Voter ID Issue

[TexasTiger 12,928]

BG is exceptionally naive, but he stays that way by choice.

Name the last job you had where you didn't have to show photo identification.

They were minimum wage and sub- minimum wage.

A lot of old folks don't have ID:

http://m.prnewswire....-163175076.html

Did you pay taxes?

Just because people say it will pose a burden doesn't make it so. You have an equal burden to prove that there's all these millions of people in the world who - not only don't have ID (bull****) and can't afford to obtain a FREE ID (also bull****) as you keep demanding we prove the presence of voter fraud.

Prove it. And I'm not talking about a single lady who's 85 years old and didn't get to vote. Show a pattern, prove it. I guarantee you for every documented case of an old person who legitimately has no ID, has no need for an ID, never retains government services requiring and ID, and never gets prescription medication and can't afford to reasonably procure a free ID - I can show you 10 cases of dead people voting.

1 in 5 people over 65 don't have an ID? How do they get prescription drugs? Illegally?

You know BG, your most annoying quality isn't you utter hardheadedness-- it's that your hardheadedness stems from your inability to fathom anyone's experience that doesn't match your own.

[TitanTiger 20,489]

It just seems to me that the sensible position is not to oppose photo IDs, but to make sure that such requirements have plenty of lead time to allow voters without IDs to acquire them, make sure that locations and means to get them are available to people who work all day (such as having some DMVs open into the evening and weekends), making sure that the cost is not prohibitive for the poor and so on. "Let's get every legal voter a photo ID" ASAP, not "Let's pretend photo IDs aren't necessary."

And let's not pretend fixing our computer or secure site vulnerabilities voter photo IDs are necessary without some good hard data to back it up.

That doesn't make any sense. You don't wait to see if people have already exploited the vulnerability before fixing it. You fix it because it's an obvious vulnerability.

Do you really feel that the things that make it more difficult for some poor people to obtain a photo ID are insurmountable? Is it really that hard given enough lead time and other accommodations to get everyone who is a legitimate voter a photo ID in time for an election?

Titan, do you honestly believe the jurisdictions passing these new requirements have any sincere interest in making it easy for folks to meet these requirements? All evidence I've seen is to the contrary.

That is a different subject from what I'm asking a question about. I simply asked if the concerns mentioned could be satisfactorily addressed, why would anyone oppose closing such an obvious fraud loophole?

Is there something innately wrong about being sure someone is who they claim to be? Regardless of what these particular places are doing in addition to requiring photo ID, what earthly reason could there be for opposing such a requirement? The right to vote is not so absolute that we don't have reasonable measures to ensure against identify fraud in voting.

[TexasTiger 12,928]

It just seems to me that the sensible position is not to oppose photo IDs, but to make sure that such requirements have plenty of lead time to allow voters without IDs to acquire them, make sure that locations and means to get them are available to people who work all day (such as having some DMVs open into the evening and weekends), making sure that the cost is not prohibitive for the poor and so on. "Let's get every legal voter a photo ID" ASAP, not "Let's pretend photo IDs aren't necessary."

And let's not pretend fixing our computer or secure site vulnerabilities voter photo IDs are necessary without some good hard data to back it up.

That doesn't make any sense. You don't wait to see if people have already exploited the vulnerability before fixing it. You fix it because it's an obvious vulnerability.

Do you really feel that the things that make it more difficult for some poor people to obtain a photo ID are insurmountable? Is it really that hard given enough lead time and other accommodations to get everyone who is a legitimate voter a photo ID in time for an election?

Titan, do you honestly believe the jurisdictions passing these new requirements have any sincere interest in making it easy for folks to meet these requirements? All evidence I've seen is to the contrary.

That is a different subject from what I'm asking a question about. I simply asked if the concerns mentioned could be satisfactorily addressed, why would anyone oppose closing such an obvious fraud loophole?

Your question is a true hypothetical, then, not connected to the real world we are living in. Kinda like libertarianism.

My question is real and you avoid it.

[TitanTiger 20,489]

It just seems to me that the sensible position is not to oppose photo IDs, but to make sure that such requirements have plenty of lead time to allow voters without IDs to acquire them, make sure that locations and means to get them are available to people who work all day (such as having some DMVs open into the evening and weekends), making sure that the cost is not prohibitive for the poor and so on. "Let's get every legal voter a photo ID" ASAP, not "Let's pretend photo IDs aren't necessary."

And let's not pretend fixing our computer or secure site vulnerabilities voter photo IDs are necessary without some good hard data to back it up.

That doesn't make any sense. You don't wait to see if people have already exploited the vulnerability before fixing it. You fix it because it's an obvious vulnerability.

Do you really feel that the things that make it more difficult for some poor people to obtain a photo ID are insurmountable? Is it really that hard given enough lead time and other accommodations to get everyone who is a legitimate voter a photo ID in time for an election?

Titan, do you honestly believe the jurisdictions passing these new requirements have any sincere interest in making it easy for folks to meet these requirements? All evidence I've seen is to the contrary.

That is a different subject from what I'm asking a question about. I simply asked if the concerns mentioned could be satisfactorily addressed, why would anyone oppose closing such an obvious fraud loophole?

Your question is a true hypothetical, then, not connected to the real world we are living in. Kinda like libertarianism.

My question is real and you avoid it.

I asked my question first. Try answering it first before getting snarky about me not addressing yours.

[TexasTiger 12,928]

It just seems to me that the sensible position is not to oppose photo IDs, but to make sure that such requirements have plenty of lead time to allow voters without IDs to acquire them, make sure that locations and means to get them are available to people who work all day (such as having some DMVs open into the evening and weekends), making sure that the cost is not prohibitive for the poor and so on. "Let's get every legal voter a photo ID" ASAP, not "Let's pretend photo IDs aren't necessary."

And let's not pretend fixing our computer or secure site vulnerabilities voter photo IDs are necessary without some good hard data to back it up.

That doesn't make any sense. You don't wait to see if people have already exploited the vulnerability before fixing it. You fix it because it's an obvious vulnerability.

Do you really feel that the things that make it more difficult for some poor people to obtain a photo ID are insurmountable? Is it really that hard given enough lead time and other accommodations to get everyone who is a legitimate voter a photo ID in time for an election?

Titan, do you honestly believe the jurisdictions passing these new requirements have any sincere interest in making it easy for folks to meet these requirements? All evidence I've seen is to the contrary.

That is a different subject from what I'm asking a question about. I simply asked if the concerns mentioned could be satisfactorily addressed, why would anyone oppose closing such an obvious fraud loophole?

Your question is a true hypothetical, then, not connected to the real world we are living in. Kinda like libertarianism.

My question is real and you avoid it.

I asked my question first. Try answering it first before getting snarky about me not addressing yours.

Titan, when you're interested in discussing the reality of the recent voter ID laws in America, let me know. If you're just going to hone your BG impression, it's hard to take you seriously.

We've seen what Republicans have done recently to restrict voting in NC. This problem is real. I'm not interested in your fantasy life.

[BamaGrad03 0]

You know BG, your most annoying quality isn't you utter hardheadedness-- it's that your hardheadedness stems from your inability to fathom anyone's experience that doesn't match your own.

Yours would most likely be that you're arrogant enough to think you know anything about me or where I came from. You just assume that anyone who dare believe that endless handouts don't result in societal improvement must be a rich white kid with no tough life experiences.

I will say this, I never had a minimum wage job. Not when I was 14, not when I was in college, never. And I worked my ass off. I've had a job since I was 12. I held 3 jobs at once at one point during life. And I put myself through college. Not my parents, not my government.

I wouldn't dare go into my employer's office and demand he give me more money if I hadn't first made myself more valuable to my company. And if, at 33 years old, I found myself equally as skilled as the 13 year old kid across the street, I'd find more skills, not demand more money.

I'm sure that makes me a raging a**hole. Other people think it, they're just uncomfortable saying it. But we keep saying - let's just give this last handout, then things will get better. They never get better. Because an endless stream of handouts disincentivizes production.

I'm all for improving people's lives who are mired in minimum wage skills. But giving them free money doesn't give them more skills. It just leaves them needing more money when the economy passes them by.

[TitanTiger 20,489]

Titan, when you're interested in discussing the reality of the recent voter ID laws in America, let me know. If you're just going to hone your BG impression, it's hard to take you seriously.

We've seen what Republicans have done recently to restrict voting in NC. This problem is real. I'm not interested in your fantasy life.

No, you're not interested in answering a simple question. I'll be happy to answer yours when you answer mine (even though if you paid attention to my posts you'd know my likely answer). But don't sit there acting like this and pretend its somehow my fault a discussion on this doesn't progress.

[TexasTiger 12,928]

You know BG, your most annoying quality isn't you utter hardheadedness-- it's that your hardheadedness stems from your inability to fathom anyone's experience that doesn't match your own.

Yours would most likely be that you're arrogant enough to think you know anything about me or where I came from. You just assume that anyone who dare believe that endless handouts don't result in societal improvement must be a rich white kid with no tough life experiences.

I will say this, I never had a minimum wage job. Not when I was 14, not when I was in college, never. And I worked my ass off. I've had a job since I was 12. I held 3 jobs at once at one point during life. And I put myself through college. Not my parents, not my government.

I wouldn't dare go into my employer's office and demand he give me more money if I hadn't first made myself more valuable to my company. And if, at 33 years old, I found myself equally as skilled as the 13 year old kid across the street, I'd find more skills, not demand more money.

I'm sure that makes me a raging a**hole. Other people think it, they're just uncomfortable saying it. But we keep saying - let's just give this last handout, then things will get better. They never get better. Because an endless stream of handouts disincentivizes production.

I'm all for improving people's lives who are mired in minimum wage skills. But giving them free money doesn't give them more skills. It just leaves them needing more money when the economy passes them by.

Weird off-topic rant. Unless you're equating poor and old people voting as giving them a handout.

[TexasTiger 12,928]

Titan, when you're interested in discussing the reality of the recent voter ID laws in America, let me know. If you're just going to hone your BG impression, it's hard to take you seriously.

We've seen what Republicans have done recently to restrict voting in NC. This problem is real. I'm not interested in your fantasy life.

No, you're not interested in answering a simple question. I'll be happy to answer yours when you answer mine (even though if you paid attention to my posts you'd know my likely answer). But don't sit there acting like this and pretend its somehow my fault a discussion on this doesn't progress.

You've made it clear it would be a waste of time.

[TitanTiger 20,489]

Titan, when you're interested in discussing the reality of the recent voter ID laws in America, let me know. If you're just going to hone your BG impression, it's hard to take you seriously.

We've seen what Republicans have done recently to restrict voting in NC. This problem is real. I'm not interested in your fantasy life.

No, you're not interested in answering a simple question. I'll be happy to answer yours when you answer mine (even though if you paid attention to my posts you'd know my likely answer). But don't sit there acting like this and pretend its somehow my fault a discussion on this doesn't progress.

You've made it clear it would be a waste of time.

Not at all. I'm more than happy to have a discussion. I just get tired of this tactic.

[TexasTiger 12,928]

Titan, when you're interested in discussing the reality of the recent voter ID laws in America, let me know. If you're just going to hone your BG impression, it's hard to take you seriously.

We've seen what Republicans have done recently to restrict voting in NC. This problem is real. I'm not interested in your fantasy life.

No, you're not interested in answering a simple question. I'll be happy to answer yours when you answer mine (even though if you paid attention to my posts you'd know my likely answer). But don't sit there acting like this and pretend its somehow my fault a discussion on this doesn't progress.

You've made it clear it would be a waste of time.

Not at all. I'm more than happy to have a discussion. I just get tired of this tactic.

Yeah, and I'm sick of the one you're playing, too.

[BamaGrad03 0]

You know BG, your most annoying quality isn't you utter hardheadedness-- it's that your hardheadedness stems from your inability to fathom anyone's experience that doesn't match your own.

Yours would most likely be that you're arrogant enough to think you know anything about me or where I came from. You just assume that anyone who dare believe that endless handouts don't result in societal improvement must be a rich white kid with no tough life experiences.

I will say this, I never had a minimum wage job. Not when I was 14, not when I was in college, never. And I worked my ass off. I've had a job since I was 12. I held 3 jobs at once at one point during life. And I put myself through college. Not my parents, not my government.

I wouldn't dare go into my employer's office and demand he give me more money if I hadn't first made myself more valuable to my company. And if, at 33 years old, I found myself equally as skilled as the 13 year old kid across the street, I'd find more skills, not demand more money.

I'm sure that makes me a raging a**hole. Other people think it, they're just uncomfortable saying it. But we keep saying - let's just give this last handout, then things will get better. They never get better. Because an endless stream of handouts disincentivizes production.

I'm all for improving people's lives who are mired in minimum wage skills. But giving them free money doesn't give them more skills. It just leaves them needing more money when the economy passes them by.

Weird off-topic rant. Unless you're equating poor and old people voting as giving them a handout.

Sorry, I have my threads mixed up. Thought this was the minimum wage one.

You still are projecting some absurd limitation that doesn't exist. Old people who don't have an ID, who don't get prescription medications, who can't get a ride to get a free ID, who get no government services. I said these mythical creatures are rare - and you tell me I just can't relate to other people's life experiences?

Seems weird.

[TitanTiger 20,489]

Titan, when you're interested in discussing the reality of the recent voter ID laws in America, let me know. If you're just going to hone your BG impression, it's hard to take you seriously.

We've seen what Republicans have done recently to restrict voting in NC. This problem is real. I'm not interested in your fantasy life.

No, you're not interested in answering a simple question. I'll be happy to answer yours when you answer mine (even though if you paid attention to my posts you'd know my likely answer). But don't sit there acting like this and pretend its somehow my fault a discussion on this doesn't progress.

You've made it clear it would be a waste of time.

Not at all. I'm more than happy to have a discussion. I just get tired of this tactic.

Yeah, and I'm sick of the one you're playing, too.

I'm not playing anything. I'm asking you to answer a simple question before acting indignant that I won't answer yours.

[TexasTiger 12,928]

Titan, when you're interested in discussing the reality of the recent voter ID laws in America, let me know. If you're just going to hone your BG impression, it's hard to take you seriously.

We've seen what Republicans have done recently to restrict voting in NC. This problem is real. I'm not interested in your fantasy life.

No, you're not interested in answering a simple question. I'll be happy to answer yours when you answer mine (even though if you paid attention to my posts you'd know my likely answer). But don't sit there acting like this and pretend its somehow my fault a discussion on this doesn't progress.

You've made it clear it would be a waste of time.

Not at all. I'm more than happy to have a discussion. I just get tired of this tactic.

Yeah, and I'm sick of the one you're playing, too.

I'm not playing anything. I'm asking you to answer a simple question before acting indignant that I won't answer yours.

Right. Later, brother.

[TitanTiger 20,489]

Right. Later, brother.

Ok. You just let me know when you actually want to discuss the matter and not just on the questions you choose. I'll be happy to answer yours truthfully when you get off your high horse and answer mine.

[TexasTiger 12,928]

Right. Later, brother.

Ok. You just let me know when you actually want to discuss the matter and not just on the questions you choose. I'll be happy to answer yours truthfully when you get off your high horse and answer mine.

Right. High horse. Pot. Meet. Kettle.

[TitanTiger 20,489]

Right. Later, brother.

Ok. You just let me know when you actually want to discuss the matter and not just on the questions you choose. I'll be happy to answer yours truthfully when you get off your high horse and answer mine.

Right. High horse. Pot. Meet. Kettle.

I asked a question. You, sir, decided not to respond then get snotty when I refused to proceed strictly on your terms. Answer it or don't answer it, but don't get in a snit or act like the other person is the one afraid of a topic because they don't jump when you tell them to.

[TexasTiger 12,928]

Right. Later, brother.

Ok. You just let me know when you actually want to discuss the matter and not just on the questions you choose. I'll be happy to answer yours truthfully when you get off your high horse and answer mine.

Right. High horse. Pot. Meet. Kettle.

I asked a question. You, sir, decided not to respond then get snotty when I refused to proceed strictly on your terms. Answer it or don't answer it, but don't get in a snit or act like the other person is the one afraid of a topic because they don't jump when you tell them to.

You're asking about life in a mythical place. Policies and laws happen in the real world. Discussions about shangri-la probably belong in all things considered.

[TitanTiger 20,489]

Right. Later, brother.

Ok. You just let me know when you actually want to discuss the matter and not just on the questions you choose. I'll be happy to answer yours truthfully when you get off your high horse and answer mine.

Right. High horse. Pot. Meet. Kettle.

I asked a question. You, sir, decided not to respond then get snotty when I refused to proceed strictly on your terms. Answer it or don't answer it, but don't get in a snit or act like the other person is the one afraid of a topic because they don't jump when you tell them to.

You're asking about life in a mythical place. Policies and laws happen in the real world. Discussions about shangri-la probably belong in all things considered.

No, I asked a straight forward question that can lead to us exploring this issue more thoroughly. Theoretical questions are common in regular discussions of important matters. It helps separate the layers of a subject that's being debated. I don't mind answering your question as fully and truthfully as I can but I'm simply not going to play the game where you avoid questions you don't like then start firing other ones back. If you want to actually discuss the matter, then participate as fully as you expect me to. And have the common courtesy to answer the question posed to you first before getting butthurt that someone won't jump on yours.

[TexasTiger 12,928]

You know BG, your most annoying quality isn't you utter hardheadedness-- it's that your hardheadedness stems from your inability to fathom anyone's experience that doesn't match your own.

Yours would most likely be that you're arrogant enough to think you know anything about me or where I came from. You just assume that anyone who dare believe that endless handouts don't result in societal improvement must be a rich white kid with no tough life experiences.

I will say this, I never had a minimum wage job. Not when I was 14, not when I was in college, never. And I worked my ass off. I've had a job since I was 12. I held 3 jobs at once at one point during life. And I put myself through college. Not my parents, not my government.

I wouldn't dare go into my employer's office and demand he give me more money if I hadn't first made myself more valuable to my company. And if, at 33 years old, I found myself equally as skilled as the 13 year old kid across the street, I'd find more skills, not demand more money.

I'm sure that makes me a raging a**hole. Other people think it, they're just uncomfortable saying it. But we keep saying - let's just give this last handout, then things will get better. They never get better. Because an endless stream of handouts disincentivizes production.

I'm all for improving people's lives who are mired in minimum wage skills. But giving them free money doesn't give them more skills. It just leaves them needing more money when the economy passes them by.

Weird off-topic rant. Unless you're equating poor and old people voting as giving them a handout.

Sorry, I have my threads mixed up. Thought this was the minimum wage one.

You still are projecting some absurd limitation that doesn't exist. Old people who don't have an ID, who don't get prescription medications, who can't get a ride to get a free ID, who get no government services. I said these mythical creatures are rare - and you tell me I just can't relate to other people's life experiences?

Seems weird.

Seems weird to you b/c it's outside your experience-- as hardworking as that experience may be.

I will guarantee you that my mother didn't show an ID at her pharmacy the last 40 years of her life. I don't show a photo ID at mine.

In PA there was insufficient time for the state to even process these IDs before the next election. And the purpose had little if anything to do with fraud. If you have really followed the NC law (ID is just one component of the law and state issued college IDs don't count) and the aftermath you will know it is about suppressing Democratic vote.

[homersapien 11,382]

1) How does one get a job without an ID?

2) You also avoided my link that provides proof that voter fraud exists.

1. You've never worked in construction or manual labor job have you?

2. See post # 82. (Are you a pot smoker too???!!! :-\ )

[homersapien 11,382]

I forgot defending a rival fan would raise the ire of you two AE guys. Both of you are such an asset to this board. I really mean that. Seriously.

Oh Puhleeeeeze. This has nothing to do with "defending a rival fan". :-\

I am very proud of this forum for allowing a "rival fan" to post here. Considering the number of posts he's made, he's obviously not the typical Updike. That is to BamaGrad's credit as well as a tribute to the moderators that he's still around. I like being able to say we have our own bammer, even if it's a "token" one.

As far as calling him a "bammer", well, that's what he is. My favorite niece just became one. If that's insulting to BamaGrad, then let him tell us so. (Not that it will stop me from calling him that)

You are just defending him because you agree with the DA arguments for which he is getting beat up a little.

[homersapien 11,382]

BG is exceptionally naive, but he stays that way by choice.

Name the last job you had where you didn't have to show photo identification.

They were minimum wage and sub- minimum wage.

A lot of old folks don't have ID:

http://m.prnewswire....-163175076.html

Did you pay taxes?

Just because people say it will pose a burden doesn't make it so. You have an equal burden to prove that there's all these millions of people in the world who - not only don't have ID (bull****) and can't afford to obtain a FREE ID (also bull****) as you keep demanding we prove the presence of voter fraud.

Prove it. And I'm not talking about a single lady who's 85 years old and didn't get to vote. Show a pattern, prove it. I guarantee you for every documented case of an old person who legitimately has no ID, has no need for an ID, never retains government services requiring and ID, and never gets prescription medication and can't afford to reasonably procure a free ID - I can show you 10 cases of dead people voting.

1 in 5 people over 65 don't have an ID? How do they get prescription drugs? Illegally?

You know BG, your most annoying quality isn't you utter hardheadedness-- it's that your hardheadedness stems from your inability to fathom anyone's experience that doesn't match your own.

Seriously. He sounds like someone who grew up in a very wealthy environment. This is a boy who never dug ditches.

[homersapien 11,382]

It just seems to me that the sensible position is not to oppose photo IDs, but to make sure that such requirements have plenty of lead time to allow voters without IDs to acquire them, make sure that locations and means to get them are available to people who work all day (such as having some DMVs open into the evening and weekends), making sure that the cost is not prohibitive for the poor and so on. "Let's get every legal voter a photo ID" ASAP, not "Let's pretend photo IDs aren't necessary."

And let's not pretend fixing our computer or secure site vulnerabilities voter photo IDs are necessary without some good hard data to back it up.

That doesn't make any sense. You don't wait to see if people have already exploited the vulnerability before fixing it. You fix it because it's an obvious vulnerability.

Do you really feel that the things that make it more difficult for some poor people to obtain a photo ID are insurmountable? Is it really that hard given enough lead time and other accommodations to get everyone who is a legitimate voter a photo ID in time for an election?

Titan, do you honestly believe the jurisdictions passing these new requirements have any sincere interest in making it easy for folks to meet these requirements? All evidence I've seen is to the contrary.

That is a different subject from what I'm asking a question about. 1) I simply asked if the concerns mentioned could be satisfactorily addressed, why would anyone oppose closing such an obvious fraud loophole?

2) Is there something innately wrong about being sure someone is who they claim to be? Regardless of what these particular places are doing in addition to requiring photo ID, what earthly reason could there be for opposing such a requirement? The right to vote is not so absolute that we don't have reasonable measures to ensure against identify fraud in voting.

1) No reason. But I just proposed a hypothetical system and you rejected it.

2) No. But if that can be accomplished with current methods, why change to a system that creates barriers to specific voter population segments?

[homersapien 11,382]

You know BG, your most annoying quality isn't you utter hardheadedness-- it's that your hardheadedness stems from your inability to fathom anyone's experience that doesn't match your own.

Yours would most likely be that you're arrogant enough to think you know anything about me or where I came from. You just assume that anyone who dare believe that endless handouts don't result in societal improvement must be a rich white kid with no tough life experiences.

I will say this, I never had a minimum wage job. Not when I was 14, not when I was in college, never. And I worked my ass off. I've had a job since I was 12. I held 3 jobs at once at one point during life. And I put myself through college. Not my parents, not my government.

I wouldn't dare go into my employer's office and demand he give me more money if I hadn't first made myself more valuable to my company. And if, at 33 years old, I found myself equally as skilled as the 13 year old kid across the street, I'd find more skills, not demand more money.

I'm sure that makes me a raging a**hole. Other people think it, they're just uncomfortable saying it. But we keep saying - let's just give this last handout, then things will get better. They never get better. Because an endless stream of handouts disincentivizes production.

I'm all for improving people's lives who are mired in minimum wage skills. But giving them free money doesn't give them more skills. It just leaves them needing more money when the economy passes them by.

Tell us how many of those jobs you had provided you a photo ID. (Remember, that was the issue)