount of evidence for authenticity of the biblical manuscripts.There are about 10K copies of the OT manuscripts and the accuracy (the matching of words and sentences when compared) of the copies is 99.9%. Of the 24K NT manuscripts, there is a 99.97% accuracy of the copies. For comparison, there are between 600 and 650 copies of Homer's manuscripts and scholars agree there is an accuracy of around 95%. While I don't know how accurate they are, there are only 7 manuscripts for Plato, 49 for Aristotle, and 10 for Caesar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 71 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 As the Bible manuscripts were copied by hand, over the centuries, small and inconsequential errors were made. No textual variant has any impact on any important biblical doctrine. Virtually all of the variations involve numbers, spelling, or the presence of a preposition. In ancient Hebrew, the numbers 8 and 18 would have been differentiated by a very small mark. No matter how meticulous the scribes were, it would be understandable if one misread the number and recorded the wrong number on the new manuscript. The Bible is the best-preserved work from ancient times. There is more evidence for the Bible’s authenticity than for any literature of antiquity. Textual analysis begins with historical investigation, beginning with the latest documents and working backward. As evidence develops, the data is evaluated against other sources. The record is then checked for consistency, and the claims are analyzed as if it were a legal case, looking for credible testimony with cross-examination. There is an enormous amount of evidence for authenticity of the biblical manuscripts.There are about 10K copies of the OT manuscripts and the accuracy (the matching of words and sentences when compared) of the copies is 99.9%. Of the 24K NT manuscripts, there is a 99.97% accuracy of the copies. For comparison, there are between 600 and 650 copies of Homer's manuscripts and scholars agree there is an accuracy of around 95%. While I don't know how accurate they are, there are only 7 manuscripts for Plato, 49 for Aristotle, and 10 for Caesar. So you agree that it is not 100% true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj3jordan 2,056 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 There are too many contradictions in the Bible to claim that it is 100% true. A simple example is that the Bible at one point claims Jehoiachin began to reign at age 18, and another part of the Bible claims Jehoiachin began to reign at age 8. How can both of these statements be true? Really? That's what you got? Very strong position to denounce the Bible. Bring that one up to God when you are judged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 71 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Really? That's what you got? Very strong position to denounce the Bible. Bring that one up to God when you are judged. There are hundreds of other contradictions... we could spend all day. I remember crying to my mother as a child because I felt guilty for having not read the Bible even though I was a Christian. When I began to read the Bible, it didn't take me more than a few minutes to discover the contradictions in Genesis. But as I said before, this is a single, simple, clear cut example. There is no wiggle room for semantics or double meanings. One part of the Bible says 8, the others says 18, and they both cannot be correct. The Bible is not 100% true. Believing that the Bible is 100% true takes ignorance of the Bible, or denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Im not against the bible, i wish i was totally in awe of it. Its not clear on everything hence the dozens or even hundreds of different denominations who have faught about its meaning. Which is why my moral compass comes from inside my chest. When the holy spirit leads me in a different direction i will likely feel much different. I go with what feels right and deal with the guilt when i dont. I get too caught up in pure locic and common sense to follow a book that seems to skip sround logic and has millions of devout followers that vehemently disagree on how to follow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM4AU 332 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 As the Bible manuscripts were copied by hand, over the centuries, small and inconsequential errors were made. No textual variant has any impact on any important biblical doctrine. Virtually all of the variations involve numbers, spelling, or the presence of a preposition. In ancient Hebrew, the numbers 8 and 18 would have been differentiated by a very small mark. No matter how meticulous the scribes were, it would be understandable if one misread the number and recorded the wrong number on the new manuscript. The Bible is the best-preserved work from ancient times. There is more evidence for the Bible’s authenticity than for any literature of antiquity. Textual analysis begins with historical investigation, beginning with the latest documents and working backward. As evidence develops, the data is evaluated against other sources. The record is then checked for consistency, and the claims are analyzed as if it were a legal case, looking for credible testimony with cross-examination. There is an enormous amount of evidence for authenticity of the biblical manuscripts.There are about 10K copies of the OT manuscripts and the accuracy (the matching of words and sentences when compared) of the copies is 99.9%. Of the 24K NT manuscripts, there is a 99.97% accuracy of the copies. For comparison, there are between 600 and 650 copies of Homer's manuscripts and scholars agree there is an accuracy of around 95%. While I don't know how accurate they are, there are only 7 manuscripts for Plato, 49 for Aristotle, and 10 for Caesar. So you agree that it is not 100% true? Does the age of Jehoiachin change the message of the Bible? Comparing certain sources, Masoretic Text versions of 2 Chronicles 36:9 say that his rule began at the age of eight. The Septuagint and Syriac versions of that passage have his rulership starting at the age of eighteen. Challenor's note in the Douay-Rheims Bible reconciles this discrepancy as: "He was associated by his father to the kingdom, when he was but eight years old; but after his father's death, when he reigned alone, he was eighteen years old." So, whether it was an error in the copying of a 10,000 year old manuscript or semantics between writers, I don't see how this discredits the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Really? That's what you got? Very strong position to denounce the Bible. Bring that one up to God when you are judged. There are hundreds of other contradictions... we could spend all day. I remember crying to my mother as a child because I felt guilty for having not read the Bible even though I was a Christian. When I began to read the Bible, it didn't take me more than a few minutes to discover the contradictions in Genesis. But as I said before, this is a single, simple, clear cut example. There is no wiggle room for semantics or double meanings. One part of the Bible says 8, the others says 18, and they both cannot be correct. The Bible is not 100% true. Believing that the Bible is 100% true takes ignorance of the Bible, or denial. Probably one of the funniest and most arrogant statements I have ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 If i sound arrogant when i speak on this subject i dont mean to. Its just what i feel. I dont claim to be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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