TheBlueVue 177 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Well, there is officially the first time I've even seen anyone call Titan a liberal, lol. I dont know and dont care but he's sure selling the other side as hard as he can and thats fine That's because your prism seemingly only allows you to see one side or the other. Your side is right and the other side, by default, is wrong. And any recognition that maybe the paradigm that tells you what the sides are in the first place is mis-calibrated or that sometimes the "other side" has a good point or that "our side" screwed up is sedition. When the other side has doubled the national debt in 5 years with no restraint in sight and is ignoring the $90 trillion in unfunded liabilities in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid to the extent they're pusing yet another $3 trillion dollar entitlement I think that's a fight worth fighting regardless of your opinion of the tactics I cant see the merit of the other sides policies...sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,447 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I dont recall hearing anyone EVER say this was a politically expedient fight. Your position is contextually ALL predicated on the politics. Principle is worth fighting for but evidently you've been so swayed by the "pundits" you seem willing to believe this is the end of the republican party. LOL Its not. Your post speaks volumes about your true feelings. Thanks for posting I know exactly what Im dealing with now. You easily fall in among the quislings, unless of course, you're a liberal which seems to becoming more and more evident. Fighting for principle with stupid means is even worse. You're taking an important thing you really want people to pay attention to and to see the same value in that you do and tying a millstone around its neck to watch it drown. It's akin to Christians who have this message of salvation in Christ but go out and spread it by screaming red-faced on street corners at people stopped at a traffic signal. You might be doing it for the right reasons, but the means you've chosen completely obscure the message. Good analogy. And while you may not be a "liberal" (as in...), you are at least rational. Of course, that makes you liberal in Blues world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,510 Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Well, there is officially the first time I've even seen anyone call Titan a liberal, lol. I dont know and dont care but he's sure selling the other side as hard as he can and thats fine That's because your prism seemingly only allows you to see one side or the other. Your side is right and the other side, by default, is wrong. And any recognition that maybe the paradigm that tells you what the sides are in the first place is mis-calibrated or that sometimes the "other side" has a good point or that "our side" screwed up is sedition. When the other side has doubled the national debt in 5 years with no restraint in sight and is ignoring the $90 trillion in unfunded liabilities in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid to the extent they're pusing yet another $3 trillion dollar entitlement I think that a fight worth fighting regardless of your opinion of the tactics Well, keep fighting it in the dumb way and you'll guarantee no one ever bothers to listen. Or the GOP can wise up and learn how to communicate their issues to voters in ways that people might actually listen and agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Well, there is officially the first time I've even seen anyone call Titan a liberal, lol. I dont know and dont care but he's sure selling the other side as hard as he can and thats fine That's because your prism seemingly only allows you to see one side or the other. Your side is right and the other side, by default, is wrong. And any recognition that maybe the paradigm that tells you what the sides are in the first place is mis-calibrated or that sometimes the "other side" has a good point or that "our side" screwed up is sedition. When the other side has doubled the national debt in 5 years with no restraint in sight and is ignoring the $90 trillion in unfunded liabilities in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid to the extent they're pusing yet another $3 trillion dollar entitlement I think that a fight worth fighting regardless of your opinion of the tactics Well, keep fighting it in the dumb way and you'll guarantee no one ever bothers to listen. Or the GOP can wise up and learn how to communicate their issues to voters in ways that people might actually listen and agree. LOL maybe they should call you. Clearly, you got ALL the answers. Are you in politics? Oh, and its good to know you;re here speaking for everyone! hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Titan, with all this discussion that began with articles you linked. I'm curious.........if you were a House Republican, what strategy would you have suggested taking after Obama and Reid said "no compromise"? Well, I don't know that I've formulated a comprehensive plan. Knowing exactly what to do doesn't preclude one from being able to spot a losing strategy when you see one though. The problem the Republicans are running up against was mentioned in the article. They consistently misread the public's temperature based on the heated rhetoric they hear amongst their own. This is part of the problem with all the gerrymandering of Congressional districts that has occurred which makes most House races a foregone conclusion. If you are representing a sprawling district drawn up solely for the purpose of delivering an easy win for your party, you're not really hearing much in the way of opposing views. And you start to think the views so fervently fought for in your little hothouse are far more popular than they really are. But the truth is, the public voted in a bunch of folks in the Senate and House that supported Obamacare. They reelected a president who pushed it. They might have issues with this or that aspect of it, but they evidently don't hate it like you do. So couple that fact -- and it is a fact, not an opinion -- with a tactic that makes hundreds of thousands of middle class workers miss paychecks, hurts thousands of small businesses whose livelihood intersects with government (private business near national parks, military bases, historic sites, etc) and inconveniences millions of others and you've got a recipe for disaster. Stevie Wonder could have seen that cluster**** coming a mile away. Even if you fully support the defunding aim, it was an act of colossal hubris to tie it to such an unpopular means of achieving it. The Republicans are not speaking the language of the average guy. That is exemplified in this nugget from the other article I posted: Senator Mike Lee introduced a family-friendly tax reform plan that would have cut taxes on working parents and improved the work incentives of parents below the earnings median (people who the establishment’s Mitt Romney referred to as parasites who would not take responsibility for their own lives). Lee and his colleague Ted Cruz then obliterated any chance for a sustained public discussion of this tax plan by their counterproductive shutdown strategy. The folks who inexplicably thought this was a winning play cut off their nose to spite their face. When the Republicans figure out how to appeal to middle class folks that worry about stagnant wages, capricious health insurance companies, a continuing pattern of the rich getting richer while regular folks just try to tread water -- and to realize that simply saying "tax cuts" over and over again like a parrot isn't a plan -- they will be able to use those principles to make better decisions than they did this time around. If they don't, they will be decimated. I dont recall hearing anyone EVER say this was a politically expedient fight. Your position is contextually ALL predicated on the politics. Principle is worth fighting for but evidently you've been so swayed by the "pundits" you seem willing to believe this is the end of the republican party. LOL Its not. Your post speaks volumes about your true feelings. Thanks for posting I know exactly what Im dealing with now. You easily fall in among the quislings, unless of course, you're a liberal which seems to becoming more and more evident. Everyone but you is a liberal. All one has to do, is disagree with you in the least and they immediately become a vile, evil, liberal (in your world). You are destined to be a party of one. Maybe you can point out where I posted ANYONE was vile or evil. I'd appreciate you not projecting your style onto me. Actually you're mistaken. I had no problem with Titan's opinion and agreed to disagree but he kept on and kept on to the point he came across as if he was happy about the rights recent mistakes. Im pretty sure everyone agrees tactically they failed. My assessment of their failure,however, is that they gave up not that they fought the fight at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,510 Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Well, there is officially the first time I've even seen anyone call Titan a liberal, lol. I dont know and dont care but he's sure selling the other side as hard as he can and thats fine That's because your prism seemingly only allows you to see one side or the other. Your side is right and the other side, by default, is wrong. And any recognition that maybe the paradigm that tells you what the sides are in the first place is mis-calibrated or that sometimes the "other side" has a good point or that "our side" screwed up is sedition. When the other side has doubled the national debt in 5 years with no restraint in sight and is ignoring the $90 trillion in unfunded liabilities in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid to the extent they're pusing yet another $3 trillion dollar entitlement I think that a fight worth fighting regardless of your opinion of the tactics Well, keep fighting it in the dumb way and you'll guarantee no one ever bothers to listen. Or the GOP can wise up and learn how to communicate their issues to voters in ways that people might actually listen and agree. LOL maybe they should call you. Clearly, you got ALL the answers. Are you in politics? Oh, and its good to know you;re here speaking for everyone! hahaha Actually, I specifically said I DON'T have all the answers. But one doesn't need to have all the answers to spot a terrible idea when they see it. It doesn't matter whether the issue is politics, religion or something else entirely. If you want people who don't already agree with you to come over to your side on a matter of principle, don't use a means of propagating that message that will likely piss them off. It's completely counter productive and it doesn't take a Mensa candidate to understand that. Why is that such a tough concept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Well, there is officially the first time I've even seen anyone call Titan a liberal, lol. I dont know and dont care but he's sure selling the other side as hard as he can and thats fine That's because your prism seemingly only allows you to see one side or the other. Your side is right and the other side, by default, is wrong. And any recognition that maybe the paradigm that tells you what the sides are in the first place is mis-calibrated or that sometimes the "other side" has a good point or that "our side" screwed up is sedition. When the other side has doubled the national debt in 5 years with no restraint in sight and is ignoring the $90 trillion in unfunded liabilities in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid to the extent they're pusing yet another $3 trillion dollar entitlement I think that a fight worth fighting regardless of your opinion of the tactics Well, keep fighting it in the dumb way and you'll guarantee no one ever bothers to listen. Or the GOP can wise up and learn how to communicate their issues to voters in ways that people might actually listen and agree. LOL maybe they should call you. Clearly, you got ALL the answers. Are you in politics? Oh, and its good to know you;re here speaking for everyone! hahaha Actually, I specifically said I DON'T have all the answers. But one doesn't need to have all the answers to spot a terrible idea when they see it. It doesn't matter whether the issue is politics, religion or something else entirely. If you want people who don't already agree with you to come over to your side on a matter of principle, don't use a means of propagating that message that will likely piss them off. It's completely counter productive and it doesn't take a Mensa candidate to understand that. Why is that such a tough concept? Because it lacks context. It seems they pissed you off. Would you like a personal apology from someone? They were shut out. They got frustrated not only by the president but by the lack of resolve in their own party. I think you've made your opinion clear. You think they were stupid. I got it but if you feel irresistibly compelled to continue to relentlessly hammer that til your knuckles bleed..be my guest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Titan, with all this discussion that began with articles you linked. I'm curious.........if you were a House Republican, what strategy would you have suggested taking after Obama and Reid said "no compromise"? Well, I don't know that I've formulated a comprehensive plan. Knowing exactly what to do doesn't preclude one from being able to spot a losing strategy when you see one though. The problem the Republicans are running up against was mentioned in the article. They consistently misread the public's temperature based on the heated rhetoric they hear amongst their own. This is part of the problem with all the gerrymandering of Congressional districts that has occurred which makes most House races a foregone conclusion. If you are representing a sprawling district drawn up solely for the purpose of delivering an easy win for your party, you're not really hearing much in the way of opposing views. And you start to think the views so fervently fought for in your little hothouse are far more popular than they really are. But the truth is, the public voted in a bunch of folks in the Senate and House that supported Obamacare. They reelected a president who pushed it. They might have issues with this or that aspect of it, but they evidently don't hate it like you do. So couple that fact -- and it is a fact, not an opinion -- with a tactic that makes hundreds of thousands of middle class workers miss paychecks, hurts thousands of small businesses whose livelihood intersects with government (private business near national parks, military bases, historic sites, etc) and inconveniences millions of others and you've got a recipe for disaster. Stevie Wonder could have seen that cluster**** coming a mile away. Even if you fully support the defunding aim, it was an act of colossal hubris to tie it to such an unpopular means of achieving it. The Republicans are not speaking the language of the average guy. That is exemplified in this nugget from the other article I posted: Senator Mike Lee introduced a family-friendly tax reform plan that would have cut taxes on working parents and improved the work incentives of parents below the earnings median (people who the establishment’s Mitt Romney referred to as parasites who would not take responsibility for their own lives). Lee and his colleague Ted Cruz then obliterated any chance for a sustained public discussion of this tax plan by their counterproductive shutdown strategy. The folks who inexplicably thought this was a winning play cut off their nose to spite their face. When the Republicans figure out how to appeal to middle class folks that worry about stagnant wages, capricious health insurance companies, a continuing pattern of the rich getting richer while regular folks just try to tread water -- and to realize that simply saying "tax cuts" over and over again like a parrot isn't a plan -- they will be able to use those principles to make better decisions than they did this time around. If they don't, they will be decimated. I dont recall hearing anyone EVER say this was a politically expedient fight. Your position is contextually ALL predicated on the politics. Principle is worth fighting for but evidently you've been so swayed by the "pundits" you seem willing to believe this is the end of the republican party. LOL Its not. Your post speaks volumes about your true feelings. Thanks for posting I know exactly what Im dealing with now. You easily fall in among the quislings, unless of course, you're a liberal which seems to becoming more and more evident. Everyone but you is a liberal. All one has to do, is disagree with you in the least and they immediately become a vile, evil, liberal (in your world). You are destined to be a party of one. Maybe you can point out where I posted ANYONE was vile or evil. I'd appreciate you not projecting your style onto me. Actually you're mistaken. I had no problem with Titan's opinion and agreed to disagree but he kept on and kept on to the point he came across as if he was happy about the rights recent mistakes. Im pretty sure everyone agrees tactically they failed. My assessment of their failure,however, is that they gave up not that they fought the fight at all. So, how do you feel about liberals? You realize of course, this will turn out the same way as your argument about not being uncompromising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Titan, with all this discussion that began with articles you linked. I'm curious.........if you were a House Republican, what strategy would you have suggested taking after Obama and Reid said "no compromise"? Well, I don't know that I've formulated a comprehensive plan. Knowing exactly what to do doesn't preclude one from being able to spot a losing strategy when you see one though. The problem the Republicans are running up against was mentioned in the article. They consistently misread the public's temperature based on the heated rhetoric they hear amongst their own. This is part of the problem with all the gerrymandering of Congressional districts that has occurred which makes most House races a foregone conclusion. If you are representing a sprawling district drawn up solely for the purpose of delivering an easy win for your party, you're not really hearing much in the way of opposing views. And you start to think the views so fervently fought for in your little hothouse are far more popular than they really are. But the truth is, the public voted in a bunch of folks in the Senate and House that supported Obamacare. They reelected a president who pushed it. They might have issues with this or that aspect of it, but they evidently don't hate it like you do. So couple that fact -- and it is a fact, not an opinion -- with a tactic that makes hundreds of thousands of middle class workers miss paychecks, hurts thousands of small businesses whose livelihood intersects with government (private business near national parks, military bases, historic sites, etc) and inconveniences millions of others and you've got a recipe for disaster. Stevie Wonder could have seen that cluster**** coming a mile away. Even if you fully support the defunding aim, it was an act of colossal hubris to tie it to such an unpopular means of achieving it. The Republicans are not speaking the language of the average guy. That is exemplified in this nugget from the other article I posted: Senator Mike Lee introduced a family-friendly tax reform plan that would have cut taxes on working parents and improved the work incentives of parents below the earnings median (people who the establishment’s Mitt Romney referred to as parasites who would not take responsibility for their own lives). Lee and his colleague Ted Cruz then obliterated any chance for a sustained public discussion of this tax plan by their counterproductive shutdown strategy. The folks who inexplicably thought this was a winning play cut off their nose to spite their face. When the Republicans figure out how to appeal to middle class folks that worry about stagnant wages, capricious health insurance companies, a continuing pattern of the rich getting richer while regular folks just try to tread water -- and to realize that simply saying "tax cuts" over and over again like a parrot isn't a plan -- they will be able to use those principles to make better decisions than they did this time around. If they don't, they will be decimated. I dont recall hearing anyone EVER say this was a politically expedient fight. Your position is contextually ALL predicated on the politics. Principle is worth fighting for but evidently you've been so swayed by the "pundits" you seem willing to believe this is the end of the republican party. LOL Its not. Your post speaks volumes about your true feelings. Thanks for posting I know exactly what Im dealing with now. You easily fall in among the quislings, unless of course, you're a liberal which seems to becoming more and more evident. Everyone but you is a liberal. All one has to do, is disagree with you in the least and they immediately become a vile, evil, liberal (in your world). You are destined to be a party of one. Maybe you can point out where I posted ANYONE was vile or evil. I'd appreciate you not projecting your style onto me. Actually you're mistaken. I had no problem with Titan's opinion and agreed to disagree but he kept on and kept on to the point he came across as if he was happy about the rights recent mistakes. Im pretty sure everyone agrees tactically they failed. My assessment of their failure,however, is that they gave up not that they fought the fight at all. So, how do you feel about liberals? You realize of course, this will turn out the same way as your argument about not being uncompromising. I think they are entitled to their opinions and politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auburnfan91 1,407 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 The Republican party needs a complete restructuring. John Boehner has to go. He's not getting the job done. You don't have a be a tea party conservative to see he's not helping Republcans at all. If he was any kind of leader he wouldn't have let the shutdown happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channonc 466 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 The Republican party needs a complete restructuring. John Boehner has to go. He's not getting the job done. You don't have a be a tea party conservative to see he's not helping Republcans at all. If he was any kind of leader he wouldn't have let the shutdown happen. Who should be his replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 The Republican party needs a complete restructuring. John Boehner has to go. He's not getting the job done. You don't have a be a tea party conservative to see he's not helping Republcans at all. If he was any kind of leader he wouldn't have let the shutdown happen. Who should be his replacement? John Boehner is made to look bad in this situation just like a QB looks awful when his line doesn't protect him. Right now the republican party is divided. Im not convinced anyone would've been able too whip the entire party into line. Too many quislings eager to capitulate to whatever the left wants just to maintain the status quo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augolf1716 21,303 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,510 Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 The Republican party needs a complete restructuring. John Boehner has to go. He's not getting the job done. You don't have a be a tea party conservative to see he's not helping Republcans at all. If he was any kind of leader he wouldn't have let the shutdown happen. Who should be his replacement? John Boehner is made to look bad in this situation just like a QB looks awful when his line doesn't protect him. Right now the republican party is divided. Im not convinced anyone would've been able too whip the entire party into line. Too many quislings eager to capitulate to whatever the left wants just to maintain the status quo Yeah, the entire problem was that we didn't have enough Ted Cruzes. The Tea Party strategy can never fail, it can only be failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,510 Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Tangent deleted. Carry on everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augolf1716 21,303 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Sounds good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channonc 466 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 The Republican party needs a complete restructuring. John Boehner has to go. He's not getting the job done. You don't have a be a tea party conservative to see he's not helping Republcans at all. If he was any kind of leader he wouldn't have let the shutdown happen. Who should be his replacement? John Boehner is made to look bad in this situation just like a QB looks awful when his line doesn't protect him. Right now the republican party is divided. Im not convinced anyone would've been able too whip the entire party into line. Too many quislings eager to capitulate to whatever the left wants just to maintain the status quo So in your opinion, he doesn't need to be replaced? Just trying to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Every issue with this faction of the Republican Party is one of principle and conviction. If you are convicted about everything, then you are convicted about nothing. And I still don't understand the complete rage and venom being spewed about everything. Our government not perfect, but we should all work together to try to make it work for everyone. If there was less anger and hatred and more people working together, I think all Americans would benefit. I agree all the hate and venom are not productive. But at the same time I think people have just lost confidence in the gov'ts ability to run anything efficiently. I can't think of one gov't agency right now that would last if it had to be run like a private corporation. As you know, I retired from NASA and right now even NASA is a mess.......no real goal, no realistic plan......except to spend $17 and whine for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 The Republican party needs a complete restructuring. John Boehner has to go. He's not getting the job done. You don't have a be a tea party conservative to see he's not helping Republcans at all. If he was any kind of leader he wouldn't have let the shutdown happen. Who should be his replacement? John Boehner is made to look bad in this situation just like a QB looks awful when his line doesn't protect him. Right now the republican party is divided. Im not convinced anyone would've been able too whip the entire party into line. Too many quislings eager to capitulate to whatever the left wants just to maintain the status quo So in your opinion, he doesn't need to be replaced? Just trying to clarify. In your opinion, does Sec. Sabelius need to be replaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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