Arkansas St. Has To Remove Cross From Helmets

[cptau 169]

Regarding Chette Williams and FCA:

Unless the FCA has changed since I was in school, it met separately from the athletic department and its meetings were voluntary--you actually had to go out of your way to attend their functions. As such, the courts recognize it as a voluntary extracurricular activity, like a Baptist Student Union, the Methodist Wesley Foundation, or even a chess club or intramural sports.

Chette's ministry is a little more complicated. I have no problem with his counseling services being available to students or athletes and/or holding worship services on the side, just as I have no problem with campus ministries of the aforementioned BSU or Wesley.

His more formal association with the team has always bothered me however. Even if the coaches promise there is no coercion, I can help but think a Jewish, Muslim, or atheist student-athlete might feel a bit intimidated or expect prejudicial treatment (even from peers) for not participating in coach-endorsed Christian activities/prayers.

Military Chaplains are attached to military units in the same way, except the government pays them as US military officers. Mostly likely the chaplain assigned to your unit is not going to be of the exact same faith. On a very large military base there would be several Chaplains and you could probably find one with similar beliefs.

[homersapien 11,379]

Regarding Chette Williams and FCA:

Unless the FCA has changed since I was in school, it met separately from the athletic department and its meetings were voluntary--you actually had to go out of your way to attend their functions. As such, the courts recognize it as a voluntary extracurricular activity, like a Baptist Student Union, the Methodist Wesley Foundation, or even a chess club or intramural sports.

Chette's ministry is a little more complicated. I have no problem with his counseling services being available to students or athletes and/or holding worship services on the side, just as I have no problem with campus ministries of the aforementioned BSU or Wesley.

His more formal association with the team has always bothered me however. Even if the coaches promise there is no coercion, I can help but think a Jewish, Muslim, or atheist student-athlete might feel a bit intimidated or expect prejudicial treatment (even from peers) for not participating in coach-endorsed Christian activities/prayers.

Military Chaplains are attached to military units in the same way, except the government pays them as US military officers. Mostly likely the chaplain assigned to your unit is not going to be of the exact same faith. On a very large military base there would be several Chaplains and you could probably find one with similar beliefs.

So does Chette function as a non-denominational "chaplain"?

[cptau 169]

So widely used religious symbols on a player's school uniform are not OK.

If the players tattoos the same religious symbol on their skin and it is visible, is that OK?

Or should the players be force to cover up while playing?

Many companies and the military force their employees to cover up all tattoos while on the job. So when we start paying the players we can tell them to cover the tattoos too.

One a similar matter.......................................

Just ask RG III. His shirt broke NFL rules about personal messages and there was no Nike swoosh on it.

I guess if the shirt had said "don't hit women" the NFL would have left him alone.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/09/16/report-rgiii-told-by-nfl-not-to-wear-know-jesus-know-peace-shirt-for-his-press-conference/

WASHINGTON (CBSDC) — Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III was reportedly told by an NFL uniform inspector not to wear his “Know Jesus, Know Peace” t-shirt before Sunday’s postgame press conference.

Michael Phillips, the Redskins reporter for the Richmond Times-Dispatch, posted on Twitter that Griffin was told he couldn’t wear the t-shirt because it wasn’t a Nike product.

“RGIII was wearing a t-shirt that said ‘Know Jesus, Know Peace.’ NFL Uniform Inspector Tony McGee (former Skins DE) approached Griffin,” Phillips tweeted. “McGee told Griffin he couldn’t wear the shirt because it wasn’t a Nike product. Made him turn it inside out for the press conference.”

[homersapien 11,379]

So widely used religious symbols on a player's school uniform are not OK.

If the players tattoos the same religious symbol on their skin and it is visible, is that OK?

Do you really not see the difference?

[RunInRed 16,411]

His more formal association with the team has always bothered me however. Even if the coaches promise there is no coercion, I can help but think a Jewish, Muslim, or atheist student-athlete might feel a bit intimidated or expect prejudicial treatment (even from peers) for not participating in coach-endorsed Christian activities/prayers.

Exactly.

[cptau 169]

So widely used religious symbols on a player's school uniform are not OK.

If the players tattoos the same religious symbol on their skin and it is visible, is that OK?

Do you really not see the difference?

What difference do you see?

[quietfan 233]

Regarding Chette Williams and FCA:

Unless the FCA has changed since I was in school, it met separately from the athletic department and its meetings were voluntary--you actually had to go out of your way to attend their functions. As such, the courts recognize it as a voluntary extracurricular activity, like a Baptist Student Union, the Methodist Wesley Foundation, or even a chess club or intramural sports.

Chette's ministry is a little more complicated. I have no problem with his counseling services being available to students or athletes and/or holding worship services on the side, just as I have no problem with campus ministries of the aforementioned BSU or Wesley.

His more formal association with the team has always bothered me however. Even if the coaches promise there is no coercion, I can help but think a Jewish, Muslim, or atheist student-athlete might feel a bit intimidated or expect prejudicial treatment (even from peers) for not participating in coach-endorsed Christian activities/prayers.

Military Chaplains are attached to military units in the same way, except the government pays them as US military officers. Mostly likely the chaplain assigned to your unit is not going to be of the exact same faith. On a very large military base there would be several Chaplains and you could probably find one with similar beliefs.

I understand that, and I view military chaplains as much the same as BSU or Wesley campus ministers--of great value to those who need/want them, but not to be forced upon anyone. I would object to a chaplain or an officer coming into the barracks, the gunnery range, or the showers and telling the men to "gather 'round for prayer" in the same way I object to a coach doing that in a locker room.

[cooltigger21 0]

I guess we gotta stop players from getting together at the end of games to pray. That might offend someone.

[AUDub 11,149]

I guess we gotta stop players from getting together at the end of games to pray. That might offend someone.

It's OK as long as the coaches are not leading the prayer. The players can do whatever they want.

[AUDub 11,149]

So widely used religious symbols on a player's school uniform are not OK.

If the players tattoos the same religious symbol on their skin and it is visible, is that OK?

Do you really not see the difference?

What difference do you see?

The player's skin is not public property, for one.

[quietfan 233]

So widely used religious symbols on a player's school uniform are not OK.

If the players tattoos the same religious symbol on their skin and it is visible, is that OK?

Do you really not see the difference?

What difference do you see?

Well, duh! To echo Homer...You really can't see any difference? The uniform represents the school, an agency of the state. The player's skin is his own, not representative of or an agency of the state.

[quietfan 233]

http://washington.cb...ess-conference/

WASHINGTON (CBSDC) — Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III was reportedly told by an NFL uniform inspector not to wear his “Know Jesus, Know Peace” t-shirt before Sunday’s postgame press conference.

Michael Phillips, the Redskins reporter for the Richmond Times-Dispatch, posted on Twitter that Griffin was told he couldn’t wear the t-shirt because it wasn’t a Nike product.

“RGIII was wearing a t-shirt that said ‘Know Jesus, Know Peace.’ NFL Uniform Inspector Tony McGee (former Skins DE) approached Griffin,” Phillips tweeted. “McGee told Griffin he couldn’t wear the shirt because it wasn’t a Nike product. Made him turn it inside out for the press conference.”

Based on this, it sounds like the shirt was only a problem as far as sponsorships and contracts. If the NFL has a contract with Nike and the television network, and that contract says only Nike apparel will appear on NFL broadcasts, then turning it inside out may well have been the only way to hide the non-Nike brand of the shirt. I see no reason to assume the decision had anything to do with the religious message on the shirt .

[homersapien 11,379]

So widely used religious symbols on a player's school uniform are not OK.

If the players tattoos the same religious symbol on their skin and it is visible, is that OK?

Do you really not see the difference?

What difference do you see?

I asked first. You answer me then I will answer you.

[cptau 169]

http://washington.cb...ess-conference/

WASHINGTON (CBSDC) — Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III was reportedly told by an NFL uniform inspector not to wear his “Know Jesus, Know Peace” t-shirt before Sunday’s postgame press conference.

Michael Phillips, the Redskins reporter for the Richmond Times-Dispatch, posted on Twitter that Griffin was told he couldn’t wear the t-shirt because it wasn’t a Nike product.

“RGIII was wearing a t-shirt that said ‘Know Jesus, Know Peace.’ NFL Uniform Inspector Tony McGee (former Skins DE) approached Griffin,” Phillips tweeted. “McGee told Griffin he couldn’t wear the shirt because it wasn’t a Nike product. Made him turn it inside out for the press conference.”

Based on this, it sounds like the shirt was only a problem as far as sponsorships and contracts. If the NFL has a contract with Nike and the television network, and that contract says only Nike apparel will appear on NFL broadcasts, then turning it inside out may well have been the only way to hide the non-Nike brand of the shirt. I see no reason to assume the decision had anything to do with the religious message on the shirt .

The NFL has a policy on no messages on clothing too.

[cptau 169]

So widely used religious symbols on a player's school uniform are not OK.

If the players tattoos the same religious symbol on their skin and it is visible, is that OK?

Do you really not see the difference?

What difference do you see?

I asked first. You answer me then I will answer you.

I explained the difference.

[homersapien 11,379]

So widely used religious symbols on a player's school uniform are not OK.

If the players tattoos the same religious symbol on their skin and it is visible, is that OK?

Do you really not see the difference?

What difference do you see?

I asked first. You answer me then I will answer you.

I explained the difference.

OK...........Guess I missed it.

[TitanTiger 20,483]

This about sums it up.

[AUDub 11,149]

I might agree if I could see it, Titan. I apparently don't have permission.

[cooltigger21 0]

It wasn't long ago that Vanderbilt among others told Christian organizations they couldn't exclude people who didn't share their faith from leadership positions. None of them excluded people who were not their faith from being members just from leadership. For refusing to give in to the demands they were kicked off of campus.

[AUDub 11,149]

It wasn't long ago that Vanderbilt among others told Christian organizations they couldn't exclude people who didn't share their faith from leadership positions. In new of them excluded people who were not their faith from being members just from leadership. For refusing to give in to the demands they were kicked off of campus.

I have not heard about this. Do you have a link?

[cooltigger21 0]

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1416561

[AUDub 11,149]

Thank you. I'm surprised you read HuffPo, CT.

[cptau 169]

It wasn't long ago that Vanderbilt among others told Christian organizations they couldn't exclude people who didn't share their faith from leadership positions. In new of them excluded people who were not their faith from being members just from leadership. For refusing to give in to the demands they were kicked off of campus.

I have not heard about this. Do you have a link?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2012-04-27/christian-groups-vanderbilt-policy/54581770/1

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/vanderbilt-tells-group-leaders-can%E2%80%99t-be-followers-of-christ.html

[cooltigger21 0]

Thank you. I'm surprised you read HuffPo, CT. ;)/>

I do read some from there and a few others to keep up with the other side.

[quietfan 233]

It wasn't long ago that Vanderbilt among others told Christian organizations they couldn't exclude people who didn't share their faith from leadership positions. None of them excluded people who were not their faith from being members just from leadership. For refusing to give in to the demands they were kicked off of campus.

Vanderbilt is a private school, not an extension of the state. Private schools have much greater leeway in setting their own rules and aren't really relevant to this conversation.