Iraq

[autigeremt 6,652]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/kurdish-soldiers-launch-ground-offensive-to-free-mosul-dam-1408291843

[Guest NC1406]

So are our "advisors" protected working without a status of forces agreement? Are we back in Iraq for humanitarian reasons or is it to set up a legitimate government this time? I am following the situation but I am not clear on our objective at the moment.

I expect that now they really need and want us there, it's a moot point.

We are not there to set up a "legitimate" government - which is non-sequitur at any rate. Apparently the Iraqi's are going to do that for themselves.

And I don't think you are following the situation (in my best Jerry Seinfeld imitation).

You expect it to be a moot point? I am sure our "advisors" on the ground know their risk. There is no status of forces agreement. Yet we have these troops at risk.

Using the fact that our government was not able to negotiate a status of forces agreement so we had to pull out is contradictory when we have troops on the ground advising right now. I have never watched jerry springer so thankfully I don't get your reference.

If we are not attempting to set up a new government that we think is legitimate (again) then why are we bombing terrorist that hold the dam? We completed the humanitarian efforts on the mountain. I still believe that we have no clear mission but we have troops at risk because they are handcuffed with BS rules of engagement.

[AUUSN 823]

The troops currently on the ground have what is similar to diplomatic protection. If they stay longer then the Iraqi parliment will need to approve some sort of SOFA. There are a number of countries we are stationed in where there are no SOFA in place.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

All boots on the ground aren't the same color.

[Guest NC1406]

The troops currently on the ground have what is similar to diplomatic protection. If they stay longer then the Iraqi parliment will need to approve some sort of SOFA. There are a number of countries we are stationed in where there are no SOFA in place.

What does this diplomatic protection cover? I really don't know but will be visiting one of my sons that is currently serving this weekend and will discuss further. In your opinion do we have troops in situations similar to Iraq that are not covered by a SOFA?

[AUUSN 823]

Essentially they have immunity similar to State Department personnel. No there are no other personnel in the same situation as those in Iraq.

[Guest NC1406]

Essentially they have immunity similar to State Department personnel. No there are no other personnel in the same situation as those in Iraq.

Thanks for the info. What did you do in the Navy and how long did you serve? Appreciate your service!

[homersapien 11,393]

So are our "advisors" protected working without a status of forces agreement? Are we back in Iraq for humanitarian reasons or is it to set up a legitimate government this time? I am following the situation but I am not clear on our objective at the moment.

I expect that now they really need and want us there, it's a moot point.

We are not there to set up a "legitimate" government - which is non-sequitur at any rate. Apparently the Iraqi's are going to do that for themselves.

And I don't think you are following the situation (in my best Jerry Seinfeld imitation).

You expect it to be a moot point? I am sure our "advisors" on the ground know their risk. There is no status of forces agreement. Yet we have these troops at risk.

Using the fact that our government was not able to negotiate a status of forces agreement so we had to pull out is contradictory when we have troops on the ground advising right now. I have never watched jerry springer so thankfully I don't get your reference.

If we are not attempting to set up a new government that we think is legitimate (again) then why are we bombing terrorist that hold the dam? We completed the humanitarian efforts on the mountain. I still believe that we have no clear mission but we have troops at risk because they are handcuffed with BS rules of engagement.

Good grief.

(And it was Seinfeld, not Springer :-\ )

[AUUSN 823]

Essentially they have immunity similar to State Department personnel. No there are no other personnel in the same situation as those in Iraq.

Thanks for the info. What did you do in the Navy and how long did you serve? Appreciate your service!

Thanks. Just shot you a PM.

[homersapien 11,393]

The troops currently on the ground have what is similar to diplomatic protection. If they stay longer then the Iraqi parliment will need to approve some sort of SOFA. There are a number of countries we are stationed in where there are no SOFA in place.

Thanks AUUSN, I didn't know that, but I figured it would be something along those lines.

[AUUSN 823]

The troops currently on the ground have what is similar to diplomatic protection. If they stay longer then the Iraqi parliment will need to approve some sort of SOFA. There are a number of countries we are stationed in where there are no SOFA in place.

Thanks AUUSN, I didn't know that, but I figured it would be something along those lines.

No problem. It's essentially the same type of agreement used when we go to a country for a large scale exercise, like Bright Star with Egypt.

[Guest NC1406]

So are our "advisors" protected working without a status of forces agreement? Are we back in Iraq for humanitarian reasons or is it to set up a legitimate government this time? I am following the situation but I am not clear on our objective at the moment.

I expect that now they really need and want us there, it's a moot point.

We are not there to set up a "legitimate" government - which is non-sequitur at any rate. Apparently the Iraqi's are going to do that for themselves.

And I don't think you are following the situation (in my best Jerry Seinfeld imitation).

You expect it to be a moot point? I am sure our "advisors" on the ground know their risk. There is no status of forces agreement. Yet we have these troops at risk.

Using the fact that our government was not able to negotiate a status of forces agreement so we had to pull out is contradictory when we have troops on the ground advising right now. I have never watched jerry springer so thankfully I don't get your reference.

If we are not attempting to set up a new government that we think is legitimate (again) then why are we bombing terrorist that hold the dam? We completed the humanitarian efforts on the mountain. I still believe that we have no clear mission but we have troops at risk because they are handcuffed with BS rules of engagement.

Good grief.

(And it was Seinfeld, not Springer :-\ )

No need for grief i misread the show you referenced. I actually watched Seinfeld but still don't get it, sorry.

[homersapien 11,393]

The troops currently on the ground have what is similar to diplomatic protection. If they stay longer then the Iraqi parliment will need to approve some sort of SOFA. There are a number of countries we are stationed in where there are no SOFA in place.

Thanks AUUSN, I didn't know that, but I figured it would be something along those lines.

No problem. It's essentially the same type of agreement used when we go to a country for a large scale exercise, like Bright Star with Egypt.

That's very interesting. I never thought about it before.

Anyway, back to the topic, having a legitimate Iraqi government to deal with is a HUGE change. Was it Clausewitz that said war is politics exerted by different means (paraphrase)?

Anyway this is a great illustration of that concept. Without political context, waging war is attacking a tar baby.

[autigeremt 6,652]

Statement from Pentagon Press Secretary Rear Admiral John Kirby

Over the past 72 hours, at the request of the Iraqi government, the U.S.

military used fighters, bombers, attack, and unmanned aircraft to conduct

35 strikes that eliminated ISIL positions in and around the Mosul Dam

complex. In all, we destroyed over 90 targets including a range of

vehicles, equipment, and fighting positions. Iraqi forces have cleared the

dam and are working to further expand their area of control. Secretary

Hagel remains extraordinarily proud of the men and women serving on land

and sea who conducted these operations. He knows they stand ready to

continue such missions as needed. Secretary Hagel also commends the way in

which Iraqi forces worked together in this operation. It reflects the

growing determination of Iraqis to fight back against ISIL.

[homersapien 11,393]

Statement from Pentagon Press Secretary Rear Admiral John Kirby

Over the past 72 hours, at the request of the Iraqi government, the U.S.

military used fighters, bombers, attack, and unmanned aircraft to conduct

35 strikes that eliminated ISIL positions in and around the Mosul Dam

complex. In all, we destroyed over 90 targets including a range of

vehicles, equipment, and fighting positions. Iraqi forces have cleared the

dam and are working to further expand their area of control. Secretary

Hagel remains extraordinarily proud of the men and women serving on land

and sea who conducted these operations. He knows they stand ready to

continue such missions as needed. Secretary Hagel also commends the way in

which Iraqi forces worked together in this operation. It reflects the

growing determination of Iraqis to fight back against ISIL.

Like I said.

[AURaptor 1,125]

How many of those targets were US hardware we left for the Iraqi army ?

[Tigermike 3,039]

How many of those targets were US hardware we left for the Iraqi army ?

Most likely a lot.

[AURaptor 1,125]

Better to turn them into smoking heaps of metal than let those animals use 'em. Dammit.

[AUUSN 823]

This group (ISIL) is definitely not a JV team. They have studied insurgency tactics and have it in full execution mode:

"In some areas under their control, the Islamic State is opening hospitals, building new roads, launching bus services, rehabilitating schools (at least for boys), and launching small-business programs designed to juice the local economies. In Syria, where bread is a core staple, the militants focus on managing local wheat mills and bakeries to ensure that supplies remain high enough to feed a population that was in some areas on the edge of starvation.

The group's focus on good governance, at least by militant standards, starts at the top. In his first public comments after conquering Mosul, the Islamic State's self-proclaimed caliph, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, called on "scientists, scholars, preachers, judges, doctors, engineers and people with military and administrative expertise" to help govern the land his group controls. Those weren't just words: Shortly after taking control of Mosul, Baghdadi transferred the Islamic State's hospital administrator for the Syrian city of Raqqa to Mosul to take that same job there, Kilcullen said.

In Raqqa, which has been under Islamic State control for months, traffic police remain on the streets and local citizens pay taxes to the militants, who in turn give them receipts stamped with the group's logo. A local goldsmith told the New York Times that the taxes are far cheaper than the bribes residents had to pay when Syrian strongman Bashar al-Assad was in control. "I feel like I am dealing with a respected state, not thugs," the goldsmith said.

The Islamic State also launched a "hearts-and-minds" campaign of sorts. In one of the more jarring examples, the group held a "fun day" in Mosul where the militants passed out soccer balls and held Quran memorization and recitation contests. The Islamic State, Kilcullen said, "is thinking like a state."

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/08/18/iraq_isis_terror_obama_us_intelligence_islamic_state

[Tigermike 3,039]

"I feel like I am dealing with a respected state, not thugs," the goldsmith said.

Winning the hearts and minds.

[homersapien 11,393]

They may be crazy, but they aren't stupid.

Wouldn't it be ironic for an Islamic state to out-compete the non-Islamic states simply based on providing a non-corrupt government?

[Tigermike 3,039]

They may be crazy, but they aren't stupid.

Wouldn't it be ironic for an Islamic state to out-compete the non-Islamic states simply based on providing a non-corrupt government.

The difference being the ISIL or whatever they are called now are doing this now but later the camel poop will be in the fan. For some reason I suspect they want to rule as harshly as the Taliban were doing in Afghanistan. In fact they have already shown how blood thirsty and savage they are. There is no room for moderates, women, Jews, Christians,,,,,,,,,,,,, well no room for anyone who is different from them.

What would be supremely ironic would be for them to rule the area like something they aren't. Civilized.

[autigeremt 6,652]

They may be crazy, but they aren't stupid.

Wouldn't it be ironic for an Islamic state to out-compete the non-Islamic states simply based on providing a non-corrupt government.

Non-corrupt? I guess their style of government is like birds singing on a spring morning for ya?

[homersapien 11,393]

They may be crazy, but they aren't stupid.

Wouldn't it be ironic for an Islamic state to out-compete the non-Islamic states simply based on providing a non-corrupt government.

Non-corrupt? I guess their style of government is like birds singing on a spring morning for ya?

I see you point, but I am referring to the constant petty shakedowns of average people.

These folks are clearly evil, but they are sophisticated enough to address the "hearts and minds" of the majority as someone else put it. It's sort of like the Nazis in the early 30's, putting people back to work and having the trains run on time.

[AuburnNTexas 7,154]

They may be crazy, but they aren't stupid.

Wouldn't it be ironic for an Islamic state to out-compete the non-Islamic states simply based on providing a non-corrupt government.

Non-corrupt? I guess their style of government is like birds singing on a spring morning for ya? ;)/>

I see you point, but I am referring to the constant petty shakedowns of average people.

These folks are clearly evil, but they are sophisticated enough to address the "hearts and minds" of the majority as someone else put it. It's sort of like the Nazis in the early 30's, putting people back to work and having the trains run on time.

Great analogy